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FruitBatCat

Why would anyone rent land?

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I love the attacks of greed and petty name calling to those who worked hard and earned what they have. Again this PVE style in this game is not traditional PVE. I challenge those complaining to join a bigger tribe. If you are on NA PVE come hang with us (Paragon). I will gladly show you how we got a foot hold as 3 man tribe and grew to 60+ players. The game is made to be hard. 

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2 hours ago, Archsenex said:

Pve should just be lawless rules everywhere with ability to travel to beds.  Dont touch it in 4 days, people can destroy it.

After thinking about this for some time this is the conclusion I've come to too. The claim system just doesn't gel well with PVE unless there are limitations on how much land you can claim and costs associated with maintaining the claim so there is a higher turnover of owners and certain groups don't take over massive swathes of land. Otherwise I can just see those areas become ghost towns after a few stories come out about how ppl were griefed  (true or false, mud sticks).

I really like the idea that the devs wanted us to create towns and co-op societies but in a PVE environment I feel this would have been better achieved with thoughtful map design and pre defined areas / lots in central hubs that could be rented from an imaginary overlord with the rest of the map being similar to how lawless is now. People could rent a small lot to trade from and place a bed and some storage in the 'city' Large bases and land grab is more a hang over from Ark and seems inappropriate for a pirate game anyway imo.

Ppl are too wary of being trolled to trust a player landlord or tenant under the current system in PVE.

EDIT: Also considering the renting lots in a town grid idea type of thing I was just imagining how awesome it would be to walk through a street of player designed houses with players trading or hanging out. Would be cool to see what ppl could create in a small space.

Edited by FruitBatCat
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11 minutes ago, redfisher said:

I love the attacks of greed and petty name calling to those who worked hard and earned what they have. Again this PVE style in this game is not traditional PVE. I challenge those complaining to join a bigger tribe. If you are on NA PVE come hang with us (Paragon). I will gladly show you how we got a foot hold as 3 man tribe and grew to 60+ players. The game is made to be hard. 

Darksea Dawgs started as 2 and have grown to 30. I 100% agree with Redfisher. The game is meant to be difficult and i wouldnt change a thing. 

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6 minutes ago, Sighdawg said:

Darksea Dawgs started as 2 and have grown to 30. I 100% agree with Redfisher. The game is meant to be difficult and i wouldnt change a thing. 

Well remember, in the business world, the voice of the few are unheard through the voice of the many. And if you have read very many reviews, you would should understand where I'm coming from. And believe it or not, I've not said you were totally wrong. I'm saying, give us options. Some of us want to play a pirate game. Others enjoy the land Baron game. Both can co exist. But not without some balance and a whole lotta content

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16 hours ago, Athlonis said:

Hmm, may i ask where i could find this Island of Happiness and Pina Coladas, so i can eventually take a  taxed Spot?

we are on c10 of hydras den. We are currently reworking some claims to allow more people to build, but as we already have 3 people livign in the neutral areas, im runnign out of spots.

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2 hours ago, Sighdawg said:

Darksea Dawgs started as 2 and have grown to 30. I 100% agree with Redfisher. The game is meant to be difficult and i wouldnt change a thing. 

How does throwing more players at something equal "hard"?

In my view that's the exact opposite and takes away the challenge...  it's not hard to build anything with 60 people and 30% tax bringing in even more mats.

 

A challenge is doing something hard solo or with a couple friends... not 20, 60, or 500 players strip mining an island then charging anybody else on that island 30% of everything they farm too.

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26 minutes ago, MindOfMadness said:

How does throwing more players at something equal "hard"?

In my view that's the exact opposite and takes away the challenge...  it's not hard to build anything with 60 people and 30% tax bringing in even more mats.

 

A challenge is doing something hard solo or with a couple friends... not 20, 60, or 500 players strip mining an island then charging anybody else on that island 30% of everything they farm too.

Ok first off i never even used the word “hard” so I dont know why you quoted that. Second, the challenge has been the grind to build what we have now and starting with two people. We’ve made new friends and we all do our own thing and tend to our lands. We dont have a constant 30 people online “strip mining” anything. I actually dare you to come to Hudrood Holm in A8 and try to do anything without getting torn apart every 10 min by alphas. 

 

Ive never said this game isnt possible to play solo. I believe it is, but it isnt ideal and I wouldnt recommend it. But i would never recommend playing an MMO solo. 

