The Changes To Stone Are Good For PVP

[Bullet Force 151]

I see there is a lot of bickering and complaining about the recent changes to the stone tier with regards to costs and damage taken and there a lot of folks extremely angry at the devs for the changes. I am here to say that I think these are good changes that were needed for PVP and which would have had to been done at some point in the future anyhow in order to properly balance the game.

Stone structures were ridiculously easy to build and spam and for a high end tier they sure didn't feel like it in costs and effort required to manufacture. As a result of this it was very easy to create giant monolithic stone bases in a very short order that effectively made raiding both pointless and a giant waste of time and materials. It was far better to just sink all the enemies ships and then move onto the next target/port rather then spend several hours digging through honeycombed bases only to discover that everything inside had been dropped.

While I think the changes are for the better and will open the game up to more PVP I do think the cost of stone vs wood structures and their related durability needs to be looked at. It does seem like wood is now too cost effective vs stone. I would also recommend that there be a structure wipe for the sake of balance because those that already have huge stone bases will profit immensely from this patch vs those that do not.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Bullet Force

[Sinister 5]

The increased dmg is fine but making stonestructures impossible to be build in tundra is just stupid. People will start to spam even more sloops in the freeports to deliver sap to the tundra and other places where there is none.

[Knivet 52]

Well, under a week ago(live on twitch), the devs told us that they would always favor the person being raided, that it should be hard for someone to raid other people. 

 

Right now, you can raid anyone with a couple of grenades or a simple canon, dont take long at all. 

And with the resource changes to the stone wall, it will be imposible to even feel a slightly safe over a night anymore. Yeah, you could farm a day to get a decent house that would take 4 min to crack open.. 

I feel like the devs just talk and dont stand for what they are saying!

[Zlax 41]

Except its not good for pvp, because all that will happen now is that you will log on dead and can only spawn in a freeport because someone offlined you and broke in in 20 minutes flat and despawned everything. Think thats gonna keep people playing?!

[Sinister 5]

3 minutes ago, Zlax said:

Except its not good for pvp, because all that will happen now is that you will log on dead and can only spawn in a freeport because someone offlined you and broke in in 20 minutes flat and despawned everything. Think thats gonna keep people playing?!

They have to introduce raidtimers like you got them in eve online so you cant get offlined/rekt when only 1 is online

 

[Astiria 12]

1 minute ago, Sinister said:

They have to introduce raidtimers like you got them in eve online so you cant get offlined/rekt when only 1 is online

 

With their track record so far, I wouldn`t count on them to not screw this up.

As for the OP, no, its not a good change in the way it was done. First, not everything is about PVP, even if you would like to, second, decrease durability, fine, increase costs, meh but ok, do both is overkill. From a pure pvp point, decreasing the durability of stone would have been enough without screwing the pve players over. 

[tateybread 59]

Quote

Stone structures were ridiculously easy to build and spam

And yet they aren't wiping, so if you got dug-in before the patch... GG

[kampfer91 58]

So now it is more easier to raid people with , especially offline raid , what so good about PVP .

And it totally ruin PVE players .

[Vloshko 16]

26 minutes ago, Bullet Force said:

I see there is a lot of bickering and complaining about the recent changes to the stone tier with regards to costs and damage taken and there a lot of folks extremely angry at the devs for the changes. I am here to say that I think these are good changes that were needed for PVP and which would have had to been done at some point in the future anyhow in order to properly balance the game.

Stone structures were ridiculously easy to build and spam and for a high end tier they sure didn't feel like it in costs and effort required to manufacture. As a result of this it was very easy to create giant monolithic stone bases in a very short order that effectively made raiding both pointless and a giant waste of time and materials. It was far better to just sink all the enemies ships and then move onto the next target/port rather then spend several hours digging through honeycombed bases only to discover that everything inside had been dropped.

While I think the changes are for the better and will open the game up to more PVP I do think the cost of stone vs wood structures and their related durability needs to be looked at. It does seem like wood is now too cost effective vs stone. I would also recommend that there be a structure wipe for the sake of balance because those that already have huge stone bases will profit immensely from this patch vs those that do not.

