Is melee even viable?

[ExplodingYeti 17]

I tried melee and it's terrible. On small mobs like aggressive animal, pigs whatever it's ok if you can deal with the stupid amount of desynch that make the mob teleport constantly behind you in a fucking slideshow. A bow is just better because you mostly can kill them before they reach you if you agro them first, and they will mostly run in a straight line toward you.

For treasure map mobs, you won't be able to take them down i melee exclusively, you have to lure them, and fight them 1vs1. The crossbow guys and the one hander are fine, with a sword if someone can heal you between each mobs i guess.  I personally use sword only if i need to finish them quick.The 2H guy is completely over the top, the only reliable way i found to take them down is by shooting 4 flintshot almost point blank in their head while back pedaling. You will still miss, if more than one miss you'll have to redo it all again. The sword make something like 4 damage to them, the metal pike like 11, they have around 800+ hp and will basically kill you in 4/5 hits max, less if they catch you in their overhead move that have huge aoe. If you try the funky moves (other than clicking), you'll be lock in an animation for ever and will miss pretty much all the time with the desynch/lag.

 

So they will first need to fix the lag/desynch before even being able to test melee properly, this is going to take some time i guess.

They are good reason why bow is the best weapon, was also the best in Ark.

Edited January 7, 2019 by ExplodingYeti

[KojiroNakamura 2]

Anyone who says melee weapons are not garbage should spec out in full melee and give it a shot. 

Will notice very quickly why we all use mostly the bow ...  

And stop comparing this with Ark. Its not Ark. Melee weapons need to be usefull for something and at the moment in this balance they are just not.

[Vorxius 249]

I found the pike to be the most useful tool... against wolves in water.   Not tried a sword though..   Everywhere else, bow reigns.  Does anyone know the damage difference between the stone arrow and the flame arrow these days?  I know they nerfed the flame to hell, but wondered if was still efficient to use against the stone...

[KojiroNakamura 2]

4 minutes ago, Vorxius said:

I found the pike to be the most useful tool... against wolves in water.   Not tried a sword though..   Everywhere else, bow reigns.  Does anyone know the damage difference between the stone arrow and the flame arrow these days?  I know they nerfed the flame to hell, but wondered if was still efficient to use against the stone...

Last time i tried it a few days ago flame arrow was OP as hell. Arrows in general need to have ZERO damage on armored targets and much lower damage on bigger targets.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

3 hours ago, ExplodingYeti said:

I tried melee and it's terrible. On small mobs like aggressive animal, pigs whatever it's ok if you can deal with the stupid amount of desynch that make the mob teleport constantly behind you in a fucking slideshow. A bow is just better because you mostly can kill them before they reach you if you agro them first, and they will mostly run in a straight line toward you.

For treasure map mobs, you won't be able to take them down i melee exclusively, you have to lure them, and fight them 1vs1. The crossbow guys and the one hander are fine, with a sword if someone can heal you between each mobs i guess.  I personally use sword only if i need to finish them quick.The 2H guy is completely over the top, the only reliable way i found to take them down is by shooting 4 flintshot almost point blank in their head while back pedaling. You will still miss, if more than one miss you'll have to redo it all again. The sword make something like 4 damage to them, the metal pike like 11, they have around 800+ hp and will basically kill you in 4/5 hits max, less if they catch you in their overhead move that have huge aoe. If you try the funky moves (other than clicking), you'll be lock in an animation for ever and will miss pretty much all the time with the desynch/lag.

 

So they will first need to fix the lag/desynch before even being able to test melee properly, this is going to take some time i guess.

They are good reason why bow is the best weapon, was also the best in Ark.

it seems to me that they are so terrified of making the game too easy, that they make it border between frustrating, and impossibly hard.

[Scrad 14]

20 hours ago, RogueLdr said:

Add to that the fact that topor KO's you in about 3 hits.

Just on this small snippet of comment.

Get some Fortitude, Torpor is way less effective as are extremes of heat/cold.

A Fortitude score of 26 seems to be a pretty good number and balance your vitamins for another 30 and Torpor only really hurts when you faceplant a couple of giant snakes.

