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Daemon Cross

What will it take ?

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 Hey I’ve noticed that topics aren’t popping up all the time and looking at steamcharts.com for atlas I can see why, the player base has dropped by more then half. Now I’m seeing threads about server wipes, upkeep on claim flags and general post about known bugs.  So I am wondering what will be the last straw for everyone else ? 

We’ve all dealt with the claim issue, the tames being lost, ships being sunk, exploits being used, server lag and everything else that comes along with early access games but we’ve held strong and kept playing the game.  So with the latest news of a possible server wipe and complete restart I’m not sure if I want to go through all of it again especially if there is another chance of another server wipe.

  I mean with the player base dropping by over half and the claim timers expiring within a day or two, finding land shouldn’t be a problem but what if you do and the server wipe does happen and the whole process starts over.  I know companies who were 500 strong are now half that if not less, small companies have strived it seems along with the solo players such as myself but when I sail around the seas and see base after base full of ships it makes you wonder how many of the people who built all that are still playing?

  Just trying to get some input from the rest of you, I know the thoughts on my mind are if a server wipe happens then I want temperate, tundra or tropic area for a new start but then I think about the people who don’t work and will have first dibs on what they want and everyone else will be back looking for land again.  I mean seriously for those of us who’ve dealt with the game issues this far, losing everything and starting over isn’t really working and for anyone who says it is then by all means, meet me in game and transfer everything to me and see if you really want to start over with nothing.  I know I don’t, and those they say it won’t be a bad thing then you haven’t had to deal with starting over and having nothing again or you’ve never had nothing to begin with. If I’m wrong then prove it

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It's early access. All of the problems have been, for the most part, within the realm of what I expected.

I think that a lot of people were expecting a reskin of Ark and none of the problems already solved there. Or basically failed to understand early access ment beta.

A lot of the hate for the devs have been folks upset that they were sticking with the development schedule and not focusing on their pet peeve.

They can wipe if necessary, I'll be here. As long as it's better afterwards. They can wipe in the future if they have to. I'll still be here. It was two years till the game is actually scheduled for release. I expect it will be a very different game by then. 

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I agree with Capt Trenchard, the game is in EA, I haven’t seen anything yet that was a final straw, or in fact a fifth or tenth straw. So far the game has been great. Some minor challenges here and there, but overall they haven’t been earth shattering.

That being said, I’m not sure if they wipe the servers I’d be happy, we’ve done a lot of work so far, and I don’t think a wipe will fix much, that can’t be fixed another way.

 

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Well for me I'm already starting to get bored, I'm hitting that brick wall where I've done most things and its getting repetitive.

I feel there isn't enough content in the game right now. You can build, you can do maps but they're all basically the same thing.

There needs to be more content like cosmetics, get a player market up and running but there's nothing like that

I certainly don't get the same enjoyment like i did a few weeks ago, I'm slowly getting bored. I get why people have left the game, i really do.

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The thing for me is that I haven’t ever played a game that didn’t require patches so in sense they have all been early access and the players have pointed out the issues and most were fixed while the players continued to play. I’ve never had to deal with a server wipe and I really enjoy the game as a solo player. Unlike DannyUK I’ve not got to experience much of the game, I’ve managed to do the FOY once before the last patch and dealt with all the flaws of the game but I worked on my base, ships and tames while I waited for the other issues got resolved. A server wipe would really not fix anything if you ask me, your still going to fight with land claims, your still going to have abandoned ships and until the rest of the issues have been worked out then you still have those to contend with. The server wipe will only be a fresh start for everyone but after awhile you’ll have the same results. They can fix the issues in the game now just as they would if they would do a server wipe and fix them later. 

The server wipe will cost players who’ve been here from the beginning everything and give new players a chance at having land. I can’t see how that can be justified, they need to just fix the claim system by limiting claims per account and not by region. That gives new players the same opportunities and leaves existing players with what they have

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I fully expect a wipe and have no problems with that. What will it take for me to stop playing? When I stop having fun playing it.

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A paid expansion would end it for me. As I have no intention of giving anymore money, and no one would play vanilla

 

Edit: Us 5 and maybe a couple more are the only ones posting in PvE. Except for the occasional exploit complaint.

Edited by Crete21

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1 hour ago, Daemon Cross said:

Now I’m seeing threads about server wipes, upkeep on claim flags and general post about known bugs.

Not seeing the down side of server wipes (having been through a few over the years, they don't cause a mass exodus of players like the Chicken Littles are claiming it will).

