Cue the wailing and moaning and knashing of teeth....

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

Let's just get this out of the way for all the people posting as if their hair is on fire over the skill tree changes. EA access is a period of testing different iterations in order to gather data and assess what approaches are most appropriate. The changes to the skill tree just implemented are part of this iterative process. Expect more changes. To everything. It is very much a part of the EA process. If this does not suit your temperament to know that anything and everything can change at the drop of a hat with a new patch, then you should strongly consider not playing Atlas until official launch, as Atlas is a game and the purpose of games is to have fun. 

What I hear a lot of people expressing is "I'm not having fun!" though not in those exact words. The problem unfortunately lies with the disconnect between their expectations and the reality of the Early Access process. Let me be blunt. With EA you are essentially paying to be a beta tester. Whether game studios should be charging for the privilege of beta testing is a seperate conversation and IMO one worth having, but the point here and now is that if you purchase a game during EA, ESPECIALLY the first week of EA, that is essentially what you are signing up for. If you find this unsuitable, undesirable or unpleasant, then by all means refund and seek your entertainment elsewhere. Life is short, don't waste your free time being frustrated over something you can't control, like a game's development. Find something you do enjoy and do that instead. Atlas will in all likelihood still be here in a couple years, and when it releases come back and see what it's like at a point when you can expect it not to change without warning.

[Evir 38]

This should have never left in any test build, the math doesn't even add up, at level cap you cant even max some trees out, even if that is all you go for. The "its EA, they are testing" doesn't fly, this is basic math. It isn't even especially hard math. It is like the Devs do not even know how many points they give you at max level, and assigned arbitrary numbers to skills, without any knowledge of how the leveling system works.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Evir

[Scrad 14]

you know you get more skill points per level at higher levels.

This means you can't get the advanced skills early on without sacrificing in other area's of the skill tree.

Your Max level is supposed to increase as you explore the map and make discoveries. So the more you travel about and do stuff the more your level increases and the more skill points you get making it less painful to get the high end skills.

[Evir 38]

2 minutes ago, Scrad said:

you know you get more skill points per level at higher levels.

This means you can't get the advanced skills early on without sacrificing in other area's of the skill tree.

Your Max level is supposed to increase as you explore the map and make discoveries. So the more you travel about and do stuff the more your level increases and the more skill points you get making it less painful to get the high end skills.

The cap is 51, I am 43 and can't unlock a full late game tree, let alone any survival skills... stop white knighting without any knowledge of what is going on. There are level 51s saying they cant unlock the lower end of the Piracy tree. And they cant gain anymore XP.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Evir

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

The "it's EA, they are testing" does fly, because they may be testing a specific thing at this point within the system. It's not necessary for testing to have all the math add up the way it would in a finished game, which seems to be the underlying assumption of your argument, that the numbers need to add up at max level. I would suggest that the fact that as you point out, the math isn't even particularly difficult, means they are well aware that the math doesn't add up and right now that isn't the point, which further suggests this is just a temporary testing iteration.  Or are you suggesting that whole teams of people can acquire degrees in coding and game development, get themselves hired to a studio and produce something resembling a game WITHOUT having basic math skills equal to a fifth grader?

[archaegeo 192]

You are telling us you have already explored the entire map to unlock to level 100?

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

3 minutes ago, Evir said:

The cap is 51, I am 43 and can't unlock a full late game tree, let alone any survival skills... stop white knighting without any knowledge of what is going on. There are level 51s saying they cant unlock the lower end of the Piracy tree. And they cant gain anymore XP.

And in Early Access this is nothing to be concerned about. If you are actually familar with how Early Access games tend to work, you should be well aware that arriving at max level within one week of the launch of EA is likely to mean you're sitting a point where things are a bit wonky because development focus is going to be on lower level concerns at this point, where the majority of EA players sit, rather than at the top end for the moment, which will come later.

[Evir 38]

3 minutes ago, archaegeo said:

You are telling us you have already explored the entire map to unlock to level 100?

