Death should have consequences...

[Incarnate 34]

Death should have consequences...
Currently death has no real consequences other than those that are a result of other consequences. I think death should have character consequences, so that players would generally seek to avoid death, and as is it can even be exploited a good deal because it has no consequences what so ever. If one were to lose a certain amount of maximum hit points per death, either based on a static amount or a percentage based on total amount of hit points, down to a maximum hit point reduction cap, which I think should be no more than 25% of the characters total hit points (based on base amount + hit points gained from level). These should be regainable over the course of time, eating healthy, applying remedies (and possibly magic if implemented) and avoiding conflict - the amount of time should be tweaked to find the appropriate amount and should obviously also be tied to the amount one would lose per death, so one should as a minimum recover a base  amount equivalent to a day per death, or similar. This way, death is taken alot more serious, and won't be exploited, at least not to the degree it is now. This will also be beneficial to taking hunger,  thirst and vitamins seriously, where as now because death has no consequences, it's more of an annoyance than anything else. The consequence of dying could be as much as 5% per death and as little as 0.5%, which will be up to the devs to decide.

To clarify: This would essence be a temporary debuff that last at maximum a day per death, up to certain maximum, which sole depends on how severe the consequences of death is going to be, so these should be tied, which basically is just the debuff being stacked and as such should the recovery time. This is something that characters can recover from, through eating healthy, avoiding conflict and death.

As it currently is, the hunger, thirst and vitamin system is disliked and not even taken serious, because there is no real downside to it, as you can just let your character die and then respawn without any real and lasting detriment to player's character or the player for that matter. This can be improved to a point where it can both a benefit or a detriment to the player's character. So how could it be achieved that the thirst, hunger and lack of vitamins is taken more serious? For one, by introducing a more lasting detriment to the player character if death to the character incurs, for whatever reason, like for instance reducing the maximum number hit points the character has by a certain amount or percent, although still with a maximum reduction that it can be reduced to. The character would be able to regain these by a certain amount/percent per day, where keeping certain vitamin types in the high area would lead to faster recovery, and it could be considered that certain foods would lead to even faster recovery, various remedies could possibly also be considered to add to this effect, including magic if that becomes a thing in the game. Furthermore, the vitamin surplus debuff really needs to be removed, as having a vitamin surplus has realistically never been a thing, because for humans excess vitamins is flushed from the system and does not become absorbed. The maximum hitpoint should also be able to be increased through the same as above, but only to half amount of what it could be reduced with. Actual values will need to be tweaked to find the appropriate amount, but I think the maximum hit point reduction cap should be around 25% of total hit point, and the maximum it can be increased temporarily to should be 12,5%.

Further clarification: The bonus to maximum hitpoints, etc. is the equivalent of a lasting temporary buff that will expire upon death, where this death would put one to 0% in terms of bonus or penalty. It's basically a stackable buff that will stack up to the maximum 12.5%, the increments it will increase with depends on what values the devs decide to go with. However, 2.5% is a fitting number. This is to encourage attempting to stay alive for prolonged periods of time.

A note on wildlife & other issues that needs to be fixed

I will say this though, there are various things that certainly needs to be fixed before implementing this, like wildlife has to be fixed. Because wildlife currently as is - a great threat and would only be intensified if the above is implemented. But why do I say that wildlife is a great threat? The thing is, most of the wildlife that are aggressive by default can out right kill you, especially if you cannot outrun it, you can outrun snakes, but they can torpor you even after you've outrun them, where it will either attempt to still kill you or some other aggressive animal will. The primary issues with hostile wildlife is that they can attack through the mesh of the environment, including buildings and ships, where they should not be able to,  the spawn amount and respawn timers, and that they're way too lethal and you cannot outrun them. Some of the absolute worst in the game currently would be wolves, lions and crocodiles. On the note of crocodiles, they're so bad currently because they can attack characters on smaller ships and can prevent players from getting rid of them, even trying to lure them away from the ship won't work, as they swim faster and only takes 2-3 attacks to outright kill one, they can potentially kill you before you even get a chance to lure them away. And given how respawn mechanics work, it almost litterally impossible to get it away from the ship. So yes, the wildlife is too much of a severe threat and seriously needs to be toned down, especially BEFORE implementing the above. In regards to implementing the above, it also means that bugs, glitches and game imbalances where death can incur needs to be fixed appropriately before implementing the consequences of dying as suggested in this post.

