Pvp in the game isn't sustainable, and wont last because of the rules

[Mike L 71]

This is pointing out that the current pvp system is not going to work for a few reasons. 

1. The game is modeled so that the more players join up together, the more safe your things will be. While this concept is fun for some, ultimately with one persistent world, this concept will create a gap between players who's arent losing assets when they log off and ones who are losing most of their stuff after they log off.  The best way to save your assets is to join the biggest group. Eventually everyone will choose to join the biggest group or quit playing. This will end all pvp, as eventually everyone left will be on the same side, and the gap between that company and new players will be impossible to bridge. 

2. In game defences are helpful when players are online to defend, but are near useless when no actual players are online to defend the base.  Which is good because if they could stop online players, not much raiding would happen after sufficient defences are put in place.  For this to work however you must try to design it so that almost no offline raiding occurs. 

3. Combat timers are an improvement over no protection at all, however this is still a flawed system for persistent world survival where most of your assets will be collected on islands with combat timers.  9 hours  a day may sound reasonable, but it doesnt promote a healthy meta.  It means that if anyone in the company is not able to be online for the 9 combat hours everyday, then they are leaving assets undefended. The more popular the game gets the luckier you are that assets left undefended are still there.  If everyone in the company cannot be online for the 9 hours per day, then you aren't playing the meta, and a company who is closer to the meta of gameplay time will wipe you out. 

 

Here are my suggestions

1. Everyone comming together and forming a sort of player made government is a pattern that happens in most survival games, and also probably the main reason they get stale and the playerbase dies off. To fix this problem you need to be able to save loot as a smaller company, even in a populated world.

A small personal non connected Freeport bank would go a long ways here. I suggest an npc at the Freeport, that says "I'll hold your stuff for you here" or something that will hold 10 slots or so for you for free, with no limitations on what you can store there, and no gold cost.  Smaller companies and players that want to pvp but do need to log off would greatly appreciate this, and you'll find that just having the threat of being able to store an item somewhere that it cant be taken back, will make larger companies more willing to negotiate and trade with a small company that has just won a pvp engagement, rather than just start an endless raid, that eventually kicks that small company off the game, or makes them join with another larger company, which the more they join with larger companies the less likely pvp is to occur. 

2. Like stated above defences are very helpful when your online defending, however if your not online, and it's not healthy to be online 9 hours per day everyday.  These defences wont stop very much. The best solution to this problem is to make sure little to no offline raiding happens.  You should look at cases where bases get raided with no defenders, as a failed pvp engagement. 

3. This ties in a bit with problem 2. The combat timer is better than nothing. However it's not enough to stop offline raiding.  My suggestion here is the combat timer should be removed, and the war system reworked a little bit. 

This is better for multiple reasons, one being that you dont HAVE to log in every single day to keep assets, since the war will be announced days in advance the defender has time to take appropriate action depending on who has declared war on them. 

War should work the following way. 

The attacker must have held an island for at least 5 days before having the ability to declare war on anyone.  

When the attacker places a war token on the defenders island, the attacker gets to choose the soonest time they want the war to start(within 2-3 days). Then the defender has 48 hours to log on and choose what time after the attackers chosen time to start the war. The defenders also get to choose which of the attackers islands will be vaunerable for the duration of the war.  If the defender does not log on the war starts after the 48 hour period or the soonest the attackers set it to start. 

When the agreed upon time is up, both islands become vaunerable for 24 hours OR until one of the islands are taken. 

When an island is taken all of the structure transfers ownership to the new owners, this leaves an island that's even had its loot cleaned out with some value, a point to take it, and solves all foundation spam issues.  Also gives the new owners the choice, to use the old fort or scrap it and make a better one. 

Also a side note, shops and the player trading system would work much better with no combat timer!

This would be much better than the current system of the combat timer, since with a combat timer the problem still exists that the only way to save your assets is to be a bigger group of players than your enemies, instead it should be a world that companies big and small could exists in and have fun pvp engagements. 

