Resources and Trading

[ButtPirate 50]

If every island has every resource what is the point behind the trade system or player shops even?

Also in polar regions there is no wood or fibers on these island, every island should have the basics. Stone,Wood,Fiber,Hide, and Thatch.

There is sea weed growing in the ocean near these islands they could give fibers. Maybe add drift wood to get wood and thatch to these islands. Polar regions should be harder to survive but they also should have the basic resources.

[Sydhart 163]

You can get fiber from the sea weed in the polar region but you have to get to the deep areas. When you first start though it's too deep to reach and you will drown without getting the full swimming and underwater breath abilities or in the survival tree or go into the ship building to get a dive suit. 

I completely agree they should make the seaweed in the shallower areas provide fiber as well. You can see it and it looks the same but is not harvestable.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Sydhart

[Realist 504]

8 hours ago, ButtPirate said:

If every island has every resource what is the point behind the trade system or player shops even?

Also in polar regions there is no wood or fibers on these island, every island should have the basics. Stone,Wood,Fiber,Hide, and Thatch.

There is sea weed growing in the ocean near these islands they could give fibers. Maybe add drift wood to get wood and thatch to these islands. Polar regions should be harder to survive but they also should have the basic resources.

To be honest nobody cares about trade. They really don’t. The devs don’t either. 

Trade companies will never be an efficient thing. Lucky when the player shops open it will rid the game of trade companies all together since it will be automated and no interaction will be needed.

never liked the idea of trade companies anyways. It’s good to see they are doing what they can to get rid of them 

edit: there is no point behind the trade system because the trade system isn’t real. A couple players wanted it but it’s not a thing

Edited April 10, 2019 by Realist

[DannyUK 308]

What are the player shops all about? I haven't seen them in action if they are in game right now that is. Are you able to put any resource in the shop like fibre, wood etc? Or is it just certain items?

If you could put resources in there then I wouldn't mind it, they should have 1 NPC in freeport where you can goto and it lists all companies on a list and you can access information that way you can sail to their region to pick up supplies, so the NPC in freeport is like an order point, just throwing an idea out there though.

[Willard 245]

I guess its made for obtaining different kinds of materials. You can have silver on your grid, other have copper, u trade it etc.

[Realist 504]

54 minutes ago, DannyUK said:

What are the player shops all about? I haven't seen them in action if they are in game right now that is. Are you able to put any resource in the shop like fibre, wood etc? Or is it just certain items?

If you could put resources in there then I wouldn't mind it, they should have 1 NPC in freeport where you can goto and it lists all companies on a list and you can access information that way you can sail to their region to pick up supplies, so the NPC in freeport is like an order point, just throwing an idea out there though.

I am sure you don’t sail to the region and get it from them. You probably pick it up at the player shops. Like they leave the materials in the shop and then people go there and buy it.

so the people won’t actually see each other. The transaction is automated 

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

7 hours ago, Realist said:

To be honest nobody cares about trade. They really don’t. The devs don’t either. 

Trade companies will never be an efficient thing. Lucky when the player shops open it will rid the game of trade companies all together since it will be automated and no interaction will be needed.

never liked the idea of trade companies anyways. It’s good to see they are doing what they can to get rid of them 

edit: there is no point behind the trade system because the trade system isn’t real. A couple players wanted it but it’s not a thing

Don’t make assertions about what any large portion of the player base cares about or doesn’t care about because you cannot possibly know for sure. I care about trade and belong to a discord channel set up specifically for players looking to do trade as an ongoing thing. There are certainly more than “a couple players” belonging to just this one channel.

YOU might not care about trade. Whether the devs care about trade is an open question but they have said from the beginning that they were looking to pattern Atlas on Eve. Guess what Eve is universally acknowledged to have among online games? The most developed, complex, and in depth economy and trading systems by far.

This post is really showing the bad gamer habit of asserting that your own likes and dislikes are true across the entire player base.