I am interested in knowing your thoughts on this @Jatheish and the community as well. Perhaps others have ideas similar to this or ideas that will support this even further.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Incarnate
Formatting and adding a line. Clarifying something.

[Jaite 36]

um there are consequences to dying but perhaps just not how extreme you personally want it

i suggest running your own private server and making it perma death, there might even be some out there already

[archaegeo 192]

11 minutes ago, Jaite said:

um there are consequences to dying but perhaps just not how extreme you personally want it

i suggest running your own private server and making it perma death, there might even be some out there already

There are zero consequences to dying if you have a bed nearby. It is 9 times out of 10 always beneficial to die to recover food, vitamins, health, etc.

[Incarnate 34]

Just now, Jaite said:

um there are consequences to dying but perhaps just not how extreme you personally want it

i suggest running your own private server and making it perma death, there might even be some out there already

I don't want permadeath, but I do want death to have consequences, because currently as it, it's being exploited, especially on PvP servers.
No there aren't actually lasting consequences of dying, only consequences that are result of something else. What I'm suggesting isn't actually extreme and there are survival games that uses similar mechanics in their core gameplay. Notice I'm also suggesting that you can attain a slight health buff if you avoid conflict while being healthy.  This would impact a lot more on PvP servers, and would impact every company's decision whether to attack or wait until everyone is ready. Furthermore, this also has impact on  how much one side keeps dying, because it would become that much more difficult to stay alive during conflict - which could mean an attacking side would have to pull because they've sustained too many casualties.  Currently the hunger/thirst/vitamin isn't being taken serious, and people are finding it to be annoyance, guess why that is? Because death has no consequences, other than those that are a result of other things. This isn't extreme at all, as those reductions aren't permanent, but they should be there to make death actually mean something and have actual consequences. With the above, hunger, thirst and vitamin system would suddenly be taken a lot more serious and it would also have an impact on PvP servers in regards to various other elements.

I don't know if you play on a PvP server, but I do, guess what tactics are being employed because death has no consequences?

[Goldfish The Builder 105]

Aye it needs consequences for sure, ppl use death to just re-spawn and not have to eat or drink... that is just silly

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

8 minutes ago, Incarnate said:

I don't want permadeath, but I do want death to have consequences, because currently as it, it's being exploited, especially on PvP servers.
No there aren't actually lasting consequences of dying, only consequences that are result of something else. What I'm suggesting isn't actually extreme and there are survival games that uses similar mechanics in their core gameplay. Notice I'm also suggesting that you can attain a slight health buff if you avoid conflict while being healthy.  This would impact a lot more on PvP servers, and would impact every company's decision whether to attack or wait until everyone is ready. Furthermore, this also has impact on  how much one side keeps dying, because it would become that much more difficult to stay alive during conflict - which could mean an attacking side would have to pull because they've sustained too many casualties.  Currently the hunger/thirst/vitamin isn't being taken serious, and people are finding it to be annoyance, guess why that is? Because death has no consequences, other than those that are a result of other things. This isn't extreme at all, as those reductions aren't permanent, but they should be there to make death actually mean something and have actual consequences. With the above, hunger, thirst and vitamin system would suddenly be taken a lot more serious and it would also have an impact on PvP servers in regards to various other elements.

I don't know if you play on a PvP server, but I do, guess what tactics are being employed because death has no consequences?

There is speculation that once the aging mechanic is fully implemented, that dying will cause your character to age faster. Given that the devs have suggested there will be stat nerfs as you age, this could indeed be a consequence. How much of one is open for debate. At the present moment I'd agree that death most often has little consequence. Occasionally one is unable to recover one's gear, but most of the time smart players don't carry much they can't afford to lose.

[Coggage 239]

Death due to the crazy amount of mob spawns is often 5 to 10 times in as many minutes. That's enough to contend with apart from adding penalties as well.

Didn't read the wall of text. You want penalties, I get that just by reading the underlined subheading.