I love atlas, and hope for more fun pirate adventures, please consider a model for the rules that isn't doomed to fail based on how it stomps out all attempts to actually pvp, and remember that forcing players to log on to defend their assets, is usually not a fun experience, and if everyone has bad experiences, your game cant get popular. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Mike L

[Congo 49]

PVP isn't sustainable the way it is right now because the game engine cant handle it. Some of your points work but others would sque the entire game. There should be a place we can safeguard certain resources in the freeport as sort of a supply dump.

[Mike L 71]

You bring in another good point Congo, the game engine cant handle the giant fleet battles and wars that have been occurring because, the best way to protect your assets in the game is to join the biggest company.  They have been working on optimization however some small scale battles between smaller companies would run smoother, and be more fun. 

[Sheepshooter 120]

The main problem you loose your stuff in this game is the PVP balancing.
Somehow you need to have multiple people online at all times working a giant defense network and hundreds of NPCs and tames to secure your stuff... fine...
Against one Bob with a cannon bear... WTF...! cannot kill him with a mythical carbine head shot... cannot kill the bear with a galleon broadside...
Somehow it would be unrealistic if one guy would not be able to wipe any Maginot-Line type of defense by himself...

Think about it...
If you would need many Bobs and gear to take on a well build defense and they have to loose - invest - most of their stuff in the process - like in real warfare...
What would be with the loot in that base? If not many would be willing to loose equal or more of their stuff just to get to your stuff...
Would your stuff be relatively save...? Yes...

Oh and by the way, the performance drop in larger PVP in this game is directly proportional to the stuff the defender needs to build to be a few more minutes longer 'save' before the attacker breaks through anyway right now... so MOAR stuff build is better... and cost more performance...
But it would be "no fun" raiding someone if the active defenses (NPCs on guns) would actually work and not need 15,000 x limit-reached structure to hold of at Bob on a cannon bear for just a few minutes...
Yeah sure, we could have better building structures... like 2x2 walls would 1/4 the structures need to be build... how about 4x4 or any other combination? Too easy?
How about a large stone wall - being 12x10x2 in actual volume - replacing AT LEAST 120 walls... but having only 24,000 HP, compared to the 1,200,000 HP for the 120 walls... hell, if you just shoot out the lower 10 walls to bring the structure down they are still 100,000 HP... But because of multi layer design used in game that will still not bring it down... wanna just bring in a tame through a hole in that wall - 2x2 - it is still 40,000 HP and not just 24,000 HP...

Your stuff will be save the moment the attacker needs to invest at least equal resources in the attack comparable to the defenses.
Your performance will go up, the moment the defender does not need to build up to the structure-limit useless structures to maybe defend against a total noob for a few minutes more that just tame a bear and strapped a cannon on...

 

The other thing about everyone leaving or absorb into bigger companies, is mainly a problem that 90% of the original player base did not get what the island claims are for and had the impression everyone not only deserves a trophy but also their very own island... which they cannot hold, because of the easy offline raiding, even if they could invest the time away from their RL to build an overkill of structures to defend it...

As suggested before, settlers need to become a highly priced resource. You do not KOS that, you want to use it. Forcing more protection from the large (that actually are able to hold an island) for the small...

 

As for the PVP timers... and the useless protection they give to anyone not being able to "at least" be online for 9 hours a day...
Get rid of them and make island raiding a actual capture the flag...
Make the claimed island PVP protected all the time, raid able when lawless, and make the flag circle PVP all the time (with meaningful defenses pleeeeease!)...
You want to raid the island, take the fort build around the flag circle first...
You small settler guys want to keep your current overlord and your stuff, help defend the flag circle...
The more settlers, the more possible defenders online... or just get your stuff out when thing look to go south...
Not much need anymore for everyone to build giant structure all over the island just to protect their small loot... no need for the stupid amount of harbor protection just so your ships might be there when you get online and want to play a pirate sailing game...