Depending on how they handle the upkeep for claim flags, I see this as being something that's sorely and desperately needed.

The bugs will be fixed (mostly) as time passes.

 

The biggest issue I'm seeing is the lack of action taken against griefers and exploiters.  The former are easy to track down since their tactics often involve placing pillars or ships to block other players.  Those items have trackable IDs with them, so it's not difficult to see who is doing it.  What's more concerning is their stance on this.  They've basically said "We don't care that it's happening right now, we're looking for ways to stop it in a future patch".  The fix won't matter if you don't take care of the people that are currently playing.

While I expect some level of issues due to EA, letting griefers and exploiters run free is never defensible.

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You sound like a bunch of chickens cackling in here.

They are not wiping anything.

If they cant figure out how to do it in game settings then a wipe will do no good.

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I guess that depends on the person who’s counting, we all have our limits and expectations of anything we do, gaming is no different, we’ve all played other games and when we had enough of the it we’ve moved for whatever reason to the next, otherwise we wouldn’t be having these little chats of ours . I come from WoW, Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 1 & 2, Neverwinter Knights and a few others( well I’m 43 and been gaming since I was 15) there are a lot of others.  My point being that we ended up here and most of us who still remain are going to be around for awhile regardless of what happens or doesn’t happen but I was only trying to get everyone elses input on what does it take for you to say that’s enough.

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37 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

what does it take for you to say that’s enough

The fastest way to make me walk away from a game is to do nothing about griefing and exploiting.  The fact that they've officially stated, through implication, that they don't care about griefers and exploiters at this time is enough for me to not touch the official servers for now.  Why would I want to when I know that griefers have the devs' blessing to be dickholes?  Luckily there are some great unofficial servers out there.

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i can  deal with the problems,  its early access.  everyone should understand what this means going into the game

what bothers me is the lack of support, and lack of communication 

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2 hours ago, war machine said:

i can  deal with the problems,  its early access.  everyone should understand what this means going into the game

what bothers me is the lack of support, and lack of communication 

There's plenty of support and communication. Jon the official discord. Forums are a thing of the past.

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12 minutes ago, Mythathos said:

There's plenty of support and communication. Jon the official discord. Forums are a thing of the past.

For you maybe, let Jon keep his Discord.

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6 hours ago, CazzT said:

The fastest way to make me walk away from a game is to do nothing about griefing and exploiting.  The fact that they've officially stated, through implication, that they don't care about griefers and exploiters at this time is enough for me to not touch the official servers for now.  Why would I want to when I know that griefers have the devs' blessing to be dickholes?  Luckily there are some great unofficial servers out there.

Not really sure what you mean by "do nothing about greifing and exploiting"? I have played since release and seen them implement a lot of fixes against griefing and exploiting. Perhaps not as fast as you would like? Or do you mean that they dont ban as much as you like or give stuff back as much as you like? 

One thing I don´t get is ppl writing tickets about lost animals and stuff bugging out when it clearly states they wont adress those tickets right now(Last time I checked). Just write about it in bug section. Hopefully so that they can fix it for everyone in the future(Its EA yet). I dont get why ppl write about bugs in steam threads and in general discussion without making a thread in bug section about it as well.

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I don’t get why people throw its EA in defense of everything that gets pointed out, can anyone name a mmo that has never received a patch? All games get released with the intention that it will run fine but with the knowledge that it hasn’t been tested on every system and with mass amounts of people. Exploits get exposed and they have to release patches, glitches get found and they release patches, I know of no game that in reality wasn’t a early release when it was released. Only now they have a term for it to soften the blow of the bugs that are found.  Which most of us are fine with as long as it’s not a game breaker, tames get lost so we get more, ships get sunk and we build more but when claims get stolen it’s very hard to find more

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3 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

I don’t get why people throw its EA in defense of everything that gets pointed out, can anyone name a mmo that has never received a patch? All games get released with the intention that it will run fine but with the knowledge that it hasn’t been tested on every system and with mass amounts of people. Exploits get exposed and they have to release patches, glitches get found and they release patches, I know of no game that in reality wasn’t a early release when it was released. Only now they have a term for it to soften the blow of the bugs that are found.  Which most of us are fine with as long as it’s not a game breaker, tames get lost so we get more, ships get sunk and we build more but when claims get stolen it’s very hard to find more

Isn't that exactly what ppl who "throw its EA in defence" is trying to say? That problems like bugs, exploits and balance issues is expected and most likely be solved in time, maybe just not this exact instant. I haven't seen anyone saying its EA and that everthing should be as it should be until release. 