[ReilanT 57]

when Dev have male a real balance, and when with 150 life point we stay alive again a wolf / lion more than 2 seconde with bump and stuck in body, when can speak of death conséquance 

 

[Realist 504]

51 minutes ago, Incarnate said:

Death should have consequences...
Currently death has no real consequences other than those that are a result of other consequences. I think death should have character consequences, so that players would generally seek to avoid death, and as is it can even be exploited a good deal because it has no consequences what so ever. If one were to lose a certain amount of maximum hit points per death, either based on a static amount or a percentage based on total amount of hit points, down to a maximum hit point reduction cap, which I think should be no more than 25% of the characters total hit points (based on base amount + hit points gained from level). These should be regainable over the course of time, eating healthy, applying remedies (and possibly magic if implemented) and avoiding conflict - the amount of time should be tweaked to find the appropriate amount and should obviously also be tied to the amount one would lose per death, so one should as a minimum recover a base  amount equivalent to a day per death, or similar. This way, death is taken alot more serious, and won't be exploited, at least not to the degree it is now. This will also be beneficial to taking hunger,  thirst and vitamins seriously, where as now because death has no consequences, it's more of an annoyance than anything else.

As it currently is, the hunger, thirst and vitamin system is disliked and not even taken serious, because there is no real downside to it, as you can just let your character die and then respawn without any real and lasting detriment to player's character or the player for that matter. This can be improved to a point where it can both a benefit or a detriment to the player's character. So how could it be achieved that the thirst, hunger and lack of vitamins is taken more serious? For one, by introducing a more lasting detriment to the player character if death to the character incurs, for whatever reason, like for instance reducing the maximum number hit points the character has by a certain amount or percent, although still with a maximum reduction that it can be reduced to. The character would be able to regain these by a certain amount/percent per day, where keeping certain vitamin types in the high area would lead to faster recovery, and it could be considered that certain foods would lead to even faster recovery, various remedies could possibly also be considered to add to this effect, including magic if that becomes a thing in the game. Furthermore, the vitamin surplus debuff really needs to be removed, as having a vitamin surplus has realistically never been a thing, because for humans excess vitamins is flushed from the system and does not become absorbed. The maximum hitpoint should also be able to be increased through the same as above, but only to half amount of what it could be reduced with. Actual values will need to be tweaked to find the appropriate amount, but I think the maximum hit point reduction cap should be around 25% of total hit point, and the maximum it can be increased temporarily to should be 12,5%.

A note on wildlife

I will say this though, there are various things that certainly needs to be fixed before implementing this, like wildlife has to be fixed. Because wildlife currently as is - a great threat and would only be intensified if the above is implemented. But why do I say that wildlife is a great threat? The thing is, most of the wildlife that are aggressive by default can out right kill you, especially if you cannot outrun it, you can outrun snakes, but they can torpor you even after you've outrun them, where it will either attempt to still kill you or some other aggressive animal will. The primary issues with hostile wildlife is that they can attack through the mesh of the environment, including buildings and ships, where they should not be able to,  the spawn amount and respawn timers, and that they're way too lethal and you cannot outrun them. Some of the absolute worst in the game currently would be wolves, lions and crocodiles. On the note of crocodiles, they're so bad currently because they can attack characters on smaller ships and can prevent players from getting rid of them, even trying to lure them away from the ship won't work, as they swim faster and only takes 2-3 attacks to outright kill one, they can potentially kill you before you even get a chance to lure them away. And given how respawn mechanics work, it almost litterally impossible to get it away from the ship. So yes, the wildlife is too much of a severe threat and seriously needs to be toned down, especially BEFORE implementing the above.

I am interested in knowing your thoughts on this @Jatheish and the community as well. Perhaps others have ideas similar to this or ideas that will support this even further.

There will never be added consequences to death. Like ever. Wildcard doesn’t work that way.

ark was the same way and this is ark as well so yeah death will always be better than surviving 

[Incarnate 34]

5 minutes ago, Coggage said:

Death due to the crazy amount of mob spawns is often 5 to 10 times in as many minutes. That's enough to contend with apart from adding penalties as well.

Didn't read the wall of text. You want penalties, I get that just by reading the underlined subheading.

I want the aspects like hunger, thirst, vitamin to taken seriously, especially death.
Since you didn't read it all, you probably also missed the point I was making about wildlife, and why they should deal with that first before considering implementing what I am suggesting?