[Mike L 71]

I'm glad the wheels are turning here, I think the settler system is great, and gets more and more needed the higher the game population goes. 

The war system I posted may not be perfect, but as i said before sheep, that whole flag always vaunerable system, would work fine, if settlers, and enemies arent able to hide lots of stuff away on your island. If they do, then they will watch the server count and take the island after everyone logs out. Yes though this system is much better than live and promotes pvp better. You may still be forced to log on but at least you'll know it's at your claim flag. 

Also the war system I stated, wouldn't be "soft" or let anyone who wants but doesnt play alot have their own island, just like the current system if playerbase were to rise again companies would start competing for the islands and youd eventually be faced with the choice of, Defend everything I have with everything I have, or become somebody's settler and abandon the island. Youd HAVE to make that decision when the war flag drops. 

Either system would be an improvement over current however, because youd be able to log off. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Mike L

[Congo 49]

Honestly if you play the game towards alliances right now its the only way to survive. But, the real issue to this game is purely in the code. The server cap should honestly be knocked down to the 70's. Even then the lag and frame issues make the game nearly unplayable. Alot of refinement needs to happen

[Mike L 71]

On 8/30/2019 at 11:34 AM, Congo said:

Honestly if you play the game towards alliances right now its the only way to survive. But, the real issue to this game is purely in the code. The server cap should honestly be knocked down to the 70's. Even then the lag and frame issues make the game nearly unplayable. Alot of refinement needs to happen

Yeah, they will continue to optimize. That is still a very important issue, however slightly off topic.

What I'm trying to talk about however is, by the games design, small companies have no place in the game which leads to an extremely simple process. 

Your trying to say alliances is the way in which small companies can exists. Unfortunately however the devs made the alliance limit. 4 companies. A company limit. If they made it a player limit, sure small companies could ally and have a place to stay. 

This 4 company alliance limit, means that unless your at max company limit, then you shouldn't be allied with as long as there is a bigger company than yours willing to ally, youd be stronger allying with the bigger company. 

Which if that meta doesnt change in some way Bigger=better and easier to keep ships floating. Then the entire pvp system is doomed. 

Eventually everyone will be one company or allied in some way, and at that point pvp has become pve, and has failed. 

Make some of the changes I stated above, and you can log out, plus most small companies would be not worth attacking and essentially under the radar of large companies.  Plus with those changes to war. If a company much bigger than yours puts the flag on your island, you could choose to not fight, and move everything you care about off the island. Then the big company would take the island easily, and there wouldn't be much of a war, but it cost the large company 25k gold for the token, so they arent likely to harass small companies. 

However if a flag is dropped on your island and you think you can win. Then you get your island ready, stay and fight for it.  This leads to more, war by choice and less, ohh no someones attacking us today, which faces you with bad choices of, drop what I'm doing right this minute to try and save face, ignore it and probably have your company disband, or ignore it and quit the game. 

I'm trying to help the devs avoid players having to make that choice, because it's exactly that choice that has killed the game currently. 

Instead you should try and have online battles that both parties are ready for, and anything out on the sea should be fair game for pvp.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Mike L

[Sheepshooter 120]

Fun fact, the guys most harmed by the alliance limit are the same guys that wanted it...the small companies... hallo foot, meet bullet...

[eeeceee 116]

 

5 hours ago, Mike L said:

 

Eventually everyone will be one company or allied in some way, and at that point pvp has become pve, and has failed. 

 

Funnily enough, its already the same issue for PVE. Only the big companies are allied.

Edited September 3, 2019 by eeeceee

[Sinappia 49]

16 hours ago, Mike L said:

Eventually everyone will be one company or allied in some way, and at that point pvp has become pve, and has failed.

Which is the situation right now on pvp-eu. There is just one big ally left and the rest has either quit or just logs in to reset/feed.

