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gnihar

officialpvp Lawless after wipe?

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Posted (edited)

So, after watching dev stream and reading the patchnotes for march 20 update regarding the lawless areas, I came to a conclusion that:

1. there will still be lawless areas, free to settle

2. lawless area will be pretty much unchanged compared to now, with exception to new decay system

3. very unclear description of lawless decay system

4. unclear on whether pillars and foundations would have same blocking range or will that range be upped

In conclusion, my logic is that, despite the no raid window and build everywhere (but demolishable by claim owner even off the raid time), claimed land will not be  viable for non zerg tribes, unless they are willing to be slaves of zerg tribes and finally either integrate into them, losing their sovereignity, or try to de-throne them in a sneak attack, a mutiny of sorts, and take over the claim (possible if zerg tribe is falling apart internally or losing active players and alliances somehow). Because I doubt that if all zergs return, that non zerg will be able to actually maintain their claim. That is, they will - for a while. And then zerg will come, and losing everything or submitting will be the only available alternatives.

Therefore, my logic dictates - go for lawless, and fortify your spot with some heavy and cleverly put AI defenses, walls, Foundations and mortars. Zerg will not bother by it as it will be preocupied with warring for claimed. Non zerg can be defeated more easily, and battleground is more even.

Pros: no bother about claim, possibly more avoided by zerg companies, potential longer no raid lifespan

Cons: raidable 100% of the time, unclear decay system, not sure if foundations would block any constructions of enemy

EDIT: if the devs really plan to actively damage lawless builds over time, it would be fair to give lawless the auto-repair structure similar to those on pve islands which would repair structures in radius in same pace they get damaged by system - provided materials are placed into those; not make us hammer every single foundation.

Pls discuss: lawless or not on PVP official.

 

edit: At this point, would appreciate developer feedback to this and their answer on what are they planning to do with lawless: seeing how many people play on them, and that some lawless clusters even now have steady and active population - do you still plan to make us go from lawless, like many people think, or are you willing to let go of that doctrine and make lawless a viable place to live?

Edited by gnihar
lawless auto repair idea

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Yes, all islands lawless please, no decay, no claim flags and no raid time windows amd war token crap = everyone happy

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I was wondering if there would be a testlive server where we can test and try the new system, and see it first hand before the actual wipe happens?

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30 minutes ago, gnihar said:

I was wondering if there would be a testlive server where we can test and try the new system, and see it first hand before the actual wipe happens?

There has been mention of a test server a week before the wipe.

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I am pro lawless rules. The lawless rules are much better than the claim flag systems. the only thing appealing about a claim is having a tax bank, once youre over the fact that you can farm your own resources just fine without a tax bank, the disadvantages of the claiming system make it so completely undesirable for any player that is adept enough to defend their own base without a zerg to fast travel in and save them. Lawless becomes the clear choice for anyone that has thought enough about the liabilities of each system. The new claim system proposal sounds even worse than the existing, and so.... More lawless servers please.

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4 minutes ago, Bloody Blackjack said:

I am pro lawless rules. The lawless rules are much better than the claim flag systems. the only thing appealing about a claim is having a tax bank, once youre over the fact that you can farm your own resources just fine without a tax bank, the disadvantages of the claiming system make it so completely undesirable for any player that is adept enough to defend their own base without a zerg to fast travel in and save them. Lawless becomes the clear choice for anyone that has thought enough about the liabilities of each system. The new claim system proposal sounds even worse than the existing, and so.... More lawless servers please.

I tend to agree here, but at this point I do not completely get the "damage decay" system that will be implemented in new lawless rules. Does it mean that every single wall, foundation and cannon will suffer damage over time, with only way to repair the hammer and clicking on 10k building blocks....or will the buildings only take damage after 4 days in real time?

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Some players keep posting ,just do it all lawless, well that's not the plan, and I dont see why you shouldn't have both like they plan to.  If the claim system fails again as yall predict, then it would be time to suggest all lawless. 

It's easier to hide and better to layer your base in lawless, but I think the new claim system will be pretty cool, it's an in between on full orp, where you can feel like it's your fault yall were raided, because you just logged in to work on a ship or gather resources, and no orp, where no pvp goes on whatsoever because no one has anything to pvp with. 