 

7 minutes ago, ReilanT said:

when Dev have male a real balance, and when with 150 life point we stay alive again a wolf / lion more than 2 seconde with bump and stuck in body, when can speak of death conséquance 

 

I think wildlife in the game is NOT balanced and is very problematic, and really needs to toned down, because it's to the point where it's extremely imbalanced. I don't know if you read what I wrote about wildlife in the game and why they should deal with that first before even considering to implement what I suggested.

----------------

I think they should for now completely remove alphas, or the very least only have them on power node islands. Furthermore, I think they really need to nerf all the animals with an default aggressive behaviour, and they should reduce the number of spawns and their spawnrate, they should reduce their numbers in general, reduce their damage, and above all, remove their capabilities of moving through and attacking through the mesh of the environment, buildings, ships and so on. I'm not saying deadly animals shouldn't be lethal, because I think they should, but they're very problematic because of their spawnrate and the fact you can't actually outrun them, even crocs can catch you when you're injured, and it doesn't take many attacks from a croc to put you into injured state.

To the point of moving through and attacking through the mesh, thats not just a problem with animals, but a problem in general - and can even be used to board an enemy ship without the crew noticing it, as you can clip through the mesh of the hull of ANY playermade ship and get stuck, where I don't know about ghostships.

[Realist 504]

27 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

There is speculation that once the aging mechanic is fully implemented, that dying will cause your character to age faster. Given that the devs have suggested there will be stat nerfs as you age, this could indeed be a consequence. How much of one is open for debate. At the present moment I'd agree that death most often has little consequence. Occasionally one is unable to recover one's gear, but most of the time smart players don't carry much they can't afford to lose.

Death doesn’t affect age. Now you just have to grind out mating humans to keep your character. Nothing will change as far as each death goes. Not at all

Edited January 9, 2019 by Realist

[Incarnate 34]

4 minutes ago, Realist said:

There will never be added consequences to death. Like ever. Wildcard doesn’t work that way.

ark was the same way and this is ark as well so yeah death will always be better than surviving 

Even if they don't work that way, this ISN'T Ark even though it's based on Ark, it's a completely different game they're trying to make, a MMO game which they do need to realize requires other mechanics to balance. The same goes with that when they want hunger, thirst and vitamins to actually matter, they need to make death matter too, because otherwise it's really nothing more than annoyance. Furthermore, having a hunger/thirst/vitamin system becomes a joke when the consequenses of them doesn't matter, because what people just do is power through them and eventually die and respawn nearby. That is litterally how the players deal with them, die and respawn. How do you solve that, because quite clearly that isn't what they have in mind when they're adding a vitamin system with consequences of defiencies and surplus, where both the deficiency and surplus debuffs the character, something as elaborate as that system, I don't think they just had in mind that it shouldn't matter. Especially when considering that ultimately death comes from starvation, dehydration and vitamin deficiency. It makes sense that death should have consequences, because this is how players are dealing with it, just respawn nearby making that whole system a joke. Where there surplus consequence is just rediculous as the human body just flushes any excess vitamins through urin.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Incarnate
Adding more text.

[Realist 504]

6 minutes ago, Incarnate said:

Even if they don't work that way, this ISN'T Ark even though it's based on Ark, it's a completely different game they're trying to make, a MMO game which they do need to realize requires other mechanics to balance. The same goes with that when they want hunger, thirst and vitamins to actually matter, they need to make death matter too, because otherwise it's really nothing more than annoyance.
 

All I am saying is that it won’t happen. This is actually ark even if you don’t want it to be. The tames will get a buff pretty soon once all the ark players want their tough tames back. Tames will always be used as resource gatherers above all else.

land base building is already more important than ship building. You can always build a bigger base, you can’t keep building a bigger ship. Even the raft and motor boat in ark were better because you could keep building on it.

lastly, just wait till fliers get added(which they will) ark air supremacy will be back in a big way.

pretty soon the only sailing that will be done is to go raid another land base.

like you said it doesn’t matter if they don’t work that way. The players will turn this game into ark once they get tired of sailing. Which will happen soon

edit plus death will never have a consequence. And there is no way to make it to where death is worse than survival. Won’t happen 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Realist