[DocHolliday 366]

Eh our alliance had all kinds of companies and sizes.  We had single bobs on islands and small companies.  We had plenty of combat with larger alliances and companies.  War was rampant and at times still is.  We have  active combat nightly still even with much lower pops.  Whenever I see a lot of these complaints I just don't understand them.  Why do these small companies survive and actively participate while others wither and die.  I think the words here that matter are the words "actively participate". 

 

I cannot think of any open world game I played where the small groups didn't ally up with many others or larger clans to survive or accept a lower standard of living in game.  I was part of the small groups in Shadowbane and Eve and we did quite well by working with larger clans/companies and contributing when able and doing our own thing when the alliance did not need us.  We were quite effective and fairly well known.  It was part of the game.  Its how it works.  I don't get why people actively fight that here.

Edited September 5, 2019 by DocHolliday

[Mike L 71]

On 9/5/2019 at 4:42 PM, DocHolliday said:

Eh our alliance had all kinds of companies and sizes.  We had single bobs on islands and small companies.  We had plenty of combat with larger alliances and companies.  War was rampant and at times still is.  We have  active combat nightly still even with much lower pops.  Whenever I see a lot of these complaints I just don't understand them.  Why do these small companies survive and actively participate while others wither and die.  I think the words here that matter are the words "actively participate". 

 

I cannot think of any open world game I played where the small groups didn't ally up with many others or larger clans to survive or accept a lower standard of living in game.  I was part of the small groups in Shadowbane and Eve and we did quite well by working with larger clans/companies and contributing when able and doing our own thing when the alliance did not need us.  We were quite effective and fairly well known.  It was part of the game.  Its how it works.  I don't get why people actively fight that here.

Situations like this will occur while player base is low, the more it goes up, the more active players you'll need online for 9 hours everyday to defend. 

Your allowed to ally 4 companies, which means a company of smaller numbers is a weak ally. 

Also I'm guessing your company and alliance make up a good portion of the remaining players playing.  I'm surprised you get attacked every night, is it by another big company, or small company freeporters? 

 I noticed you said it HAD companies of all sizes, including single Bob's and small companies. What happened to them? 

The root of the problem I'm talking about here isn't in getting enough combat, it's the underhanded methods that are brought out by game design. 

The first time your company doesnt have many on during combat time, someone can just look up your server, see that not many are on, and anonymously attack your company. Which could be helped a bit by putting character name with steam name. 

It's a pvp system that gets worse and worse the more players decide to play the game. At some point you'll need more than max company sizes to be able to log out and still have assets when you log back in.

If this doesnt get sorted out, game will kill itself every time it gets more players again. 

I'm not trying to troll or anything, I hope the system keeps going well for your company, and the battles stay fresh. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Mike L

[Enki Anunnaki 240]

ya know.. for once i gotta agree with realist. i believe factions or (nations) would save pvp. maybe even forced character allocation to keep the factions even. maybe a game function that removes an 10 day (or what ever day) inactive player from a faction where they still keep their character and stats but theyre assigned a new faction upon logging back in, according to balance. an "invite a friend to faction" feature if there's an instance the factions are imbalanced. 4, each with their own main freeport and theme.. north west, north east, south east, south west. name them whatever.

Make a 2 tile wide lawless zone between all the factions and a good sized lawless circle around the center kraken tile.

company types/classes with a time and carnage scaled crime system.

• trader (high defence but low offence with increased sailing and weight buffs)
• pirate (outlaw with high damage and pirateering buffs but lowish defence) 
• templar (can accept bounties or notifications from some sort of anticrime dispatcher of enemy nation pirates or crime offenders nearby, evenly offence and defence. cant attack trader companies unless they commit a crime of worth)

BOOM thatd be hawt @Jatheish

Edited September 7, 2019 by Enki Anunnaki

[Mike L 71]

They could go with the factions idea, I've tossed it around in discord and thought about it a bit.  It would be better than letting players hard work almost always being wasted in offline combat, biggest problem I see to work out with almost any faction system is insiding. There wouldn't be anything to prevent someone making a character with the full intent of sabotaging one of the factions. 

