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Skyroguen

They lowered the build limit on ships!

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The Galleon is now even harder to customize. They need to have different build limits based on ship size. There is NO reason a sloop needs a 250 build limit, but a 250 build limit is not enough for a Galleon. Planks, masts, decks and cannons count against this build limit. This is ridiculous.

 

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6 minutes ago, Skyroguen said:

The Galleon is now even harder to customize. They need to have different build limits based on ship size. There is NO reason a sloop needs a 250 build limit, but a 250 build limit is not enough for a Galleon. Planks, masts, decks and cannons count against this build limit. This is ridiculous.

 

One thing I have noticed about a lot of people that run into the build limit quickly, they have rope ladders on all 6 masts, at 14 rope ladders each that is 84 ladders, right away, you only need one with ladders.

Then they try and compartmentalize everything, for each deck you only need a 3 walls a ramp and a door to secure each deck, that is 5 per deck 10 if you do fore and aft ways down. The build limit isnt that bad unless you are trying to RP for no reason, only PVEers RP on their ships. 

Edited by Evir
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1 hour ago, Evir said:

One thing I have noticed about a lot of people that run into the build limit quickly, they have rope ladders on all 6 masts, at 14 rope ladders each that is 84 ladders, right away, you only need one with ladders.

Then they try and compartmentalize everything, for each deck you only need a 3 walls a ramp and a door to secure each deck, that is 5 per deck 10 if you do fore and aft ways down. The build limit isnt that bad unless you are trying to RP for no reason, only PVEers RP on their ships. 

but that's not the point. I only have ropes on my forward mast. I accidentally demolished on section and when I tried to replace it it said I have reached my build limit. I removed a couple of cosmetic railings and it still says I am at my build limit. With out customization then every galleon looks the same. I want compartments. I have very few. I want a hold deck, I have stripped it to the minimum. I want a weather deck. The build limit is not enough. 

 

And PvE is not a bad word. Some of us enjoy RP. Some of us like to build for the sake of building. If this game is going to be ONLY about Grouped PvP then they are alienating thier PvE Player base, A large majority of players. They are alienating the Solo/ small group Player Base, and even larger majority of players.

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45 minutes ago, Skyroguen said:

but that's not the point. I only have ropes on my forward mast. I accidentally demolished on section and when I tried to replace it it said I have reached my build limit. I removed a couple of cosmetic railings and it still says I am at my build limit. With out customization then every galleon looks the same. I want compartments. I have very few. I want a hold deck, I have stripped it to the minimum. I want a weather deck. The build limit is not enough. 

 

And PvE is not a bad word. Some of us enjoy RP. Some of us like to build for the sake of building. If this game is going to be ONLY about Grouped PvP then they are alienating thier PvE Player base, A large majority of players. They are alienating the Solo/ small group Player Base, and even larger majority of players.

This. Yes you only NEED ladders on one mast but you may WANT them on all masts for the look, convenience, to allow multiple players to be up each mast. This is the issue if you limit building (not just structure limits either the crew limits are pretty tight as well on the larger ships if you want them fully manned) to the bare minimum necessary for PVP and protection you kill creativity and drive away people like myself who have zero interest in PVP but love to craft and build.

My prefered schooner design has a whole bunch of design choices that do nothing for it as a ship but make it feel like a home. I have dividing walls in the lower deck solely so I can have a store room, kitchen, living room and crew room plus the captains cabin on the upper deck. I have tables and chairs down there for the NPC crew, I made and put on the same crew cloth, hide and fur armours for different climates simply because it adds to the realism of the game for me. I would have given them all swords not for melee but simply so they had a cutlas hanging off their belt (only you can't have one on them that way its either equipped or invisible).

All this stuff would be counting against structure limits, crew weight, etc but I do it because to me it makes the game a little more real and a little more fun. I'm part of a company where we have two galleons and outside of group events (like raiding a golden age ruin) I almost never go near them because to me they have no life and no interest. I can't put rope ladders on all 6 sails (Structure limit), I can't make a dining area and crew cabin (structure limits and weight). They are great at killing ships of the damned and may be ok in PVP (we haven't really had ship to ship combat yet) but that doesn't interest me and building wise we've got parts of the decks that are just unfinished and never will be finished because for PVP other priorities take up the structure limit and so they simply aren't a part of the game i'm interested in bothering with. Increase the structure limit and on the interior decks I can have fun making the galleons look more like a real functioning ship rather than a platform to transport 60 odd NPC's with canons between fights.

