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Lorien

PLEASE keep Claim in PVE

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Just make it 1 per company in PVE but keep it. It's also a way to control who lives next to you and avoid greifers. Some big company only greif small. I see some already placing tcth foundations everywhere to prevent resources spawn and kill our game and they will have the mean to auto repair them.

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They just made all the regions lawless..

It'll again be a race to spam flags in PvP and spam foundations in PvE.

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I call it right now, the Patch will be released with some final changes at the patchnotes which noone could read before including: "we fixed structure behaviour not blocking respawns and building privileges" but they will only do it for foundations and pillars and will forget small gates ^^

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I agree.

The new claim system sounds promising with it's incentive in large companies working with small ones, rather than cutting them off completely or pressuring them to join them so they can have a place to build. Which was the major issue. Large companies consistently spanning their 'rule' over every corner of the map, and maintaining them with a single bed under each flag. By limiting the potential, and adding the need for consistent upkeep over their lands really demands a lot more effort in holding them.

The idea that pve is going to be left open to anyone to build on doesn't put me at ease. Because as OP has mentioned, it only really inspires random people to come along and screw up your next four days. (If the decay is anything like lawless. 4 days I think was the demolish deadline.) I get that trolls won't be so obligated to come out and repair the pillars and foundations they've laid out, unless they really get a rise out of you or something. But it's still an inconvenience that I really would rather not deal with.

At least with the claim system you plan to implement, there is some control over a situation like that. If, say, Lotus owns an island and someone decides they want to put down pillars to "save the land" or to simply be an ass- People living on the island can tell them, and they can choose to fix the issue on their island. It makes them responsible. And if they don't want to deal with the issue, then they might lose support from the people of their island. It inspires community when previously there was only every-land-lubber-for-themselves sort of vibe in almost every case. 

Now, I don't know if your system can be tweaked in the way to basically allow it to exist in pve, just turn off the 'vulnerability time' requirement or not, but I think it would work fine in pve. 

TLDR:

  • New claim system for pve so we have some order.
  • The incentives for large companies, or any companies who manage to claim land, to allow people to live among them.
  • Gives people who own islands a responsibility to actually rule the land they claim, and inspires actual community.
  • Pillar spam makes me uncomfortable.
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Posted (edited)

I personally thought they should turn all servers as Lawless in PVE (because PVE means players don't wanna be at war with other players, for example for land disputes).

And to keep all safe from foundation spam, they just could LIMIT RADIUS OF BUILDING ALLOWED. You place your first (or for example first 5) foundation in island and then you able to build something just around it.

Circle must be big enough, so you could create your base, tames paddock and lighthouse... I wish there would be small (wooden?) version of lighthouse as well right now it's 18x18...  it's almost as big as my main section of houses : )) But yet small enough so no one could own half island. Paddock is also big so you can keep there Elephant, Rhino, some small ones. My one now is 14x18 and sometimes it's difficult to get out : ))

Well I guess this size:

IFxHHvg.jpg

Edited by George Catcher
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I've never seen a company as tone deaf as Grapeshot. You literally have hundreds of suggestions on the forums and reddit - some good, some bad, some feasible, some impossible...and this is what you give us?

You guys manage to do literally the exact opposite of what the majority of your player base wants, damn near every time.

People LIKED the claim system due to it stopping the griefing that was so prevalent in Ark. What they didn't like was that a couple companies could take over the whole map and not leave any room for anyone. Instead of limiting PVE claims to a reasonable number,  like you are in PVP, even 10-20 per company, you get rid of the PVE claim system entirely, and leave everyone open to foundation/pillar spam griefing, resource blocking, ship blocking, etc - with the added kick in the teeth that its not Ark - if there are douchebags who pillar/foundation the most desirable areas to stop anyone from having them, you can't just find another server with a lower assclown ration.

You're even adding over 200 new islands for people to pillar and spam to unusableness. You have a pissed off playerbase, with a lot of time on their hands. Do you really think that a portion of them aren't going to make life as miserable as possible for anyone who attempts to keep playing?  If you would re-think this to something like limit claims to 10 per company, 20 per company with at least 25 members, and 50 per company with 50+ members, as well as opening the 200 new islands, and even open lawless to be claimable, that would open more than enough land for anyone currently playing, and anyone who wants to play in the future.