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21 minutes ago, Sighdawg said:

never said this game isnt possible to play solo. I believe it is, but it isnt ideal and I wouldnt recommend it. But i would never recommend playing an MMO solo

Um, by definition if you are playing an MMO, you technically are not playing "solo". But most of the discussion has been about small friend based companies And/or solo players. Some folks don't like the idea of a commitment to a group of folks they only met online. There is a certain degree of risk of losing your crap just joining a company. If the relationship goes south you can lose alot of hard work. It's about solo or small groups gaining a small secure foothold until some trusting bonds are formed. You have eluded to that being somewhat of a struggle yourself. And for persons who only have a couple hours or so to throw at a game in a day, it's a bit of a turnoff. And before you jump on the "this isn't the game for you" claim, let's just have the discussion of better options as a community and let the devs decide. Again, successful MMOs find a way to afford players of all walks of life the same opportunities. MMOs don't just cater to one playstyle, and that's what players opposed to making changes to the system seem to suggest

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22 minutes ago, Huck Finnley said:

Um, by definition if you are playing an MMO, you technically are not playing "solo". But most of the discussion has been about small friend based companies And/or solo players. Some folks don't like the idea of a commitment to a group of folks they only met online. There is a certain degree of risk of losing your crap just joining a company. If the relationship goes south you can lose alot of hard work. It's about solo or small groups gaining a small secure foothold until some trusting bonds are formed. You have eluded to that being somewhat of a struggle yourself. And for persons who only have a couple hours or so to throw at a game in a day, it's a bit of a turnoff. And before you jump on the "this isn't the game for you" claim, let's just have the discussion of better options as a community and let the devs decide. Again, successful MMOs find a way to afford players of all walks of life the same opportunities. MMOs don't just cater to one playstyle, and that's what players opposed to making changes to the system seem to suggest

Dude youre arguing semantics with me. Obviously youre not alone in an MMO. That doesnt mean you cant play solo. Lets not split hairs, please? 

No one is forcing anyone to join a company. There are risks involved with joining up with other people. There are also benefits. Thus is life. The problem is with an MMO is the easier you make things for a single player the more dominant larger tribes become. This game is heavy heavy skill base and luck based. Luck in the sense that i sure hope I dont cross this server wall, crash, and load the ship into a SoD. 

Im just going to say this. Im 100% for a condusive conversation involving productive ideas. But solo players need to take into consideration that certain small changes to mechnics can cause HUGE adverse effects.. just be patient guys and lets help Grapeshot make a great game. Atlas has alot of potential!

Edited by Sighdawg

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On 1/13/2019 at 4:02 PM, FruitBatCat said:

After failing to find anywhere to claim I've ended up on lawless which is fine by me tbh as I only have to log on every few days to be completely secure.

I've been thinking about this a lot though, why would anyone want to rent land? I've been offered land to rent many times but I'm simply not interested. You're basically rewarding someone for taking more land than they need.

The system is without any benefits to the renter that I can see, in fact it is counter productive to the renter as it will encourage others to retain land they don't actually need so their chance of ever finding their own claim is diminished every time a rental agreement is made.

There's no protection, no guarantee you won't build up and then the owner adds you to their exclusion list and boom all that is yours is now theirs. You have no protection against them leaving the game or simply getting their claim contested.

It's not a fun mechanic at all and I can't see why anyone would rent. I feel it's a fundamentally flawed system in the game and will encourage more people to leave than continue playing.

I'm genuinely interested in people's opinions on this, for those who like this system (and not just because they were early enough to get a claim) why is this a good system for the game?

It's a simple system of checks and balances. Sure the large groups will claim large portions of land which is all fine and dandy. They also stand to benefit from renting out land to smaller companies. The check here is if you can suitably manage your subjects (see tenants) with the amount of land that you hold. Can you control the amount of land you have claimed successfully. All it tales for a large corp to lose land is to simply not pay attention to the political climate of their subjects. If your subjects aren't happy with you they will coalesce and start sabotaging, and eventually, overthrow you. So simply put. They have a large amount of land that they actually have to pay attention to with current system. It is a lot harder to hold onto that land than the small fish renting it realize.

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6 hours ago, Sighdawg said:

Ok first off i never even used the word “hard” so I dont know why you quoted that. Second, the challenge has been the grind to build what we have now and starting with two people. We’ve made new friends and we all do our own thing and tend to our lands. We dont have a constant 30 people online “strip mining” anything. I actually dare you to come to Hudrood Holm in A8 and try to do anything without getting torn apart every 10 min by alphas. 