[Realist 504]

2 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Don’t make assertions about what any large portion of the player base cares about or doesn’t care about because you cannot possibly know for sure. I care about trade and belong to a discord channel set up specifically for players looking to do trade as an ongoing thing. There are certainly more than “a couple players” belonging to just this one channel.

YOU might not care about trade. Whether the devs care about trade is an open question but they have said from the beginning that they were looking to pattern Atlas on Eve. Guess what Eve is universally acknowledged to have among online games? The most developed, complex, and in depth economy and trading systems by far.

This post is really showing the bad gamer habit of asserting that your own likes and dislikes are true across the entire player base.

I am just going off me seeing only a few posts here about trading. And those posts are mainly just saying they want better trading but that’s it. So if the devs have seen what I have here I would think that they have come to the same conclusion that it isnt able to be considered a hot issue.

i mean the addition of player shops is a good indication they don’t care for trade either. Automation of the player shops makes it to where no interaction is needed.

and I don’t consider that trading at all. That is more like a business has something on the rack and you go to the store and buy it off the rack.

the trade people want others traveling far distances or the traders to travel to bring the merchandise to them for the rp experience of it I guess. The thing is that is already old school. Player shops shows that. It will be nice to have a wow auction house type set up to where nobody needs to see anybody. Just go to the store and pick up what you want. Faster and more efficient.

in a game where you constantly have to be progressing, believe me people want their stuff now. They don’t want to wait a day or hours to get it.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

3 minutes ago, Realist said:

I am just going off me seeing only a few posts here about trading. And those posts are mainly just saying they want better trading but that’s it. So if the devs have seen what I have here I would think that they have come to the same conclusion that it isnt able to be considered a hot issue.

i mean the addition of player shops is a good indication they don’t care for trade either. Automation of the player shops makes it to where no interaction is needed.

and I don’t consider that trading at all. That is more like a business has something on the rack and you go to the store and buy it off the rack.

the trade people want others traveling far distances or the traders to travel to bring the merchandise to them for the rp experience of it I guess. The thing is that is already old school. Player shops shows that. It will be nice to have a wow auction house type set up to where nobody needs to see anybody. Just go to the store and pick up what you want. Faster and more efficient.

in a game where you constantly have to be progressing, believe me people want their stuff now. They don’t want to wait a day or hours to get it.

Okay but pretty significant observation bias in what you're saying leading to your off base conclusion. Most of the discussion of trade hasn't gone on here, it has happened in other places like discord and ingame, primarily because traders want to be able to talk to each other directly in real time to hash out deals and (note this because it addresses another flawed understanding you express later in your post) ongoing trade relationships.  Your comments about the auction house completely miss the point of what some people are actually looking for in Atlas. Old world actual trade as part of the play experience, where you have to move stuff from point A to point B and take into account all that that entails like dealing with weather, other players etc.

Part of what traders are looking to do is setup ongoing networks where people who have resource A at point B regularly take it to folks at points C, D and E to trade them for things they have there which aren't readily available at A. You may find this boring or pointless. I assure you others do not, it is part of what they are looking for in Atlas. To each his own, but fostering exactly this sort of thing is almost certainly part of why the devs created Atlas as one giant world with different resources available in different areas but not universally so, hence why lots of different smaller servers with smaller grids (ie most unofficials) don't fit the concept as well.

[Realist 504]

19 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Don’t make assertions about what any large portion of the player base cares about or doesn’t care about because you cannot possibly know for sure. I care about trade and belong to a discord channel set up specifically for players looking to do trade as an ongoing thing. There are certainly more than “a couple players” belonging to just this one channel.

YOU might not care about trade. Whether the devs care about trade is an open question but they have said from the beginning that they were looking to pattern Atlas on Eve. Guess what Eve is universally acknowledged to have among online games? The most developed, complex, and in depth economy and trading systems by far.

This post is really showing the bad gamer habit of asserting that your own likes and dislikes are true across the entire player base.

