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Redrick

Current 9h wartime is too long

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The problem with 9 hours is this...You go to work, and that is 8 hours, and a half hour for lunch, typically.  So just from the time you arrive at work, to the time you leave, is 8 hours.  So then, you have to sleep.  8 hours is recommended.  Now add in that you have to shower, and get dressed, and commute to and from work.  This leaves about 6 hours left for us to do what we need to do, and want to do...it's our free time.  But you also need to eat dinner.  You need to do your laundry.  You need to take trash out.  You have go to the store.  I mean look, I can list hundreds of things that real life requires us to do, which is why I had suggested that raids only take place with a war token, with cool downs, etc...

 

Conan has 5 hour raid windows, and yet, the one day me and my friends weren't able to get online for the start, we log in to find the Alpha clan in our base.  So much fun.  So we left the server.  Left the game.  Even 5 hours a day require you to spend nearly the equivalent of a full work week...in a game.  The game literally becomes a job, unless you just don't care what happens in the game.  I mean, you can look to see who is online for 10 hours a day, in these games, and you know who doesn't have a girlfriend/wife.

 

As I understand it, a sizable company in this game, just got wiped today, so they all quit.  We had a couple of guys log in to find that their ships had been sunk while they were not able to log in and play.  So they quit.  It's a problem that these types of games have.  A game like Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc., you log in and play when you can, and there are no negative consequences for having a life outside of the game.  But games like this require you to be online constantly, or bad things are more likely to happen if you aren't in game.  There is no easy answer to fixing this.

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It will not be possible to make offline raiding go away... it is the best time to raid...
It will not be possible to make you only raid-able when you are online, especially when it is the island that is protected/raid-able (one man company being always offline would make un-raid-able)...

Sooo, again, if offline raiding cannot be stopped without breaking all PVP... make the defenses so that offline raiding is no longer a walk in the park while shooting fish (puckles and cannons) in barrel...
It does not mean that they cannot wipe you... but if your defenses are toxic enough they will go for an easier target... and if they still want to wipe you, it will cost them...
Right now people are quitting (again) because what ever they try they cannot secure their stuff and don't see how to rebuild (again) to continue...
Same as the small people that see their anchored ships sunk too easy and cannot be bothered to rebuild that (again)...

If they cannot continue your journey in Atlas they quit... that is where the game mechanic is broken...

I want to offer, again, the idea to make every claimed island raid protected, but for the claim flag which is fully raid-able... Only if the island gets de-claimed the rest gets (lawless) raid-able... this would help with all settlers helping to defend before they get their stuff blown up... this would also help with structure spam because there is only one place that needs defense... and as same goes for ships in anchor we save on harbor defense structures as well... 

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On 10/24/2019 at 10:42 AM, Redrick said:

Hello,

it was great to read in ATLAS Roadmap post

.. great to read what Dev team understand the issue with offline raiding and will try to do something with it.

 

Today we have 9 h wartime on claimed islands.

Really, it's way too long for regular players. How do you see we can protect our lands if we are go to sleep and war time is still ongoing? It is not fun at all and make the game boring.

Please consider to change war time to 4-5 h. That will be enough for pvp on the land, but remove offline raiding issue from the game.

 

- Redrick

 

 

their decision making somethings makes me wonder if they live on the moon.

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I personally think all pvp games should be challenge only anyway. If you only attack a base when it's empty then why play pvp? Doesn't pvp mean player vs player? not player vs empty buildings or ships!

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11 hours ago, Sheepshooter said:

It will not be possible to make offline raiding go away... it is the best time to raid...
It will not be possible to make you only raid-able when you are online, especially when it is the island that is protected/raid-able (one man company being always offline would make un-raid-able)...

Sooo, again, if offline raiding cannot be stopped without breaking all PVP... make the defenses so that offline raiding is no longer a walk in the park while shooting fish (puckles and cannons) in barrel...
It does not mean that they cannot wipe you... but if your defenses are toxic enough they will go for an easier target... and if they still want to wipe you, it will cost them...
Right now people are quitting (again) because what ever they try they cannot secure their stuff and don't see how to rebuild (again) to continue...
Same as the small people that see their anchored ships sunk too easy and cannot be bothered to rebuild that (again)...

If they cannot continue your journey in Atlas they quit... that is where the game mechanic is broken...

I want to offer, again, the idea to make every claimed island raid protected, but for the claim flag which is fully raid-able... Only if the island gets de-claimed the rest gets (lawless) raid-able... this would help with all settlers helping to defend before they get their stuff blown up... this would also help with structure spam because there is only one place that needs defense... and as same goes for ships in anchor we save on harbor defense structures as well... 