Says the player who thinks static structures increase server ping... Making the change to stone is lazy design. They should have added another tier of defense. Now we are going to see 15x wood and thatch honeycomb buffers around stone.

 

Also this fucks PvE players, not that I am one, but sap islands can just be walled off and no way to take down those walls on PvE if the players who own it are active.

I mean you could take a bear to freeports, but then you have to establish a production line using ramshackle sloops and it becomes tedious

Edited January 24, 2019 by Vloshko

[Aesorn 9]

15 minutes ago, Knivet said:

Well, under a week ago(live on twitch), the devs told us that they would always favor the person being raided, that it should be hard for someone to raid other people. 

 

Right now, you can raid anyone with a couple of grenades or a simple canon, dont take long at all. 

And with the resource changes to the stone wall, it will be imposible to even feel a slightly safe over a night anymore. Yeah, you could farm a day to get a decent house that would take 4 min to crack open.. 

I feel like the devs just talk and dont stand for what they are saying!

^This exactly,  are the devs just straight up liars or ignorant?  It's hard to tell right now, this change favors attackers so heavily its crazy.... This dev team is a joke honestly, I should of known this already by the tweaker they had on stream who seemed to be a very important developer of the features and systems in the game.... 

[Daish 24]

lower the health of stone buildings then and add metal buildings 

there fucking fixed without pissing off the remaining player base 

[BlackFlint 41]

You mix two different problems and also adding more disbalanced things never balances the whole game world.

[Ban Tier 29]

I would agree to the OP if there would be any sort of offline raid protection. It is really not funny to log back into the game after a full workday just to see all your stuff was destroyed by offline raiders.

Until Grapeshot offers a suitable offline protection, we need to make it extremly difficult for offline-raider to destroy all property of a company. If they do not care here, the game will become a haven for griefers and all player, who are interested in some sort of "friendly" player interaction (trade or FAIR battles) will move on.

[Coggage 239]

Good for PvP?  More like it will ruin it.  A defensible base seems impossible now when walls can be so easily smashed.

[Zlax 41]

1 hour ago, Sinister said:

They have to introduce raidtimers like you got them in eve online so you cant get offlined/rekt when only 1 is online

 

OR they could have just left it as it was?! Imagine that! It was actually pretty damn perfect, if you wanted to raid you would have to actually put in some time and effort (which the other part obviously would have done aswell to build the stuff in the first place). The current system will make people leave in droves, small tribes that play off hours for main europe for instance will be able to travel around cleaning out damn never everyone they want on weekdays, since there are zero counters atm.

 

The reason I think people will be leaving, is that before you actually had a chance to go somewhere and rebuild, do a bit of talking with the natives would get you a claim or two to settle on, and stone actually provided adequate defence so you wouldnt lose your shit to offlining over night.
Now stone is so expensive that NOONE can rebuild in stone when wiped, its simply not feasable, so now you could log on to your base being offline raided by the local wildlife even, its such a stupid change on so many levels that its not even funny.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Zlax

[Sinister 5]

1 minute ago, Zlax said:

OR they could have just left it as it was?! Imagine that! It was actually pretty damn perfect, if you wanted to raid you would have to actually put in some time and effort (which the other part obviously would have done aswell to build the stuff in the first place). The current system will make people leave in droves, small tribes that play off hours for main europe for instance will be able to travel around cleaning out damn never everyone they want on weekdays, since there are zero counters atm.

I used to play Eve online and took part in Raids there, the company you attack sets a time window where they like to be attacked and you prepare yourself the best to surpas their defense. Its actually the only fair pvp in games like this bcs you wont get rekt offline unless your company get so inactive that you cant defend yourself in the desired raid timewindow.

Even w/o the recent changes you could have been raided offline super easy by a large group  so this isnt a valid contention. 

Furthermore there is a shitload of mod with exactly this mechanic and they are not super buggy so why cant the offical dev introduce a system like that=?? Simply because they dont care or are to lazy to do so.

[Zlax 41]

1 minute ago, Sinister said:

I used to play Eve online and took part in Raids there, the company you attack sets a time window where they like to be attacked and you prepare yourself the best to surpas their defense. Its actually the only fair pvp in games like this bcs you wont get rekt offline unless your company get so inactive that you cant defend yourself in the desired raid timewindow.