Here is how I see it as far as trade companies not being needed or even efficient.

yoy have to go through all this grinding to progress. Getting a ship so you can get an island. Getting the tames to then help you get a base, then getting defenses for the base so you still have one when you log in. If you want to raid you need to get better boats etc.

with trade companies you have to contact them or wait till you are contacted. You let them know what you need and then you negotiate the price. Then you either wait for the merchandise or you go get it.

that just isnt efficient for this game. By the time all that takes places they could have just went and got it themselves, especially if the merch they need is for something they are currently working on and need it ASAP.

now come the player shops. These will be awesome. Automated so not time is wasted negations a price. You know exactly where to go to get it so you don’t have to wait for the traders to bring it or try to find the meet up spot to get it. You also don’t have to waste time talking to people m. You can just buy your stuff and get back to progression.

trade companies are probably a really good thing for pve(this isn’t an insult to pve or pvp), but for pvp players shops are the best thing that could have happened to pvp

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

7 minutes ago, Realist said:

Here is how I see it as far as trade companies not being needed or even efficient.

yoy have to go through all this grinding to progress. Getting a ship so you can get an island. Getting the tames to then help you get a base, then getting defenses for the base so you still have one when you log in. If you want to raid you need to get better boats etc.

with trade companies you have to contact them or wait till you are contacted. You let them know what you need and then you negotiate the price. Then you either wait for the merchandise or you go get it.

that just isnt efficient for this game. By the time all that takes places they could have just went and got it themselves, especially if the merch they need is for something they are currently working on and need it ASAP.

now come the player shops. These will be awesome. Automated so not time is wasted negations a price. You know exactly where to go to get it so you don’t have to wait for the traders to bring it or try to find the meet up spot to get it. You also don’t have to waste time talking to people m. You can just buy your stuff and get back to progression.

trade companies are probably a really good thing for pve(this isn’t an insult to pve or pvp), but for pvp players shops are the best thing that could have happened to pvp

In theory large convoys of trade goods protected by fighting ships from other (wait for it) pirates could be a potentially awesome blending of pve and pvp mechanics that could create excitement for everyone. On a practical level with what they have so far and how most people prefer to approach pvp, I am inclined to agree this isn't how it would play out and player shops are the approach that better fits the practical realities of a pvp environment, but surely you aren't falling into that old fallacy of thinking pvp is all that matters or that pve represents some small minority of the playerbase (nearly always a laughable assertion in any MMO that has both). Unfortunately your earlier comment that nobody cares about trade seems to imply this. Obviously most players focused to a large degree on trade would gravitate towards the pve side of a game which has both modes. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by boomervoncannon

[Realist 504]

6 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Okay but pretty significant observation bias in what you're saying leading to your off base conclusion. Most of the discussion of trade hasn't gone on here, it has happened in other places like discord and ingame, primarily because traders want to be able to talk to each other directly in real time to hash out deals and (note this because it addresses another flawed understanding you express later in your post) ongoing trade relationships.  Your comments about the auction house completely miss the point of what some people are actually looking for in Atlas. Old world actual trade as part of the play experience, where you have to move stuff from point A to point B and take into account all that that entails like dealing with weather, other players etc.

Part of what traders are looking to do is setup ongoing networks where people who have resource A at point B regularly take it to folks at points C, D and E to trade them for things they have there which aren't readily available at A. You may find this boring or pointless. I assure you others do not, it is part of what they are looking for in Atlas. To each his own, but fostering exactly this sort of thing is almost certainly part of why the devs created Atlas as one giant world with different resources available in different areas but not universally so, hence why lots of different smaller servers with smaller grids (ie most unofficials) don't fit the concept as well.

Hey man, I am not saying they are wrong for wanting it. But yes you are right I wouldn’t want to do it. 

