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globytheoldpirate

From an island owner view

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I see a lot of people telling that as a solo player they can't claim any land, so they can't play the game.

But you don't actually need a claim to play the game.

I know there is a lot of grieffer owner that are asshole, bullying peoples, destroy others works, set insane 50% rate.
But they're like a few in a dozen.



It's better for an owner to have peoples on his land.

With my company we claim an island (36 points), we allow people to build on it without destroying them (except grieffers) and we set low tax.
A lot of owner do this, it is better for an owner to allow people farming on their islands, to build, etc..
Cuz we got that small % of tax, which help us to pay the island.

We could set 50% tax but nobody would come, so we set 10%.
Which isn't too much compared to the cost of the island we pay.


A lot of people do as we do, or at leat, will do.
The system is made to work like that.



You don't have to have your own island to play, an island cost a lotttt, as a solo player you won't like to play to only pay your island anyway x)
Just find a "good lord", which isn't stupid or an asshole, and enjoy the game together.
It is better for him to have you on his island, cause as I said, an island cost a lot to keep ūüôā¬†

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Ok, so to start on a positive note, I will say that you sound like a good landlord. And for some people, they might be very happy to be a renter at your island and that might be enough for them. 

However, that's not really the point, whether the landlord is Good or "bad". The point is, to be free of a landlord altogether. I believe this is a deeply rooted human need. It is the dream of very many people, to have some place to call "My own". I sure know that's True for me. I rent an apartment IRL, but would a thousand times more want to have my own place. So I rent IRL, now I come Into a fantasy world, a game, and am going to rent and pay taxes just like in real life? A game is supposed to be an escape from real life... where you have a good chance to get stuff you can't in real life. 

The deep seated human need to have your own space, you can see in every neighborhood of Residences. They have fences around their house. The fences are even low, not able to keep out people, simply to mark out "This is my territory". 

As you say, you have a landlord's perspective. It is the same IRL. The people who have money in society, most often Believe that "the other half" doesn't need more money, or that they should be content with what they have, etc. Empathy for others, true empathy, is quite rare, sadly... 

I am not saying that you don't mean well, I think you do. But, what you're saying is a little bit like a millionaire telling the beggar to be happy with what he's got. It might make sense to you since you're in the privileged position. 

This claim system is a disaster for solo players and small groups and sadly it will drive away many players. I am still debating whether to give up the game or not, since I don't rly like lawless and would like a landlord even less. 

 

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8 minutes ago, NoobieDooz said:

Ok, so to start on a positive note, I will say that you sound like a good landlord. And for some people, they might be very happy to be a renter at your island and that might be enough for them. 

However, that's not really the point, whether the landlord is Good or "bad". The point is, to be free of a landlord altogether. I believe this is a deeply rooted human need. It is the dream of very many people, to have some place to call "My own". I sure know that's True for me. I rent an apartment IRL, but would a thousand times more want to have my own place. So I rent IRL, now I come Into a fantasy world, a game, and am going to rent and pay taxes just like in real life? A game is supposed to be an escape from real life... where you have a good chance to get stuff you can't in real life. 

The deep seated human need to have your own space, you can see in every neighborhood of Residences. They have fences around their house. The fences are even low, not able to keep out people, simply to mark out "This is my territory". 

As you say, you have a landlord's perspective. It is the same IRL. The people who have money in society, most often Believe that "the other half" doesn't need more money, or that they should be content with what they have, etc. Empathy for others, true empathy, is quite rare, sadly... 

I am not saying that you don't mean well, I think you do. But, what you're saying is a little bit like a millionaire telling the beggar to be happy with what he's got. It might make sense to you since you're in the privileged position. 

This claim system is a disaster for solo players and small groups and sadly it will drive away many players. I am still debating whether to give up the game or not, since I don't rly like lawless and would like a landlord even less. 

 

I understand the point, but saddly, I don't think dev can put over 5000 islands per servers ūüėē
The actual system isn't perfect, but is far better than the old one.
Solo player can't really old their own land, but they can't claim the entire biggest island as some did before ^^' 


I like this system as "the more you are, the big island you can get".
Which is better than "lol I was first".
It's still my opinion ^^
I like the rent system with gold too, it encourage people to collaborate, to live together/help each other.

