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mrfoxtrot

Please make refunds available with your content changes.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Caldrin said:

Have been a part of many alpha and beta tests over the years to many to count.. nearly every MMO I have tested have had multiple wipes all the way through development especially in alpha.. 

Scheduled and announced far in advance. Not after they sold the game and got to a point of people having 500 hours.

When you did that testing, you got an invite to a beta to test. Like the rest of us.

Edited by Buck Rider

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This was announced and now scheduled in advanced you have a month. 

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Just now, Buck Rider said:

Scheduled and announced far in advance. Not after they sold the game and got to a point of people having 500 hours.

No not at all.. usually when major changes were made to the game systems exactly like this. 

I maybe have 300 hours but I came into this early development know there would be wipes at some point.. especially when they started talking about making major changes to the way the game works.

 

 

 

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With that amount played id say you got your moneys worth anyway tbh.

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7 hours ago, mrfoxtrot said:

Background:
I bought both the early access game about three weeks after launch, and after playing, a second copy for an alternate account for skill/crafting access. Between the two, I have over 500 hours of playtime on Atlas, and around 3,300 on Ark.

Ark and Atlas are games that require a commitment, and a certain level of trust towards the server operators that effort will be relatively persistent. Some servers advertise high gather rates and scheduled wipes, for instance, to cater to that kind of player. It is assumed that official servers are (relatively) persistent by a playerbase. If the changes incorporated in the March update was in any way known at the time of purchase, making the game effectively PVE(VP), I would never have purchased the game, much less a second copy of it, and never burned those hours of my life soldering through all the glitches and bugs that this game so frustratingly offers. I bought what was advertised and sold as a PVP game. Period. I've solo farmed several ships all the way including a mystic galleon, and I've lost most of those ships to griefing, so no, I'm not a "free looter". That is precisely why I play, as I take losses I've progressed, and the risk is what keeps me coming back. That's how mature gamers stay with a PVP mmo, and I bought the game knowing I would take those losses. So did everyone else, only some people think it just "wouldn't happen to them" much like they think they will never die.

This update is being forced upon, and at the cost of, the people who (were) committed to playing, in deference to those who never did. The game is radically being redesigned in a way that was never advertised, and to which I would never have purchased. It is becoming two game modes, PVE and PVE(vp).

In fairness, you need to make refunds an option so that your existing player-base can freely and peacefully exit on good terms, and you can continue going down whatever radically new development path you choose to satisfy all your non-players. I find this necessary to post on your forums as apparently the game is modeled entirely around complaints made on your forums. I was sold two copies of a game you are no longer developing, and to which you will be wiping all content. 

Please make this an option to be fair to your existing, dedicated player base. Either way, I'm out effective today, the difference is in the perception your company retains moving forward, hopefully we can depart on good terms.

Sincerely,
Foxtrot

The game was marketed as Early Access. Period.

Early Access means wipes are not only possible but probable. In fairness this update is being forced upon exactly no one since it is exactly the sort of thing anyone purchasing an EA title should expect. Your request for a refund is based solely upon your lack of understanding or acceptance of the EA process and therefore without merit. Radical changes to game design are entirely possible during a 2 year EA. They are not legitimate grounds for refunds.

Your arguments about who the changes are for are entirely subjective, supported only by your own opinions, and also entirely beside the point. If you do not care for the changes you are free to go, but nothing you have presented is a compelling case for granting refunds.

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Nowhere have I stated I am entitled to a refund or that EA entitles me to a refund. I have suggested that the company, at their option, should make it available with the drastic nature of these changes.

It's also amusing that people believe the title of "EA" means anything goes, the developer has your money, they could even make you download Pokemon Go at their discretion and you have no place to be offended. Whether in development or not, you are being sold on an advertised product, you are simply not guaranteed of it's completion. Changing an EA entirely into something it was never advertised to be is not part of the package. Does that entitle a refund? No, you're not entitled to anything in life. Would a company that gives a rip about CS offer a refund to depart on good terms? There's your question. 

Funny thing is, many companies in the past have made refunds available when drastic changes isolate much of their paying player base. Take World of Warships for instance, as they integrate submarines and massive changes to aviation. For most players, they will be positive changes in that game, but they still offer refunds to those people who bought content (battleships/carriers) while in development that is now radically changed via the new environment into something they were not originally advertised to be. That development studio recognizes the losses they suffer from refunding many of those $60 battleships pales in comparison to the sales they can still recover from those same people in the coming decades.

It's called customer service, and recognizes that unsatisfied customers can still become future customers of other titles.

If, however, it's (wildcard v2's) discretion to tell everyone to go "f themselves", posters are certainly correct that is their right. That doesn't mean it's not bad business practice in relation to an already poor development reputation between Ark/Atlas, which has become the joke of the gaming world, for instance, for their promised ETA's among other issues - I don't know any other studio that is so mocked in that regard.

