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Blackthron

New claim system

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I was reading and reading... but still can't believe that. Or it's just my English? (it's not my native lang., so mb I missunderstood soemthing?)

 

There will be 1 owner of the island (aka settlement). And you can attack him only in druing 9h window. Owner  of the island (settlement) can destroy anything and anytime.

How can me and my friends live on this island if owner will destroy everything? Whats the point?

 

Am I missing something or developers are so badly out of touch with their own game?

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What sort of relationship are you planning on having with your governor? 

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Let's say, I want to leave there peacefully. Why would I build there something if I know I can't fight back ?

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47 minutes ago, Blackthron said:

Let's say, I want to leave there peacefully. Why would I build there something if I know I can't fight back ?

I let people live on our land and have a simple set of rules. Don't be toxic (No sexism, racism, harassment, etc.) towards people, my tribe, other people living on the island, people visiting the island. Don't build on resource spawns. I leave people's stuff alone if they follow those rules.

If you move onto somebody else's island and they do not nice things let me know, I have a list going and like adding to it. 😄

~Lotus

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How can I be sure one day you won't get bored from Atlas and you decide to destroy everything. Do you get my point? 

Imho, new system is a disaster.

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Its just a lack of trust.   People assume every island owner is going to be a dictator and steal whatever they want and destroy peoples stuff on a whim.  It couldn't be farther from the truth.  Most people I've dealt with in the game are actually quite friendly and responsible.  And, the truth is, a good island owner knows they need people settling on the island to help reduce the cost of claim upkeep.  Its in the owners best interest to maintain good relations with the people on their island, or else they'll end up shouldering a much larger (and unsustainable) upkeep cost.  A single person might be able to claim an island, but a single person won't be able to hold it without help.

 

That said, dictators will lose favor, and thus population, while those who cannot stand the dictator will move to better islands with better owners, and those islands will flourish and prosper as a result.  For those with trust issues, though, a good piece of advice is to keep the majority of your most valued possessions on your boats.

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Posted (edited)

I see. I like the idea of settlements and everyone living peacefully and working together. But this not gonna happen. I will not waste my time playing on someone's island(settlement) unless I have a very very strong assurance that I can live on my 2 sq meters as long as I can defend it. 

 

And there will be dictators... any big guild won't allow anyone on their island.

 

I see where it is going... no small crews, only big zergs. Sad thing game does not support large scale pvp... patheic player limit + lags for start.. 

Edited by Blackthron

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Posted (edited)

I completely understand the creator of this post. It's a nice illusion that we live here peacefully on islands with a "ruler". Every kind of PvP game shows that people enjoy destroying other people's fun the most. Especially if one player (the owner of the settlement) has complete power over all other players on the island. If you're not friendly enough or you have different opinions, the work of weeks can be destroyed and you can't even defend yourself. But I'm also not sure if I understood the claim system correctly.

 

Edited by denhope
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I didnt read all post above but i absolute see the point of the guy started this post. 

 

The land owner can at any point chose to demolish everything you own at any point. I see allot of people just starting "on my Island i Will let everyone build". Just imagine for once that you wont be first to get a land, that you will live under someone elses roof. 

You farm rare maths all over atlas for weeks, when suddenly you wake up one day and lost everything, what will you do? Just start over under someone elses roof in hope it dosent happen again? Dont think so. 

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24 minutes ago, Knivet said:

I didnt read all post above but i absolute see the point of the guy started this post. 

 

The land owner can at any point chose to demolish everything you own at any point. I see allot of people just starting "on my Island i Will let everyone build". Just imagine for once that you wont be first to get a land, that you will live under someone elses roof. 

You farm rare maths all over atlas for weeks, when suddenly you wake up one day and lost everything, what will you do? Just start over under someone elses roof in hope it dosent happen again? Dont think so. 

True. Just imagine some assholes telling everybody they can build on their island. After 2 weeks they destroy everything and laugh. Best troll ever.

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32 minutes ago, Knivet said:

I didnt read all post above but i absolute see the point of the guy started this post. 

 

The land owner can at any point chose to demolish everything you own at any point. I see allot of people just starting "on my Island i Will let everyone build". Just imagine for once that you wont be first to get a land, that you will live under someone elses roof. 