Hope people will be better each days ūüôā¬†

Edited by globytheoldpirate

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Uhm, there is no need for them to put out "5000 islands"... if they would have kept some version of the old claim system, but with a limit on how many flags you can own, the problem would have been solved or at least almost non-existent...  Cause there would have been a LOT more land for everyone! Not just companies with 5 members or more. 

As a solo player, then you could have had maybe 1 or 2 claims. Now, instead, a few companies own the whole Atlas, and the rest of the population is told to rent or go to lawless. When there was a much more fair solution that they could have implemented instead. I don't know how many times I saw players suggest to the developers to simply limit the amount of claims, and scale it according to Company size. 

I am sorry but this system is deeply unfair.  We all paid the same amount of money for the game and should all have a Fair chance at owning a piece of land, However small it would be. I am not a greedy person, I don't need an island. Just a small claim for a shipyard, a base, but I want it to be my own, don't wanna be at the mercy of a landlord. 

The old claim size was perfect. It was enough for a base for a solo person or small company. They could have limited something like: 1 claim for solo player, 2 claims for 5 person Company, 5 claims for 10+ Company, and so on. With a max of maybe 15-20 claims for the larger companies. Most people would have been able to see the fairness of such a system. But instead they went with this and it makes me sad cause I really have loved this game from the start but it is getting so frustrating with this unfair system. 

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2 minutes ago, NoobieDooz said:

Uhm, there is no need for them to put out "5000 islands"... if they would have kept some version of the old claim system, but with a limit on how many flags you can own, the problem would have been solved or at least almost non-existent...  Cause there would have been a LOT more land for everyone! Not just companies with 5 members or more. 

As a solo player, then you could have had maybe 1 or 2 claims. Now, instead, a few companies own the whole Atlas, and the rest of the population is told to rent or go to lawless. When there was a much more fair solution that they could have implemented instead. I don't know how many times I saw players suggest to the developers to simply limit the amount of claims, and scale it according to Company size. 

I am sorry but this system is deeply unfair.  We all paid the same amount of money for the game and should all have a Fair chance at owning a piece of land, However small it would be. I am not a greedy person, I don't need an island. Just a small claim for a shipyard, a base, but I want it to be my own, don't wanna be at the mercy of a landlord. 

The old claim size was perfect. It was enough for a base for a solo person or small company. They could have limited something like: 1 claim for solo player, 2 claims for 5 person Company, 5 claims for 10+ Company, and so on. With a max of maybe 15-20 claims for the larger companies. Most people would have been able to see the fairness of such a system. But instead they went with this and it makes me sad cause I really have loved this game from the start but it is getting so frustrating with this unfair system. 

Claim per company would be really great too you're right.
2 claims for solo player (one for house, and one for shipward/port).
And one claim more every 2-3 people I guess, might work

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Exactly, it would work. It would also be better cause more people would be happy and not leave the game. Game is better when there are a lot of active (and happy) players in the game. Oh well, we will see what happens in the future I guess. Maybe if enough people start quitting the game, they will change it again, who knows. 

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Well that is the problem, isn't it?
Everyone thinks they need a claim to do anything.

What you really need is a (small) base as a start-/return point for your ships to explorer the world.
That is the intended concept of the game.

But the advertisement for Atlas is still different.
They wanted to cater to the competitive companies to have something to play over - conquest of claims.
But they advertise it in a way that everyone, even the single-player, needs a claim to do "anything".
Even thought this is totally not true, most people believe it, look at the map, can't see a free island to claim, and "rage-quit" to a lawless where they live like they had no claim anyway...

So better to get on a claimed island - as intended - and finally play the game
"But the toxic landowners...!!!"
Yeah?!?! Find one that is good...