[Realist 504]

17 minutes ago, Incarnate said:

Even if they don't work that way, this ISN'T Ark even though it's based on Ark, it's a completely different game they're trying to make, a MMO game which they do need to realize requires other mechanics to balance. The same goes with that when they want hunger, thirst and vitamins to actually matter, they need to make death matter too, because otherwise it's really nothing more than annoyance. Furthermore, having a hunger/thirst/vitamin system becomes a joke when the consequenses of them doesn't matter, because what people just do is power through them and eventually die and respawn nearby. That is litterally how the players deal with them, die and respawn. How do you solve that, because quite clearly that isn't what they have in mind when they're adding a vitamin system with consequences of defiencies and surplus, where both the deficiency and surplus debuffs the character, something as elaborate as that system, I don't think they just had in mind that it shouldn't matter. Especially when considering that ultimately death comes from starvation, dehydration and vitamin deficiency. It makes sense that death should have consequences, because this is how players are dealing with it, just respawn nearby making that whole system a joke. Where there surplus consequence is just rediculous as the human body just flushes any excess vitamins through urin.

Exactly, the system is a joke and there is no way to stop it from being a joke. There is no consequence that can be made that it would be worth carrying around 4 different types of food so you can stay alive.

we had something even worse in ark. It was called swamp fever. Totally lowered all your stats and the cure for it was expensive. What did people do? Found out if you switch servers and come back it was gone. That simple 

no possible way to make death matter

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Realist

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

29 minutes ago, Realist said:

Death doesn’t affect age. Now you just have to grind out mating humans to keep your character. Nothing will change as far as each death goes. Not at all

Death doesn't affect age...yet. But it has been hinted that when the mating mechanic is fully implemented that dying will accelerate aging. I believe I was rather clear in my posting that it was speculation on coming mechanics, so saying death doesn't affect age might be technically true, but misses the point. Saying nothing will change is asserting something you don't know for sure and can't possibly know, you can only speculate, particuarly when you don't even own the game.

[Realist 504]

4 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Death doesn't affect age...yet. But it has been hinted that when the mating mechanic is fully implemented that dying will accelerate aging. I believe I was rather clear in my posting that it was speculation on coming mechanics, so saying death doesn't affect age might be technically true, but misses the point. Saying nothing will change is asserting something you don't know for sure and can't possibly know, you can only speculate, particuarly when you don't even own the game.

Well to be honest even that won’t really change. I guarantee that once human mating comes around they will be mass producing kids to where it wouldn’t even matter if death speeds up aging.

my main point of “nothing will change” is that death Will always be a better option.

i mean even death aging faster won’t do it. They would have to change around 10 different things to even somehow make death really not that appealing. And guess what? If they managed to do it there would be way too many people pissed off and they would revert back.

so yeah still won’t be changing 

[Incarnate 34]

17 minutes ago, Realist said:

All I am saying is that it won’t happen. This is actually ark even if you don’t want it to be. The tames will get a buff pretty soon once all the ark players want their tough tames back. Tames will always be used as resource gatherers above all else.

land base building is already more important than ship building. You can always build a bigger base, you can’t keep building a bigger ship. Even the raft and motor boat in ark were better because you could keep building on it.

lastly, just wait till fliers get added(which they will) ark air supremacy will be back in a big way.

pretty soon the only sailing that will be done is to go raid another land base.

like you said it doesn’t matter if they don’t work that way. The players will turn this game into ark once they get tired of sailing. Which will happen soon

edit plus death will never have a consequence. And there is no way to make it to where death is worse than survival. Won’t happen 

That may very well be so, but they, both players and devs still need to realize, that they're trying to make a different game, so if people want their tough tames back, then they should go play Ark. Tames are not the focus in this game, it makes sense that it's so far Ark, but not Atlas. And in my opinion, I think it's really bad idea for them to make animals good at gathering, since they're not in real life being used that way, and even with this being a game, this is much closer to real life than Ark is. They really should consider the consequences of having tames having this role in this game, especially because they're trying to steer the game in a different direction. In regards to this they also have to be really careful, because the game has been advertised as being something else, if the connection is made that this is really just Ark with a reskin, then it's really just a mod, and guess how many people who can actually claim a refund due to it being advertised as being something else. Both players and devs really need to realize that this is a different game, this isn't Ark, even it's based on Ark, it's still a completely different game, where taking it in the direction of Ark is a really bad idea.