Edited by Senkoau
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We've build limits in place for 2 reasons. The primary reason is that boats are considered dynamic platforms and each structure piece that gets added to one, the more the boat costs the server from a performance point of view. Dynamic structures are pretty expensive in general, which is why we have to introduce limitations. The limitations should vary across the different boats. Galleons allow more structures than Sloops. The second reason is for balance, we do have to limit the amount folks can build on certain boats so they don't get too ridiculous. It's by design that you cannot build as freely on a Galleon compared to a Sloop. If you're suggesting that the limits are actually the same across the boats, we'll look into it. It could be the case that the Brig and Gall are quite similar, but there should be a pretty significant/noticeable difference between the Gall and the Sloop.

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Would there be a possibility of having the masts come pre-built with ladders, to simulate climbing the rigging? If it was all one piece, that could free up some pieces and reduce server load a bit.

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31 minutes ago, MeatSammich said:

Would there be a possibility of having the masts come pre-built with ladders, to simulate climbing the rigging? If it was all one piece, that could free up some pieces and reduce server load a bit.

It's a reasonable suggestion. I think they should still be retractable + destroyable though, which may not make it possible. Will see what the techie and designer folks say.

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My only worry is that we are able to build insane super structures on land. But this game is based around our boats. From day one, the Goal, Get a boat. Limiting the build limits on these boats seems more detrimental to lowering the overall perception of the direction of this game, rather than say, limiting land structures. 
I know its not as easy as that, as we do spend a great deal of time inland as well. Hopefully they can find a way to optimize ships to eventually allow for more creativity in the shipbuilding section. 

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4 minutes ago, John McFearsom said:

My only worry is that we are able to build insane super structures on land. But this game is based around our boats. From day one, the Goal, Get a boat. Limiting the build limits on these boats seems more detrimental to lowering the overall perception of the direction of this game, rather than say, limiting land structures. 
I know its not as easy as that, as we do spend a great deal of time inland as well. Hopefully they can find a way to optimize ships to eventually allow for more creativity in the shipbuilding section. 

If land Bases could move, they'd be just as bad (Ark Mega dino buildings etc).  The ability to only recalculate those values every time the structure changes is a huge thing.

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How about a single rope that comes with the sail that players can climb up.  No need to climb them anyway. 

Edited by Krunk

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We need an overall ship HP too,(what's the HP for the ship for anyway ? Is it just when it's sinking? I have yet to see it go down) it's hard to see where the damage on the ship is. Maybe have an option to merge all build on the boat and freeze it the way it does it when you launch the boat for the first time. I get that it's more realistic to repair each plank but there is got to be a better way. I love the tattered look on the sails btw, but they become tattered with 1 shot.

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On 2/9/2019 at 4:33 PM, Evir said:

One thing I have noticed about a lot of people that run into the build limit quickly, they have rope ladders on all 6 masts, at 14 rope ladders each that is 84 ladders, right away, you only need one with ladders.

Then they try and compartmentalize everything, for each deck you only need a 3 walls a ramp and a door to secure each deck, that is 5 per deck 10 if you do fore and aft ways down. The build limit isnt that bad unless you are trying to RP for no reason, only PVEers RP on their ships. 

So, I went to this Mercedes dealership looking for a new car.  And the salesman told me that, because of accessory limits that they were having to downgrade the engines to 4 cyl 100hp. And the leather seats are replaced by velvet.  And the satellite stereo, AM... not stereo. Oh and the carpet... rubber welcome mats cut to shape.

What's the point of investing in a gaudy, massive ship that has all the comforts of a Honda Civic???

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2 hours ago, Jean Lafitte said:

So, I went to this Mercedes dealership looking for a new car.  And the salesman told me that, because of accessory limits that they were having to downgrade the engines to 4 cyl 100hp. And the leather seats are replaced by velvet.  And the satellite stereo, AM... not stereo. Oh and the carpet... rubber welcome mats cut to shape.