What you highlight is not that raiding is bad.   What is bad is the wipe.  I've never seen anyone quit if a raid happened, and somebody took a small amount of stuff from you.  What you highlight is that this game could be greater than ARK, or any other game, but they have to get away from the whole mentality of base raiding, and wiping.  They need to find a way to turn it into a pirate game, not a land conquest game.  I have given many suggestions to change the game.  Most they have ignored.  It would require a complete rethink of the game.  The problem is that they seem to think that basing a game around the acquisition of stuff is fun for people.  In other words, they think people find it fun to accumulate a lot of stuff, and get to the point that you are powerful, only to lose it all, and now you have to start over.  They don't seem to understand that when it takes you weeks and months to accumulate it, this isn't like striking out in baseball.  Of course in baseball, you are going to strike out, and come back to the plate, over and over, to take your next at-bat.  Games like this are different.  You spend months building up, and acquiring things such as maps, BPs, ships, quality shipyards, bases, breeding tames, etc...  You lose it in one day, and now you are looking at starting over, knowing that those around you are miles ahead of you...months ahead of you, and it takes the wind out of your sails.  Many people quit.  I've seen people in our company, this season, quit after their ship was sunk, while they were offline.  Just their ship.

 

This is why I have argued that the game should get completely away from land defense, and make it all about ship combat, and exploration.  Wouldn't it be cool if we had treasure maps that tell us only the island it is on, and we have to explore the island, to find the treasure, and AotD?  Make the pillar much shorter range so you have to get closer to it?  And wouldn't it be better to do more cargo hauling, and pirating of those cargo haulers?  Getting better building components could be about upkeep.  Why not make buildings slowly decay, like ships do at sea?  And make ships slowly decay in port, like 100 times slower than at sea, so you still need to do upkeep once in a while, before going to sea.

 

Make Freeports more of a hub of activity.  Am I the only one who thinks that it is odd that the place where new people pop in, for their first experience in the game, is almost devoid of life?  Shouldn't it be just the opposite?  Wouldn't this make it even better for recruiting, and thus better for new solo players?

 

Wouldn't removing the whole wipe thing, make the game suddenly more optimal for solo players, and small companies?  Wouldn't people be able to put more time into sailing, and exploring the map, if they don't have to worry about a wipe?

 

This way, they could possibly remove the whole raid window, and you would have to always be on the lookout, on land.  You could still be killed.

 

I do know that things would not be perfect.  Would they ever, so long as you have players who will insist on breaking the game, just because they can?  But imagine how far along we would be had they went this route from the beginning?

 

This would of course, cause a need for a whole new way of base building...new mechanics.  You would need to limit the size of a company's structure count.  You would need to bring back those land claim flags, but only allow the company to have 1, and 1 sea claim for a port.  Ships anchored in the sea claim can't be damaged.  Any structure built outside of the land claim or sea claim, will decay in 24 hours.  So no pillar spamming, and no griefing other people with structures.  Make it a TOS to use structures to block access.  Make no build zones around the resources that are rare on the island.  Make it a TOS to block them.  No fencing them in, or limiting other's access to them, since they can't destroy your structures.  Make a 72 hour cool down for building on an island when you build anything there, outside of your claim.  In other words, you go to another island, and you build a taming pen.  You can't do so again for 72 hours, after the structure decays, which would be 24 hours.  Or, if you take it down yourself, that starts the time.  But no other structures can be on the island, outside of your claim.  This way, if somebody does use a structure in a bad way, to grief or harass, they can't just keep rebuilding it every day.

 

You get the point.  Yes things would need to be worked out, but they should go this route, even as an option, like how they tried colonies, and empires, and people made it clear they wanted colonies.  If they created a ship vs ship server...call it the dangerous seas server, or something like that...I'm pretty sure that most people would choose that mode.

Now, they could do like a guy did with his private ARK server.  Allow mutually agreed war.  Two companies decide that they want to battle it out for control of an area...they are tired of the other company being in their area...so they agree to battle it out.  A war window is opened, when they mutually agree to do so.  Maybe options could be put in place to allow for them to agree on a start time, and a duration.  When this happens, the members of these two companies, can cause damage to the structures of the other.  So the winner will get to stay in the area, and the lose will need to move on.  They could even make it such that if you are wiped, you can not settle in that tile, the surrounding tiles, the next ring of tiles, and the ring around that group.  So, you would need to move a minimum of 4 tiles away.