[Luxfere 90]

20 hours ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Melee is not a good way to kill animals.  You do too little damage, and take too much damage in the process.  There is no balance in this.  Even metal armor offers almost no protection.  In metal, 3 or 4 hits by a normal wolf and you are almost dead.

The Alphas are stupid.  You don't even want to take tames out.  Even an Alpha Pig is death to your tames if you do something to make it mad.  Tonight, one of our guys had 3 bears with him, one he was riding.  There were 5 pigs, and something attacked his bears, and the Alpha pig ended up getting hit also.  Killed two of the bears before we could get the Alpha Pig to aggro to us and not the remaining bear, while he got away with that bear.    It just feels pointless to spend so much time trying to get tames when they are killed so easily.  Horses are useless.  Too vulnerable.

Taming in Atlas is alot easier and less time consuming then it is in ark , and for bears seriously take the heal and damage buff abilities they can help you survive some tough fights. Remember on animals this is still early access this is where we get to sort out the bugs and balance 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Luxfere

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

7 minutes ago, Luxfere said:

Taming in Atlas is alot easier and less time consuming then it is in ark 

Less time consuming, sure.  Easier...I don't think so.  And it is also immersion breaking.  Never in history has an animal been tamed by repeatedly shooting it with arrows, and shoving food in it's mouth while it's disabled.  It's beyond horrible.

Better would be to allow us to tranq an animal, then carry it back on a pole...two people...or cage it on a cart, and take it back to base, or the ship, or where ever, and over time, feed it when it acts passive, and crack a whip at it when it acts aggressive.  As it gets near completed taming, it wants a hug or go for a walk, and then it is finally tamed.  This is a whole lot more realistic, and would be far more satisfying game play.  Getting the would be tame back to base, or into a cage on a ship, etc...would be immersive, and challenging.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Captain Jack Shadow

[Luxfere 90]

Put it under suggestion?

[KojiroNakamura 2]

Tried the immersive taming mod on Ark ? If not i recommend it. 

Also i wouldnt say tames are "better" here then in Ark.

Did anyone actually try to make a 120%+ melee weapon with or without shield with 120% plate armor and do anything that way ?

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

39 minutes ago, KojiroNakamura said:

Tried the immersive taming mod on Ark ? If not i recommend it. 

Also i wouldnt say tames are "better" here then in Ark.

Did anyone actually try to make a 120%+ melee weapon with or without shield with 120% plate armor and do anything that way ?

Oh, you mean with that silly BP mechanism?  That's just not going to be a thing.  Not until you can go to a merchant on your own island, and buy what's needed.  Oh, and not until those BPs have unlimited uses.  I don't even bother with them.  Why even use one for your building, when it is so tedious, doesn't give much boost, and you can't use it for the whole base?  I'm sure not going to travel to other islands for the mats to do that.  I will just add another layer to the base, and do that in far less time.

 

[RogueLdr 46]

Realistic and fun do not always go hand in hand.

2 hours ago, Scrad said:

Just on this small snippet of comment.

Get some Fortitude, Torpor is way less effective as are extremes of heat/cold.

A Fortitude score of 26 seems to be a pretty good number and balance your vitamins for another 30 and Torpor only really hurts when you faceplant a couple of giant snakes.

I had put some points into fort and it seemed to make little dif, granted, it wasn't 26. If i put 26 points into fort i'd have no weight limit to carry any weapons  and no hp to survive if i did lol

Off hand, i've been having decent success with the mace power attack, IF i see them coming. The first hit lands right as they get to me and the second usually kills it, barring any normal melee shenanigans. Usually only get hit once, maybe twice before it's dead.

Edited January 7, 2019 by RogueLdr

[KojiroNakamura 2]

22 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Oh, you mean with that silly BP mechanism?  That's just not going to be a thing.  Not until you can go to a merchant on your own island, and buy what's needed.  Oh, and not until those BPs have unlimited uses.  I don't even bother with them.  Why even use one for your building, when it is so tedious, doesn't give much boost, and you can't use it for the whole base?  I'm sure not going to travel to other islands for the mats to do that.  I will just add another layer to the base, and do that in far less time.