It actually is possible to build on ships, and I have personally seen ships that are more like a floating base than a ship. If they add fliers, hopefully they will do so where you can't use it for viable longer transportation.

6 minutes ago, Realist said:

Exactly, the system is a joke and there is no way to stop it from being a joke. There is no consequence that can be made that it would be worth carrying around 4 different types of food so you can stay alive.

we had something even worse in ark. It was called swamp fever. Totally lowered all your stats and the cure for it was expensive. What did people do? Found out if you switch servers and come back it was gone. That simple 

no possible way to make death matter

 

Yes, there is, and that is adding consequences for dying, and in general that should be something players are attempting to avoid. The added consequences of dying would really be impactful on PvP servers, because if suddenly death and staying alive begins to matter, then people will begin to take dying much more serious, and death should be taken serious. Again, this isn't Ark, even it's based on Ark, this is an MMO game and it requires other mechanics to balance and an experience that can be enjoyed. You could even argue that they should do a similar approach in Ark (add consequences of dying) or completely remove that component from the game. Why? Because if the component doesn't do what it's supposed to, add realism and making surviving important to the game, and make death something that actually matters as the consequences of starving or dehydrating ultimately is death, where people just respawn, then it doesn't do what it's supposed to, all it becomes is an annoying gameplay component.

What you're talking about in regards to Ark and swamp fever, is really people exploiting a bug in the game, something that wasn't intended. It's the same deal here, it's not really intended for people to just let themselves die and respawn, instead it's intended that people try and survive, by eating correctly. So here again it's a game component that really doesn't achieve what it's supposed to - making surviving matter. So the way they solve that is to make dying having more lasting effects that you do not want, so you will try to avoid dying rather than use whats convenient to avoid the detrimental effects of starving, dehydrating, vitamin deficiencies, etc.

[Noobsta 3]

Yes it should but not when you die to any thing in the world, lvl50 full armor and gets kill by a wolf when you head shot it for 90% and then die in the time to reload :-P.

So go with picke or mace then you run like your in mud and the fighting animation is so slow your knock out the way or the target just moves lol 

[Incarnate 34]

Just now, Realist said:

Well to be honest even that won’t really change. I guarantee that once human mating comes around they will be mass producing kids to where it wouldn’t even matter if death speeds up aging.

my main point of “nothing will change” is that death Will always be a better option.

i mean even death aging faster won’t do it. They would have to change around 10 different things to even somehow make death really not that appealing. And guess what? If they managed to do it there would be way too many people pissed off and they would revert back.

so yeah still won’t be changing 

So maybe instead of saying it won't happen, how about trying to convince the devs of the right choices to make, rather than just say this and that won't happen because so and so.

In regards to age accelerating faster as a result of death I think is a bad thing, likewise do I think it's a bad idea to make the mating part a player driven aspect, I can see what they're trying to replicate, but their approach should be different. In a single player game it would work, but in an MMO game, most certainly not. If they want mating to be a part of the game they need to make it so it's not forced onto a player, but a core gameplay mechanic that does not require a player to make it work. Because if they do, they're effectively giving both power and responsibility of other players being able to retain their progress, which is a really bad gameplay-wise.

[Incarnate 34]

1 minute ago, Noobsta said:

Yes it should but not when you die to any thing in the world, lvl50 full armor and gets kill by a wolf when you head shot it for 90% and then die in the time to reload :-P.

So go with picke or mace then you run like your in mud and the fighting animation is so slow your knock out the way or the target just moves lol 

If you read the part about what I think in regards to wildlife and this suggestion, then you'd also know that what you're saying there wouldn't apply if they implemented the consequences of death as I've suggested. Because they should not implement what I've suggested until they've properly balance wildlife, which it currently is very far from.

Whether you're level 1 or max level, if you're wearing no armor or the best armor, and you've brought it down to 10% of it's health shouldn't matter - if you die you should receive the penalty for dying - essentially circumstances shouldn't matter.

In regards to wild life, I don't think wildlife should be able to replenish their health from eating, that should heal over time, furthermore I don't think wildlife should hunt/be aggressive unless provoked or because they're hungry.

