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FruitBatCat

Why would anyone rent land?

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After failing to find anywhere to claim I've ended up on lawless which is fine by me tbh as I only have to log on every few days to be completely secure.

I've been thinking about this a lot though, why would anyone want to rent land? I've been offered land to rent many times but I'm simply not interested. You're basically rewarding someone for taking more land than they need.

The system is without any benefits to the renter that I can see, in fact it is counter productive to the renter as it will encourage others to retain land they don't actually need so their chance of ever finding their own claim is diminished every time a rental agreement is made.

There's no protection, no guarantee you won't build up and then the owner adds you to their exclusion list and boom all that is yours is now theirs. You have no protection against them leaving the game or simply getting their claim contested.

It's not a fun mechanic at all and I can't see why anyone would rent. I feel it's a fundamentally flawed system in the game and will encourage more people to leave than continue playing.

I'm genuinely interested in people's opinions on this, for those who like this system (and not just because they were early enough to get a claim) why is this a good system for the game?

Edited by FruitBatCat
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Hue hue hue.... 

By stupid mistake I've left open a claim. And someone else build a taming trap, blocking tone of resources in convenient place for me. I've changed it back to company only and now i have to wait 3 RL DAYS to demolish the trap and 10 DAYS to demolish the containers. And no, i can't access containers. 

Yeah.... you are really in danger if I add you to exclusion list. You have more protection than my claims if I'm not sleeping inside them.

And you know what? There is no way I'm going to left any claim open for everybody. If someone comes along and has basics of good behavior covered than i will consider including him on my "claim for rent". Otherwise?! Hell no. Not, if first people who came by blocked tone of stuff, tamed elephant and went away leaving trash behind.

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10 minutes ago, Elrood said:

And no, i can't access containers. 

But you can wall them off? Enclose them so only u can access them and collect the loot when u demolish?

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I have tried doing the lawless base. The problem is that every time the timer runs out on something you have built others will destroy it so they can move in to. The whole land thing is a mess.

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ELROOD has a point. With so many toxic players in games like this, is a shoot-in-yourown-foot allow rent a place for somebody that you don't know which thoughts has.

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Renting land is a mechanic they got from eve. they are suceeding in their eve/ark mix of gaming. and its a good system, as long as you dont build on trolls lands. ive got three people building on 3 different areas that we control, we set a 15% tax rate adn we benefit while they get land, dont have to worry about flag maitenence, and are pretty much protected from getting their stuff taken. 

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It’s an MMO people. The point is to mingle with other players in the game. So TALK to your landlord. Make friends. That’s the whole point!!!! Or don’t. Complain about a fantastic game that you feel is slighting you because someone else has put in time and effort into creating something wonderful with their group of friends. 

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Yeah, please PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard jack shit from the devs about fixing this terrible claim system. I think they like it the way it is as insane as that sounds.

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48 minutes ago, Sighdawg said:

It’s an MMO people. The point is to mingle with other players in the game. So TALK to your landlord. Make friends. That’s the whole point!!!! Or don’t. Complain about a fantastic game that you feel is slighting you because someone else has put in time and effort into creating something wonderful with their group of friends. 

Sensitive much? Don't think anybody except you feels slighted here, just discussing a mechanic.

& tbh not many ppl make friends with their landlord, a master / serf relationship is not usually condusive to friendship. Better to fight a common enemy? Have to achieve a common goal? I am just curious what the devs intend here, the majority of players in this scheme will be serfs and I don't know of many people who want to play a game where there feel they are getting a worse deal than another player Just human nature.

This mechanic just doesn't seem to be attractive or fun to the majority of players to me. Am I missing something? If so, please explain.

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You’re missing a lot. My point for starters. 

 

Ive nothing to be slighted by other than people who seem to expect things to be handed to them in a game that requires a lot of time and effort. My crew and I have worked for weeks to obtain what we have and we’ve all got 200+ hours in game and a whole island now to show for it. The island is full of Alpha wolves but it’s our island damnit.

The land claim system is fantastic. Don’t change a thing, Grapeshot. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Sighdawg said:

You’re missing a lot. My point for starters. 

 

Ive nothing to be slighted by other than people who seem to expect things to be handed to them in a game that requires a lot of time and effort. My crew and I have worked for weeks to obtain what we have and we’ve all got 200+ hours in game and a whole island now to show for it. The island is full of Alpha wolves but it’s our island damnit.

The land claim system is fantastic. Don’t change a thing, Grapeshot. 

 

exactly, I own half of the island im on, working on getting the rest. We even reorginized flags to allow people to live on our island. Its a nice place, and we all work together. The system is actually fantastic, and does remind me of nullsec in eve. to me , they achieved their goal of getting that right.