People didn't want to be tenants because they had 0 protections against landlords pulling their build rights, which killed that dead in the water. Instead of fixing it so that people had a reason to be tenants, with basic protections, it turned into 'Nope, burn it all down..."

People wanted to be able to trade easily and efficiently, for all kinds of goods, taking all kinds of payments. They wanted reasons to go visit other people's lands, they wanted to give people a reason to visit their land, and reasons to go to far off lands, acquire goods, and easily re-sell them to their neighbors for profit. Nope, you get vendors in freeport, for gold only.

People didn't want the wipe, due to discovery points, etc. Bases, resources, blueprints, etc...yeah, they suck to get and rebuild. Instead of just a land and item wipe, Nope, clean slate. - this isn't as bad as the others, but, still going to cost more players than just the land/item wipe would have.

This has been a consistent theme, all the way back to the ship weight griefing. People wanted their ships to be safe when they logged off, and suggested that if the ship was at anchor, it wouldn't take overweight damage. Nope, we get magic fly traps.

Yeah, I know, these are all PVE concerns, because thats mainly where I play, but I know that the PVP side is just as pissed about having to pencil wars in their date book, among other things.

 

The people who compared the games trajectory to No Mans Sky, or Rust, saying that "Oh, Grapeshot said they're listening to the players now. They're going to turn it around.", aren't doing that so much any more. I'm kinda scared to see what the Steam review are going to look like going forward.  When we asked you to listen to the players, we didn't mean to listen to what we were saying, and decide to implement the opposite, or the most half-ass way of what we were asking for.

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10 hours ago, Mduna said:

I agree.

The new claim system sounds promising with it's incentive in large companies working with small ones, rather than cutting them off completely or pressuring them to join them so they can have a place to build. Which was the major issue. Large companies consistently spanning their 'rule' over every corner of the map, and maintaining them with a single bed under each flag. By limiting the potential, and adding the need for consistent upkeep over their lands really demands a lot more effort in holding them.

The idea that pve is going to be left open to anyone to build on doesn't put me at ease. Because as OP has mentioned, it only really inspires random people to come along and screw up your next four days. (If the decay is anything like lawless. 4 days I think was the demolish deadline.) I get that trolls won't be so obligated to come out and repair the pillars and foundations they've laid out, unless they really get a rise out of you or something. But it's still an inconvenience that I really would rather not deal with.

At least with the claim system you plan to implement, there is some control over a situation like that. If, say, Lotus owns an island and someone decides they want to put down pillars to "save the land" or to simply be an ass- People living on the island can tell them, and they can choose to fix the issue on their island. It makes them responsible. And if they don't want to deal with the issue, then they might lose support from the people of their island. It inspires community when previously there was only every-land-lubber-for-themselves sort of vibe in almost every case. 

Now, I don't know if your system can be tweaked in the way to basically allow it to exist in pve, just turn off the 'vulnerability time' requirement or not, but I think it would work fine in pve. 

TLDR:

  • New claim system for pve so we have some order.
  • The incentives for large companies, or any companies who manage to claim land, to allow people to live among them.
  • Gives people who own islands a responsibility to actually rule the land they claim, and inspires actual community.
  • Pillar spam makes me uncomfortable.

Yeah basically this, would just need a lower Flag Cap per company since it's PVE and land can't be taken down by fight. 1 might be extreme like I suggested but also not too bad, I think one island for a company is enough bases don't need to be huge but I know some people like to have settlement acorss the world so could be something like 3 too.

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Now maybe there are more options, but I see three off the top of my head all with drawbacks.

1. Keep claim system in PVE, but limit claims per person/company. 

2. Go with the lawless system but limit structure count per person/company

3. A lawless system like you are planning, but with limits per island where structures can be placed. Effectively creating claim sites to prevent structure spam griefing, and resource griefing.

Personally I'd be ok with any of the 3. But you would have to give us more at sea content. Which should have been done anyway prior to release and would have avoided a ton of hate mail. You have, and continue to have way to much of the focus on land for a sea fairing pirate game. Part of the problem that comes from a game being created from a mod that was made by same developers..