[Realist 504]

4 minutes ago, Incarnate said:

That may very well be so, but they, both players and devs still need to realize, that they're trying to make a different game, so if people want their tough tames back, then they should go play Ark. Tames are not the focus in this game, it makes sense that it's so far Ark, but not Atlas. And in my opinion, I think it's really bad idea for them to make animals good at gathering, since they're not in real life being used that way, and even with this being a game, this is much closer to real life than Ark is. They really should consider the consequences of having tames having this role in this game, especially because they're trying to steer the game in a different direction. In regards to this they also have to be really careful, because the game has been advertised as being something else, if the connection is made that this is really just Ark with a reskin, then it's really just a mod, and guess how many people who can actually claim a refund due to it being advertised as being something else. Both players and devs really need to realize that this is a different game, this isn't Ark, even it's based on Ark, it's still a completely different game, where taking it in the direction of Ark is a really bad idea.

It actually is possible to build on ships, and I have personally seen ships that are more like a floating base than a ship. If they add fliers, hopefully they will do so where you can't use it for viable longer transportation.

Yes, there is, and that is adding consequences for dying, and in general that should be something players are attempting to avoid. The added consequences of dying would really be impactful on PvP servers, because if suddenly death and staying alive begins to matter, then people will begin to take dying much more serious, and death should be taken serious. Again, this isn't Ark, even it's based on Ark, this is an MMO game and it requires other mechanics to balance and an experience that can be enjoyed. You could even argue that they should do a similar approach in Ark (add consequences of dying) or completely remove that component from the game. Why? Because if the component doesn't do what it's supposed to, add realism and making surviving important to the game, and make death something that actually matters as the consequences of starving or dehydrating ultimately is death, where people just respawn, then it doesn't do what it's supposed to, all it becomes is an annoying gameplay component.

What you're talking about in regards to Ark and swamp fever, is really people exploiting a bug in the game, something that wasn't intended. It's the same deal here, it's not really intended for people to just let themselves die and respawn, instead it's intended that people try and survive, by eating correctly. So here again it's a game component that really doesn't achieve what it's supposed to - making surviving matter. So the way they solve that is to make dying having more lasting effects that you do not want, so you will try to avoid dying rather than use whats convenient to avoid the detrimental effects of starving, dehydrating, vitamin deficiencies, etc.

I totally get you and I swear I actually read that long post. Yes it should be that way. You are not wrong.

but even like the other guy said. Even if they do make it to where dying makes you age faster. They will just start mass producing kids and not even worry about the aging process. Actually I am sure that once the stats start affecting age people will start milking themselves on purpose even faster so they can get back to the young version of themselves by means of the child.

once you hit 60 and have lowered stats, well times to repeatedly commit suicide so you can enter your kids body.

believe me if you think the death part is being exploited. Wait till you see how bad these guys are going to exploit the aging process.

a lot of ark players are on here. Even though you don’t want it to be ark, they will turn it into ark rather anyone likes it or not. Wait till the Megas start doing server wipes just like ark. They are just building their arsenal. There won’t be fair play when they start over running each server. And the devs won’t do anything about that. They even said eventually they wanted to see one huge company rule the globe.

i do agree with you that death should matter. All I am saying is that death will always be preferable. Because once they make dying so difficult they will have way too many people yelling at them that they will Recert it back.

look how fast you guys got 2x resources. Took over a year for that to happen in ark. Recruit difficulty has already started man. They literally just got done making the negative effects of vitamin deficiency less. They are making death even more preferable, not less preferable.

once again totally with you. But I am still saying nothing is going to change

[Realist 504]

9 minutes ago, Incarnate said:

So maybe instead of saying it won't happen, how about trying to convince the devs of the right choices to make, rather than just say this and that won't happen because so and so.

In regards to age accelerating faster as a result of death I think is a bad thing, likewise do I think it's a bad idea to make the mating part a player driven aspect, I can see what they're trying to replicate, but their approach should be different. In a single player game it would work, but in an MMO game, most certainly not. If they want mating to be a part of the game they need to make it so it's not forced onto a player, but a core gameplay mechanic that does not require a player to make it work. Because if they do, they're effectively giving both power and responsibility of other players being able to retain their progress, which is a really bad gameplay-wise.