 

Well i agree but was mostly going for the Weapon and similar BPs where the fact it was be made only 20 times means nothing to me since they weapon has 125% dmg and 14 upgrade slots... Thats what i was going for. 

Edit: and ye melee weapons are easier to make then others thats why i was wondering if anyone tried it yet.

Edited January 7, 2019 by KojiroNakamura

[firedropx 0]

only useful melee weapon is the pike for fighting stuff under water. Shields make u move slower than a salted slug and drains stamina too fast, plate armor offers almost no protection so trying to melee anything means you're going to die.

 

if you don't use flame arrows or guns you're severely gimping yourself.

 

i tried speccing all the way to the bottom with 2handed maces and it was a huge waste of skill points.. good luck meleeing anything on the powerstone islands when they run 4x faster than normal monsters and kill you in 2 hits

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

11 hours ago, Pappy Green said:

I have snakes, crocs and tons of vultures, also fn bees. They are not a problem.

Not every island is like that, and finding a place to put a claim isn't easy as it is.  Should everyone cram onto your island, or should the Devs fix the imbalance on the other islands?  I vote for the latter.

You said you were smart, but in your bragging, you forgot this little detail.

[Pappy Green 71]

What detail, that the islands are different? Does that need to be said? I thought everybody knew that. I said I wasn't dumb, not that I'm smart. And if answering op's question with my personal experience is bragging, I guess I was, but that wasn't my intention.

[misakisawn 2]

The AOE smash of a mace ( mouse wheel down) is pretty beast for killing animals but thats semi agressive stuff. For predators and such you just better off using a pistol and 1 tapping the face.

[KojiroNakamura 2]

Melee weapons need fixing badly. Same could be said to plate armor. 

Nobody is saying it needs to be beastly one shotting kind of thing but atleast usefull to some point where one can use it in any way possible. Atm not usable.

EDIT: also be nice to have a two handed SWORD ...

Edited January 8, 2019 by KojiroNakamura

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

On 1/7/2019 at 9:39 PM, Pappy Green said:

What detail, that the islands are different? Does that need to be said? I thought everybody knew that. I said I wasn't dumb, not that I'm smart. And if answering op's question with my personal experience is bragging, I guess I was, but that wasn't my intention.

Understood, but the point I am making is that all things being equal, the claimable lands should be similar in total threat to the players, with each area just presenting unique challenges, but the overall level of challenge should be similar, even if not 100% equal.  Right now, the game is out of balance in every single aspect of it, and some critically so, with ships costing a lot to make, but so easy to sink by one player, or a ship, or anything, and no way at all to protect it while offline.  People need to stop calling this EA, because EA does not cover games that have game breaking lack of mechanics.  This game does.

[Sulfurblade 194]

On 1/6/2019 at 2:40 PM, RogueLdr said:

Has anyone had success trying to melee in PVE?

I've tried every weapon and between lag, mobs charging, knock backs, mobs jumping or flying into the air... i've found melee not worth the trouble.

Add to that the fact that topor KO's you in about 3 hits and it seems really hard to kill much with melee weapons.

Am i missing something here?

Is anyone good at melee, cuz even with the bow nerf it still feels like the most consistent way to kill anything.

Melee via exploit is the only reliable way to kill most animals....

run into building wait for animal to stick face thru and hit him with your melee weapon this is the most effective way to kill any animal in this game!!!  To include alpha's which then yield you nice xp...

On 1/7/2019 at 2:04 PM, RogueLdr said:

Realistic and fun do not always go hand in hand.

I had put some points into fort and it seemed to make little dif, granted, it wasn't 26. If i put 26 points into fort i'd have no weight limit to carry any weapons  and no hp to survive if i did lol

Off hand, i've been having decent success with the mace power attack, IF i see them coming. The first hit lands right as they get to me and the second usually kills it, barring any normal melee shenanigans. Usually only get hit once, maybe twice before it's dead.

As for Giant snakes these are easy to melee I can kill groups of 3 with little issue with just a pike!  But then again I live in the tundra and have 70+ Fortitude!!!