Even w/o the recent changes you could have been raided offline super easy by a large group  so this isnt a valid contention. 

Furthermore there is a shitload of mod with exactly this mechanic and they are not super buggy so why cant the offical dev introduce a system like that=?? Simply because they dont care or are to lazy to do so.

Ofcourse its a valid concern, first of all we have no raid protection and there is no indication that that will ever happen (ARK never got one) and secondly there is a huge difference between 30+ guys with multiply bears and cannons and hundreds of cannon balls and 2 guys on a sloop with a bear and 30 cannon balls ...

[Ellentro 107]

Stone structures needed to be easier to break into. I can agree with that. Stone structures were a bit on the cheap side for how effective they were. Can agree with that.

 

However a crafting cost increase *and* an effectiveness nerf is far too much to do in one patch. It now takes easily triple the effort to craft an item that is almost 33% as effective meaning that the effective net nerf was so incredibly high that defense, something that was already struggling to keep ahead of the offensive portion of the game, even harder. 

 

Not to mention that stone structures are now essentially impossible to build for a large section of the population. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Ellentro

[Implicitlee 186]

1 hour ago, Bullet Force said:

I see there is a lot of bickering and complaining about the recent changes to the stone tier with regards to costs and damage taken and there a lot of folks extremely angry at the devs for the changes. I am here to say that I think these are good changes that were needed for PVP and which would have had to been done at some point in the future anyhow in order to properly balance the game.

Stone structures were ridiculously easy to build and spam and for a high end tier they sure didn't feel like it in costs and effort required to manufacture. As a result of this it was very easy to create giant monolithic stone bases in a very short order that effectively made raiding both pointless and a giant waste of time and materials. It was far better to just sink all the enemies ships and then move onto the next target/port rather then spend several hours digging through honeycombed bases only to discover that everything inside had been dropped.

While I think the changes are for the better and will open the game up to more PVP I do think the cost of stone vs wood structures and their related durability needs to be looked at. It does seem like wood is now too cost effective vs stone. I would also recommend that there be a structure wipe for the sake of balance because those that already have huge stone bases will profit immensely from this patch vs those that do not.

I have got to stop you, because you clearly didn't think before posting.

 

NO NO NO

What they needed to do was keep stone as it was, and release Metal Structures which is what these are now. The Devs are lazy shits, that have done nothing else except release buggy half hearted shit patch after patch.

[Vaenix 131]

20 minutes ago, Implicitlee said:

I have got to stop you, because you clearly didn't think before posting.

 

NO NO NO

What they needed to do was keep stone as it was, and release Metal Structures which is what these are now. The Devs are lazy shits, that have done nothing else except release buggy half hearted shit patch after patch.

Honestly if they wanted to do this type of change they should've kept stone crafting like it was(maybe cost a bit more of the same mats)  while reducing it's effectiveness like they did.  Then release metal reinforced structures, flat metal doesn't really make sense for the style they are going for.  So stone reinforced with metal and a new model would make sense and then have that cost what the stone structues cost and a bit of metal/paste.  

[Bullet Force 151]

3 hours ago, Coggage said:

Good for PvP?  More like it will ruin it.  A defensible base seems impossible now when walls can be so easily smashed.

No its still very easy to make a defensible base. Pick any tall mountain and you are very safe.

[Zucker 0]

FUCK YOU NOOB, leave to your mod server and build with wood retard, the stone nerf is the worst

Edited January 24, 2019 by Zucker

[Zlax 41]

8 minutes ago, Bullet Force said:

No its still very easy to make a defensible base. Pick any tall mountain and you are very safe.

If you can get there, so can bears with cannons, or any of the other many easy ways to destroy stone now, they went WAY overboard.

[Bullet Force 151]

1 hour ago, Zlax said:

If you can get there, so can bears with cannons, or any of the other many easy ways to destroy stone now, they went WAY overboard.

No bears cannot go up there without first constructing a giant ramp. Not an easy feat.

[Nox 56]

"These changes to PVP really boost the power gap between my megagrind superfriends alliance and anyone not in a zergfest"

 

Fixed that for you