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MeatSammich

We are PvE/Claim issues and solutions

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13 hours ago, krazmuze said:

Set flag limits, set bed teleport limits, set flag decay, remove claim stealing and the flags would be a decent system.   
 

Flag limit i agree with. Bed teleport limit not, this is pve after all. Remove claim stealing ? So you can't even take someones base if they're inactive ? Go play a solo game then

4 minutes ago, DannyUK said:

If they continue with the current system of flag spamming then i won't be back and many others won't either when its more of the same.

Give us a flag or two yes but giving us unlimited flags and its goodbye.

Huh, what are you talking about ? There will be no more flags in pve, have you even read the topics lately ?
The unlimited flags you're talking about, is right now. 

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1 hour ago, Abysian said:

Flag limit i agree with. Bed teleport limit not, this is pve after all. Remove claim stealing ? So you can't even take someones base if they're inactive ? Go play a solo game then

Huh, what are you talking about ? There will be no more flags in pve, have you even read the topics lately ?
The unlimited flags you're talking about, is right now. 

The community manager stated that "they have heard our "suggestions" read ceaseless rants and whining about how the whole atlas will look like the lawless servers and no one will get any land (probably correct but anyway) many people have taken that to mean that they are not going to go nuclear and remove flags from pve although there has been no official statement on the matter.

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25 minutes ago, microphobe said:

The community manager stated that "they have heard our "suggestions" read ceaseless rants and whining about how the whole atlas will look like the lawless servers and no one will get any land (probably correct but anyway) many people have taken that to mean that they are not going to go nuclear and remove flags from pve although there has been no official statement on the matter.

Let's hope they change it. As of right now, there will still be no claim flags in pve, but let's hope they bring some news out this week, and maybe come up with something different and better.

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3 hours ago, MeatSammich said:

Well, if they are listening, flags will stay with reasonable claim limits, 

Remember, the idea is to go into it with enough land freed up for everyone from the start, to have plenty of leftover for new players. (see the math post upthread for the breakdown on numbers and what it could accomplish)

Reasonable upkeep would be fine, but I think a hard 15 day timer, regardless of number of claims you have, would be adequate, because if there is more than enough land already available, and people can't claim beyond their hard claim limit, it won't be an issue. When a timer runs down, there won't be 4 people who have no land, and 3 of the neighbors, and 2 of the big companies fighting for it. They'll already have land, and more than likely have hit their claim limits.

Thanks for the clarification on that!

forgot to add the claim limit part absolutely agree claim limit and upkeep problem solved 

 

it’s what the player base wants if the devs listen this time and do it they will win major brownie points from the community 

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3 hours ago, Abysian said:

Flag limit i agree with. Bed teleport limit not, this is pve after all. Remove claim stealing ? So you can't even take someones base if they're inactive ? Go play a solo game then

Huh, what are you talking about ? There will be no more flags in pve, have you even read the topics lately ?
The unlimited flags you're talking about, is right now. 

You make a post suggesting they are listening (making a change) now read what I previously wrote, you will get it.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, MeatSammich said:

is it possible to lower the current islands about 3-6 feet deeper in the sea, or raise the sea level the same amount?

There is not a Z coordinate for islands, only sublevels have Z coordinate (things like shipwrecks and docks)


But you are trying to solve a problem that is a feature not a bug.  They put water hazards into the game by design; be they pirates, water spouts or rocks.   The entire point of those features is that you cannot sail AFK, you have to watch where you are going and scout out foreign harbors.  It is also a defense mechanism for base locations that ships unfamiliar with your base might sink or ground themselves due to their poor navigation scouting.


So reading too much into a statement about "general adjustments of other biomes" that really just meant moving some islands around for more copy paste room,  which is what they said on the stream they are planning for the other biomes.  They cannot change any of the island templates waterlines that unofficials use as that would cause a base flood (wipe), which they are on record as saying unofficial would not wipe.