Make all their islands unusable, despawn everything they can, block up allied harbors. If you fix that then factions could work, but as Congo already pointed out, these giant wars arent going so well performance wise. 

[Sheepshooter 120]

6 hours ago, Enki Anunnaki said:

ya know.. for once i gotta agree with realist. i believe factions or (nations) would save pvp.

so your soul is lost to the troll...

Faction space, or anything that prevents PVP totally will kill any PVP on the whole server...
Currently every big ship battle ends in a Freeport with everyone shit talking, because you cannot do anything...
If you can permanently 'hide' stuff in PVE sectors everyone will only be there and no one will risk anything in PVP sectors...
When the player count goes up again, it will be like first day with everyone in the few PVE sectors - but this time building giant PVE RP bases and tons of tames each... Lag Fest on steroids...
This will unfortunately push out the new and small guys into PVP , because of how broken PVE is in this game and exploitable by big companies spamming you in. In PVP the small guy will be the main - as in only - target for the big guys looking for a fight, which they can't have and will not risk with other big guys. The small guy gets wiped and wiped again and will leave, because of stupid game design that is Factions/PVE sectors on a PVP server... it will be more broken than it is now...

Also every problem that people are trying to solve with stupid ideas like Faction space, comes from the same problem...

1. People want protection because they are loosing their stuff too often to continue playing.
2. People loose their stuff because it is too easy to attack and way to impossible to defend even with the biggest amount of structure overload.
3. That is because NPC land defenses are useless against just one cannon bear, especially if you are small and cannot be 24/7 just to defend your stuff by hand.
4. This is due to the current PVP imbalance.

The solution to the problem therefore is not to put more stuff in that will break the game even more.
But fix the problem that destroys all your stuff 'too often' with no way for players to do anything meaningful about it - Land PVP imbalance...

No one here would be talking about Factions or other permanent PVE protections - that will kill PVP - if your Land PVP defenses would work and would cost the attacker the same or more as the defender. At that point you will not get attacked by random cannon bears and not every attack will be a guaranteed success for the attacker, therefore you can defend your stuff meaningful, therefore you keep your stuff longer, therefore you are as save as you want to be/can afford...

Currently the imbalance is this: Defender builds 15.000+ structures (because of build limit) over the course of weeks and months to keep his stuff save - gets wiped while offline by a bear (5-10min taming) and a cannon (30min farming)... therefore a bear with a cannon is worth 15.000+ structures and many boats with hundreds of NPC wages and months of time online doing stuff other than sailing and playing the 95% rest of the game contend (because you need to build stuff for your next wipe)...

Again, fix PVP and all this goes away...
Unfortunately PVP balancing is dead last on the Devs agenda...

[Enki Anunnaki 240]

4 hours ago, Sheepshooter said:

so your soul is lost to the troll...

Faction space, or anything that prevents PVP totally will kill any PVP on the whole server...
Currently every big ship battle ends in a Freeport with everyone shit talking, because you cannot do anything...
If you can permanently 'hide' stuff in PVE sectors everyone will only be there and no one will risk anything in PVP sectors...
When the player count goes up again, it will be like first day with everyone in the few PVE sectors - but this time building giant PVE RP bases and tons of tames each... Lag Fest on steroids...
This will unfortunately push out the new and small guys into PVP , because of how broken PVE is in this game and exploitable by big companies spamming you in. In PVP the small guy will be the main - as in only - target for the big guys looking for a fight, which they can't have and will not risk with other big guys. The small guy gets wiped and wiped again and will leave, because of stupid game design that is Factions/PVE sectors on a PVP server... it will be more broken than it is now...

Also every problem that people are trying to solve with stupid ideas like Faction space, comes from the same problem...

1. People want protection because they are loosing their stuff too often to continue playing.
2. People loose their stuff because it is too easy to attack and way to impossible to defend even with the biggest amount of structure overload.
3. That is because NPC land defenses are useless against just one cannon bear, especially if you are small and cannot be 24/7 just to defend your stuff by hand.
4. This is due to the current PVP imbalance.