What's the point of investing in a gaudy, massive ship that has all the comforts of a Honda Civic???

Game balance? I know that there are a lot of PVEer/RPers that do not care about pesky things like game balance and what PVPers will do when given absurd amounts of structures on ships. 

They learned their lesson in ark when people would surround their dino with full armor made out of metal buildings or have every turret imaginable on them. 

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I'm confused why we have a ship the size of a Galleon even in the game, So many decks, Completely empty and useless. Only there to let people run up and down to repair and that's it. 

I totally understand the server and game have limits. But the Galleon seems massively low compared to the brig. Not to mention the huge advantages you get using a brig anyway.

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6 minutes ago, Naviss said:

I'm confused why we have a ship the size of a Galleon even in the game, So many decks, Completely empty and useless. Only there to let people run up and down to repair and that's it. 

I totally understand the server and game have limits. But the Galleon seems massively low compared to the brig. Not to mention the huge advantages you get using a brig anyway.

The galleon outclasses the brig in every way, it is faster, has more guns, far more crew, more health, more weight carrying capacity, the only downsides are the size and expense of repairing and operating it with full crew.

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1 minute ago, Evir said:

The galleon outclasses the brig in every way, it is faster, has more guns, far more crew, more health, more weight carrying capacity, the only downsides are the size and expense of repairing and operating it with full crew.

I just don't see it. Takes 4 or 5x more mats to build a Gally, Hardly anyone uses gun port planks, Everyone wants to just build a huge tic tac toe box on the front, side or back of a ship for a one hit kill on planks and the turn rate on the Gally is massive. 

A couple brigs would have a field day on a Gally.

It is indeed faster that's for sure. But I find having it full of gunports and cannon's useless with such a horrid turning radius, along with as I mentioned, everyone just using big box designs to mount tons of cannon's in a small area to focus fire.

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38 minutes ago, Naviss said:

I just don't see it. Takes 4 or 5x more mats to build a Gally, Hardly anyone uses gun port planks, Everyone wants to just build a huge tic tac toe box on the front, side or back of a ship for a one hit kill on planks and the turn rate on the Gally is massive. 

A couple brigs would have a field day on a Gally.

It is indeed faster that's for sure. But I find having it full of gunports and cannon's useless with such a horrid turning radius, along with as I mentioned, everyone just using big box designs to mount tons of cannon's in a small area to focus fire.

Lol, I guess you didn't read the patch notes where they changed gunports to be the same as planks for crafting and repairs (less metal needed to repair them therefore you ship is lighter) and you missed the 30% damage nerf to large cannons. Also, before the change the meta for PVP was to stack large cannons on the sides, and a few on the back to take care of ships trying to hit the rear. Then have the ship completely stripped outside of that and stack weight so it is as fast as it can go. 

Now literally very PVPer is looking at "are medium cannons worth it now" for many the answer is yes, because they honestly dont do that much less damage to ships now, and fire much faster. Along with the buff to weight on gunport cannons, (it is now 60% reduced weight when the gunports are closed) things have changed.

You should watch Utoast on twitch, he sank brigs all day, the problem is they could never catch him in a brig, because they are so slow, he constantly could out run them, then pick and choose when he wanted to attack. The only way they finally sunk his galleon was because they used a swarm of schooners to catch up to him and whittle him down until he ran out of repair mats, and made a couple mistakes.

Brigs are honestly garbage right now, too slow, too under powered in terms of potential firepower, not enough base crew, weight is decent. They are basically slow schooners with a bit more weight.

Edited by Evir

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16 minutes ago, Evir said:

Lol, I guess you didn't read the patch notes where they changed gunports to be the same as planks for crafting and repairs (less metal needed to repair them therefore you ship is lighter) and you missed the 30% damage nerf to large cannons. Also, before the change the meta for PVP was to stack large cannons on the sides, and a few on the back to take care of ships trying to hit the rear. Then have the ship completely stripped outside of that and stack weight so it is as fast as it can go. 

Now literally very PVPer is looking at "are medium cannons worth it now" for many the answer is yes, because they honestly dont do that much less damage to ships now, and fire much faster. Along with the buff to weight on gunport cannons, (it is now 60% reduced weight when the gunports are closed) things have changed.

