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The problem is though this isn't strictly speaking a pirate game and to argue that we have to keep it one is pointless. As far as I am aware captain kidd never raided ships on a giant crab, blackbeard never had torpedoes, Did anne bonney Use a submarine? And how many people stand by the pirate theme whenever other ideas are mentioned and then go back to their submarines and torpedo armed ships? Or jump on their giant crabs?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Whitehawk said:

The problem is though this isn't strictly speaking a pirate game and to argue that we have to keep it one is pointless. As far as I am aware captain kidd never raided ships on a giant crab, blackbeard never had torpedoes, Did anne bonney Use a submarine? And how many people stand by the pirate theme whenever other ideas are mentioned and then go back to their submarines and torpedo armed ships? Or jump on their giant crabs?

It’s not purely pirate themed and never has been and in other threads I have said as much quite clearly. The problem is that even though there is nothing wrong with a pirate fantasy theme, there is not enough of what people expect when they think pirate in the first place. You can have giant crabs and turtles but you need to also have raiding merchant shipping or you don’t have pirate fantasy, you just have fantasy and when you advertised it as including pirate themes that just pisses people off.

Edited by boomervoncannon

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27 minutes ago, Zadira said:

.   Most people agree that structures need a lot of work. (Pillars, wall edges, windows, glass, to name some) and a very simple thing like fixing dye so that it shows up as the correct color.    

Don't spend a second on this ,your game needs CPR not a makeover

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Well it's horses for courses, I suggested an airship as you know, Yet I get people say it's not pirate themed etc, then some of us suggest teleports, again we get the same negativity. Then the same pirate purists go off to their giant crabs, subs  etc. At the end of the day fantasy is fantasy it could mean almost anything regardless of it being pirate themed. Ok the devs said airships are prob a no go even though it's been on their header since startup, but there are other things that could be added that aren't strictly pirate themed. 

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Whitehawk said:

Well it's horses for courses, I suggested an airship as you know, Yet I get people say it's not pirate themed etc, then some of us suggest teleports, again we get the same negativity. Then the same pirate purists go off to their giant crabs, subs  etc. At the end of the day fantasy is fantasy it could mean almost anything regardless of it being pirate themed. Ok the devs said airships are prob a no go even though it's been on their header since startup, but there are other things that could be added that aren't strictly pirate themed. 

Again, let me be clear, I'm not saying fantasy theme is a problem. I personally have no issue with airships or giant crabs or any of that. I'm not saying any fantasy is bad or that you have too much fantasy. That is why I left mention of the fantasy theme out of my OP, precisely to avoid this kind of not relevant to the point I was making side discussion. 

Forget the fantasy aspect for a moment, whether you like it or not. Regardless of whether the game has fantasy and how much it has, the basic fact remains that the game has been promoted as being at least in part pirate oriented, yet the most basic element of piracy isn't included. Piracy is the act of raiding merchant shipping, that is de facto what the term means. Have you or anyone you know done any raiding of merchant shipping in Atlas? 

Captain Phillips isn't a movie about a guy who ran a farm where he had a garden and kept tamed elephants and bears and then some guys showed up and held guns to his head. It's a movie about a guy who Captained a commercial shipping vessel and then that stuff happened. That's what made the bad guys in the movie pirates. If he had been on land with his garden and bears, they would have been kidnappers. It's the fact he was at sea on a merchant vessel that made the men with guns pirates.

I suspect if you actually provide this much needed element of pirate gameplay, then the people you mentioned who get their panties in a wad over the fantasy elements will be less vocal and irate. It's a lot easier to get pissed off about the non pirate stuff if you came looking for pirate stuff and found little and less of it.  Sailing around in a boat does not make one a pirate. Attacking a fort from sea doesn't make one a pirate, you could just as easily be a marine. Gardening and caring for animals makes you a farmer. If you watched the trailer for Atlas, bought the game and got Stardew Valley instead, you'd have every right to be pissed. Building things makes you an architect. Etc etc etc. What makes you a pirate is this: attacking a merchant vessel and making off with it's cargo. Not only is this not part of Atlas's gameplay, they have never mentioned even planning to include it. It can't be pirate fantasy if you only do the fantasy part.

How pissed would you be if they made a Star Wars game without space ships or The Force?

Edited by boomervoncannon
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, The D Legacy said:

nature sure is amazing, it can create the most complex and inteligent life form in the planet in 9 months, and that intelligent and complex life form can't develop the most basic pirate MMO in the same ammount of time.

Debatable. I'm not sure that the reason we have all this and the dolphins don't is that we are smarter. I think it's mostly just that we have opposable thumbs and even then I'm not sure they didn't come out ahead. They are the only other species that has sex for pleasure and when's the last time you heard a dolphin bitch about it's job?