Or - for the Devs - make changes to make land claims more beneficial for everyone:
- Most PVP people want to get back online to their ships intact, to continue play the game as intended, with ships. Most people who loose their ship on the high seas, want to get back to where they can build a new ship in peace. But with the raid times - which are too long - your chances are high you still loose everything 'daily'.
So make it that claimed islands are always protected and just make the Claim Flag Radius PVP - anything in it can be destroyed by anyone anytime.
If the flag gets declaimed the island becomes lawless and therefore PVP everywhere.
That will give max protection in peace time, and incentivise everyone (owner and tenants) to help setup defenses around the Claim Flag and help when the island is attacked.

- The Tax problem is also easy, if it gets incentivised for the owner.
Just make it that the taxes are a % of the harvest which the owner just gets, but are not reduced from the harvester. Set them at a fixed value like 10% or lower to incentivise owners to have more people harvesting on the island. So for every 100% harvested the harvester gets 100% and the owner get additional 10%. No Tax griefing and landowners loving visitors.

- The Problem with land owners deleting structures is also easy.
Make it so that deleting a structure starts a timer of a few days. When the timer runs out the structure (including all items in it) is deleted - so no stealing stuff by the land owner.
Notify the owner of the structure that a timer has started. He can either take his structures down - getting some resources back - or loose it, because maybe he is no longer playing the game.

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51 minutes ago, Sheepshooter said:

Well that is the problem, isn't it?
Everyone thinks they need a claim to do anything.

What you really need is a (small) base as a start-/return point for your ships to explorer the world.
That is the intended concept of the game.

 

A small base as a start/return point IS a claim.  (Assuming people mean a small base that other players can't screw around with)

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5 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

A small base as a start/return point IS a claim.  (Assuming people mean a small base that other players can't screw around with)

Your base is the actual ground on which it stands.
A Claim is the whole island right now, which you not need to have a base on it - compare to your base on lawless/unclaimed islands.
And like I said the problem is, that your base is not save in the current toxic player environment, where even the landowner can grief your base the worst way possible - by just deleting it.

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The actual system work pretty fine actually

See more and more "good lord" and more and more tribe start building on my island and other near.
It's still hard for us to get thoses golds, but.. that's our problem, we wanted it ^^

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This system is pretty like a company.

The owner company is the Captain.
You have to trust the Captain to join.
The Captain can be an asshole or the best guy in a world.

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28 minutes ago, Sheepshooter said:

Your base is the actual ground on which it stands.
A Claim is the whole island right now, which you not need to have a base on it - compare to your base on lawless/unclaimed islands.
And like I said the problem is, that your base is not save in the current toxic player environment, where even the landowner can grief your base the worst way possible - by just deleting it.

Right now, it's an island.  Previously it was a little more space than needed to put the stuff used to do crafting, taming, shipbuilding, etc.    Previously, you owned that space and people couldn't destroy your stuff  in pve.    Now you get whatever some other player decides you can have, and they can destroy your stuff.

As the eye doctor says, "Better?  or worse?"

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In prior iteration of the game I have had a claim,  our group of 8 had maybe 10% of what is now a 35 point island.  All was good, we had plenty of space to build and still have green space    We were in alliance with others that claimed on the islands,  the only reason we met them is they also claimed on the same island.  We had taxes, we paid them when harvesting on theirs ares, they paid when on ours.     We also worked together and traded frequently  This all worked well because we where equals.   

The old claim system let me establish an area and plan out the base.   Some like what we did and gave us more land by our base, so we could expand. 

This iteration however, did not get an island.  Yes,could live on lawless, but at anytime could get boxed in my a anyone, than now it 10 days after they stop playing before I could clean up the mess.   Or I could pillar spam the area I may want to build, then be no better than the people I complain that pillar spam.

They should have kept the old claim flags on PvE, but added upkeep for each flag, that had to paid at each flag, so if you had 100 claims would have to have to make sure 100 flags are stocked with gold.   Taxes should be capped in PvE at 10%, no reason for more, but the land is yours since your paying for it, you can decide not to let people build or not.   Possibly adding a white lest to allow specific other to build.

I chose to take this time to quit, and uninstalled the game.  But I hold out hope they will make the game desirable for solo/small groups. under the guise of making it better for solo and small groups, they made it far worse.

 

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I think many people will leave the game if they can't claim an Island. I doubt very much I will continue to play if I can't claim a peace of land.