No one is level 100, where do people keep getting this bad information? the current level cap is 51, no one is higher than that right now, and they have explored tons. The EXP gain stops at level 51, all exploring islands gets you is an XP multiplier boost, when you are capped, it does nothing for you.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Evir

[Rickyh24 22]

“It’s early access they said”

me while playing ark 6 years later and people are still hiding under the mesh.  

[Evir 38]

2 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

And in Early Access this is nothing to be concerned about. If you are actually familar with how Early Access games tend to work, you should be well aware that arriving at max level within one week of the launch of EA is likely to mean you're sitting a point where things are a bit wonky because development focus is going to be on lower level concerns at this point, where the majority of EA players sit, rather than at the top end for the moment, which will come later.

You clearly have never played Ark or DnL. The leveling is exactly the same. Both launched early access with level 51 as the cap, and animals capped at 30, +49 levels that they can gain for a total of 79.
I played both in EA. Stop acting like you are smart when you have no idea how this is exactly the same as both of their games were, the XP gain is the same, you could level just as fast in those games as you can on this. This you can actually level faster, because of the number of alphas that spawn and the XP bonus for a new island discovery. Trap an alpha, hit it a bunch with the XP boost, gain lots of levels. Easy.

[Joeturndwn4wht 3]

To reply to the madness that is the original comment. You are looking at this from a paid perspective. It should have not been SOLD to the public in the state the game is in. If at any time, Everything anyone put into the game is gone, then it is a scam. I myself dont think i will play anymore but for the future of game development and the rep of this company, Wildcard, something like this is how a developer dies. And for the future of the game it probablly wont be around for the 2 YEARS that it could be in development. Look at the reviews, Mass majority is negative which is a travesty! I really want to play this game and love this Type of game MMO and survival overall is awesome! But with these types of replues you give out is just a way of saying You dont care nore do you want to help us as a community! So Be productive and help us, not give excusses!!!!!

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

17 minutes ago, Evir said:

You clearly have never played Ark or DnL. The leveling is exactly the same. Both launched early access with level 51 as the cap, and animals capped at 30, +49 levels that they can gain for a total of 79.
I played both in EA. Stop acting like you are smart when you have no idea how this is exactly the same as both of their games were, the XP gain is the same, you could level just as fast in those games as you can on this. This you can actually level faster, because of the number of alphas that spawn and the XP bonus for a new island discovery. Trap an alpha, hit it a bunch with the XP boost, gain lots of levels. Easy.

umm, I have 4k hours in Ark, and if you'd checked my steam profile (same name) you'd know that instead of saying things that make you look foolish...

 

Also the things you state after asserting I've never played a game I've got 4k hours in have nothing to do whatsoever with my point that hitting level cap one week into EA isn't going to be where the majority of players are at that point. I would bet you dollars to donuts that one week into Ark's EA, a majority of players were not at whatever the cap was then either. Ark, had xp boost for explorer notes, Atlas has it for island discovery. I could argue it's easier to get to explorer notes than new islands, but that's beside the point. The underlying point is, sitting at level cap at this point in the process isn't where dev time is focused.

Edited December 27, 2018 by boomervoncannon

[Evir 38]

4 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

umm, I have 4k hours in Ark, and if you'd checked my profile you'd know that instead of saying things that make you look foolish...

Were you there day one of EA when the servers launched? If so you would know exactly how easy it is to level, this game is no different, AT ALL. It is a copy and paste of the leveling system. You could literally be level cap in one to two days if all you did was kill alphas in this game. In Ark, you just got a tame, and cleared the island a few times and you were capped. We were level capped in a week of Ark launch and they slowly added 2-4 levels each patch over the next couple of years and added new engrams. 

You sit there and act like this will/is supposed to be different when all the evidence is against you completely.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Evir

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

5 minutes ago, Evir said:

Were you there day one of EA when the servers launched? If so you would know exactly how easy it is to level, this game is no different, AT ALL. It is a copy and paste of the leveling system. You could literally be level cap in one to two days if all you did was kill alphas in this game. In Ark, you just got a tame, and cleared the island a few times and you were capped. We were level capped in a week of Ark launch and they slowly added 2-4 levels each patch over the next couple of years and added new engrams. 