Edited by boomervoncannon

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Well I believe that for a game to survive it does need a set course/plan, I just watched worlds adrift it's last days on youtube and I was thinking how easy it is for a game to lose direction, I hope that never happens to atlas. Although with worlds adrift I noticed that they didn't do much to bring in outside influences and investors or even release it multi platform which at least atlas is doing. One thing they did wrong in that game though from the very start they had the players far too involved in the way it was developing, too many people pulling and pushing in too many directions only causes confusion and misdirection, and can easily derail a project. I wouldn't want that to happen here.

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5 minutes ago, Whitehawk said:

Well I believe that for a game to survive it does need a set course/plan, I just watched worlds adrift it's last days on youtube and I was thinking how easy it is for a game to lose direction, I hope that never happens to atlas. Although with worlds adrift I noticed that they didn't do much to bring in outside influences and investors or even release it multi platform which at least atlas is doing. One thing they did wrong in that game though from the very start they had the players far too involved in the way it was developing, too many people pulling and pushing in too many directions only causes confusion and misdirection, and can easily derail a project. I wouldn't want that to happen here.

I'm not entirely sure it's not what is happening, but at present it's hard to say with any certainty. The game has certainly seemed to lack focus or a clear direction to this point. Hopefully the new guy brings that to the table, but only time will tell. I do think it's possible for people to wind up in their own little bubbles and be unable to see what is clear to others, so in that regard outside influences can be important and helpful. I'd agree that a key challenge for any game developer that involves players in the the development process prior to launch is to make use of their feedback while maintaining a clear vision and direction for the game. This can often be walking a fine line.

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That is because this was never about producing a game. It was about paying off an Ark partner so they would spin off Atlas to stop them causing further losses to Snail games through bad boy lawsuits. Get them out of the Ark fold where they are no longer a liability. "Here, take this half finished piece of drek that we planned as an expansion. If you play it right you should be able to milk it for millions!" Problem is, the clueless brah they gave the IP too had no acumen and farmed it out to those with minimal ability. They decided to listen to a core group of chest thumper pvp friends and react with animals that had no purpose outside of pvp like the snot blowing fire truck and a useless APC. Locking content behind achievements that until nerfed into the ground no one completed. Hardcore full loot offline raiding games have their niche. Sadly for them it is not a popular niche. So now that they initial cash grab has dried up, they are throwing a hail mary. Will it work? Depends on if it is just more of the same or a true core redesign.

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I remember before ESO went to tam one in its structure, a lot of the long term players including myself told them in forums that it was a stupid idea and would almost make levelling and factions pointless. However on the forums a lot of new players said we were too stuck and the new idea was better etc.Well they did it anyway and now the server is almost empty most days. and all the new players that opposed us are gone. 

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34 minutes ago, UnknownSystemError said:

That is because this was never about producing a game. It was about paying off an Ark partner so they would spin off Atlas to stop them causing further losses to Snail games through bad boy lawsuits. Get them out of the Ark fold where they are no longer a liability. "Here, take this half finished piece of drek that we planned as an expansion. If you play it right you should be able to milk it for millions!" Problem is, the clueless brah they gave the IP too had no acumen and farmed it out to those with minimal ability. They decided to listen to a core group of chest thumper pvp friends and react with animals that had no purpose outside of pvp like the snot blowing fire truck and a useless APC. Locking content behind achievements that until nerfed into the ground no one completed. Hardcore full loot offline raiding games have their niche. Sadly for them it is not a popular niche. So now that they initial cash grab has dried up, they are throwing a hail mary. Will it work? Depends on if it is just more of the same or a true core redesign.

Possible, perhaps even plausible, but unless you have some documentation to offer, sounds like pure conjecture to me. Nothing wrong with conjecturing, as long as you make it clear thats all your doing.

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1 hour ago, Whitehawk said:

I remember before ESO went to tam one in its structure, a lot of the long term players including myself told them in forums that it was a stupid idea and would almost make levelling and factions pointless. However on the forums a lot of new players said we were too stuck and the new idea was better etc.Well they did it anyway and now the server is almost empty most days. and all the new players that opposed us are gone. 

youre trippin. eso is not even close to empty.. and if youre talking about cyrodiil servers, you can thank battlegrounds and champion points being way to OP for casuals. xbox and ps4 are bumpin hard still as well. One tamriel is probably what saved the game tbh. 

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well I was online on eso last night and if you think roughly 14 players in one region is busy you're the one whos trippin.