We are a small group and spent half a day doing treasure maps to get gold for an Island, set our claim flag, and with just 20 minutes to go it canceled and we lost our gold. We really had no idea someone else had started a claim there, the flag message only told us we were contesting after we set our flag and lost all of our gold.

We do not need an entire Island, we would be happy with a piece the size of maybe 3 of the old claims. We played NA PVE, which they did away with for 2 weeks, we are playing now on the NA not full PVP. We will try to get an Island when NA-PVE comes online, but if we can't get an Island I will most likely quit.

I really enjoy this game, but I own my own home IRL and have no desire to pay rent in a game I paid the same money for as my landlord. IRL if you want to be a Landlord you have to pay out big to own the place you are renting out, here you pay the same as the homeless.

And what is making it much worse now is the fact that when we do a treasure map, 50% of the gold is going to the owner of the Island. Can you imagine a real life Pirate paying taxes every time they dug up treasure? What a crazy notion.

Edited by WayneKinne

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14 minutes ago, globytheoldpirate said:

If you play PvE, taxe doesn't affect you.
You will still get 100%, and the owner get 20% + (magic)
Since the last patch

That is NOT correct,  if you dig up treasure that is 100 gold in 50% tax areas.   you get only half the gold that shows on map.

If you had tested this in PTR, you forgot about everyone having Digger III with the gold bonus.

Edit: that is old, I have since uninstalled the game after this island level claim.   Not enough to get me back, but a good step in right direction.

Edited by José Gaspar

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1 minute ago, José Gaspar said:

That is NOT correct,  if you dig up treasure that is 100 gold in 50% tax areas.   you get only half the gold that shows on map.

If you had tested this in PTR, you forgot about everyone having Digger III with the gold bonus.

Not since the today patch ūüôā¬†

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3 minutes ago, José Gaspar said:

That is NOT correct,  if you dig up treasure that is 100 gold in 50% tax areas.   you get only half the gold that shows on map.

If you had tested this in PTR, you forgot about everyone having Digger III with the gold bonus.

it has been changed today to 20% max tax and you dont lose anything but its just added on top. check last patchnotes. So to you taxes will not matter anymore

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6 hours ago, NoobieDooz said:

Ok, so to start on a positive note, I will say that you sound like a good landlord. And for some people, they might be very happy to be a renter at your island and that might be enough for them. 

However, that's not really the point, whether the landlord is Good or "bad". The point is, to be free of a landlord altogether. I believe this is a deeply rooted human need. It is the dream of very many people, to have some place to call "My own". I sure know that's True for me. I rent an apartment IRL, but would a thousand times more want to have my own place. So I rent IRL, now I come Into a fantasy world, a game, and am going to rent and pay taxes just like in real life? A game is supposed to be an escape from real life... where you have a good chance to get stuff you can't in real life. 

The deep seated human need to have your own space, you can see in every neighborhood of Residences. They have fences around their house. The fences are even low, not able to keep out people, simply to mark out "This is my territory". 

As you say, you have a landlord's perspective. It is the same IRL. The people who have money in society, most often Believe that "the other half" doesn't need more money, or that they should be content with what they have, etc. Empathy for others, true empathy, is quite rare, sadly... 

I am not saying that you don't mean well, I think you do. But, what you're saying is a little bit like a millionaire telling the beggar to be happy with what he's got. It might make sense to you since you're in the privileged position. 

This claim system is a disaster for solo players and small groups and sadly it will drive away many players. I am still debating whether to give up the game or not, since I don't rly like lawless and would like a landlord even less. 

 

Well stated. You may be the great landlord, but the fact remains that you can still at anytime destroy what others have built just because. But the fact is that people like myself and the ones that I game with all the time  just want to have a decent gaming experience and not have to worry that when we log in everything that we have built is gone, destroyed or whatever. Not having a NA PVE server is a real setback to us. I am afraid that the devs have succeeded in driving us away with this decision that there is no NA PVE server. and to compound the fact that when they decided to wipe they announced it a fricken month in advance. Yike!!!! when will they learn.