You sit there and act like this will/is supposed to be different when all the evidence is against you completely.

The evidence is nowhere near against me, or are you asserting that a majority of players in Atlas are currently sitting at level cap?  Or were one week into Ark's EA launch. Because if you are asserting that, a whole lot of people are going to call shenanigans on you. It sounds like you are engaged in the fallacy of assuming your experience is typical of everyone's. It's not. Some people are sitting at level cap like you. Tons are not. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by boomervoncannon

[Loni 32]

EA or not it makes no damn sense to cap skill gain like that. If anything it should be the oposite. Opening the level cap and letting people test out the skills and weed out to powerfull combos of obtainable skill and shuffle them around for the future, more stable and wipe safe versions of the game.

[Evir 38]

I have personally seen people at level 51, and several 46+ I am personally 43 and I stopped leveling to help build the base, because I was so far ahead of my group, I told them to go level while I built the base. Now we are all in our 30s and 40s. We had people level 1 yesterday that are level 30 today. Just by capturing Alphas over and over and killing them with bows. So yes it is possible to be level capped right now and a lot of people are.

The day of launch I was killed by a level 36 when I finally got out of the cancer zone that is the starting area, because he was one of the first out of there and was getting the XP boost and killing things with pistols.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Evir

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

1 minute ago, Evir said:

I have personally seen people at level 51, and several 46+ I am personally 43 and I stopped leveling to help build the base, because I was so far ahead of my group, I told them to go level while I built the base. Now we are all in our 30s and 40s. We had people level 1 yesterday that are level 30 today. Just by capturing Alphas over and over and killing them with bows. So yes it is possible to be level capped right now and a lot of people are.

I'm not asserting that no one is at or near cap. Please pay attention to what I'm actually saying, not what you seem to be thinking in it's place. Nowhere have I said no one is at or near level cap. I'm well aware some number of folks are. My point, which you seem to continually be missing, is that most players are not, and therefore development focus is going to be on lower level issues. You're asking me if I was in Ark's EA week one. If you were, then you should recall that issues affecting lower level players in nearly all EA games are addressed before proceeding to stuff affecting higher levels.  This is perfectly rational and normal, because out of the gate, developers have more data on what's happening at lower levels then as the overall playerbase progresses, they get more data about higher and higher levels. Congratulations, you are ahead of that curve, but most are not, that's why it's a curve. You yourself provide anecdotal evidence of this when you say that you stopped at 43 because you were so far ahead of your own group.

[Evir 38]

13 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

I'm not asserting that no one is at or near cap. Please pay attention to what I'm actually saying, not what you seem to be thinking in it's place. Nowhere have I said no one is at or near level cap. I'm well aware some number of folks are. My point, which you seem to continually be missing, is that most players are not, and therefore development focus is going to be on lower level issues. You're asking me if I was in Ark's EA week one. If you were, then you should recall that issues affecting lower level players in nearly all EA games are addressed before proceeding to stuff affecting higher levels.  This is perfectly rational and normal, because out of the gate, developers have more data on what's happening at lower levels then as the overall playerbase progresses, they get more data about higher and higher levels. Congratulations, you are ahead of that curve, but most are not, that's why it's a curve. You yourself provide anecdotal evidence of this when you say that you stopped at 43 because you were so far ahead of your own group.

Here is the problem, those people stuck at lower levels are screwed right now, they have no defense against the marauding hordes, because they cant have multiple people building base defenses, while building ships to combat the guys in Galleons that park off their coast and have dozens of players roll over them. 

Wood is not a deterrent against anyone, stone barely is. The devs clearly do not have anyone playing the game outside of the dev branch where no one plays the way real people play in real situations. 