But with you saying all of that(which is fine) the player shops definitely counter act with all of the above. So even if my assumption of players was wrong(very well could be) my assumption of the devs kind of looks pretty logical since they are adding in player shops.

i am sure the traders won’t like playershops because it would take a way from that experience, but it will make things a lot more efficient.

i think the real problem here boomer isn’t whether I dislike it or you and others do like it, I think it is about what the game has become. When success is based on progression rp/trade/community type of gameplay really just goes out the window.

i wish it didn’t have to be that way. With Megas around you have to constantly worry about defense. Doesn’t leave much time for that stuff.

this game has become a build a boat. Then get some tames, then build a base, then build better ships and go raid people. Oh and try to be in the top 10.

i don’t want that to be the way the game is but it sure is turning out to be that way. I the game was different I wouldn’t see a problem with all the trade. Like if it was actually like an mmo and not ark. Sorry but I am going to say it again, the way this game plays is ark.

it could be a lot different but it’s not

[Realist 504]

2 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

In theory large convoys of trade goods protected by fighting ships from other (wait for it) pirates could be a potentially awesome blending of pve and pvp mechanics that could create excitement for everyone. On a practical level with what they have so far and how most people prefer to approach pvp, I am inclined to agree this isn't how it would play out and player shops are the approach that better fits the practical realities of a pvp environment, but surely you aren't falling into that old fallacy of thinking pvp is all that matters or that pve represents some small minority of the playerbase (nearly always a laughable assertion in any MMO that has both). Unfortunately your earlier comment that nobody cares about trade seems to imply this. Obviously most players focused to a large degree on trade would gravitate towards the pve side of a game which has both modes. 

Dude the scenario you just described would be f$@@& awesome. That is what I was hoping for the game. That would be nice to see that many people working together like that true mmo style(I still say factions are needed).

hey, no no no. I in no way said pve didn’t matter. I might even play pve myself if it makes it to console. I do not do that in anyway on any game towards pve people. If you notice I stick up for then a lot on here.

having said all this, unfortunately with how the game went that is all a dream. And it is a shame because I had a vision similar to yours. This is ark man. I am not saying that to start an argument, but as far as gameplay goes that is what it is.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

4 minutes ago, Realist said:

Hey man, I am not saying they are wrong for wanting it. But yes you are right I wouldn’t want to do it. 

But with you saying all of that(which is fine) the player shops definitely counter act with all of the above. So even if my assumption of players was wrong(very well could be) my assumption of the devs kind of looks pretty logical since they are adding in player shops.

i am sure the traders won’t like playershops because it would take a way from that experience, but it will make things a lot more efficient.

i think the real problem here boomer isn’t whether I dislike it or you and others do like it, I think it is about what the game has become. When success is based on progression rp/trade/community type of gameplay really just goes out the window.

i wish it didn’t have to be that way. With Megas around you have to constantly worry about defense. Doesn’t leave much time for that stuff.

this game has become a build a boat. Then get some tames, then build a base, then build better ships and go raid people. Oh and try to be in the top 10.

i don’t want that to be the way the game is but it sure is turning out to be that way. I the game was different I wouldn’t see a problem with all the trade. Like if it was actually like an mmo and not ark. Sorry but I am going to say it again, the way this game plays is ark.

it could be a lot different but it’s not

I agree that almost regardless of what anyone wants or wanted from Atlas, and many different people wanted many different things, so far it doesn't seem to be turning out to be what very many of us wanted at all. That is fixable, but long is the road and hard is the way out of hell that leads up to heaven, to quote Paradise Lost, and right now Atlas feels a lot more like MMO hell than MMO heaven.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

23 hours ago, ButtPirate said:

If every island has every resource what is the point behind the trade system or player shops even?

Also in polar regions there is no wood or fibers on these island, every island should have the basics. Stone,Wood,Fiber,Hide, and Thatch.

There is sea weed growing in the ocean near these islands they could give fibers. Maybe add drift wood to get wood and thatch to these islands. Polar regions should be harder to survive but they also should have the basic resources.