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Posted (edited)

I like the flag system , it give me a land where i can build freely without having to worry about a troll put a pillar next to me when i offline .

The upcoming changes just gonna force me to grind even more to maintain my base , what if i build my house like a fort ? More grinding to keep that standing in 4 days and i can't have a holiday because i need to protect the base from decay timer . More grinds = not fun .

What they should have done is 1 flag per person , the area affect by the flag reduce depend on how many people in the company , you can only build inside that zone , that way a person can have a place to build without decay timer while other can't hog the entire island for themselves .

 

Edited by kampfer91

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I'd like to see PvP use the settlement system but you can take over other people's islands in a way similar to port royal or partician 4. Would create a nice system.

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<sarcasm mode on>

One side effect of removing the claim flags is people will start building bases with walls around them like in ARK. 

A wall around your base like in ARK served two purposes: 1) It kept your tames in and the wild creatures out, 2) It created a no build zone for your base.

At least less people will be losing tames. With a wall around the base, it should keep the cobras out.

<sarcasm mode off>

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Well from my experience EVERYTHING was claimed when i joined game on pve official EU server. I agree with them...NO Claim! On lawless grids all around boxes and shipyards. 2 weeks 2 of us were searching for small shipyard spot. I guess all or most of you that now complain here on forum are guys with minimum a few islands fully claim. Go cry even more!

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And thinking about it, actually, there could be some use to the vulnerability status in pve! Opportunity to design things around it, rather than just removing the aspect entirely. 

My company leader actually had a lot of fun designing a cannon defense tower. Now the idea was actually sprung from the potential griefer, coming along to bring ships of the damned into our harbor and destroying our ships so they could scuttle them after. It became fairly useless after the change was implimented to make boats and structures resilent to that sort of activity.

However! Could it be possible to design random attacks on settlements by monsters, armies of the damned, or what have you during these 'scheduled vulnerability' times the players set? That, instead of players coming to attack your base or island, perhaps a hydra comes out of the depths to attack and eat people on islands? This could further the incentive to socialize and band together as pathfinders on an island, rather than "I just wanna build a massive base and play by myself." It could also give smaller companies who want to own an island a reason to really think it over before actually claiming it. Not only for a resource demand, but also for the potential of it being attacked by a huge monster and if you're only 1 or 3 people, might not be able to defend it on your own.

Just an idea.

TL;DR
 

  • Opportunity to utilize 'vulnerability timer' in PVE by designing NPC forces that attack islands as a randomized event possibility.
  • Gives players more incentive to band together, rather than remain reclusive.
  • Also gives incentive for smaller companies and solo players to live on an already owned island, rather than own the island themselves.
  • Randomized island attacks would also make the world feel more real and immersive.
  • If an island is under attack, players simply on the island for maps or exploring could help in it's defense for better loot, and greater experience.
  • Timer essentially would give owners of the island a chance to be online for potential attacks.
  • Reward based on the rank of the attack, similarly to the rank of the island. Rank 3 islands (assumingly bigger) have greater chance to be attacked by larger mobs, like a Hydra. Whereas rank 1 islands would have greater chance of only being attacked by smaller ones. Maybe 3 waves of army of the damned or something.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Beechies said:

Well from my experience EVERYTHING was claimed when i joined game on pve official EU server. I agree with them...NO Claim! On lawless grids all around boxes and shipyards. 2 weeks 2 of us were searching for small shipyard spot. I guess all or most of you that now complain here on forum are guys with minimum a few islands fully claim. Go cry even more!

I understand what you're trying to say I felt like that when I first looked for land but I eventually got some. The Real problem is not claiming land in the first place. It always was the fact claiming flag was not limited. So the greedy people got all they could to no avail. If it's limited it's a good system to avoid greifing. Imagine if every company is only allowed 1 flag and there's 225 Region with adverage 3 island. That now lets remove the 10 regions with power stones and the kraken 215. Besides that we have to remove Freeports and lawless regions Not sure about these number but let be safe and say they come up 30 total that leaves 175 regions with 3 island adverage. that means with a 1 flag limit per co. 525 Co. could own an island. That's a lot of company and I'm not sure there is currently that much in game.