If you are below level 30 right now, you are completely screwed. You do not have the skills to survive in the harsh environments such as tundra or desert, as well as all the skills needed to build your base and survive in combat against anyone that is more powerful than you, and you cant live in the temperate/tropical regions where all the streamers and zerg groups hunt for "content" and wipe your base out and destroy all your beds, pushing you back to the starting zones.

Do you play in a vacuum where none of this matters at all? 

I havent even touched on the Ghost ship situation where people are losing hundreds of man hours in work and development because they are spawning literally on the coast and destroying peoples ships, in the dockyards or parked off their territory. Let alone anyone that was caught out at sea before the patch dropped.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Evir

[BumbleBumble 20]

 

44 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

The "it's EA, they are testing" does fly, because they may be testing a specific thing at this point within the system. It's not necessary for testing to have all the math add up the way it would in a finished game, which seems to be the underlying assumption of your argument, that the numbers need to add up at max level. I would suggest that the fact that as you point out, the math isn't even particularly difficult, means they are well aware that the math doesn't add up and right now that isn't the point, which further suggests this is just a temporary testing iteration.  Or are you suggesting that whole teams of people can acquire degrees in coding and game development, get themselves hired to a studio and produce something resembling a game WITHOUT having basic math skills equal to a fifth grader?

If they're well aware, as you say, then why implement something that would clearly irritate, and limit their fans? I personally cant understand why things like this, which would dramatically change the dynamic and the possibility of even playing for some people haven't been thought before releasing. Doesn't matter whether it's in EA or not. If you buy into a prototype and then I do something that would stop you enjoying or playing that prototype then you're not likely to play it. You're also likely to mention to others why things are bad and then they too will gain a similar impression. 

Also, it's rare that the actual coders get to decide game mechanics. Similar to builders and architects. Builders have the skills, Architects do the pointing. 

I hate the EA guise, but whilst we have it, developers need to understand that people make their minds up on the EA regardless of whatever they're testing.
Also, telling people to stop crying about an issue because it's EA is ironic. EA is about feedback, so to silence their feedback but argue that it's 'EA and to be expected so shut up'  is hypocritical. 

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

Just now, Evir said:

Here is the problem, those people stuck at lower levels are screwed right now, they have no defense against the marauding hordes, because they cant have multiple people building base defenses, while building ships to combat the guys in Galleons that park off their coast and have dozens of players roll over them. 

Wood is not a deterrent against anyone, stone barely is. The devs clearly do not have anyone playing the game outside of the dev branch where no one plays the way real people play in real situations. 

If you are below level 30 right now, you are completely screwed. You do not have the skills to survive in the harsh environments such as tundra or desert, as well as all the skills needed to build your base and survive in combat against anyone that is more powerful than you, and you cant live in the temperate/tropical regions where all the streamers and zerg groups hunt for "content" and wipe your base out and destroy all your beds, pushing you back to the starting zones.

Do you play in a vacuum where none of this matters at all? 

Whether true or not, this is an entirely seperate point from the one we were debating, which was you complaining about the patch to skill points affecting higher levels because of issues with math. It's like we were talking about whether Jordan or LeBron is the GOAT in basketball (it's still Jordan btw, and not close) and you suddenly say "Yeah but Tom Brady is a helluva quarterback."

If what you say after this change of topic is true, then it will not take long for the developers to see that both in community reaction and in their back end data, and make adjustments. The key underlying point here is that someone like you, who claims to have participated in EA for both Ark and DNL (Ark on day one) should already understand this, and should know that EA isn't a place where players should expect fair, but should expect change. I'm one of those you're saying is screwed,  yet somehow I've managed not to throw my hands in the air and run screaming in circles like it's the end of the world. It's EA, things will change. Sometimes they will get eaiser, sometimes they will get harder. Roll with it.

[Evir 38]

8 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Whether true or not, this is an entirely seperate point from the one we were debating, which was you complaining about the patch to skill points affecting higher levels because of issues with math. It's like we were talking about whether Jordan or LeBron is the GOAT in basketball (it's still Jordan btw, and not close) and you suddenly say "Yeah but Tom Brady is a helluva quarterback."