Every island should have what is needed to make vanilla stuff.  You should need to trade to make BP stuff.  A suggestion for the sugar on polar islands is the resin bushes from tundra islands.  There should be literally no island without ALL resources for the basics.  Every last resource should be available from salt, to sugar, to fiber, to gems, to metal nodes.   You cannot have a PvP game where some islands put you at a severe disadvantage.  Especially when those who will have to settle for those resource poor islands, are the same people already at a disadvantage, and especially when the mechanics of the game make cargo not very tenable.

PvE is completely different.  You could make it such that no island in a grid has every resource for vanilla, but the grid itself does.  This is because you aren't really competing with anybody.

Tames are another thing that is severely imbalanced in PvP.  All predators should be viable options.

[Azurfale 4]

to respond to the OP, islands might have every type of resource, but they dont have every type of every type of resource, and thats why there is player trading.

[Azurfale 4]

10 hours ago, Realist said:

Here is how I see it as far as trade companies not being needed or even efficient.

yoy have to go through all this grinding to progress. Getting a ship so you can get an island. Getting the tames to then help you get a base, then getting defenses for the base so you still have one when you log in. If you want to raid you need to get better boats etc.

with trade companies you have to contact them or wait till you are contacted. You let them know what you need and then you negotiate the price. Then you either wait for the merchandise or you go get it.

that just isnt efficient for this game. By the time all that takes places they could have just went and got it themselves, especially if the merch they need is for something they are currently working on and need it ASAP.

now come the player shops. These will be awesome. Automated so not time is wasted negations a price. You know exactly where to go to get it so you don’t have to wait for the traders to bring it or try to find the meet up spot to get it. You also don’t have to waste time talking to people m. You can just buy your stuff and get back to progression.

trade companies are probably a really good thing for pve(this isn’t an insult to pve or pvp), but for pvp players shops are the best thing that could have happened to pvp

As an example I used to go to harvest different woods from different regions, in the end i discovered it was easier to just bring wood from my region and trade it for the wood i wanted, saving time.

 

edit: Also being able to trade directly with another player is a much better option than dropping everything on the ground for them to pick up.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Azurfale

[Realist 504]

1 hour ago, Azurfale said:

As an example I used to go to harvest different woods from different regions, in the end i discovered it was easier to just bring wood from my region and trade it for the wood i wanted, saving time.

 

edit: Also being able to trade directly with another player is a much better option than dropping everything on the ground for them to pick up.

Imigine with the player shops though. You could just go to the player shop in the Freeport. Buy exactly what you want and then head home. No waiting or anything. That will be very efficient 

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

1 hour ago, Realist said:

Imigine with the player shops though. 

Imagine there’s no megas

Its easy if you try

No slaves below us

Above our sails only sky

 

Imagine all the pirates

plundering for today  ya ha arrrr

 

Imagine there’s no land claim 

It isn’t hard to do

Nothing to drive you bonkers

And no countdown timers too

 

Imagine all the pirates

plundering the grid in peace

 

You May say that I’m a dreamer

but I’m not the only one

I hope someday the devs will join us

and get these @#$&ing changes done

 

(With apologies to the incomparable John Lennon)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Remo 43]

some of these posts just make me want to pound my head against a desk.....

first off you dont get trading ect...

well this is how pve trading works....

for example

a noob walks into a bar

jk hehe

your screwing around solo, dont know much, your stuck on a raft at a freeport floating around....., youve logged in and out, dont know ftw is going on, your discouraged, typing in chat your problem, some guy says eat shit.  you say wtf is your problem? they say, just eat shit to die, then you say, i dont have shit, they say well punch the air till you die, you punch air till you die.

wow man thanks!

can i join your company i got to learn

np

once in company you realize your part of a trade alliance chat, now at same time your surfing the net checking official forums out and nut jobs are posting lvl 30 bears for 2000g and this pve alliance chat is selling them for 250 tin or whatever

why ? because of the human touch...

 these people become friends, not all lol but theres an unspoken undestanding , we hear , see , chat and those names become people, real people, and we begin to respect each other and  trade fair, we begin to talk , chat , set up power runs. it can be  really fun .