[Nightstrasza 137]

5 minutes ago, Sulfurblade said:

Melee via exploit is the only reliable way to kill most animals....

run into building wait for animal to stick face thru and hit him with your melee weapon this is the most effective way to kill any animal in this game!!!  To include alpha's which then yield you nice xp...

As for Giant snakes these are easy to melee I can kill groups of 3 with little issue with just a pike!  But then again I live in the tundra and have 70+ Fortitude!!!

Don't meele alphas or literaly anything that is not a passive fish. Meeles don't get head bonus, would be cheaper to just use fire arrows, torch or blunderbuss. Being almost sure that blunderbussing an alpha will be cheaper than breaking that sword 10 times.

[Sulfurblade 194]

1 minute ago, Nightstrasza said:

Don't meele alphas or literaly anything that is not a passive fish. Meeles don't get head bonus, would be cheaper to just use fire arrows, torch or blunderbuss. Being almost sure that blunderbussing an alpha will be cheaper than breaking that sword 10 times.

Pike is cheep to repair and 1 pike can kill 2.5 alpha's via this cheesy method....  I see the wasting of fire arrows to be waist-full myself...

[Vaenix 131]

So I run with a group of people and we all take up the proper roles for what we are planning to fight.  A lot of it ends up being kiting the animal where we control the battle.  Melee is not viable against a few mobs that we have encountered but can be useful for some things.

Alphas - Kite around while shooting them or use flame arrows, melee is not a viable solution

Wolves/Lions/Tigers/Bears - Guns/Bows melee is not viable due to their movement speed and damage no matter what armor you use unless soloing them.

Crocs - The damage they do means close range is never going to be an option, if you are in water you better have a bed to respawn at.  You can kite them further away without taking damage by swimming at a downward angle if the goal is simply to move them.

Birds - Movement speed is a pain when they are aggro so melee is the solution for them, if they are grounded and you are hunting a pistol usually one shots them.

Snakes/Pigs - Melee is viable you just have to be able to dodge(double tab any movement key wasd) and lag can come into play with that.

Passive/Flee Mammals - Melee is an option but typically they run too fast to catch unless you get them to run into a trap or water.

Jellyfish/Eels/Manta/Sharks - Can be managed but you have to dodge a lot.

Whales - Just no, you will be there forever.  Get Ballistas.

Fish - Spear/Sword do well against most of them.

Monsters - Not bothering to attempt until further balancing as the only ones we've seen usually take 4-5 carbine shots.

Undead/Army of the Damned - So our tactic with this(before we had mounts) was to have 2-3 people jump in on melee while 3-4 were in the back shooting.  So far we have yet to have an issue handling multiple mobs with this, and the shield while viable, dodging is the better option as you don't use a ton of stamina to dodge.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Vaenix
spelling

[KojiroNakamura 2]

Sooo essentialy melee is not viable anywhere? Well ye melee is viable and REALLY good for killing low level birds and bee's. You just have to swing like a maniac and they will die. Not something i would see anyone spending loads of skillpoints on. Demands loads of stamina also.

But after this latest nerf Carbine, Pistols and Blunderbuss are not worth it either. Cost to much to make (especialy upgraded), lots to fix and make ammo for and only possible in your main base (unless you are crazy enough to carry alloy anywhere you go). Carbine does about 125dmg to a mob and then reloads for 20 seconds (provided you hit all the minigames) when the bow with normal arrows does 35 per arrow (again on normal mobs) and with just fast fire you can shoot about 12 arrows in 20 seconds which would make it about 400dmg provided you hit everything. Seeing as how you cant have both Carbine/Blunderbuss and the Bow in your hotkey's in the same time what would you use? A bow you can get ammo for and repair anywhere on the go that does x3-4 times more damage and you can sprint with (Carbine removes your ability to sprint while reloading for the 20ish seconds) or the Carbine? Did not test the Blunderbuss as i didnt see the point after testing the Carbine.

At this point anything other then the bow is useless. Someone in the staff must really, really love bow's.

Edited January 9, 2019 by KojiroNakamura