Declining population

[wildbill 142]

1 minute ago, Pappy Green said:

Does ignore user not do that?

Is that just me ignoring them, or is there an option to set it so I don't read the post.

I'm actually interested in this thread, but the amount of irrational hatred for a company I can do without.

I got plenty of that reading the ARK forums, got sick of it, and it has moved to here, day one.

Edited January 11, 2019 by wildbill

[Pappy Green 71]

Just now, wildbill said:

Is that just me ignoring them, or is there an option to set it so I don't read the post.

I'm actually interested in this thread, but the amount of irrational hatred for a company I can do without.

Hover over user on left, there's an option.

[Realist 504]

2 minutes ago, wildbill said:

Is that just me ignoring them, or is there an option to set it so I don't read the post.

I'm actually interested in this thread, but the amount of irrational hatred for a company I can do without.

I got plenty of that reading the ARK forums, got sick of it, and it has moved to here, day one.

Why would they make an ignore button do you still had to ignore them.

yes it blocks the posts 

[wildbill 142]

6 minutes ago, Pappy Green said:

Hover over user on left, there's an option.

Cool, thanks. Any further posts by me here will be on topic. Sorry for the off topic posts.

Would be interesting to see why people are taking a break from the game. I think people have posted some very good possible explanations. The one I like best is that the recent change to make foundations block resources is game killing to areas that are over-populated. I think that is mainly in the lawless zones, where claim flags are not allowed and there is no way to protect an area from too many people dropping foundations and blocking all the spawns.

One possible, but kind of cruel way to fix it would be to increase the decay on buildings not on claimed land. This would make it near impossible to live on the lawless zones, solving the resource blocking problem. 

I think the game does need resource blocking, otherwise if you built a fenced in area, you would have trees and stuff growing in it, which most people don't want, although the blocking radius could probably be reduced.

[Hodo 147]

4 hours ago, Pappy Green said:

I am basing my opinion on the available facts. I am not telling Grapeshot how to run their business. I don't expect them to listen to me, and as you said, why should they. But as someone who has interest in this project I am perfectly within my rights to wonder about the long term feasibility of the project. Servers cost money, salaries cost money, office space, yadda yadda. It is quite easy to burn through millions of dollars. For instance, 15*15*4 high bandwidth servers, how much do you think that costs? I'd guess in the neighborhood of $100k a month, that's $1.2M a year just for the server hosting.

Ok what facts do you actually have?  Steam charts?  Which are not exact, not by a day in sight.   Not every player who plays this game is playing through Steam.  Then the cost of the servers, you are guessing.  There are a lot of factors in the cost of the server, they could have a standing contract, which would reduce the cost, or they could be part owners in the servers, or complete owners.   You dont know what the situation is.   That is my point.   

I can talk a lot about how this game company is doing everything wrong but I dont know to be honest, all it is, is assumptions.  And assumptions well you know the saying.

 

It is no better than all of these fly-by-night game reviewers who show up with the latest hate review on the latest game, in hopes of making a quick few hundred subs for their weak assed channel.   

[Pappy Green 71]

11 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Ok what facts do you actually have?  Steam charts?  Which are not exact, not by a day in sight.   Not every player who plays this game is playing through Steam.  Then the cost of the servers, you are guessing.  There are a lot of factors in the cost of the server, they could have a standing contract, which would reduce the cost, or they could be part owners in the servers, or complete owners.   You dont know what the situation is.   That is my point.   

I can talk a lot about how this game company is doing everything wrong but I dont know to be honest, all it is, is assumptions.  And assumptions well you know the saying.

 

It is no better than all of these fly-by-night game reviewers who show up with the latest hate review on the latest game, in hopes of making a quick few hundred subs for their weak assed channel.   

Gotcha, because you want to keep your head in the sand (well you know what I'm saying), I'm not allowed to reasonably consider the possibilities.

[Hodo 147]

1 minute ago, Pappy Green said:

Gotcha, because you want to keep your head in the sand (well you know what I'm saying), I'm not allowed to reasonably consider the possibilities.