I guess the question is a mathematical one, how much revenue do they stand to lose by offering refunds to a percentage of customers they are alienating, vs. how much they stand to lose in continued reputational harm in their development cycle(s) and in respect to recapturing old customers. It could even be profitable if people re-purchased the completed game at full-price. Many people here don't have an open mind or business experience. If you think it's in Grapeshot's best interest to cut and run when they can show a profit,  and alienate more of the limited market they serve; by all means hire onto management there, you might fit in.

Alas, those satisfied with the patch are probably correct, it seems apparent they don't care about the retention of customers in the long run. Enjoy the boost in players after the wipe, it likely won't last very long once the side-effects are realized. 

PS: Griefing is abusing game mechanics to deny playability to others. It is not whining about pvp losses whether you are offline or online. The new patch enables griefing to new extremes. You'll find the invulnerable trolls and building spam to be a significant improvement to your enjoyment over complaining about pvp losses. Maybe you also have the free time to do the same-old-shit two, three, four times over, which has already had to happen due to significant glitches (discovery points reset anyone). Maybe staring at rockwall for the fifth and sixth time is "fun" to you. Maybe you all think the new scheduled PVP system will really work, in a MMO that crashes with 200 players on a server. Maybe you're right though, and there won't be enough players at an hour to reach 200 even with three days notice so it'll work. GL with your optimism, experience beyond hedonism saves some of us from the loss of more time in frustration.

At least other studios can learn from these shining examples. 

Peace out, Wildcard/Grapeshot and future iterations.

 

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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN I DONT UNDERSTAND EARLY ACCESS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

 

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500 hours  jesus u must have no life...

 

o wait i have 612...  but  I have stage 4 lung cancer and stuck to sitting here on a computer or watching tv....

500 hours tho  means u are sitting here all day every day barring some situation like me,  clearly you are not getting laid.... ever

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I love these posts. The game will still be "as advertised" but changing some game mechanics to make it suit what was intended. In MMO's its hard to predict what will happen with any given change. The spirit of the game is still the same with ships, cannons, taming, etc..

Regardless, like everyone else has said, you played 500 hours you got your moneys worth, period.

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13 hours ago, labatts said:

 im not for the new changes to adding offline raid protection.

Bwahahaha. To be fair I love your honesty.

Offline raids ftw right? Fuck actually playing against someone when you can just wait for them to have to sleep or work. Ofc its sarcasm, thats a terrible view to take. Its like saying you would prefer to compete in the special olympics. Enough of that though.

@mrfoxtrot

Your first contention, that the game is not what is was, is a baffling statement. Its still a game called Atlas, about sailing and being a pirate. Thats still a thing and I immediately start to question your views.

Your second issue, that there is no more PvP, as you stated or implied several times. What change do you think is being made that eliminates PvP? There was no such thing. This leads me to believe your sore as hell about not being able to offline raid someone. Forgive me if I could care less about your preference for a lack of competition. See above.

This brings us to your main point. Due to your delusional interpretation of whats going on and why, you feel it would behoove Grapeshot to give you a refund, and anyone else with hundreds of hours of entertainment becuase....it would give them better PR? What? LOL!

What, save them from the "bad" PR of letting you buy a game for less than half of what it will retail for 2 years early so that you may participate and help the devs finish thier product with your feedback?

Did you really think that on 2 years when the game goes live on retail you wouldnt get everything wiped?

Did you expect that no major changes would.be made in EA?

Do you not understand the reasons behind these changes, that even if you dont like THESE changes, something was going to happen?

Now for the best part of all. The fact that you took so long to make your lost and get EMO all over the page lets me know you will be back. Hell you had over 500 hours of free time to game in a 2 month period and you choose this game. Ill see you soon. I would recommend a PvE server for you and labatt though as you guys dont seem keen on actuall PvP.

 

Now please,  more tears, more yummy tears!

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The facts presented in the responses are embodied with such a level of intelligence that I am unable to respond with any counterpoints of equal standing. Indeed, there is an adage that applies.  The players that have been crying on the forums to incite these changes, who will start playing the game again for a moment; who could not tolerate the hardcore survival MMO that was advertised are clearly of such impressive regard, prowess, and intelligence that PvP'ers like myself cannot compete with their skill in defense or offense in an invulnerable "softcore" environment where nobody stands to lose anything. They are freed from their fears and can finally pvp within the confines of the chatbox of the game, to find the king of shit-talk. They can pillar spam and troll to show their superior skills in exploitation. Indeed, I am uninterested entirely in such a form of "pee ve ehhh" and would offer no competition to their skill in these regards.

Fear not, anyone who is disagreement with their brilliance is clearly only in disagreement because they offline raid. As with any entitled citizen; there can exist no valid opinion besides their own. Anything disagreeable is either racist, sexist, a griefer or an offline raider. For each narcissist is the celebrity gamer whose skill is beyond comprehension, I cannot refute their proclaimed "ability", as much as they cannot refute logic. And it is this user that the game is now molded to. 