For me personally I think I will quit when it isn't any fun no more, most likely when I got everything I want and there isn't much else to do beside manage everything. If they wipe I might give up since I mostly play solo and have built everything I now got from a small 3x3 floored sized sand dot outside an desert Island..  or join a company and start over.

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13 hours ago, CazzT said:

The fastest way to make me walk away from a game is to do nothing about griefing and exploiting.  The fact that they've officially stated, through implication, that they don't care about griefers and exploiters at this time is enough for me to not touch the official servers for now.  Why would I want to when I know that griefers have the devs' blessing to be <snip>?  Luckily there are some great unofficial servers out there.

This.

Any other game I'd have walked away but I've been having a ton of fun on official (perhaps mainly due to the group I'm playing with) but every time I zone in to our "grief area" that still has a "wall" of rafts my enthusiasm for the game and company behind this takes another hit. 

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12 hours ago, NiHiL said:

Not really sure what you mean by "do nothing about greifing and exploiting"? I have played since release and seen them implement a lot of fixes against griefing and exploiting.

They take no action against those griefing and exploiting.  What's worse, they have officially said that they don't really care that people are currently doing this, which is turning people away from the game and generating bad reviews in the gaming community, in favor of working on fixing the things that let them grief and exploit.  There are two problems with this.

1) It does nothing positive for the people currently playing the game, which results in bad press/rep for the game and the devs.  And it also makes people want to leave, which they are.  Lots of reasons for people leaving, but from what I've seen, it's lots of small things piled on top of each other, and almost always includes griefing and/or exploiting as one of the reasons.

2) They can do both but are making excuses for not.  I understand financial limitations.  But if you don't invest in your product, it will not succeed.  They need to invest in at least one person to investigate these reports (which are not exactly difficult to investigate and I would be happy to do that if I were paid to do so).  The evidence isn't exactly lacking, either.  But the official statement from Jat tells griefers and exploiters that they have a free pass to do what they do because the devs will do nothing to punish their actions and behavior.

14 hours ago, NiHiL said:

Perhaps not as fast as you would like? Or do you mean that they dont ban as much as you like or give stuff back as much as you like?

They don't ban at all.  They take no action at all against griefers and exploiters.  As much as I'd like?  Any at all would be an improvement.

14 hours ago, NiHiL said:

One thing I don´t get is ppl writing tickets about lost animals and stuff bugging out when it clearly states they wont adress those tickets right now(Last time I checked). Just write about it in bug section. Hopefully so that they can fix it for everyone in the future(Its EA yet). I dont get why ppl write about bugs in steam threads and in general discussion without making a thread in bug section about it as well.

This we can certainly agree on.  It sucks losing something to a bug.  And I very rarely use this as a defense, but it's Early Access.  Some issues, specifically bugs, are and should be expected.  Especially with this company.  Instead of lamenting the loss, post about it in the bug section so it can get fixed.  No one expects you (general term) to not be upset or annoyed that you lost something due to a bug.  But bugs happen in EA.  Especially this early on.

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Quote

They take no action against those griefing and exploiting.  What's worse, they have officially said that they don't really care that people are currently doing this, which is turning people away from the game and generating bad reviews in the gaming community, in favor of working on fixing the things that let them grief and exploit.

 - Army of the Damned Ships will no longer initially aggro to drydocked or anchored ships, unless fired upon by them or already targeting them.

- Shipyards are now properly tagged on the server side, so enemy players will not be able to demo them unless the decay timer has truly hit 0 on the server.

- Changed damage type on repair hammer to 0 against players, human npcs, and creatures to stop pvp on pve servers, not used as a weapon on pvp.

- Melee weapons are now temporarily ineffective against ship planks. Later this will be changed so that it will only be ineffective against anchored ship planks.

- Fixed a building exploit which allowed you to float structures and fortify walls with floors.

- Fixed an exploit which allowed you to gain massive height when using the zipline.

- Fixed an exploit with Prying Eyes.

- Autolock all structures in 'PvE only' with an inventory, except campfires and similar structures which can be placed without a claimflag.

- Fixed a bug which prevented admins from accessing remote inventories with the F key when changing group ranks.

- Fixed an exploit with mortars.

- Fixed game exploits.

- Enabled BattlEye Anti Cheat on all Official Servers. Please restart your Steam Clients and make sure to install BattlEye in order to play on our Official Network. Unofficial Networks can still play without BattlEye, and players can right-click the title in their Steam Library and play without the anti-cheat. For those of you who have made custom shortcuts, please update the executable to this:

- Fixed an exploit which allowed cannons on cargo carts to shoot through walls.
- Additional backend infrastructure for anti-cheat and hack detection.