No need to get defensive.  I am just stating my opinion on your opinion.  

Fact is neither one of us are in a position to make any speculation on the current or perceived future of this game or the company behind it.   So there is no need to add to the negativity with more baseless negativity.  

 

[Pappy Green 71]

1 minute ago, Hodo said:

No need to get defensive.  I am just stating my opinion on your opinion.  

Fact is neither one of us are in a position to make any speculation on the current or perceived future of this game or the company behind it.   So there is no need to add to the negativity with more baseless negativity.  

 

Ahh the old, sit down and shut up argument. Nice one.

[Hodo 147]

1 minute ago, Pappy Green said:

Ahh the old, sit down and shut up argument. Nice one.

If that is what you want to imply out of that, sure.  

[Sulfurblade 194]

So I just would like to muse a little on this topic!

 

Its become nearly a meme these days that someone takes a steam chart and attempts to use it as a reference in support of there claim that the game is dieing.

Infact these days every game is dying, heck even Kingdom Come:Deliverance was pointed out as losing 95% of its playerbase after it released?!?  Which is a rather strange thing to point out in a SINGLE PLAYER RPG....  

 

But I digress.

 

The emotional part of me that hasn't been happy with the direction of the game wants to side with the conclusion here and help support the narrative that the game is dying because at least from my point of view it is, because if it doesn't appeal to me it how much it appeals to others is not of much concern to my self centered outlook on the world.

No I do agree this game is going in the wrong direction I think it is catering to some of the worst parts of the gaming community.  The Lack of action taken to free people locked up in cages inside of a video game or the fact the game mechanic exists, is a head scratch'er!   Worse yet is the blind eye to hate speech, hate icons, racism and the overall general acceptance of cheating, implied bye lack of action.

 

But again I digress.

 

Ultimately I don't know how big of a client base the Ark / Rust crowd is!  After all at the end of a day every video game is a business venture.  And perhaps sticking with your established crowd is the smart move!  Politician's tend to cater to there base why shouldn't a game developer???

 

But the last musing I have is the developers themselves may in fact be making there perfect game, they may in fact want a game just like this!  So who am I to know what there visions are the only thing I truly know is the game certainly isn't going in a direction I would call right!!!

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

7 hours ago, Vaenix said:

100% of the problems in an EA game can boil down to EA as their excuse. 

100% not true.  Putting SotD in the game is not an EA excuse.  Why not actual Pirate ships?  Why?  because coding the AI to sail a ship realistically is much harder than creating a ship that does not have to use a broadside attack, and can sail against the wind just as fast as it sails with it.  EA is not an excuse for having so many of them attack anything that moved, just to do a soft wipe.  EA is not an excuse for poorly thought predators, especially Alphas, that make taking your tames into the wild, a fool's errand.  EA is not an excuse for nerfing bows before fixing shitty hit boxes.  EA is not an excuse poorly thought out mechanics, such as people having the ability to overweight, or over-crewing your ship, on PvE.  EA is not to blame for making tames part of your crew, instead of just counting against your ship's weight.  EA is not an excuse for making fiber only grow in small areas, when it is just as much a requirement as wood, stone, etc....

Calling things out is an appropriate thing to do.  Those who whine that it is EA when people do call them out, are idiots, or fanboys, who can't stand the thought of the game being rightfully criticized.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

7 hours ago, Vaenix said:

Not everyone you disagree with is a fan boy.  I'm not sure why you keep on about that or if you honestly think it discredits anyone by doing so but it is getting old quick.  We are at 3 weeks since the game released in an early access alpha-beta state.  There are definitely issues that need to be addressed, but the game population not being insane isn't actually a huge problem.  It will fluctuate and there will be bugs that break the game and drive many people away.  We simply do not have enough information to go off of to make the call that this game is dying.  To be honest, the only thing I can think that you are trying to accomplish here by acting like this in 2 different forum posts, is to try to scare people and drive them away.