Edited by Lorien

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Beechies said:

Well from my experience EVERYTHING was claimed when i joined game on pve official EU server. I agree with them...NO Claim! On lawless grids all around boxes and shipyards. 2 weeks 2 of us were searching for small shipyard spot. I guess all or most of you that now complain here on forum are guys with minimum a few islands fully claim. Go cry even more!

That because currently one can plant unlimited flag , hence a person can claim the whole island .  Also , you joined the server later than everyone else so expecting land already have owner .

But people still need a secured land to build without having to deal with decay timer and troll , so people suggest 1 flag only per person . Unfortunately they choose worse solution and this will open up more problems .

Edited by kampfer91

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Beechies said:

Well from my experience EVERYTHING was claimed when i joined game on pve official EU server. I agree with them...NO Claim! On lawless grids all around boxes and shipyards. 2 weeks 2 of us were searching for small shipyard spot. I guess all or most of you that now complain here on forum are guys with minimum a few islands fully claim. Go cry even more!

I managed to get land, but not without rigorous effort. We stole land from someone who did own an entire island and then some; And we got shamed for it, if you can believe it. I had a rather lengthy conversation with one of NA PVE's top company leaders, who essentially thought I was rude because I didn't want to join his larger company to obtain land, or do anything in the game for that matter. It was asinine, because all we wanted was a spot to build and be. Before that, me and mine spent weeks in F12 (lawless), on a fairly large island. But it wasn't long before it slowly became unbearable.

There's no order. People build walls around metal resource nodes, block each other in with shipyards, lay down foundations all over the place because they want to 'save the spot' for themselves or whoever else.  It literally is, every man for themselves. There isn't a sense of community, because no one is willing to stick their necks out for the off-chance someone else won't cooperate because it's a game and there's nothing you can do about it. 

But, on the same coin, I understand where you're coming from. All those things are preferable to nothing at all, and I get that. But it's really not ideal, and sort of a shame that they put in all this work to 'fix' claim and it sounds awesome but PVE won't get to at least try it. It will just be lawless everywhere.

Edit: Forgot to note that the land I did own was about 6 flags.

Also forgot to mention that we had one case where someone had laid foundations down all over the island with a sign that read. "10k gold for sale." Which basically meant, they were ransoming space for people who just joined the game to be able to even build a small hovel for protection, and build a ship to leave. Just because they could, and there was nothing anyone could do about it.

Edited by Mduna

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4 hours ago, Beechies said:

Well from my experience EVERYTHING was claimed when i joined game on pve official EU server. I agree with them...NO Claim! On lawless grids all around boxes and shipyards. 2 weeks 2 of us were searching for small shipyard spot. I guess all or most of you that now complain here on forum are guys with minimum a few islands fully claim. Go cry even more!

Loudly complaining, spent 1 week sailing on raft looking for claim, settle on lawless south desert, found a big empty island in lawless tundra relocated there and never gave another damn about claims

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4 hours ago, Beechies said:

Well from my experience EVERYTHING was claimed when i joined game on pve official EU server. I agree with them...NO Claim! On lawless grids all around boxes and shipyards. 2 weeks 2 of us were searching for small shipyard spot. I guess all or most of you that now complain here on forum are guys with minimum a few islands fully claim. Go cry even more!

form your experience the claim system didnt work , from everyone else who had land the claim system did work it just needed a cap on the amount of flags that could be placed , which is what the community asked for and we got this out dated nothing new ark system .....

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i hated the claim system.  lost one claim because i was gone more than 6 hours.  Found another very small spot to claim, lost it the same way. 

A fix to all of this would be to give us our own  territory that only our company could zone into.  I would pay a monthly fee for that privilege.  I am a hermit at heart but i suck at it.  my company has a dozen players.  most of them only play a few hours each week.  we would be no competition for any large company wanting to take our territory.

 

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I'm going to wait and see how their new system works, (or doesn't), before I make any judgement. But pretty much any system they do is gonna have it's pros and cons. 

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I definitely agree that the PvE servers should still have a claim system, with the new, much lower caps, before you'd be able to build everything, the other alternative is people running around and spamming foundations to block anyone else from setting their own things there.

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