 

Trade would become more prolific.  You would have several smaller companies on an island, and one guy might be aggressive about mining the metal.  So he puts a lot of it in his store, and people can buy it.  So now you load up ships with the cargo containers, and take them to a port.  You offload it onto a dock, and its contents can now be traded for gold.  The more rare the resource, the more you can charge for it.  resources on that island...you won't pay as much for.  Resources from 6 or 7 tiles away...now you are willing to pay more gold.

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37 minutes ago, Whitehawk said:

Let's be honest though pvp stands for player vs player right? not player vs empty ship or building right?

Not until game makers stop making the games about base defense.  I mean, yes in theory, or by definition, you are right, but that's not how they are making games.  They want to get to a point where it is as sandboxy as possible, but the problem with that is that Meta players then wreck the game.  Meta players do not care about the health of a game community...they care about winning, at all costs, and many will use any exploit or nefarious means to do so.  This is why it is up to Devs to police their communities, and create structure in the game that herds players in the right directions.  Think of it like having a rule in baseball that says you have to touch all the bases, in order, to score a run.  If you don't have that rule, the game would be ruined instantly, because players would make the rules up as they go.  A guy hits a single, and he simply doesn't run.  He just steps on home plate and says he scored.  The rules don't say he has to run the bases, so...    This is what Devs have to do...provide the structure that makes the game fun for everyone, not just the Alphas.

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There are so many ways to mitigate being wiped. Underwater or hidden caches being one. Allies having a pair of your breeder animals in case all yours get killed in a raid. Using 2 islands with opposite raid timers to store a couple boats in safety at all time. Not that the system doesnt need tweaks but if you learn to expect the wipe you dont have to start from 0.

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On 11/15/2019 at 12:15 PM, Whitehawk said:

Let's be honest though pvp stands for player vs player right? not player vs empty ship or building right?

Uhhhhhh sure??? Are you the kinda guy to use the same bad logic when a crew lands on an island to harvest resources and you sink their ship off shore? Thats not PVP! They attacked our undefended boat! Thats not fair! We need anchor protection!

Historically speaking, attacking villages, settlements, etc when people are asleep or away is a tried and true tactic that has been used by just about every warring civilization since forever. It works. 

On 11/12/2019 at 11:34 AM, Atlaneer said:

The only way to really defend is to join a mega or ally with one your all idiots or bobs to think otherwise and that's the truth he'll I'm allied with one and I've never been hit 

That is also untrue, our group  had like 30-50 active players, and we had 1 ally that was about 15-20 active players, and our sector held off the entire player cap alliance and all their cronies throwing everything they had at us for 2 war Decs. It doesnt take a huge "mega corp" it takes a decent group of active players.

On the flipside to that, we also attacked some french canadians in J5 and they had a small group, took us almost 16 hours to take their island and they had 8 active defenders

those guys were fucking pimp on land with their guns and barrels. We lost so many bears and crabs, our riders would get sniped off, and before we could get someone to ride them to safety a guy on a glider and a barrel would wipe them out. It takes knowledge, it takes practice, it takes skill and good coordination, all the things most casuals lack.

On 11/12/2019 at 12:09 PM, Whitehawk said:

Just because some people want to play in small groups or solo doesn't mean they are idiots, so what does that make someone who joins the bullies, just so they don't get picked on?

No one said they were, just that the Devs shouldnt be pandering to THEM because they CHOSE to play a PVP Server designed around large companies. Devs have even said you should probably form or join a large company, if that isnt a direct endorsement of the style of gameplay that's expected, then I dont know what is.

The game was never designed or meant to be played solo or in small groups. Your woes are your own for choosing to do such.

Edited by Inigo

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First of all you've come in late to the party with some of your comments anyway. Secondly no, people that run a business don't have to pander to their customers at all they can just ignore the players and go bankrupt like so many before them eh. Also attacking unarmed villagers was a known tactic, so was marrying your sister in medieval times, but that doesn't mean we do it now does it. Quoting history when you play a FANTASY pirate game is so lame it's unbelievable. This game is less historically accurate than the boasts of baron munchaussen. people who buy and play the game are entitled to put their ideas and opinions on this forum, whether we agree with them or not.

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On 10/25/2019 at 9:32 AM, Inigo said:

 

Let me introduce you to the concept that you picked the wrong genre of games to play. ARK, Rust, 7 Days to Die, Conan Exiles, Etc. 

If you want to play on an Official Server, well that's your decision, it's also your decision to deal with whatever elements are present. Including being raided when you arent on, griefers, etc. Now despite my ire for the Devs and their bad decisions, they did in fact put a reasonable raid timer in. That you can personally set to your preference for Start and End times. 