 

Edited by krazmuze

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Abysian said:

Remove claim stealing ? So you can't even take someones base if they're inactive ? 

flag decay solves that problem if someone is inactive then their flag vanishes and their base is now free for all as it decays.   The more flags the faster the flags decay.  There is no need to have a claim stealing feature on PVE.   Just repurpose those claim stealing timers as flag decay timers.

Edited by krazmuze

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30 minutes ago, krazmuze said:

There is not a Z coordinate for islands, only sublevels have Z coordinate (things like shipwrecks and docks)


But you are trying to solve a problem that is a feature not a bug.  They put water hazards into the game by design; be they pirates, water spouts or rocks.   The entire point of those features is that you cannot sail AFK, you have to watch where you are going and scout out foreign harbors.  It is also a defense mechanism for base locations that ships unfamiliar with your base might sink or ground themselves due to their poor navigation scouting.


So reading too much into a statement about "general adjustments of other biomes" that really just meant moving some islands around for more copy paste room,  which is what they said on the stream they are planning for the other biomes.  They cannot change any of the island templates waterlines that unofficials use as that would cause a base flood (wipe), which they are on record as saying unofficial would not wipe.

 

That question was more for my future knowledge, if I ever decide to set up a small private cluster and play with the map editor,  not asking/expecting the devs to do it. It would  shrink the amount of land available too much to be of any use on officials.

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35 minutes ago, krazmuze said:

flag decay solves that problem if someone is inactive then their flag vanishes and their base is now free for all as it decays.   The more flags the faster the flags decay.  There is no need to have a claim stealing feature on PVE.   Just repurpose those claim stealing timers as flag decay timers.

The flag vanishing when the timer/decay hits 0 is one of the best ideas that has been proposed. PvE has never needed a declaim timer, the chances of someone not logging on in the timer period needed for it to go claimable, and then logging on at the last second to block the declaim, is pretty slim.

As far as more flags = more decay/lower timer, eh. Personally don't think it would be needed. The issue everyone had with flags is that there wasn't land for everyone. If they instituted a reasonable claim limit (see the math breakdown upthread), it wouldn't matter if a small company's 10 flags last longer than a big company's 50 flags. Everyone would have already been able to claim out their max limit, with enough land left over for new arrivals, so they're not going to be stalking decaying flags because they have no land, or because they want to add it to their empire to rise up the leaderboards. A 15 day with no login timer, similar to Ark, would be sufficient to allow enough turnover of land, as well as allowing people time to have a life outside the game, allowing for 2 week vacations for solos, etc.

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9 hours ago, LoneXS said:

Yup they are listening... on twitter.

The forums are just for the vocal minority.

I know that Jat replies a bit on reddit, but the subreddit there is hugely dominated by PvPers, and anything PvE related is pretty much ignored or downvoted to hell.

If we didn't get Captain's Logs and Patch Notes posted here, I'd wonder if they even realized that they had official forums.

As is, now I just wonder if they realize that there are sub-forums, especially the one for PvE.

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Posted (edited)

Of all the places this is the only one that has focused subforums that has long running feedback and back and forth on specific topics. 

 But they seem to do be doing reactionary design based on tweeter feed.

 

49 minutes ago, MeatSammich said:

That question was more for my future knowledge, if I ever decide to set up a small private cluster and play with the map editor,  not asking/expecting the devs to do it. It would  shrink the amount of land available too much to be of any use on officials.

Not a feature of the map editor, you would have to mod the islands (move their sea level) with the devkit.

 

Edited by krazmuze

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4 hours ago, krazmuze said:

Of all the places this is the only one that has focused subforums that has long running feedback and back and forth on specific topics. 

 But they seem to do be doing reactionary design based on tweeter feed.

 

Not a feature of the map editor, you would have to mod the islands (move their sea level) with the devkit.