- Fixed multiple exploits which allowed movement of excessively encumbered players through various gameplay mechanics.
- Disabled non allied players and creatures basing on anchored or docked ships which can be toggled with a server-setting on PVE servers with the in Game.ini - set bPvEAllowNonAlignedShipBasing=true If you want to allow non allies to be able to be on your ship.
- Disabled feats when encumbered.

- Fixed players being able to bola certain alpha creatures (now you cannot.)

- Fixed ability of players to feed through walls of taming pens and not get attacked.

- Removed Elephant having weight reduction for Wood, as this was never an intended mechanic and resulted in players being able to get around ship weight restrictions. Accordingly, we'll be re-balancing the base weight of tamed creatures early next week.

- Fixed Lucky Loader feat ability to not be used whilst prone (as you cannot reload prone.)

- Fixed players not getting aggro when attacking whilst based on a ship.

- Fixed Pillars being build-able on PVE islands.

- Stop Allies being able to Capture other Allied territories.

- Ships can only receive damage from collision encounters with other ships if they're of the same or a greater weight class (deals with cheesy cheap ramshackle builds to sink bigger boats).

- Fixed a bug which allowed players to have more beds on their boat than permitted, this is a retroactive fix.

- Fixed a bug which allowed players to place multiple steering wheels on boats.
- Fixed a bug which allowed players to bypass the Ship Sail Unit Limit. This is a retroactive fix.

- Fixed an exploit with Grapeshot that allowed it to be shot rapidly.

- Climbing on other boat's ladders now disabled in PvE if the ship is anchored.

- Fixed an exploit related to structures.

- Fixed a case which allowed players to clip and stick themselves inside the boat's hull.
- Protected against players accessing inventories from outside ships via clipping into boats.

- Fixed an exploit which allowed players to stall out servers.

- Added extra protection to inventories to fix and prevent players from bypassing pin codes.

- Added extra server-side protection to remote inventories to resolve an exploit

- Fixed an exploit which allowed players to place multiple claim flags at once.

- On PvE specifically, Ship of the Damned should not attack anchored ships that have not fired upon them.

- Patched out some .ini changes which allowed people to remove certain visual effects granting them an unfair advantage in PvP.

- Fully Anchored Boats now have a buff which provides a bonus 300% structure resistance.

 

 

I consider these to be more or less actions against exploits and griefing, and I guess it is more if I research more. But I assume you are talking about action against persons who is using exploits and griefing? Also, can you please send a link or tell me where I can read that they officially say they don't really care that ppl do this. I have read that they focus on fixing exploits in game as a whole rather then fixing individual situations where exploits have been used.

On banning I´ve seen som list with bans and its not as many steam id on it as people would like but there have been bans. Otherwise this was the only thing I found and it was connected to the amdin account accident. -"The damage done was caused by a technical exploit which we have now protected against, no administrator accounts were compromised in this situation," a Grapeshot Games admin said on the game's forum. "Multiple accounts have been banned in relation to this."

But then I only spent a few seconds on google.

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1 hour ago, NiHiL said:

 - Army of the Damned Ships will no longer initially aggro to drydocked or anchored ships, unless fired upon by them or already targeting them.

- Shipyards are now properly tagged on the server side, so enemy players will not be able to demo them unless the decay timer has truly hit 0 on the server.

- Changed damage type on repair hammer to 0 against players, human npcs, and creatures to stop pvp on pve servers, not used as a weapon on pvp.

- Melee weapons are now temporarily ineffective against ship planks. Later this will be changed so that it will only be ineffective against anchored ship planks.

- Fixed a building exploit which allowed you to float structures and fortify walls with floors.

- Fixed an exploit which allowed you to gain massive height when using the zipline.

- Fixed an exploit with Prying Eyes.

- Autolock all structures in 'PvE only' with an inventory, except campfires and similar structures which can be placed without a claimflag.

- Fixed a bug which prevented admins from accessing remote inventories with the F key when changing group ranks.

- Fixed an exploit with mortars.

- Fixed game exploits.

- Enabled BattlEye Anti Cheat on all Official Servers. Please restart your Steam Clients and make sure to install BattlEye in order to play on our Official Network. Unofficial Networks can still play without BattlEye, and players can right-click the title in their Steam Library and play without the anti-cheat. For those of you who have made custom shortcuts, please update the executable to this:

- Fixed an exploit which allowed cannons on cargo carts to shoot through walls.
- Additional backend infrastructure for anti-cheat and hack detection.