The solution to the problem therefore is not to put more stuff in that will break the game even more.
But fix the problem that destroys all your stuff 'too often' with no way for players to do anything meaningful about it - Land PVP imbalance...

No one here would be talking about Factions or other permanent PVE protections - that will kill PVP - if your Land PVP defenses would work and would cost the attacker the same or more as the defender. At that point you will not get attacked by random cannon bears and not every attack will be a guaranteed success for the attacker, therefore you can defend your stuff meaningful, therefore you keep your stuff longer, therefore you are as save as you want to be/can afford...

Currently the imbalance is this: Defender builds 15.000+ structures (because of build limit) over the course of weeks and months to keep his stuff save - gets wiped while offline by a bear (5-10min taming) and a cannon (30min farming)... therefore a bear with a cannon is worth 15.000+ structures and many boats with hundreds of NPC wages and months of time online doing stuff other than sailing and playing the 95% rest of the game contend (because you need to build stuff for your next wipe)...

Again, fix PVP and all this goes away...
Unfortunately PVP balancing is dead last on the Devs agenda...

Thing is, i dont think you even read my post.   there wouldn't be pve safe zones like you're implying. Just fractions to spread out the population instead of forcing people to join large groups else getting stomped by one. The way I described, your already in a pre defined alliance so to speak, and your company defines your role in the game. The traders will want to be near the nation Freeport, the templars all around the edges to protect the nation, and the pirates pretty much anywhere lotting and robbing. Pvp will be anywhere... even potentially a civil conflict within the nation... templars against pirates and law breakers... pirates against traders and templars. Could be very cool

Edited September 7, 2019 by Enki Anunnaki

[Sheepshooter 120]

Well I didnt became a pirate to server any king...

Also if I understand it right there would still be companies, that absorb everything... only that halve of them cant PVP you...

Makes no sense at all in solving the problems of the game... just halves the number of players able to wipe you... not the ability to wipe you easily...

That is what most of the people not understand... most here a looking for a way out, like if we have factions only halve the players can wipe me, or if we have PVE sectors I could forever live in peace on a PVP server...

Just fix the PVP so you can actually protect your stuff... no one here would complain anymore... and ask for PVE like protections...

We had better PVP in the beginning until the useless streamers complaint that they could not raid alone and their tames would die to fast... cant have that... so to keep the streamers happy and hopefully bringing in more customers, we lost so many of the playerbase that the streamers left with them... dead game... still stuck with what killed it... one sided PVP...

[Mike L 71]

However they do it, it just needs to be fixed, this game overall is really cool.  I've done what I can to help solve the problem that the biggest group is meta, and only the biggest.    With the system I posted everyone gets to exists, everyone can pvp.  Offline raiding would only occur if defenders are logged off for at least 48 hours, trading would become common. That alone would also make piracy and ship v ship combat more common since more groups would be able to keep their setup. 

Please devs, your on your last leg here. 

[eeeceee 116]

Having factions just gives in on the original concept, and bows away from a challenge. FFA PVP afaik has proven to not be completely sustainable, however it can still be popular and still be fun and have replayability to retain/gain players. It can have players that play while knowing that the game is not sustainable, and they play it just for the bits that are fun. I never really enjoyed mmorpg type online games as much as fps games, until ark. FFA PVP sandbox has something that prevents it from being a sustainable video game, and its probably because it's like the real world (which sucks.) The posts above talk about things like templars and ports and nations and edges around nations, which are all real life things. Ark, eve, swg, some others *maybe*, they are all ffa pvp games which are arguably good games. I am not sure there is any others. There is reasons that are unique to each of those 3 games that help to explain why those games are respectively. Finding that reason for atlas will just take some time.... and i cbf atm

Making the cost of stuff that blows up my wall cost more than the wall itself is a start though. Is that actually true? I just read that somewhere, i've forgot if i can remember correctly and i'm bad at maths.