The irony of their own arguments are clearly lost on these intellectuals. I capitulate, the time lost in discussion with these clear, upstanding users would rival the time lost in the game. The saving grace is this will help improve the demographic of other hardcore survival games that are, actually survival games as advertised. At least the whining won't be complaining in other venues about their losses from PvP inside a persistent PvP hardcore survival world. 

https://steamcharts.com/top/p.3   GG.

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No question there, but more to do with Wildcard/Grapeshots mere reliability on ETA. I can't recall a single deadline they've met in all the years of development of this engine. Literally, not one. I can't even think of a revised ETA they've ever met. So bad, that it's a joke among players of all kinds. You would think they would take their ETA's and multiply them by 300% by now, but then again, when have they ever learned from their own mistakes, this patch (end of February) included.

Hell, they usually can't even hit a restart ETA with 30 minutes notice.

So the player count will drop to near zero in the 2-3 month interim period now, and all the hopeful PVE saps will probably move on to other games after the end of March comes and goes without a wipe. Both the existing players are hosed, as well as those that are looking forward to "softcore" PVEvp. 

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14 hours ago, Enki Anunnaki said:

**plays 500+ hours in an early access game** "I demand a refund because you are adjusting your game for official release and i just don't like it" 
For some reason im imaging him having a bowl shaped haircut and he's talking with a lisp

fuck this guy.

MOst games are 60 bucks and you get 300 hours of game time and you beat it so wtf lol

14 hours ago, mrfoxtrot said:

Background:
I bought both the early access game about three weeks after launch, and after playing, a second copy for an alternate account for skill/crafting access. Between the two, I have over 500 hours of playtime on Atlas, and around 3,300 on Ark.

Ark and Atlas are games that require a commitment, and a certain level of trust towards the server operators that effort will be relatively persistent. Some servers advertise high gather rates and scheduled wipes, for instance, to cater to that kind of player. It is assumed that official servers are (relatively) persistent by a playerbase. If the changes incorporated in the March update was in any way known at the time of purchase, making the game effectively PVE(VP), I would never have purchased the game, much less a second copy of it, and never burned those hours of my life soldering through all the glitches and bugs that this game so frustratingly offers. I bought what was advertised and sold as a PVP game. Period. I've solo farmed several ships all the way including a mystic galleon, and I've lost most of those ships to griefing, so no, I'm not a "free looter". That is precisely why I play, as I take losses I've progressed, and the risk is what keeps me coming back. That's how mature gamers stay with a PVP mmo, and I bought the game knowing I would take those losses. So did everyone else, only some people think it just "wouldn't happen to them" much like they think they will never die.

This update is being forced upon, and at the cost of, the people who (were) committed to playing, in deference to those who never did. The game is radically being redesigned in a way that was never advertised, and to which I would never have purchased. It is becoming two game modes, PVE and PVE(vp).

In fairness, you need to make refunds an option so that your existing player-base can freely and peacefully exit on good terms, and you can continue going down whatever radically new development path you choose to satisfy all your non-players. I find this necessary to post on your forums as apparently the game is modeled entirely around complaints made on your forums. I was sold two copies of a game you are no longer developing, and to which you will be wiping all content. 

Please make this an option to be fair to your existing, dedicated player base. Either way, I'm out effective today, the difference is in the perception your company retains moving forward, hopefully we can depart on good terms.

Sincerely,
Foxtrot

Most games you buy are 60 bucks and it takes maybe 300 hours to complete i think you beat this dead horse also you should of read the FAQ

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17 minutes ago, mrfoxtrot said:

The players that have been crying on the forums to incite these changes, who will start playing the game again for a moment; who could not tolerate the hardcore survival MMO that was advertised are clearly of such impressive regard, prowess, and intelligence that PvP'ers like myself cannot compete with their skill in defense or offense in an invulnerable "softcore" environment where nobody stands to lose anything. 

Fear not, anyone who is disagreement with their brilliance is clearly only in disagreement because they offline raid. As with any entitled citizen; there can exist no valid opinion besides their own.

 

https://steamcharts.com/top/p.3   GG.

I'm trying to understand this, humor me. Your a PvP player, who is against offline raiding, or at least certainly is above participating in it. Yet you feel Atlas is going soft core because there are SOME offline raid protections?

I mean, there will be a 9 hour window to freelance raid on every island. 

You can attack anyone else's things on your island at any time.

You can buy a war token and schedule a siege, where you get to set the window for attack.

Lets not forget these rules only apply to settlements, anywhere else is fair game.

There are no rules on the sea, attack anyone at any time.

I am open minded and willing to hear you out.

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10 hours ago, Buck Rider said:

I have been gaming for longer than Jat has been alive. I have alpha's, beta'd and EA'd. I have played every major MMO since there were MMOs. I played SWG from the start to the end with 5 accounts. I've played Eve Online & WoW for their whole run. I even took a run at some of those MMOs like entropia. I've seen major map changes. I've seen engine changes. I've seen near total game rewrites.

I have never seen an MMO wipe toons.

Mmm. You obviously didn't play WOW in alpha/beta then. That was wiped several times, sometimes after only a couple of weeks.

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just give the douche his money back so he has no reason to be on the server in or in these forums.

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