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6 hours ago, mizunami said:

exactly, I own half of the island im on, working on getting the rest. We even reorginized flags to allow people to live on our island. Its a nice place, and we all work together. The system is actually fantastic, and does remind me of nullsec in eve. to me , they achieved their goal of getting that right.

Hmm, may i ask where i could find this Island of Happiness and Pina Coladas, so i can eventually take a  taxed Spot?

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13 hours ago, FruitBatCat said:

After failing to find anywhere to claim I've ended up on lawless which is fine by me tbh as I only have to log on every few days to be completely secure.

I've been thinking about this a lot though, why would anyone want to rent land? I've been offered land to rent many times but I'm simply not interested. You're basically rewarding someone for taking more land than they need.

The system is without any benefits to the renter that I can see, in fact it is counter productive to the renter as it will encourage others to retain land they don't actually need so their chance of ever finding their own claim is diminished every time a rental agreement is made.

There's no protection, no guarantee you won't build up and then the owner adds you to their exclusion list and boom all that is yours is now theirs. You have no protection against them leaving the game or simply getting their claim contested.

It's not a fun mechanic at all and I can't see why anyone would rent. I feel it's a fundamentally flawed system in the game and will encourage more people to leave than continue playing.

I'm genuinely interested in people's opinions on this, for those who like this system (and not just because they were early enough to get a claim) why is this a good system for the game?

What you said has already happened and is happening now. renting is a terrible idea, yes the rent % is lowish but doesnt stop peeps greifing by taking all they built back or just demoing for free mats and the game would be ok with this as its not against tos.

The renter is always the one that loses in this situation. Unless the renter makes tons of buildings killing all the respawns, then they both lose.

Edited by Sketch
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10 hours ago, Sighdawg said:

It’s an MMO people. The point is to mingle with other players in the game. So TALK to your landlord. Make friends. That’s the whole point!!!! Or don’t. Complain about a fantastic game that you feel is slighting you because someone else has put in time and effort into creating something wonderful with their group of friends. 

Aw, how trusting.  I just KNOW some people will take advantage of someone who lets people build on their Claim.  They'll just sail around pillar-spamming the crap out of anywhere rash enough to let them build there, just for the giggles.

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This renting claim system is a super "trust" heavy mechanic. In many scenarios, the one who builds on someones flag is in risk of literally losing everything except the stuff he has in boxes or locked containers. All the building he did is wasted if the one who owns the claims one day decides to screw you over.

Edited by Loni
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1 hour ago, Loni said:

This renting claim system is a super "trust" heavy mechanic. In many scenarios, the one who builds on someones flag is in risk of literally losing everything except the stuff he has in boxes or locked containers. All the building he did is wasted if the one who owns the claims one day decides to screw you over.

This is assuming the containers are on the ground and not on destructible floor. If you demo the floor under a container, it will spill all it's contents.

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21 minutes ago, Axden1 said:

This is assuming the containers are on the ground and not on destructible floor. If you demo the floor under a container, it will spill all it's contents.

I know, but from what I seen it has a timer before it can be destroyed.

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4 hours ago, Coggage said:

Aw, how trusting.  I just KNOW some people will take advantage of someone who lets people build on their Claim.  They'll just sail around pillar-spamming the crap out of anywhere rash enough to let them build there, just for the giggles.

 

Its a two way street, similar to circumstances in actual reality, and thus, in my opinion makes for a pretty realistic game. 

Sure, it sucks not owning your own land, however, not having to constantly defend flags or walk the lands to check for trolls would be nice too. I can attest that this is necessary if you own a large sum of land on one island or many. Obviously, it becomes more tedious the more you own and theyve made it to where it takes less time to take a companies land if they own over a certain amount.

And yeah, a tenant might end up with a shitty landlord who will take your hard earned work.  But thats the social aspect im talking about. Find the owner and ask to settle or try and steal the land from them! Chances are they stole it from someone else. 

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Isee both sides of the argument. But it's not the only argument. Some will argue this is a large company game, others don't believe that you have to Company up at all. The rent system favors the solo, or 2-3 man group paying rent to larger companies. But it doesn't leave alot of room for small mid sized companies to grow. 

And for those of you with entire islands who want to bitch that others just want things handed to them, most of you had just that. The ability to log into game the first few days and go out and claim up land Willy nilly. Those of us that got screwed by a pre Alpha network code didn't get that chance, even if we did pay and download the Minute it released.

 I'll be fine if they keep the land claim system, just do I wipe once they have connection issues sorted out and give everyone a fair shake. But that won't resolve issues for Grapeshot, because players buying the game in the future are gonna feel the same way, and that is going to reduce sales. And in the end that screws us all, less sales, less money into game development.