Edited September 9, 2019 by eeeceee

[Sheepshooter 120]

FFA PVP is sustainable if the PVP is balanced, which this is not...

[Mike L 71]

I still dont really think it should be ffa pvp, or factions, just pvp that everyone can fight and have fun with if they want to.  Shouldn't force any companies to a certain group size.  This post is about changes that make the game more playable for all the types of players. 

The only type of offline raiding that I think should occur is if the owners got off for a long period of time (close to a week) or if the defenders decide to log out because they are losing. 

I also don't like the concept of making it more costly to raid, because besides in offline combat, I think the equipment system, structure health vs cannons and all that isn't in a bad spot.  Make it more costly to raid and players are even less likely to attempt it vs other online players. 

I'll sum up the changes again because this thread is getting pretty long.

1. Freeport bank, personal bank that's not enough to get by on alone. 

2. No combat timer, only war. 

3. When an island is taken, all structures inside the claim, transfer ownership to new owners.(fixes foundation spam issues)

The only type of players these changes make the experience worse for are the ones checking the player count on servers everyday and looking at combat timers to see, where they can find loot and who they can make quit playing that day.  Simply takes away the need to offline raid or troll other companies daily.  The changes I've posted are very carefully considered to accomplish this goal. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Mike L

[Drewlbucket 10]

There is too much focus in this thread for land encounters. The real savior to this game is what they are going for: Devalue land pvp. The value in this game is ships. Land pvp is in Ark, Rust and even PUBG. The community majority wants more things in the sea. More piratey less caveman knights on bear back.

As far as the player government idea, it is great but you have played games. Due to blatant discrimination or cool kids groups - you cannot rely on a modern gaming community to sustain that.

As far as one thing that poked out at me "have to hold an island to declare war"  that means only day 1 land owners can really sustain. Which is unsustainable. If land is less important, it is all a moot point anyway. If they were continuing with the current system, some of your suggestions are nice. The roadmap clearly indicates this is not what is wanted going forward though.

[Sheepshooter 120]

13 hours ago, Drewlbucket said:

There is too much focus in this thread for land encounters.

Land PVP is broken...
Ships sink while anchored at land more than they sink in ship PVP...
Ship killer Numero Uno is the cannon bear with no offline protection against it (unless you park your ships on a high enough mountain...)
Sunken ships make no ship PVP...
Hence the focus on land PVP balance - which is also the problem of every other aspect of this game...

[znasser 81]

17 hours ago, Mike L said:

3. When an island is taken, all structures inside the claim, transfer ownership to new owners.(fixes foundation spam issues)

The main reason to spam pillars on an island is to prevent your enemys to place structures, mainly beds but also fobs and other structures. People will also build defensive walls by placing a lot of pillars close to each other in important positions that could be considered spam too. I don't understand how transfering structures when an island is conquered would stop people from doing any of these things.

Prevent other players to build in your island unless you allow them to, and pillar spam will be mostly fixed, at least the first kind.

 

[Mike L 71]

3 hours ago, znasser said:

The main reason to spam pillars on an island is to prevent your enemys to place structures, mainly beds but also fobs and other structures. People will also build defensive walls by placing a lot of pillars close to each other in important positions that could be considered spam too. I don't understand how transfering structures when an island is conquered would stop people from doing any of these things.

Prevent other players to build in your island unless you allow them to, and pillar spam will be mostly fixed, at least the first kind.

 

It's because while they still have the freedom to spam, it becomes an asset for an enemy trying to take the island, they'll get to own all that spam

So basically it will make spam feel like useless work, and the best way to hurt your enemy will be to clean off the island completely resetting it essentially. 

Since there wont be a daily combat timer, there isn't much reason to spam up the whole island. 

They'll still spam up important areas, but actually trying to hit your 15000 structure limit will make your island a good hit, or raid even if you clear out all the loot. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Mike L