And not everyone who criticizes the game is just a hater.  In fact, at this stage, the majority of the criticism is justified.  You seem to think that posting that info is to just scare people away.  I disagree.  I think those who do this, are trying to raise the alarm to say, "Hey, stop what you are doing...people aren't buying it."   This is justified.  For instance, the Alpha animals need to go bye bye.  This is a part of ARK that did not need to be brought here.  If they want to keep them, they need to get rid of the ARK way of thinking on Alphas.  In ARK, your tames were far more powerful than the wild dinos.  Not here.  So this means Alphas also need to be rethought.  Not slightly tweaked.  And this is what people are trying to say when they post the numbers.  They are trying to say, stop being stubborn, and recognize when something is a bad idea.  Stop trying to tweak it, and dump it, or overhaul it, or make huge changes...not small tweaks.

I know a lot of people who have left because of the Alphas, and yet these boneheaded Devs seem to be too stubborn to admit that they need to go.

[Vaenix 131]

1 hour ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

100% not true.  Putting SotD in the game is not an EA excuse.  Why not actual Pirate ships?  Why?  because coding the AI to sail a ship realistically is much harder than creating a ship that does not have to use a broadside attack, and can sail against the wind just as fast as it sails with it.  EA is not an excuse for having so many of them attack anything that moved, just to do a soft wipe.  EA is not an excuse for poorly thought predators, especially Alphas, that make taking your tames into the wild, a fool's errand.  EA is not an excuse for nerfing bows before fixing shitty hit boxes.  EA is not an excuse poorly thought out mechanics, such as people having the ability to overweight, or over-crewing your ship, on PvE.  EA is not to blame for making tames part of your crew, instead of just counting against your ship's weight.  EA is not an excuse for making fiber only grow in small areas, when it is just as much a requirement as wood, stone, etc....

Calling things out is an appropriate thing to do.  Those who whine that it is EA when people do call them out, are idiots, or fanboys, who can't stand the thought of the game being rightfully criticized.

Putting the SotD in the game was a design decision, just because you do not like it does not mean it is a problem.  That's like saying not being immortal in the game is a problem cuz you want it easy.  Like I said, you want to name call people because you can't come up with a valid argument.  This is EA Early Access Alpha, get the fuck over wanting a perfect game to be released at half price and be in development.

[Muffinman 13]

11 hours ago, Hodo said:

No offense if you are dying constantly then you are doing something wrong at this point.   Is it players that are killing you?  Is it animals?  Is it the environment?  Or are you just starving to death every hour?

I am not scared, it is just pointless speculation.  Without any of the facts, you are basing your information off of hearsay.  Would YOU as a small business person, ever consider running your financial projections on pure speculation?

3 of us deal with 4 to 5 wolves every 1-3 minutes. They hit like a truck, killing us within 2-3 hits. We have fur armor to survive the cold. I tried plate but, it made very little improvement. Allowing the massive horde of wolves to kill us in 3-4 hits.

We also have a number of unbalanced issues with starvation. Being in the cold I have 60 Fortitude and still freeze. This causes hunger every 20 minutes +/- a minute. Yet the Vitamins don't drain so I overdose on vitamin levels. Please do tell, what am I doing wrong here?

Taming is just... what the fuck? Can't feed the animal because I get eaten, then lose all the taming proficiency. Waste materials and time doing exactly what others who have tames. 

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

43 minutes ago, Vaenix said:

Putting the SotD in the game was a design decision, just because you do not like it does not mean it is a problem.  That's like saying not being immortal in the game is a problem cuz you want it easy.  Like I said, you want to name call people because you can't come up with a valid argument.  This is EA Early Access Alpha, get the fuck over wanting a perfect game to be released at half price and be in development.