You farm rare maths all over atlas for weeks, when suddenly you wake up one day and lost everything, what will you do? Just start over under someone elses roof in hope it dosent happen again? Dont think so. 

 

It's the same risk as being part of a company or any player organisation in a MMO. In the end it all comes down to trust at some point. This also would be no different under any other system. It might make it harder for the "owner" but let's be realistic here, small groups will always be at the mercy of bigger ones and if it's too hard for island owners to remove people then the pendulum swings the other way and bigger groups ask themselves why they should even bother keeping smaller groups around (that's what happened in the old claim flag system, the potential trouble wasn't worth it to keep smaller groups around).

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The reality of the PvP claim system is this.
We know what people are like in this game, because we have played this game.
Being the owner of an island gives you the ability to destroy peoples buildings/cannons/whatever without recourse.
What this means is there are a couple different scenarios that can play out.

1. Benevolent Dictator.

This is the best case scenario, the company who genuinely wants to play the game and have fun, they like the idea of owning an island and managing it to make it flourish. The company will work hard to keep the island clear of pillars and spam, they will clean up the sites when people have left the island or quit the game to open the space for more people. They will have a reasonable tax rate that covers the upkeep and a little bit more for their troubles in keeping the island clean.

People will flock to these islands because they are good, to the point that the owner company has to start turning people away, they will become prosperous paradise worlds ripe for conquer, the residents will help to maintain the owners hold because they like it and fear someone worse. Here's hoping  they can.

2. Malicious Dictator.

Not the worst but certainly not the best option, these guys will do the work keeping the island clean but only because they want to maintain their tax income which will be high but not high enough for people to leave on mass because they already have established bases and are familiar with the island. Besides it's a hassle to move everything particularly when you don't know what the new place will be like. People will stay, but they will always be on the lookout for a better place and will never truely "settle"

3. Absentee Owner

An owner company that simply just owns the land, they have a well defended tax bank (or whatever other item they use to hold the flag) but not much else. They wont keep the land clear and will have a high tax rate for whoever is willing to build on their land as they want to squeeze what they can from as many as they can while they can. These islands will be pillared paradises with all the good stuff spawn blocked.

4. The forbidden zones

Companies who actively uproot and demo anyone non-company who settles on the island, they wont need walls, just cannons and a pick axe to walk through and destroy anything they find.

5. The conquered paradise

These will be the real tragedies of Atlas. An opposing company will target the owner company and wipe them out, they will then claim the land and proceed to destroy EVERYTHING on the island that belongs to a group that refuses to submit and pay tribute to the "new rulers". This will be easy because none of the other inhabitants will have defensive structures or be able to retaliate because the PvP is turned off against the owner company.

I'm sure there will be good islands, at least I hope there will be. But I am 100% sure there will be wastelands and hostile tribes holding people to ransom.
Similar situations will occur in PvE servers because well.

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37 minutes ago, Knivet said:

I didnt read all post above but i absolute see the point of the guy started this post. 

 

The land owner can at any point chose to demolish everything you own at any point. I see allot of people just starting "on my Island i Will let everyone build". Just imagine for once that you wont be first to get a land, that you will live under someone elses roof. 

You farm rare maths all over atlas for weeks, when suddenly you wake up one day and lost everything, what will you do? Just start over under someone elses roof in hope it dosent happen again? Dont think so. 

My mental image some flag holders just removing doors and demolishing the persons ship storage box.  Like someone walking in and helping themselves to your fridge, only they took the entire fridge.

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1 hour ago, LinkesAuge said:

 

It's the same risk as being part of a company or any player organisation in a MMO. In the end it all comes down to trust at some point. This also would be no different under any other system. It might make it harder for the "owner" but let's be realistic here, small groups will always be at the mercy of bigger ones and if it's too hard for island owners to remove people then the pendulum swings the other way and bigger groups ask themselves why they should even bother keeping smaller groups around (that's what happened in the old claim flag system, the potential trouble wasn't worth it to keep smaller groups around).

Yeah, but the risk wouldnt be like that if they at least could protect themself? 