You should watch Utoast on twitch, he sank brigs all day, the problem is they could never catch him in a brig, because they are so slow, he constantly could out run them, then pick and choose when he wanted to attack. The only way they finally sunk his galleon was because they used a swarm of schooners to catch up to him and whittle him down until he ran out of repair mats, and made a couple mistakes.

Brigs are honestly garbage right now, too slow, too under powered in terms of potential firepower, not enough base crew, weight is decent. They are basically slow schooners with a bit more weight.

I didn't miss it, In fact I felt the change in a big way. I was saying it more based around all the ships I seen just today with the same ol' silly box cannon setup.

I'll have a watch of some streamers though. 

The weight change was great in terms of pushing people to use the gunports, Even less mat's to make them / repair.

To get back on topic though, I still feel like the Gally has to few drops. I wish the ships had more like compartments, Where you could only put so much stuff on each deck. 

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Eh, they won't listen to pve players anyway so why bother.

Edited by Xenogias

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I've built a few galleons and never had this issue. You have to be really inefficient to build a galleon and somehow run into the build limit. If you are adding pointless cosmetic structures onto your ship then you are basically handicapping yourself as well as your server and your company.

The Galleon is at the end of the day a warship not some fancy fashion boutique.

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My company uses 2 galleons (one combat 23 guns on board + 4 rear, second cargo 10 guns on board and the ability to carry 30k weight) as for me the galleon has many decks and there is not much space (it is impossible to transport tamed inside, maybe the situation would change if during the installation of the deck you could choose the place of the empty space), we also believe that the galleon needs their self masts with sails, 4 it would be enough. I would also like basic gun ports in the stern of the ships and slightly change the shape of the stern (the current one is inconvenient both in construction and in using it for a ladder).

P.S. I would like more types of ships, for example of frigate (something on maneuverability and armament between brigantine and galleon the difference between them is too huge).

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Well they could limit stuff by type. Limit Structure pieces to X amount. Cannons/Swivels/Balista to X amount. Based on the type of ship like they do for the sails already.

 Obviously the weight of the stuff is also a limiting factor in place already since eventually you will sink your ship. Also hoping at some point they will allow our ships to keep leveling up. We can reach a high level but our ships stop at 41. It doesn't take very long to get a ship to 41 hunting down SOTD. Assuming this is again a performance thing. But surely you guys can figure out a way to make the game run AND give us more when it comes to ships. This game can use a lot of work in the optimizations department when it comes to performance, that much is clear although they have made some noticeable improvements there is still a LOT of ground to cover people with top end systems don't get much more performance than people with a mid level computer. Also people with bad lag cause everyone on the server to lag, surely there is a way to just make the laggy player lag without affecting everyone else on the server.

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The problem comes exactly from people that build for the sake of building. This results in company harbors full of RP ships that tax the servers a lot and make it hardly playable in the area (close to the harbor) for most with non top notch PCs. For a brig it takes like 40 plank, 3 decks, 3 sails, 1 wheel, chest and mess table. Add some guns, ceilings and you are let's say on the 100 structures for a functional ship. Then for many the RP part starts with below deck compartments, halfwalls on the upper deck, railings, lamps, tables, chairs that adds just as many structures probably if not more. And it turns out that such RP ship is taxing the server 2x more compared to just functional ship (for gameplay). With medium sized company you have a lot of ships parked in the harbor and the lag &fps get terrible close to that harbor. Of course they will reduce the structures limit and not just once I bet. This is not a single player creative game after all. Would be cool to make that limit editable, so that low pop private servers can have creative ships, but not on the official where "immersion" for 1 person causes troubles to everyone around him!

Edited by Sharana

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I know this is off topic but I couldn't  find a thread for this, would it be possible to get pier bollards this would help out tremendously  when parking a galleon or brig, and those of us  who are building trade ports. Also moored ships should have the same effects as anchored ships

Edited by Fafnir

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Get better servers if they can't handle it.  Why should players suffer cause the game is poorly optimized and the servers are weak.  I would gladly pay a monthly charge to improve servers and hire more staff to monitor servers from cheaters and such.  Plus monthly fees may tend to drive people who are just around to grief other players.  Just my two cents.

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