Hey Captain Obvious, thanks for making my point, numbnuts.  My point was that you can't blame everything on EA.  The SotD is lazy programming.  Instead of making AI with sailing ships, which would require the Devs to actually code AI....Artificial Intelligence...with actual intelligence, to allows for a nemesis that sails in a manner that makes sense, they took the lazy route and instead made an idiotic enemy that does not use sailing ships, while all the players do.  Here's a clue...the majority of people don't like that, and most of the people I know who quit the game, did so because of the Alphas, and the SotD.  Not what they want in this game.  When people criticize these things, it has nothing to do with EA.

You also avoided the other things on the list.  People buying this game weren't looking for a knock of Big Game Hunter, but that's what we got.

A lot of the criticism of the game is criticism of the choices the Devs have made.  That has nothing to do with EA.

[Muffinman 13]

18 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Hey Captain Obvious, thanks for making my point, numbnuts.  My point was that you can't blame everything on EA.  The SotD is lazy programming.  Instead of making AI with sailing ships, which would require the Devs to actually code AI....Artificial Intelligence...with actual intelligence, to allows for a nemesis that sails in a manner that makes sense, they took the lazy route and instead made an idiotic enemy that does not use sailing ships, while all the players do.  Here's a clue...the majority of people don't like that, and most of the people I know who quit the game, did so because of the Alphas, and the SotD.  Not what they want in this game.  When people criticize these things, it has nothing to do with EA.

You also avoided the other things on the list.  People buying this game weren't looking for a knock of Big Game Hunter, but that's what we got.

A lot of the criticism of the game is criticism of the choices the Devs have made.  That has nothing to do with EA.

Yeah I agree. The SotD feel out of place. Regular npc pirates that have to deal with sailing problems like everyone else would be great. Otherwise it's a terrible solution to challenge players at sea. As well spamming them to swarm a ship to the depths is also a cheap challenge. Anyone can zerg as a challenge. Making them rare enemies worth a damn would be the ideal challenge. To find one and want to go after it.

[rodarin 17]

People can talk about numbers and stream charts and expected decline rates all they want. Bottomline is this game was received horribly for an MMO. I dont remember any MMO that released worldwide with these kinds of numbers (low) granted its an EA but in this day and age that really doesnt matter. But Atlas is also a Steam exclusive meaning there is no wiggle room you MUST log in through Steam to play it. The only wiggle room is guessing how many are playing on official and how many are on private servers.

 

As for making a laundry list of things people dont like that they think 'ruined' the game (causing people to leave) probably all valid in some form or another. 

 

If you have a group of people to play with and do things at a set pace then I am sure it is a fun game. But on the official servers where its cut throat that isnt an option so its like a job. Which for some is no problem. but for most its not possible.

But its the whole genre itself that is misguided and badly implemented. "Sand Box' used to be this magical catch all that people thought meant the best game ever. These companies over the past 5-6 years have destroyed that idea with their laziness.

 

Atlas could have literally been made in a basement by a couple guys with some time and some money. Once the mod kit releases you will see what these guys can do with it. There will be special maps with special (anything unreal engine allows) and the modded stuff will be way better than what the official game has. Until they start cherry picking the best mods and implementing that stuff on the official servers like they did with ARK.

 

Hopefully some people come up with at least some 15x15 maps or even full size maps that can accommodate a decent population and are run by corrupted people. THEN you might see the game reach its full potential. Which by its nature isnt all that long lasting but is surely better than what is there. These games all need hard resets every once in awhile because the mechanics make it impossible for late comers to come in and do  anything unless they join an established group and becomes just another drone. Everyone loves the idea of 'open world' building and land 'ownership' until they realize what it takes to get it and hold it or take it if youre not in on the game day one. Then the obvious flaws are pretty stark.

[Hodo 147]

11 hours ago, Muffinman said:

3 of us deal with 4 to 5 wolves every 1-3 minutes. They hit like a truck, killing us within 2-3 hits. We have fur armor to survive the cold. I tried plate but, it made very little improvement. Allowing the massive horde of wolves to kill us in 3-4 hits.