 

Would be better if the "owner" of the island could place one flag on the map, and the smaller tribes put down flags that they control(around same size of the flags now), higher upkeep the more flags they place. When they dont pay up, they loose the flag

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There is a cost to being a owner, UPKEEP... having allies, and or other players reduces your upkeep costs. It is in your best interests to allow people to settle. However it also reduces at some risk insiders... but not spying. You still have your defenses being maintained by the players living on your lands. On a larger scale where you need the whole island? only allow top allies to settle there. I understand it is briefly described in detail what is going to happen with this update, so its still up in the air to changes.

 

If your looking to spam foundations close, and inside a company you will be sorry...

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I thought the island owner had 12 hours to demolish new structures.  Are you guys saying they can demolish anything at any time even months down the road?  I'm confused.

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Stated in last Captains Log

"Claim owners will be able to demolish structures (via the pinwheel) on their settlements temporarily as long as the structure has been placed within the last 12 hours. After the 12 hour period has passed, they will not be able to demolish the structures using the pinwheel, and must manually destroy it."

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

I thought the island owner had 12 hours to demolish new structures.  Are you guys saying they can demolish anything at any time even months down the road?  I'm confused.

In PvP outside 12 hours he/she put a Canon our other resource near you building and destroy it. Even if you are in the save 9 hour window. Only landowner can do it.

I would just gate you in. That is cheaper.

Edited by awakatanka

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1 hour ago, awakatanka said:

In PvP outside 12 hours he/she put a Canon our other resource near you building and destroy it. Even if you are in the save 9 hour window. Only landowner can do it.

I would just gate you in. That is cheaper.

Can you quote where you read this? I dont remember them saying owners could attack other structures at anypoint after the 12 hour window. But Icould be wrong.

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7 hours ago, microphobe said:

The reality of the PvP claim system is this.
1. Benevolent Dictator.

2. Malicious Dictator.
3. Absentee Owner
4. The forbidden zones
5. The conquered paradise

My worry is not witch owner you get. Its rather the owner will be a mega company.

Beyond that, all onwers of any decent island will be a mega company. 

And they will all be allied, officially or not matters little and less.

Why is this my concern? Becuase this is the way it was previously. I was in a mega. Guess who I was not supposed to attack? Pretty much everyone else on the top 10 list. It was a super lame pirate experience almost exclusively attacking much smaller groups who had maybe attacked a ship or said something wrong.

I am hoping that the upkeep is significant, and that every additional Island adds (2) zeros to all upkeep costs. If megas are maxing out claims, add more zeros untill that shit stops. 

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27 minutes ago, Pirate Hawkins said:

In PVP there is no ownership that cannot be challenged or destroyed, hence the verses in the name. 

One of the reasons I’ve decided to play PvP this time. Everyone has the ability to check everyone else. If you make enemies you will have to answer for your actions and most likely you will be outnumbered. 

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4 hours ago, gumbyc said:

Stated in last Captains Log

"Claim owners will be able to demolish structures (via the pinwheel) on their settlements temporarily as long as the structure has been placed within the last 12 hours. After the 12 hour period has passed, they will not be able to demolish the structures using the pinwheel, and must manually destroy it."

If you're going to quote a bullet point from the Captains Log, please, at least quote the whole thing.  For PvE (which some people are confused about) the timer may be extended, since you can't really destroy anything via pickaxe or cannon afterwards.
 

  • Claim owners will be able to demolish structures (via the pinwheel) on their settlements temporarily as long as the structure has been placed within the last 12 hours. After the 12 hour period has passed, they will not be able to demolish the structures using the pinwheel, and must manually destroy it. Claim owners can do this outside of raid hours or warlike. This exists as an anti-griefing mechanism. On PvE servers, we may extend the time beyond 12 hours as players will not have the option to destroy via PVP.

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I was replying to DOCHOLLIDAY's questions regarding being able to destroy things pass the initial period. My quote answered that. The PVE statement dosen't change that.

Ya, it would have been nice to post the entire statement, but I see too many people re-posting enormous sections for no reason. I try to be conservative. 

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14 minutes ago, ikarirain said:

 

  • This exists as an anti-griefing mechanism. 

Hmm. Found the fly in the ointment. The anti griefing mechanism only applies to the have nots. 

Mayhaps this system wont last long in its current state. Seems just a bit too far fetched to imagine a small group excelling and that was the intention. Them again it all comes down to upkeep. That 2nd island better be god damned cost prohibitive.

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