 

Yeah, the lack of 'community manager' interaction on their own forums, which, in my experience has been comparatively sane in terms of some of the issues and changes proposed, with some of the best suggestions, has bothered a few of us for a while now.

Thanks again for all the info on the map editing also. Cleared up a few misconceptions I had.

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try out the map editor I went from zero to watching reading tutorials to doing our unofficial map in only a few weeks time.  It is really clever way of allowing dynamic flexibility for custom servers by reusing island objects and their sub levels, giving things the appearance of being unique when they actually are not.  It allows easily making your own servers without needing to dive into devkit modding.

 

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5 hours ago, krazmuze said:

flag decay solves that problem if someone is inactive then their flag vanishes and their base is now free for all as it decays.   The more flags the faster the flags decay.  There is no need to have a claim stealing feature on PVE.   Just repurpose those claim stealing timers as flag decay timers.

I do hope they heard us and instead limit the number of claim flags per person or company because I just don't see how the upkeep system is going to prevent the mega-company from pillar/foundation spamming island. Unless of course, you make it so costly but then it cripple small companies from having a moderately nice building without grinding all day. Your idea of flag decay and then the flag vanishing from the map would be great and make it easier to see when the claim opened up. 

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Posted (edited)

It's frustrating that most of us really enjoy the game despite the bugs that have plagued us. The claim system is a brilliant idea that gives players a sense of safety and ownership along with a entirely new layer of trade and commerce. Many of those who joined the game later from EA launch felt frustrated that land was difficult to obtain and yes that push us away, but didn't stop us from wanting land of our own.

Now that claims are announced as being abolished after the wipe those who never had land will not get it or have the same sense of ownership. I had pride in my land claim and that pride drove me to build beautifully. Land ownership is more than functional. It's a catalyst that will raise the aesthetics of the game. Without that pride people will build functionally. You can bet to see Borg cubes on every beach.

Returning to the frustration, we the players know that a reduction in available claims or limitations per server per player are a sure fired way to solve this. I feel like there's a language barrier between the populous and the development team. That's what's making us shout all the louder.

 

Edited by Mythathos
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Make auto repair only work on contiguous structures and isolated structures decay faster.   A single pillar or foundation is 10 minutes.   Enough for a trap is a day (same with a resource block hut).   A full base then yeah let it last a long time. 

 

Dick moves are a lot less attractive when you have to literally spend every moment to keep only 20 or 30 pillars up

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We're certainly reading the threads here and taking notes. I've been predominantly communicating through our Official Discord as we gather feedback from players as it's more of a "live" environment where there's a natural flow of conversation. That's not to imply that feedback via Discord is taking priority over feedback posted here, just that I'm less likely to post conversationally here as I read. 

Thank you for all of your input, guys. 

 

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Just wanted to chime in here to let you guys know we are actively reading the threads, our discord servers, tweets, reddit posts, etc. We consume feedback from every where and not one place takes a priority over another. Typically we tend to do our big announcement/changes over our Captain's Log, as we're able to funnel people into one location where they can see what we're planning.

As for the PvE specific feedback, we are discussing as a team, based on the feedback and suggestions you've provided about our initial proposal and we're open to making changes. So certainly keep it coming as we do appreciate it 🙂

Edit: Dollie beat me to the punch 😛. I am hoping that we'll be able to share more info with you guys soon, based on what we decide to do but you have all certainly raised some valid concerns over the past few days.

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14 minutes ago, Dollie said:

We're certainly reading the threads here and taking notes. I've been predominantly communicating through our Official Discord as we gather feedback from players as it's more of a "live" environment where there's a natural flow of conversation. That's not to imply that feedback via Discord is taking priority over feedback posted here, just that I'm less likely to post conversationally here as I read. 

Thank you for all of your input, guys. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Jatheish said:

Just wanted to chime in here to let you guys know we are actively reading the threads, our discord servers, tweets, reddit posts, etc. We consume feedback from every where and not one place takes a priority over another. Typically we tend to do our big announcement/changes over our Captain's Log, as we're able to funnel people into one location where they can see what we're planning.