We also have a number of unbalanced issues with starvation. Being in the cold I have 60 Fortitude and still freeze. This causes hunger every 20 minutes +/- a minute. Yet the Vitamins don't drain so I overdose on vitamin levels. Please do tell, what am I doing wrong here?

Taming is just... what the fuck? Can't feed the animal because I get eaten, then lose all the taming proficiency. Waste materials and time doing exactly what others who have tames. 

Ok.

Depending on what level you all are and how well you have established your base of operations.  When I lived in the tundra I dealt with wolves, lions and giant snakes on a regular.  I walked around with 2 flintlock pistols, a bow and 30 arrows/fire arrows (depending on the availability of fire paste).    I also had my sword on me... for last second kills.  I would hear the approaching animal, snake were loud as hell, and so are lions.. wolves not so much.  But you will hear them howling in the background when they are in the area.   So I am always ready for whatever.  

I used to survive in -8c with leather armor, with vitamin bonus and my 36 fortitude.   As long as it didn't start raining I was good.   I would go spear fishing for tuna, sea bass or get the occasional manta ray that washes up on shore... so I have my vitamin D (blue).  There were plenty of vegetables and fruits for vitamin A and B... so that wasn't a problem... and kill a cow or the occasional wolf, lion or snake... good meat there.  

I didnt live in the arctic zones but I lived in the tundra for a long while.  I would die maybe once every 3 or 4 days.   Mostly to my own stupidity.   We were taming lions... that was fun..

Honestly it wasnt that difficult to survive out there.  It just took a bit of work, way more work than I have to put in now.  Even now I make weekly trips up to the tundra for cotton for some of my blueprints that require two resources.    I survived a night in the rain at -10c without shelter... I made it through with 40 health left, and I was miserable but I achieved my goal without dying.  

I just played like I would in real life... I played cautious, patient and kept to the task at hand.   

[Muffinman 13]

4 hours ago, Hodo said:

Ok.

Depending on what level you all are and how well you have established your base of operations.  When I lived in the tundra I dealt with wolves, lions and giant snakes on a regular.  I walked around with 2 flintlock pistols, a bow and 30 arrows/fire arrows (depending on the availability of fire paste).    I also had my sword on me... for last second kills.  I would hear the approaching animal, snake were loud as hell, and so are lions.. wolves not so much.  But you will hear them howling in the background when they are in the area.   So I am always ready for whatever.  

I used to survive in -8c with leather armor, with vitamin bonus and my 36 fortitude.   As long as it didn't start raining I was good.   I would go spear fishing for tuna, sea bass or get the occasional manta ray that washes up on shore... so I have my vitamin D (blue).  There were plenty of vegetables and fruits for vitamin A and B... so that wasn't a problem... and kill a cow or the occasional wolf, lion or snake... good meat there.  

I didnt live in the arctic zones but I lived in the tundra for a long while.  I would die maybe once every 3 or 4 days.   Mostly to my own stupidity.   We were taming lions... that was fun..

Honestly it wasnt that difficult to survive out there.  It just took a bit of work, way more work than I have to put in now.  Even now I make weekly trips up to the tundra for cotton for some of my blueprints that require two resources.    I survived a night in the rain at -10c without shelter... I made it through with 40 health left, and I was miserable but I achieved my goal without dying.  

I just played like I would in real life... I played cautious, patient and kept to the task at hand.   

You seem to have had it a lot easier than my company. We get swarmed by wolves constantly. Lost a level 20 bear to 8 wolves. Couldn't kill them fast enough. So now trying to hunt down more honey to get everyone a bear. Currently living in E2 it's plagued with SotD. The company thought if we cleared them from the area it would reset the spawn rate lower as per the patch. They have spawned back in droves. Often come across 13 at a time huddled together. So it's not just the wolves that spawn in at ridiculous numbers. A small island about the size of schooner has 30-49 horses on it at all times. Perhaps it just how it is? It's crazy because now that we are south looking for honey, spawn rates are down. What is it about the north that has them at a higher rate?