IF STILL that is not good enough for you, let me remind you, there are PVE, private servers, with additional raid protections available if you just want to get on and play Pokemon without getting your shit shoved in. Alternatively there is also Singleplayer where you can Catch Em All without any risk to your little RP base at all.

I've got no sympathy for any of your problems. I've dealt with my fair share of griefers, proper raiders, even being attacked by the Player Cap Alliance, which prided themselves on their namesake for player capping entire sectors they were attacking(They were still bad at fighting, so it's w/e).

I've done my fair share of griefing and proper raiding, and it's quite fun. It would be a darn shame if they nerf any of that to pander to Casual solo players or 1-4 man companies. 

 

The problem here... is that you, and those like you, may be the majority when it comes to those particular battles, but are certainly NOT the majority of players in the game. MOST of us are in 5-12 man companies that don't have night-shifters. Even companies that do have someone up all night to protect from griefers can't expect that one person to hold off an earnest attack. So what is at issue here is that the devs have created an environment with an imbalance of power that allows large groups of trolls and troglodytes like yourself to have fun at the expense of the rest of the population of a server cluster... which is the majority of the players. So the 50 of you have fun, while the hundreds of us rage quit. Rage quitters don't buy DLC, don't buy servers to host their 30-40 friends, and certainly don't buy the next game you put out. In fact, I didn't even buy THIS game because I was so disgusted with how easy it was to grief in ARK. Someone bought it for me because they wanted my logistics expertise in their company...

At the end of the day, if they don't do something about the dynamics that force people to join large companies where they are just a number or get rolled by those larger companies... they're going to lose more players than they already have. Then it'll just be a circle jerk between all of you "proper raiders". Something something needs of the many, something something needs of the few.

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It's funny how you criticize people for picking the wrong game or playing safe in pve or sp when offline raiding is about as safe as you can get! Why cos you play pvp dyu think that makes you some kind of elite digital marine? I play pvp, a lot of us who play pve and sp do play pvp in games. But my ego isn't so fragile that I have to go round boasting about it. And as for you enjoying griefing people? How many legless spiders have you got in a tin?

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Shadowbane did it right.

 

Make all owned islands fairly crap when it comes to resources, make lawless rich in resources, and have declarations of war for when you want to raid. Your own island will be crap but bases/green anchored ships unraidable (not players immune to damage like it is now), and you'll need to visit lawless to get good loot (lawless don't need to be right outside freeport either but it's not terrible). This will spur lots of movement and ship combat and transport, and will make those islands you want to take actual fights.

 

Most of the land fighting will be done on the brutal ruleset of lawless as people try to secure good loot spawns for themselves, and when the pressure builds they will go to war with the group pestering their spot.

 

Lower the cost on war declaration too, so it's frequent if necessary (after the 'cooldown period'), but also costly to the attacker.

 

Beyond all that, the game has 1000 bugs and annoyances that should be fixed too.

 

At least the game is in a great state and feels so much fun playing it again.

Edited by Vexus
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I wonder if the game risk would have been so popular after all these years if you could attack your enemy after he's gone to bed?

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On 11/18/2019 at 3:47 PM, Inigo said:

 all the things most casuals lack.
 

Time is the biggest factor.  It takes a lot of materials to make just one barrel.  How many barrels would it take to get good at dive bombing with them?  A casual Company isn't going to be able to get good with barrels.  It's an absurd concept anyway.  Some people have lives.  They can't spend 8-12 hours in this game, every day, like some people do.  You could have simply said that this is a niche game for people who have time to dedicate to the game, and that means 6+ hours a day, if you want to compete.  Add in that I get a lot of screen freezing in combat.  How the hell am I going to hit anything on the ground with a barrel?  I will be doing everything I can not to crash into the ground.  It really sucks that they turned the most powerful weapon into something that only people with the best computers and internet, can use.  Just one more dumb decision by the Devs.

We have people in our Star Citizen group who are or were competitive gamers..mostly FPS.   They do not have the time to succeed in this game.  They don't have 4 or more hours every single day, to play.  This does not make them casual games.  Somites, KittenNova, xAngeldustx, Lost Ikon, MegaOhms, w4rb0t, prutknund, AJRKiller, Lothain, Sgt.Roberts, and others have all repeatedly topped the leaderboards, and kept us consistently top 3 minimum, out of 46k orgs.  Here, they would be called casuals because of one thing...time.

I just checked the leaderboards.  They have us #3 in Elimination, and #1 in Last Stand.  But that game is all about skill.  1v1 KittenNova.  She will give you new respect for girl gamers. 😉

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