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3 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

Debatable. I'm not sure that the reason we have all this and the dolphins don't is that we are smarter. I think it's mostly just that we have opposable thumbs and even then I'm not sure they didn't come out ahead. They are the only other species that has sex for pleasure and when's the last time you heard a dolphin bitch about it's job?

exactly my toughts

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4 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

Again, let me be clear, I'm not saying fantasy theme is a problem. I personally have no issue with airships or giant crabs or any of that. I'm not saying any fantasy is bad or that you have too much fantasy. That is why I left mention of the fantasy theme out of my OP, precisely to avoid this kind of not relevant to the point I was making side discussion. 

Forget the fantasy aspect for a moment, whether you like it or not. Regardless of whether the game has fantasy and how much it has, the basic fact remains that the game has been promoted as being at least in part pirate oriented, yet the most basic element of piracy isn't included. Piracy is the act of raiding merchant shipping, that is de facto what the term means. Have you or anyone you know done any raiding of merchant shipping in Atlas? 

Captain Phillips isn't a movie about a guy who ran a farm where he had a garden and kept tamed elephants and bears and then some guys showed up and held guns to his head. It's a movie about a guy who Captained a commercial shipping vessel and then that stuff happened. That's what made the bad guys in the movie pirates. If he had been on land with his garden and bears, they would have been kidnappers. It's the fact he was at sea on a merchant vessel that made the men with guns pirates.

I suspect if you actually provide this much needed element of pirate gameplay, then the people you mentioned who get their panties in a wad over the fantasy elements will be less vocal and irate. It's a lot easier to get pissed off about the non pirate stuff if you came looking for pirate stuff and found little and less of it.  Sailing around in a boat does not make one a pirate. Attacking a fort from sea doesn't make one a pirate, you could just as easily be a marine. Gardening and caring for animals makes you a farmer. If you watched the trailer for Atlas, bought the game and got Stardew Valley instead, you'd have every right to be pissed. Building things makes you an architect. Etc etc etc. What makes you a pirate is this: attacking a merchant vessel and making off with it's cargo. Not only is this not part of Atlas's gameplay, they have never mentioned even planning to include it. It can't be pirate fantasy if you only do the fantasy part.

How pissed would you be if they made a Star Wars game without space ships or The Force?

Nah man, all else was good but once you said airships, you will single handedly kill water piracy. Nobody will ever see anyone unless they have the airship as well. That is a no go on that.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Realist said:

Nah man, all else was good but once you said airships, you will single handedly kill water piracy. Nobody will ever see anyone unless they have the airship as well. That is a no go on that.

unless the game's flight ceiling is low enough that you can see airships and they can see water ships. Problem solved. Let's not approach things that aren't even in the game as if they are unworkable. Airships could be problematic or they could be perfectly fine. It would depend upon implementation.

Edit: Also, why does everyone seem to be going waay out of their way to miss the point here? 

Edited by boomervoncannon
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Also they were part of an earlier devkit I believe, and they do still have one on the header, but anyway they have decided no to the airship anyway.  

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

unless the game's flight ceiling is low enough that you can see airships and they can see water ships. Problem solved. Let's not approach things that aren't even in the game as if they are unworkable. Airships could be problematic or they could be perfectly fine. It would depend upon implementation.

Edit: Also, why does everyone seem to be going waay out of their way to miss the point here? 

A ceiling is a ceiling boomer. On the big island people might want to build at the top. Can they only build a one high building at the top of the island just so airships don’t fly that high?

and no they can’t have separate ceilings so yeah either airships fly high or people build down low. Airships won’t work

Edited by Realist

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3 minutes ago, Realist said:

A ceiling is a ceiling boomer. On the big island people might want to build at the top. Can they only build a one high building at the top of the island just so airships don’t fly that high?

and no they can’t have separate ceilings so yeah either airships fly high or people build down low. Airships won’t work

Again, the point was never airships. You're dragging the conversation off topic for no good reason. The point is this is a pirate game without piracy. Airships have literally nothing to do with that point. I don't personally care whether the game has airships or not. I only even mentioned them as part of the fantasy element.

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well we're not getting them anyway. But the fact remains that if necessity is the mother of invention then boredom is the father, and when people have done all they can in a game they stop playing, the reason I stay with mmo's is because I always level up slowly and explore at my own pace. But even that only prolongs the inevitable ending. To keep us playing they will have to keep adding content. the bugs are a problem yeh but boredom in a game you play to fill time is sometimes worse. and there is only so much piratish stuff that is conceivable, after that you are gonna have to step up the fantasy side for sure. So eventually you are gonna upset some  of your player base for sure. But worse in my book is to do nothing.