I get how to survive the cold, and obtaining the vitamin buff easy enough. The problem is the vitamins don't drain as fast as our hunger. So we end up either overdosing on vitamins every 20 minutes trying while the character is groaning from starvation pains. To clarify, we have 80% vitamins while starving. To fend off starvation, the vitamins go up and we get the overdose effect. Are we missing something or is the game just not working properly. From what we see in videos, the vitamins drain equally to starvation. Why is it not working for us?

[Hodo 147]

E2 is a hard place to live, you are up in the arctic zone.  I can remember the first 2 days on the island we were at.. we died to the cold and animals every 15min, but after we got the main base established it was much easier.   We even had an attack by a SoD sitting right outside of our base shelling it.   That sucked.   

We then moved inland a bit more and that solved the issue.  We had a huge amount of wolves, giant snakes, and lions on the island.. and they always spawned in packs of 3-5.

A for the food and hunger.. the more you do the more you burn hunger.  If you stand around you will not need to eat but your vitamins will drop the same way.  So I suggest doing high stam burn activities,  I usually cut down trees or gather fiber, because wood, thatch and fiber are always in demand.   

[Muffinman 13]

9 hours ago, Hodo said:

E2 is a hard place to live, you are up in the arctic zone.  I can remember the first 2 days on the island we were at.. we died to the cold and animals every 15min, but after we got the main base established it was much easier.   We even had an attack by a SoD sitting right outside of our base shelling it.   That sucked.   

We then moved inland a bit more and that solved the issue.  We had a huge amount of wolves, giant snakes, and lions on the island.. and they always spawned in packs of 3-5.

A for the food and hunger.. the more you do the more you burn hunger.  If you stand around you will not need to eat but your vitamins will drop the same way.  So I suggest doing high stam burn activities,  I usually cut down trees or gather fiber, because wood, thatch and fiber are always in demand.   

I have to correct, or rather add, to your statement. Gotta remember that while being cold or frozen the hunger ticks down faster. On top of being active with the cold, the hunger ticks down much faster. So we eat more. However the Vitamins don't tick down as fast as the hunger. So ever so slowly the vitamins keep hiking up. Until it overdoses and we die. It's just a weird mechanic to the game. Vitamin management has become more of choir than a challenge.

Yeah we still get SotD spawns between 12-18 at a time. It makes sailing through the E2 zone rather difficult. As well as the storms that come through forcing the two parties together. Really just feels like the game is rigged against the players at this point. Nearly lost another ship to those damn over spawning SotD. Wish they had to follow the same wind, storm and other sailing rules we players have to. That or lower the damage. Two schooners lost to them is too many.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Muffinman

[UDO 361]

17 minutes ago, Muffinman said:

Two schooners lost to them is too many.

so u want to play a game but never ever ever ever lose anything ? is that about right , 4 sloop 2 schooner lost so far do i care no , was it down to SOTD spawns too many on one area to avoid yes , guess what with 2x rates takes couple of hours to rebuild one less with friends 

[McGimp 56]

52 minutes ago, UDO said:

so u want to play a game but never ever ever ever lose anything ? is that about right , 4 sloop 2 schooner lost so far do i care no , was it down to SOTD spawns too many on one area to avoid yes , guess what with 2x rates takes couple of hours to rebuild one less with friends 

The complaint isnt due to the fact that things are lost it is more about the balance of Risk:Reward in this game. It is a serious issue for anyone not playing in a mega.

[Luxfere 90]

Some folks have to work again and back to school so numbers will drop off, i like the less numbers that means more zones are a bit more playable over 50- in a zone pings to the server are unacceptable.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Luxfere

[Scorpionshawn 134]

37 minutes ago, Luxfere said:

Some folks have to work again and back to school so numbers will drop off, i like the less numbers that means more zones are a bit more playable over 50- in a zone pings to the server are unacceptable.

Anyone who thinks this game can last with it being unfriendly to new players is sadly mistaking the drop in numbers will grow the moment the new hype survival game comes out. That would be tomorrow!