for example i met this nut job on alliance, murgle... he took me on a magic carpet ride to get my elephant, he greeted me on the port of his base and took me on a bear carriage ride, swerved  the bear so the carriage unseated me, so i landed on a crock lol said sorry oops and i got back in and he bounced my ass into another crock, that was his thing he did that with all first timers coming to trade. he also RPed his accent, really sounded like a nut job until you spoke to him on discord OOC lol

lol had a blast and became friends.

 do that with a vending machine....

automated tellers are shit just like self check out cashiers in stores irl

 toss the human touch out and it just becomes that much more generic and boring.

 people please stop suggesting how to make the game generic and boring because you want everything spoon fed to you.

 

Peace.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Remo

[gnihar 111]

22 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Imagine there’s no megas

Its easy if you try

No slaves below us

Above our sails only sky

 

Imagine all the pirates

plundering for today  ya ha arrrr

 

Imagine there’s no land claim 

It isn’t hard to do

Nothing to drive you bonkers

And no countdown timers too

 

Imagine all the pirates

plundering the grid in peace

 

You May say that I’m a dreamer

but I’m not the only one

I hope someday the devs will join us

and get these @#$&ing changes done

 

(With apologies to the incomparable John Lennon)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lots of verses for "pirates" when it's not the pirate game at all xD

[Realist 504]

1 hour ago, boomervoncannon said:

Imagine there’s no megas

Its easy if you try

No slaves below us

Above our sails only sky

 

Imagine all the pirates

plundering for today  ya ha arrrr

 

Imagine there’s no land claim 

It isn’t hard to do

Nothing to drive you bonkers

And no countdown timers too

 

Imagine all the pirates

plundering the grid in peace

 

You May say that I’m a dreamer

but I’m not the only one

I hope someday the devs will join us

and get these @#$&ing changes done

 

(With apologies to the incomparable John Lennon)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not too bad man. Pretty damn good actually

[Realist 504]

1 hour ago, Remo said:

some of these posts just make me want to pound my head against a desk.....

first off you dont get trading ect...

well this is how pve trading works....

for example

a noob walks into a bar

jk hehe

your screwing around solo, dont know much, your stuck on a raft at a freeport floating around....., youve logged in and out, dont know ftw is going on, your discouraged, typing in chat your problem, some guy says eat shit.  you say wtf is your problem? they say, just eat shit to die, then you say, i dont have shit, they say well punch the air till you die, you punch air till you die.

wow man thanks!

can i join your company i got to learn

np

once in company you realize your part of a trade alliance chat, now at same time your surfing the net checking official forums out and nut jobs are posting lvl 30 bears for 2000g and this pve alliance chat is selling them for 250 tin or whatever

why ? because of the human touch...

 these people become friends, not all lol but theres an unspoken undestanding , we hear , see , chat and those names become people, real people, and we begin to respect each other and  trade fair, we begin to talk , chat , set up power runs. it can be  really fun .

for example i met this nut job on alliance, murgle... he took me on a magic carpet ride to get my elephant, he greeted me on the port of his base and took me on a bear carriage ride, swerved  the bear so the carriage unseated me, so i landed on a crock lol said sorry oops and i got back in and he bounced my ass into another crock, that was his thing he did that with all first timers coming to trade. he also RPed his accent, really sounded like a nut job until you spoke to him on discord OOC lol

lol had a blast and became friends.

 do that with a vending machine....

automated tellers are shit just like self check out cashiers in stores irl

 toss the human touch out and it just becomes that much more generic and boring.

 people please stop suggesting how to make the game generic and boring because you want everything spoon fed to you.

 

Peace.

Hey that was a pretty good story actually. Yes I am serious. Good read.

but you realize you said pve right? That is not going to happen in pvp lmao no way

having said that, in my earlier post I said trade co pa ones would be good for pve and I truly believe that.

they don’t have a place in pvp at all. Player shops will probably be the single most important addition to pvp. Yes that it my opinion and I am not saying everyone agrees.

either way, pve=trade companies and pvp=player shops.