Still totally with you. This is just a realistic view. If you look at the patches notes so far, they have been slowly making people think they are quality of life improvements but yet they are making death preferable. 

Also to stay along with ark they are making this into a grind fest just like ark was but at the same time giving 2x resources(also ark).

flame arrows are still a meta. Tames got nerfed but they made sure they are here and gathering.

the building system is a total reskin which I am fine with but base building will become the main thing to build.

and as far as fliers go. I know you won’t want them to be capable of long distance travel and I am sure wildcard doesn’t either. The way around that is get rid of your big ships and build 100 rafts to use for landing spots for your flier and you can start flying across servers at a much faster pace than any ship. If they release fliers, they are screwed 

[Realist 504]

13 minutes ago, Incarnate said:

If you read the part about what I think in regards to wildlife and this suggestion, then you'd also know that what you're saying there wouldn't apply if they implemented the consequences of death as I've suggested. Because they should not implement what I've suggested until they've properly balance wildlife, which it currently is very far from.

Whether you're level 1 or max level, if you're wearing no armor or the best armor, and you've brought it down to 10% of it's health shouldn't matter - if you die you should receive the penalty for dying - essentially circumstances shouldn't matter.

In regards to wild life, I don't think wildlife should be able to replenish their health from eating, that should heal over time, furthermore I don't think wildlife should hunt/be aggressive unless provoked or because they're hungry.

They messed up in the first place by making it a “sandbox” type game. Once players have that much freedom they turn the game into whatever they want it to be, regardless of what the devs want.

this is how wildcard gave up. No matter what they think of the players will turn it into whatever they want. They change a mechanic, the players find a way around it.

they also give up because if all they are doing is trying to change stuff already in the game so people play the way they want, they would never have time to add anything new. 

Why do you think they cater to the whiners? Because they can’t stop the players so instead they make it easier for the whiners that want easy mode. 

I am just being realistic. That is why they just push out content instead of optimizations 

[Incarnate 34]

@Realist - The thing is, what they should realize is that whenever people are playing around / exploiting other mechanics to avoid the intended gameplay, they should focus on how they can make it so that the intended gameplay still will be working as closely as what they intended it to be, they should also try to make it in way where it cannot be exploited. So for instance, when they see players just ignoring the intended gameplay around the starvation, dehydration and vitamin deficiencies, by quickly dying and then respawning nearby with no negative detriments, they should use that information to fix in a way where there intended gameplay still becomes prevailing gameplay in regards to how people try to get around it, by introducing other mechanics, like for instance making death matter through putting consequences of dying in.

So obviously, before they make aging matter, they need to have the effects of this gameplay narrowed down, so they can make it in a way that can't be exploited, where especially if they were to make it so death would hasten the need to for a new body, that would be extremely stupid and very much exploitable. UNLESS, they were to make mechanics around it that would make very difficult and very risky to even attempt, but still where the gameplay around it would be fun and where players who're not trying to exploit mechanics around it, are not getting punished for playing.

As I said, before they make age matter, they need the rest of gameplay narrowed down - currently they should disable age, and narrow down how to improve the core gameplay in their game, there are so many other things they need to get working properly, like wildlife, like playerdriven trade - and it should work for both PvE and PvP.

In terms of them giving up in various aspects of the game, if they can't get them right and stick by them then they shouldn't be making a game in the first place.

They should first and foremost make the game as they envision it but gradually make changes and implement things into the game that is HEALTHY and is what the game NEEDS, they should not be catering to those who whines the most or who is the most vocal, what they should do is implement and change things that are HEALTHY and what the game needs. This is first and foremost and MMO game they're trying to make, even despite it being based on Ark. They need to deal with how people are abusing various mechanics, how they exploiting various mechanics to avoid detrimental gameplay mechanics, or to gain an unfair advantage, and especially cheaters, griefers and hackers.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Incarnate

[UDO 361]

hunger , thirst , vitamins  , make it persistant ..u die u respawn with the same hunger , thirst and vitamin lvls u had before u died ,respawn in the same condition  solved .... 

 

as for death having consequences until they fix the animal clipping through walls / ships players they need to stay away from death consequences ,

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by UDO