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11 minutes ago, BoaRo said:

Well stated. You may be the great landlord, but the fact remains that you can still at anytime destroy what others have built just because. But the fact is that people like myself and the ones that I game with all the time  just want to have a decent gaming experience and not have to worry that when we log in everything that we have built is gone, destroyed or whatever. Not having a NA PVE server is a real setback to us. I am afraid that the devs have succeeded in driving us away with this decision that there is no NA PVE server. and to compound the fact that when they decided to wipe they announced it a fricken month in advance. Yike!!!! when will they learn.

An owner only has 24 hrs. It's not anytime an owner wants.

As far as NA PVE, my company is NA, but we have claimed an island, I see no reason for us to switch.  If we hadn't claimed one, we would have moved.

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I like the new System,And was Fine with the old one. If i had Not claimed And Island i would be Totally Fine living as a gennant And Pay taxes. We now Aim to Build a Giant town again to trade animals And such as we Used to. Also motivating tennants to Build Pretty villages And helping them out with seeds And animals to Farm until they got their own ones

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1 hour ago, 8ball said:

An owner only has 24 hrs. It's not anytime an owner wants.

As far as NA PVE, my company is NA, but we have claimed an island, I see no reason for us to switch.  If we hadn't claimed one, we would have moved.

it is whenever they want to though , as anything u build can be demolished for 24hrs .... u could have half your base safe then decide u want to build more expand etc the landowners doesn't want you too for whatever twisted reason he may have for denying your enjoyment of a game , so u can not expand to make room for the new tames u built or maybe u want to build a new shipyard for that bring u wanted , landowners doesnt want u to have one ...  

 sorry this doesn't work on pve , all demolish features for pve must be removed , and no build radius needs to be increased ,    

conan exiles managed to get single items to decay fast if not attached to other items , timer increasing with every item attached, this landlord system is just poor excuse as the devs can't work out how to code proper decay system

Edited by UDO

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If I could buy a deed on a tolerant island that would formally grant me all rights on a plot ... a deed that the next owner has to respect, then I wouldn't mind paying taxes as it would feel like my own place.

Edited by wandelaar
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43 minutes ago, UDO said:

it is whenever they want to though , as anything u build can be demolished for 24hrs .... u could have half your base safe then decide u want to build more expand etc the landowners doesn't want you too for whatever twisted reason he may have for denying your enjoyment of a game , so u can not expand to make room for the new tames u built or maybe u want to build a new shipyard for that bring u wanted , landowners doesnt want u to have one ...  

 sorry this doesn't work on pve , all demolish features for pve must be removed , and no build radius needs to be increased ,    

conan exiles managed to get single items to decay fast if not attached to other items , timer increasing with every item attached, this landlord system is just poor excuse as the devs can't work out how to code proper decay system

Saying whenever they want is a bit misleading though, really. Was just clarifying the 24 hr window.

As far as conan, I have 3500 hours in there.  They do have fast decay for a single foundation, however,  built a singke foundation hut with a door, will last 7 days.  If the foundation spam, ie. A grief wall, is attached to a house, spawn in house,  all connected pieces are reset, even if it spans the entire map.

 

Edited to add: it took them a year and a half to get that.

Edited by 8ball

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1 hour ago, Jerryn said:

Maybe someone should suggest a grandfather clause.  That is, any structure(s) on an island that is claimed  by someone else are automatically protected; no demolish allowed, only decay.

And/or, a second type of claim, which is sort of the deed mentioned above.   Limited to one, and only for single player/small companies; not allowed/auto removed for big companies and island owners, and anyone that joins a large company or one that owns an island.   Works, sort of like the old claim system, but once setup and allowed to remain, you can build within those limits, no matter what, with full protection.  I would also make it square, not round.  And, maybe a second one that is for the water only; or else, the square one, if place close to the water (within 1/2 distance) automatically extends to provide a secondary water claim.

Then to extend on the idea above, if someone wants to demolish your stuff, they go to the flag, or the flag boarder, and activate the delayed demolish. 

Some interesting ideas there.  I didn't understand the first part though.  For example, say the server opens up, there's a land rush, and by the time some guy claims an island there are 4 other people on it who have been there 3-4 hours each.  What happens?  He doesn't get the destroy window against those 4?

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