- Fixed multiple exploits which allowed movement of excessively encumbered players through various gameplay mechanics.
- Disabled non allied players and creatures basing on anchored or docked ships which can be toggled with a server-setting on PVE servers with the in Game.ini - set bPvEAllowNonAlignedShipBasing=true If you want to allow non allies to be able to be on your ship.
- Disabled feats when encumbered.

- Fixed players being able to bola certain alpha creatures (now you cannot.)

- Fixed ability of players to feed through walls of taming pens and not get attacked.

- Removed Elephant having weight reduction for Wood, as this was never an intended mechanic and resulted in players being able to get around ship weight restrictions. Accordingly, we'll be re-balancing the base weight of tamed creatures early next week.

- Fixed Lucky Loader feat ability to not be used whilst prone (as you cannot reload prone.)

- Fixed players not getting aggro when attacking whilst based on a ship.

- Fixed Pillars being build-able on PVE islands.

- Stop Allies being able to Capture other Allied territories.

- Ships can only receive damage from collision encounters with other ships if they're of the same or a greater weight class (deals with cheesy cheap ramshackle builds to sink bigger boats).

- Fixed a bug which allowed players to have more beds on their boat than permitted, this is a retroactive fix.

- Fixed a bug which allowed players to place multiple steering wheels on boats.
- Fixed a bug which allowed players to bypass the Ship Sail Unit Limit. This is a retroactive fix.

- Fixed an exploit with Grapeshot that allowed it to be shot rapidly.

- Climbing on other boat's ladders now disabled in PvE if the ship is anchored.

- Fixed an exploit related to structures.

- Fixed a case which allowed players to clip and stick themselves inside the boat's hull.
- Protected against players accessing inventories from outside ships via clipping into boats.

- Fixed an exploit which allowed players to stall out servers.

- Added extra protection to inventories to fix and prevent players from bypassing pin codes.

- Added extra server-side protection to remote inventories to resolve an exploit

- Fixed an exploit which allowed players to place multiple claim flags at once.

- On PvE specifically, Ship of the Damned should not attack anchored ships that have not fired upon them.

- Patched out some .ini changes which allowed people to remove certain visual effects granting them an unfair advantage in PvP.

- Fully Anchored Boats now have a buff which provides a bonus 300% structure resistance.

 

 

I consider these to be more or less actions against exploits and griefing, and I guess it is more if I research more. But I assume you are talking about action against persons who is using exploits and griefing? Also, can you please send a link or tell me where I can read that they officially say they don't really care that ppl do this. I have read that they focus on fixing exploits in game as a whole rather then fixing individual situations where exploits have been used.

On banning I´ve seen som list with bans and its not as many steam id on it as people would like but there have been bans. Otherwise this was the only thing I found and it was connected to the amdin account accident. -"The damage done was caused by a technical exploit which we have now protected against, no administrator accounts were compromised in this situation," a Grapeshot Games admin said on the game's forum. "Multiple accounts have been banned in relation to this."

But then I only spent a few seconds on google.

Fixing the manner in which one can grief is not taking action against the griefing. When people knowing exploit a mechanic or intentional screw with others games, to simply force the to devise a new method is not going to deter anyone from this toxic playstyle.

Edited by Indywoodtiger
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1 hour ago, Indywoodtiger said:

Fixing the manner in which one can grief is not taking action against the griefing. When people knowing exploit a mechanic or intentional screw with others games, to simply force the to devise a new method is not going to deter anyone from this toxic playstyle.

One of the major points of early access is to fix bugs and exploits players take advantage of.  They do ban players if proper proof is provided. There is a ban list.

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Having been a moderator on an unofficial server for another (similar) game, I can say with certainty that it doesn't take days, especially not weeks, to determine if someone cheating and/or griefing.  This is something I've never been able to accept about game companies that have multiplayer games.  "We have to investigate the issue" is acceptable.  The majority of investigations taking days/weeks is not.  Some outlier cases, sure, but far too often it's the norm.  If it takes your company more than a day, two tops, to investigate a case of griefing, you've got problems with the process/tools you're using.

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the biggest mistake they made was releasing server files and allowing players to host ,

 

supposed to be a giant mmo , what did they think was going to happen to official  servers when they allowed this . 

 

official server have what 15 max per gird now with most just logging in to refresh timers feed and pay crew 

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