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@gnihar well yeah there is that. And it could be that they do that and ruin lawless living.   Ill tell you... Ive lost lots of buildings and boats..... Ive only lost one boat and NO buildings to enemies... Everything else was demo'd and sunk either by appropriation or incompetents by people in the mega company i was in.. I wasn't happy until i left them and went to lawless.. The LORD and VASSAL system in place is not very considerate to the individuals playing inside of these mega companies. And the game mechanics NEARLY require you to be in a mega company/alliance to be able to play on claimable land at all.  So if they ruin lawless then it really will be a sad sad day.

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6 minutes ago, gnihar said:

I tend to agree here, but at this point I do not completely get the "damage decay" system that will be implemented in new lawless rules. Does it mean that every single wall, foundation and cannon will suffer damage over time, with only way to repair the hammer and clicking on 10k building blocks....or will the buildings only take damage after 4 days in real time?

The decay system means exactly as you've assumed.  Every single placeable piece, whether utility or building part, will lose durability over time.  But, you won't need to repair every single piece one at a time.  Instead, you get an auto-repair building that, when stocked with repair materials, will keep everything in range repaired.  This is how it's going to work in PvE, anyways. 

 

I would assume that it will work the same way in PvP, however, I believe that the claim system prevents decay in exchange for claim upkeep, which will consume resources in the tax bank based on the island size and the number of companies settled on the island.  That negates the need for a repair building, but only on claimed islands.

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Just now, ikarirain said:

The decay system means exactly as you've assumed.  Every single placeable piece, whether utility or building part, will lose durability over time.  But, you won't need to repair every single piece one at a time.  Instead, you get an auto-repair building that, when stocked with repair materials, will keep everything in range repaired.  This is how it's going to work in PvE, anyways. 

 

I would assume that it will work the same way in PvP, however, I believe that the claim system prevents decay in exchange for claim upkeep, which will consume resources in the tax bank based on the island size and the number of companies settled on the island.  That negates the need for a repair building, but only on claimed islands.

It is confirmed that there would be a repair box on pve lands.

However, it is not entirely clear that the same box would be available on unclaimed/lawless land. It would be very nice if it would, and it would bring more balance.

Are you sure that type of building will be available in pvp official lawless though?

 

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I'm only speculating.  But there's no reason for them to block off a learnable blueprint.  Based on my assumptions after watching the stream, my guess is that it will be available for use in both PvP and PvE, in lawless and claimable zones.  The only difference is that in PvP, the claim system would make the repair building useless.  You 'could' build it, but it's not going to help anything since the tax building would stop decay altogether.  Can't repair what doesn't break, after all.

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if there is a repair building to negate the damage, that would actually be perfect, thing will autodecay quickly and dudes would actually have to do stuff on the island, instead of just grief and fast travel in every 3 days... (also another reason to disable fast travel between servers. let alone be able to select anywhere as a home server.) 

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2 minutes ago, Bloody Blackjack said:

if there is a repair building to negate the damage, that would actually be perfect, thing will autodecay quickly and dudes would actually have to do stuff on the island, instead of just grief and fast travel in every 3 days... (also another reason to disable fast travel between servers. let alone be able to select anywhere as a home server.) 

I agree, and make the damage repaired to be equal to decay damage, not to make it op for anti raid defense.

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Just now, gnihar said:

I agree, and make the damage repaired to be equal to decay damage, not to make it op for anti raid defense.

I would assume that repair would not rigger on anything recently damaged, for whatever time. Therefore not raid defense at all. And it would only need to tick repair at the same interval as decay. Once an hour tick 100 damage repair 100 damage.

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Personally, I would love to see the option of choosing what objects and structures to repair.  It would be nice to be able to repair the buildings of allies who are built nearby.  If they're building that close, then its beneficial to both, similar to how your crew and animals can feed from an ally's mess table and feeding trough.  But the one option I'd love to see, is being able to repair boats with these buildings, and choosing whether to repair company-only, company and allies, or all boats.  I like to run trade posts, and having a complementary repair dock for visitors is an idea I'd be able to stand behind.

 

But, seeing as how this is the first implementation of the repair building, I'm going to assume it'll only work for your own structures, not boats, and probably be quite limited in range.

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Just now, ikarirain said:

Personally, I would love to see the option of choosing what objects and structures to repair.  It would be nice to be able to repair the buildings of allies who are built nearby.  If they're building that close, then its beneficial to both, similar to how your crew and animals can feed from an ally's mess table and feeding trough.  But the one option I'd love to see, is being able to repair boats with these buildings, and choosing whether to repair company-only, company and allies, or all boats.  I like to run trade posts, and having a complementary repair dock for visitors is an idea I'd be able to stand behind.