 

Ive never said this game isnt possible to play solo. I believe it is, but it isnt ideal and I wouldnt recommend it. But i would never recommend playing an MMO solo. 

Well...

9 hours ago, Sighdawg said:

Darksea Dawgs started as 2 and have grown to 30. I 100% agree with Redfisher. The game is meant to be difficult and i wouldnt change a thing. 

 

9 hours ago, redfisher said:

I love the attacks of greed and petty name calling to those who worked hard and earned what they have. Again this PVE style in this game is not traditional PVE. I challenge those complaining to join a bigger tribe. If you are on NA PVE come hang with us (Paragon). I will gladly show you how we got a foot hold as 3 man tribe and grew to 60+ players. The game is made to be hard

I meant to quote you both though.

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This whole idea that the people with claims "worked hard" and others didn't, which is why they don't have a claim is ridiculous.    It's just an attempt to rationalize why people who claimed all the land should keep it and nothing should be changed.

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On 1/14/2019 at 4:59 AM, Sighdawg said:

You’re missing a lot. My point for starters. 

 

Ive nothing to be slighted by other than people who seem to expect things to be handed to them in a game that requires a lot of time and effort. My crew and I have worked for weeks to obtain what we have and we’ve all got 200+ hours in game and a whole island now to show for it. The island is full of Alpha wolves but it’s our island damnit.

The land claim system is fantastic. Don’t change a thing, Grapeshot. 

 

The land claim is fantastic when u have one island for you, and is pure crap for tons of player who have nothing, NOTHING! and live in lawless,for this reason people will leave the game sooner than they expected

 

TWO FLAGS FOR EVERY COMPANY IS MORE THAN ENOUGH FOR A NICE PLAY !

Edited by kolonelu

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43 minutes ago, kolonelu said:

The land claim is fantastic when u have one island for you, and is pure crap for tons of player who have nothing, NOTHING! and live in lawless,for this reason people will leave the game sooner than they expected

  

 TWO FLAGS FOR EVERY COMPANY IS MORE THAN ENOUGH FOR A NICE PLAY !

I understand you have big company (lets assume 100 man) and it works for you with 2 claims? Or now many which are able to have "nice play" with only 2 claims?

1 Sea claims is enough for small company  (2-5 people) - that i can confirm with qualification that overlapping bug has to be fixed, otherwise its not enough.

2 Sea claims is actually best cause you can ensure that resources you use are present (on small island its important).
 

I'm really tired of those "Lets exaggerate as much as I can get away with so they see there is a problem". Its like talking with my 6 years old nephew.

Edited by Elrood
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7 minutes ago, Elrood said:

I understand you have big company (lets assume 100 man) and it works for you with 2 claims? Or now many which are able to have "nice play" with only 2 claims?

1 Sea claims is enough for small company  (2-5 people) - that i can confirm with qualification that overlapping bug has to be fixed, otherwise its not enough.

2 Sea claims is actually best cause you can ensure that resources you use are present (on small island its important).
 

I'm really tired of those "Lets exaggerate as much as I can get away with so they see there is a problem". Its like talking with my 6 years old nephew.

problem is it has and hasn't been fixed, some of the current flags with overlap will remain overlapped because they haven't cleared servers since they dont despawn or change without input. New ones wont be able to overlap but it does nothing for the countless land claims that is already overlapped.

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Just now, Sketch said:

problem is it has and hasn't been fixed, some of the current flags with overlap will remain overlapped because they haven't cleared servers since they dont despawn or change without input. New ones wont be able to overlap but it does nothing for the countless land claims that is already overlapped.

Ah, yes and no. Imho this will die out with time. People will rotate in and out of game and claims will change. At least that's are my hopes. 
At some point hopefully they will add system with which you weren't in game for 30 days, your flags will disappear ... or something similar. 

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2 minutes ago, Elrood said:

Ah, yes and no. Imho this will die out with time. People will rotate in and out of game and claims will change. At least that's are my hopes. 
At some point hopefully they will add system with which you weren't in game for 30 days, your flags will disappear ... or something similar. 