As for the PvE specific feedback, we are discussing as a team, based on the feedback and suggestions you've provided about our initial proposal and we're open to making changes. So certainly keep it coming as we do appreciate it 🙂

 

Thank you for the post. I'm looking forward to the changes you will make based on the feedback so far. 

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Thanks for posting, it's nice to know your reading our feedback.

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Probably one of the weirdest things I've seen is a community that thought a game system was less broken then the devs did.

 

Players were hoping for another iteration of tweaks and modest changes like either flag limits or upkeep on flags 

Devs scrapped the whole shebang to start over

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1 hour ago, Archsenex said:

Probably one of the weirdest things I've seen is a community that thought a game system was less broken then the devs did.

 

Players were hoping for another iteration of tweaks and modest changes like either flag limits or upkeep on flags 

Devs scrapped the whole shebang to start over

Odd, right?

 

Me: "Hey, can you raise the flame on the stove a little? I want to boil the water a little faster."

Father-in-law:   ----rips out gas based stove and installs electric stove instead.

 

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Just now, Hattrix said:

Odd, right?

 

Me: "Hey, can you raise the flame on the stove a little? I want to boil the water a little faster."

Father-in-law:   ----rips out gas based stove and installs electric stove instead.

 

Somebody has been watching a bit too much Home Imrpovement.

"Now, we're Atlasing with MORE POWER"

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3 hours ago, Dollie said:

We're certainly reading the threads here and taking notes. I've been predominantly communicating through our Official Discord as we gather feedback from players as it's more of a "live" environment where there's a natural flow of conversation. That's not to imply that feedback via Discord is taking priority over feedback posted here, just that I'm less likely to post conversationally here as I read. 

Thank you for all of your input, guys. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Jatheish said:

Just wanted to chime in here to let you guys know we are actively reading the threads, our discord servers, tweets, reddit posts, etc. We consume feedback from every where and not one place takes a priority over another. Typically we tend to do our big announcement/changes over our Captain's Log, as we're able to funnel people into one location where they can see what we're planning.

As for the PvE specific feedback, we are discussing as a team, based on the feedback and suggestions you've provided about our initial proposal and we're open to making changes. So certainly keep it coming as we do appreciate it 🙂

Edit: Dollie beat me to the punch 😛. I am hoping that we'll be able to share more info with you guys soon, based on what we decide to do but you have all certainly raised some valid concerns over the past few days.

Thank you to the both of you for popping in and letting us know that you are listening.

Changed the thread title in the interest of fairness to the community team.

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7 hours ago, Jatheish said:

Just wanted to chime in here to let you guys know we are actively reading the threads, our discord servers, tweets, reddit posts, etc. We consume feedback from every where and not one place takes a priority over another. Typically we tend to do our big announcement/changes over our Captain's Log, as we're able to funnel people into one location where they can see what we're planning.

As for the PvE specific feedback, we are discussing as a team, based on the feedback and suggestions you've provided about our initial proposal and we're open to making changes. So certainly keep it coming as we do appreciate it 🙂

Edit: Dollie beat me to the punch 😛. I am hoping that we'll be able to share more info with you guys soon, based on what we decide to do but you have all certainly raised some valid concerns over the past few days.

This is often enough for us to relax a bit.  Please don't do what Blizzard does, don't be scarce on the forums.  We don't need daily updates, but sometimes the silence between posts from the devs makes it feel like you guys aren't listening to us.

Discord is nice and all, but some (many?) of us don't frequent discord.  Picking a random thread every few days with concerns from Page 1 of the 3 Main forums (general discussion, PvE Gen Disc, and PvP Gen Disc) and dropping in to say "We're listening" and perhaps an update of ideas you're throwing around can go a looooooooooooong way.

 

Thanks again for the post, Jat and Dollie.

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