 

But, seeing as how this is the first implementation of the repair building, I'm going to assume it'll only work for your own structures, not boats, and probably be quite limited in range.

On that note, i would love to see my puckle guns have more targeting options like: target ally, and target company members under rank x . And choose do not feed allies, and such. because feeding peoples AI is annoying AF and i dont necessarily want allies and company members able to walk freely around my stuff. 

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29 minutes ago, ikarirain said:

But, seeing as how this is the first implementation of the repair building, I'm going to assume it'll only work for your own structures, not boats, and probably be quite limited in range.

 it will likely be a connected structures repair, so anything not connected to the repair box will decay.

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3 minutes ago, microphobe said:

 it will likely be a connected structures repair, so anything not connected to the repair box will decay.

It would be interesting if they did that, and I'd be all for it since my constructions basically always stay connected (I'd only need one repair building), but... It would be the first implementation of that kind of mechanic, where an object that affects others does its work based on building snap points.  They're far more likely to base it off of the mechanics they already have with the mess hall, feeding trough, and ship resource box, where each one has a limited range of influence.  Don't get me wrong though.  While the circumstances don't really favor it, I would far more prefer your version.  For people like me, it would be far more efficient to only need one building.

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6 minutes ago, ikarirain said:

It would be interesting if they did that, and I'd be all for it since my constructions basically always stay connected (I'd only need one repair building), but... It would be the first implementation of that kind of mechanic, where an object that affects others does its work based on building snap points.  They're far more likely to base it off of the mechanics they already have with the mess hall, feeding trough, and ship resource box, where each one has a limited range of influence.  Don't get me wrong though.  While the circumstances don't really favor it, I would far more prefer your version.  For people like me, it would be far more efficient to only need one building.

I agree they usually go the easier option but if people can place a repair box in the middle of a field of pillars then its not going to fix the problem in any way.

I'm sure they would have thought about it in one of their meetings.

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3 hours ago, Talono said:

Yes, all islands lawless please, no decay, no claim flags and no raid time windows amd war token crap = everyone happy

 

Meh, im curious to see how the war token crap works. I like it already a lot because it completely shafts the chinese raid times on NA PvP lol at least now if your gonna get raided, you'll be online for it, so the super cool bases you build can actually be defended and you have a chance of getting a ship out for ship pvp in defense of your place.

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Posted (edited)

Like youreselves, I am more interested in whats going to become of this mechanic than the initial wipe, I mean either way I will adapt but the problem now is, the bigger your base, the more expensive the upkeep will be, probably much more expensive than some pillar/foundation spam.  Why do I like big enclosers ? Well we have breeding, I will need space to breed and i'm a bit of a fanatic where I want a male and fem for each type and then the specialised creatures like bears, elephants and giraffes etc.

This new decay mechanic will certainly prompt more people living off boats but I guess it beats a tone of ugly thatch huts all over the place. This is from a PvE mindset however.

Edited by KarmaComa

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, microphobe said:

 it will likely be a connected structures repair, so anything not connected to the repair box will decay.

I would prefer a dome or area of effect for pvp lawless, for we are talking pvp lawless here. In some areas you can block mortar spam by your own spam and effectively make a hell more difficult for lawless mortaring to enemy, so the only option for them -other than deleting 4-5 foundations to place mortar tower-  would be to bear cannon or barrel against AI defense or active player defense. Connected repair box would help little to that problem. And for troll foundation spam, trolls don't tend to maintain their spam, and without box it would decay anyway, so everyone happy.

Edited by gnihar

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3 hours ago, microphobe said:

I agree they usually go the easier option but if people can place a repair box in the middle of a field of pillars then its not going to fix the problem in any way.

I'm sure they would have thought about it in one of their meetings.

If its a repair box that blocks other building in it and repairs your stuff then pillars want be needed islands will just be filled with these boxes{basically a flag} They have a hard balance that im not sure any game has found a formula to yet.

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6 hours ago, Yomaz said:

If its a repair box that blocks other building in it and repairs your stuff then pillars want be needed islands will just be filled with these boxes{basically a flag} They have a hard balance that im not sure any game has found a formula to yet.

I don't think we need to worry about the repair building preventing others from building within its range, otherwise it'd be no different from a claim flag with upkeep.  It would be almost identical to the tax bank, and there'd be no point in two structures performing the exact same function.

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im almost certain lawless is gonna be the go to spots for instant pvp, considering all the new rules planned. i'm excited. 

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