  Society as a whole is greedy and selfish. It's up to the devs to make it balanced. And right now the ones who like the system on PVE are the land holders, the ones that don't are living in lawless. That simple

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17 minutes ago, Sighdawg said:

Sure, it sucks not owning your own land, however, not having to constantly defend flags or walk the lands to check for trolls would be nice too....

...And yeah, a tenant might end up with a shitty landlord who will take your hard earned work.  But thats the social aspect im talking about. Find the owner and ask to settle or try and steal the land from them! Chances are they stole it from someone else. 

For your first point, I'd rather stay in Lawless where my 'tenancy' didn't depend on the whim of the Claim owner or the possibility (near-certainty?) that the owner would lose their Claim at some point.  At least in Lawless "my" base and structures are guaranteed to stay in my possession as long as I log in every 3 to 4 days, which is more than can be said for living in someone else's Claim.  With the crappy state of the Claim system at the moment there's little guarantee I'd be able to keep my own Claim even if I was Active in it.

I, for one, would never let anyone build on a Claim of mine.  You didn't mention my point about "tenants" who would just pillar-spam your claim for shits and giggles.  Certain people love doing this just to block people in so they can't build any further in Lawless, and they'd have a whale of a time putting 40+ Pillars down in some poor trusting player's Claim.

As for the second point, It's all very well saying talk to the owner - I haven't seen ANY of my neighbours in days, and even then it was a fleeting glimpse of someone Gathering and it might not even have been an actual neighbour.  I can't imagine much chance of seeing the owner based on that basis.  The "Social Aspect" in Atlas seems non-existent.  I think I have spoken to two people since I settled on Lawless a week ago.  People don't seem inclined to be sociable in this game... they're not hostile or anything, just not interested in other players. 

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this is a recurring thing on the forums. This game is about politics and choices. Does not matter if you are in PVE or PVP. The whole game is designed to have big tribes and small tribes. Big tribes will help to secure large land and drive the economy. Small tribes will fight for a small chunk or settle in as renters. This is by design. I come from a big tribe on NA PVE. We spend most of our time competing for top slot on land claims. Most of our shore land is open for people to build on. We have had great success letting people build. We control all of our big rss spots and exclude them from being built on. We talk to people who build on our claims and they are loving it. I hope the devs do not change this system as i feel it is one of the best features of the game. 

As for the renters you have a choice. This is a pirate style of game. Much like the wild west time frame there are not a lot of rules. You have choices to make. The wrong choice could cost you a lot. dont assume just cause someones land is open to build it is yours. If you make this mistake you may be building on an angry pirates land who will steal your precious time. There are pirates in this game and there are good people in this game. The choice is yours on what you want to be and who you want to do business with. 

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17 minutes ago, Huck Finnley said:

Isee both sides of the argument. But it's not the only argument. Some will argue this is a large company game, others don't believe that you have to Company up at all. The rent system favors the solo, or 2-3 man group paying rent to larger companies. But it doesn't leave alot of room for small mid sized companies to grow. 

And for those of you with entire islands who want to bitch that others just want things handed to them, most of you had just that. The ability to log into game the first few days and go out and claim up land Willy nilly. Those of us that got screwed by a pre Alpha network code didn't get that chance, even if we did pay and download the Minute it released.

 I'll be fine if they keep the land claim system, just do I wipe once they have connection issues sorted out and give everyone a fair shake. But that won't resolve issues for Grapeshot, because players buying the game in the future are gonna feel the same way, and that is going to reduce sales. And in the end that screws us all, less sales, less money into game development.

  Society as a whole is greedy and selfish. It's up to the devs to make it balanced. And right now the ones who like the system on PVE are the land holders, the ones that don't are living in lawless. That simple

I can tell you no one who has land was just given it. I cant tell you the amount of nights defending our land or fighting with others to steal land. Countless hours have gone in to the land most big tribes have. They have even made it easier to steal the land from the big tribes now. We are finding more and more land we can take now. 

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I'm afraid on PVE I'd have to disagree, once 2 or 3 mega tribes control the whole server, that's who will be fighting over the land. Anyone new or small will be forced to play by thier rules or just don't play. There has to be a system of checks and balances to give more folks a more equal shot to thier own success in game. Every SUCCESSFUL MMO understands that each paying customer has to be afforded the same opportunities and let them decide how to play. This system sets it up to a few megas to make those decisions for other players. And IMO reduces the successful growth of revenue. Which in turn takes away from you the player

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Look at it from another side, what is the point of designing a 40,000 man server system, and paying for those resources, if you have a system in place that allows 4,000 people to take over the server, and maybe a couple thousand more willing to play with those folks, just to have to open another server, spend money on more resources, just to attract more cusromers. Doesn't seem like an efficient business model

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