30 days is too long tbh, 10-14 days is more then enough

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Just now, Sketch said:

30 days is too long tbh, 10-14 days is more then enough

14 days means one trip somewhere, medium long business trip or family holiday. 15 and longer days trip are as far as i know very rare but i know families which takes them. For this reason i was thinking 30 days or something equally long. We are in this game for hundreds of hours and most work will be done on ships and bases. You need tone of containers for storing gear and blueprints. And it takes tones of time to get them. For this reason i'm thinking family friendly "decay" time. 

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31 minutes ago, Elrood said:

14 days means one trip somewhere, medium long business trip or family holiday. 15 and longer days trip are as far as i know very rare but i know families which takes them. For this reason i was thinking 30 days or something equally long. We are in this game for hundreds of hours and most work will be done on ships and bases. You need tone of containers for storing gear and blueprints. And it takes tones of time to get them. For this reason i'm thinking family friendly "decay" time. 

ye but it wont be 30 days from when they start playing, it will be 30 days from when the patch happens, so thats all the time + the 30 days. its just a recipe for peeps to quit by then

Edited by Sketch

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1 minute ago, Sketch said:

ye but it wont be 30 days from when they start playing, it will be 30 days from when the patch happens, so thats all the time + the 30 days. its just a recipe for peeps to quit by then

Maybe.
 
Basically it depends on how they would go about it and what they have to work with. If they already store "last login" date data in database, its last login date + 30 days. So assuming they would do it today, somewhere from week to 4 weeks from now.

If they would have to add this information to database, than you are correct, it would be all the time + 30 days. 

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I can understand if someone claims, that PVP server is hard to play solo, but how the hell can someone say that PVE is hard to play solo?

In PVP it is obvious, that joining a bigger group of people is pretty much needed unless you want to end up as a slave on someones island under their protection. There might be ways how to make the game more fair for smaller groups, but never for solo players on a PVP server. PVE is easy if you are atleast somewhat of a decent human being. Treat people with respect and they will repay you with the same. Just like in real life you might come across some random asshole and just like in real life you walk away and try to surround yourself with decent  people. Having a mic helps alot also.

Edited by Loni

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Loni,

 

How as a solo player are you gonna do boss fights and power stones? How are you gonna get beyond the 54 level cap? You need a team. If you dont have one next everyone will start posts about making the end game easier. The socialistic approach in a open world game does not work. you are asking for a sunshine and rainbow game play that is not what the devs had in mind when making a game like this. I think what you are asking for is doable on a unofficial server but no reason to bring the level of play down on the official server.  

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33 minutes ago, redfisher said:

 

How as a solo player are you gonna do boss fights and power stones? How are you gonna get beyond the 54 level cap? You need a team. If you dont have one next everyone will start posts about making the end game easier. The socialistic approach in a open world game does not work. you are asking for a sunshine and rainbow game play that is not what the devs had in mind when making a game like this. I think what you are asking for is doable on a unofficial server but no reason to bring the level of play down on the official server.  

Power stone I will actually try to steal solo - imho doable, will check later this or early next weak. 
How the hell do you know what devs have in mind with them not communicating much is beyond me.
Everyone has been posting about making this game easier for a loooong time.... Not sure how you missed it.

Now here is the thing - you can play this game solo perfectly as far as I've been - i've been doing it from the beggining and right now its easier then ever (minus claims which imho are again broken for everyone and need tweaking). 

So from my point of view devs made this game for solo players too. 

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I agree but there is a wall you will hit. As far as how i know it called reading. have you read the bev notes. looked at any info from before the game was released. They are not going to stop what they are doing just to let players know info that is out there. As people have said in this thread many like the game and enjoy how the claim system is. If you want to play solo that is your choice but dont break the game for those bigger groups and majority of players in game who are happy with the current system. I can say my tribe would probably quite the game if they limit claims and stop us from progressing and being competitive. 

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1 hour ago, Loni said:

I can understand if someone claims, that PVP server is hard to play solo, but how the hell can someone say that PVE is hard to play solo?

In PVP it is obvious, that joining a bigger group of people is pretty much needed unless you want to end up as a slave on someones island under their protection. There might be ways how to make the game more fair for smaller groups, but never for solo players on a PVP server. PVE is easy if you are atleast somewhat of a decent human being. Treat people with respect and they will repay you with the same. Just like in real life you might come across some random asshole and just like in real life you walk away and try to surround yourself with decent  people. Having a mic helps alot also.

Have you not noticed the countless threads about griefing?

It's a nice thought, but just like the real world, Atlas is also full of assholes.

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