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6 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Again, the point was never airships. You're dragging the conversation off topic for no good reason. The point is this is a pirate game without piracy. Airships have literally nothing to do with that point. I don't personally care whether the game has airships or not. I only even mentioned them as part of the fantasy element.

Yes, I realize you don’t necessarily have a horse in almost any race. Regardless of fantasy or piracy. They were stupid enough to make a world that was almost entirely water. Air ships would just be bad form after that.

sure if they change the map completely and add actual continents like I was saying then sure(they should also add flying tames by the way). Griphons are very good in the fanstasy realm. Let’s get some griphons in here 👍

bottom line is they messed up big time because they did just gender blend the game, but we really have 4 different aspects which was very stupid to begin with.

so here we are. We have a survival/mmo/pirate/fantasy game. Sorry but if you aren’t willing to get rid of two of not 3 of those elements you are done son.

these guys can’t pull all of this off because nobody can pull all of this off.

sure, it’s super bowl time. Let’s send in the third string for the win 😂.

people have been saying what game they want for a long time and if you think that wildcard/grapeshot is going to do it above all bigger companies.... I just have to smh.

this new lead designer is going to get rid of 2 of the 4 elements I listed above guaranteed. That or he becomes a failure as well. I don’t care what two he gets rid of but he will get rid of two

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3 minutes ago, Whitehawk said:

well we're not getting them anyway. But the fact remains that if necessity is the mother of invention then boredom is the father, and when people have done all they can in a game they stop playing, the reason I stay with mmo's is because I always level up slowly and explore at my own pace. But even that only prolongs the inevitable ending. To keep us playing they will have to keep adding content. the bugs are a problem yeh but boredom in a game you play to fill time is sometimes worse. and there is only so much piratish stuff that is conceivable, after that you are gonna have to step up the fantasy side for sure. So eventually you are gonna upset some  of your player base for sure. But worse in my book is to do nothing.

To be honest, until entire base wiping is taking care of it won’t be a success and will always be a failure. The only reason ark was successful was because the tames helped you build up a lot faster.

mmo games attract casuals. Casuals will never be fine with forced content. Every base needs to be unraidable regardless. Even on pvp servers. Yeah I said it. And if you have any problem with that at all then you actually want this game to be ark and not an mmo. I loved saying that 😉😘

Every mmo is always about gaining progress and not losing it. Oh this is a survival game? Yeah that was a stupid idea to begin with.

i can’t wait till factions come to play. Almost sure they will at this point.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Realist said:

Yes, I realize you don’t necessarily have a horse in almost any race. Regardless of fantasy or piracy. They were stupid enough to make a world that was almost entirely water. Air ships would just be bad form after that.

sure if they change the map completely and add actual continents like I was saying then sure(they should also add flying tames by the way). Griphons are very good in the fanstasy realm. Let’s get some griphons in here 👍

bottom line is they messed up big time because they did just gender blend the game, but we really have 4 different aspects which was very stupid to begin with.

so here we are. We have a survival/mmo/pirate/fantasy game. Sorry but if you aren’t willing to get rid of two of not 3 of those elements you are done son.

these guys can’t pull all of this off because nobody can pull all of this off.

sure, it’s super bowl time. Let’s send in the third string for the win 😂.

people have been saying what game they want for a long time and if you think that wildcard/grapeshot is going to do it above all bigger companies.... I just have to smh.

this new lead designer is going to get rid of 2 of the 4 elements I listed above guaranteed. That or he becomes a failure as well. I don’t care what two he gets rid of but he will get rid of two

None of this has much of anything to do with people being upset about buying a game marketed as at least partly about pirates and finding no actual piracy in it's game content. It's just you going on a personal crusade about something unrelated that happens to have some of the same words in it. Even when it's pointed out to you you're dragging the conversation off topic, you just continue to do it.

I have made the point I wished to make on this topic. You should feel free to carry on with any seperate discussion you wish. I'm not particularly interested in it.

Edited by boomervoncannon
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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

None of this has much of anything to do with people being upset about buying a game marketed as at least partly about pirates and finding no actual piracy in it's game content. It's just you going on a personal crusade about something unrelated that happens to have some of the same words in it. Even when it's pointed out to you you're dragging the conversation off topic, you just continue to do it.

I have made the point I wished to make on this topic. You should feel free to carry on with any seperate discussion you wish. I'm not particularly interested in it.

Hey that is cool man. You pointed out the game was marketed as pirates and doesn’t have that. What I said is very relevant because of that. So no pirates right? Cool, one of the 4 are already scratched off the list. This is exactly what I am talking about. Next there isn’t is a clear mmo design either. Scratch 2 of the list.

now we have a fantasy/ survival game. Now we have something to work with 👍

Edited by Realist

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