If what you say after this change of topic is true, then it will not take long for the developers to see that both in community reaction and in their back end data, and make adjustments. The key underlying point here is that someone like you, who claims to have participated in EA for both Ark and DNL (Ark on day one) should already understand this, and should know that EA isn't a place where players should expect fair, but should expect change. I'm one of those you're saying is screwed,  yet somehow I've managed not to throw my hands in the air and run screaming in circles like it's the end of the world. It's EA, things will change. Sometimes they will get eaiser, sometimes they will get harder. Roll with it.

The changes in Ark were gradual and steady, and made sense for the most part, sure there were bugs and some things got slightly over tuned, there was never a radical change like this at all, the devs understood then that people were actually playing their game, now it is like they have no idea and do not play their own game.

They went from 10% difficulty to 250% difficulty overnight when it came to the skill tree, 1-5 points for the skill trees would have been reasonable, sure people would have complained, but 10 points for skills in the middle of a tree, 8 points for starter skills? It is absurd, stop being obstinate. 79 points to unlock half a tree? Let alone all the points leading up to that tree. When it cost 20ish for the entire tree yesterday?

Edited December 27, 2018 by Evir

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

Gaming has gone in a bad direction.  That is, everybody feels they have to rush out and buy an Alpha game.  Then every frustrating thing about the game is put down to, "It's an Alpha," or "It's early access."  I miss the days when you bought a game that was finished, and maybe only needed a small patch to fix it, at most, after launch.

[Rando 6]

Just now, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Gaming has gone in a bad direction.  That is, everybody feels they have to rush out and buy an Alpha game.  Then every frustrating thing about the game is put down to, "It's an Alpha," or "It's early access."  I miss the days when you bought a game that was finished, and maybe only needed a small patch to fix it, at most, after launch.

We all knew what we would be getting into when we bought this ARK DLC, we just didnt think the Devs would be this incompetent. Easy fixes they refuse to do, they need to have two of every sever, PvP, PvE, stop this retarded "WE HAVE HAVE 40K players WE SWEAR", who even wants 40k players on a sever, most mmos only have like what 6k tops per sever? They literally gave us the bait and switch when they had all the streamers and youtubers play the day before launch.

 

[Daesig 3]

They released this alpha with some ridiculously fun trailers, basically baiting players into buying and trying the alpha. The current early access even feels to early to be close to releasing in EA. A huge portion of the code is an ARK copy paste and yet doesn't work. These things didn't have to be tested by us. I feel like the devs didn't bother to test ANYTHING. 

The problem game development is turning out to be a joke in this time and age, you could work on your game for 14 days, release it in an early access state, farm money and have white knights defend your ass cause it's branded "early access". 

I'm sure that a lot of the problems with this game come from their servers, the lag. Cause i saw huge improvement over the last 5 days. But what the fuck are they even doing with the current changes. It's like they don't see what's wrong.

They enjoyed this game on their 50 player dev private server. Of course it's flawless over there. I'm sure they didn't even bother to farm a full island of metal. Nothing was done.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

6 minutes ago, Evir said:

The changes in Ark were gradual and steady, and made sense for the most part, sure there were bugs and some things got slightly over tuned, there was never a radical change like this at all, the devs understood then that people were actually playing their game, now it is like they have no idea and do not play their own game.

They went from 10% difficulty to 250% difficulty overnight when it came to the skill tree, 1-5 points for the skill trees would have been reasonable, sure people would have complained, but 10 points for skills in the middle of a tree, 8 points for starter skills? It is absurd, stop being obstinate. 79 points to unlock half a tree? Let alone all the points leading up to that tree. When it cost 20ish for the entire tree yesterday?

Au  contraire mon Freire. Not all changes in Ark were steady and gradual. My memory is quite different from yours. I remember reactions to the flyer nerf being every bit as volatile and extreme as the reactions here and now. And when the redwoods were put in? Thylocoleos being introduced? The level of “ZOMG GAME UNPLAYABLE I CANT FLY ANYWHERE!!!! WTFBBQSAUCE DEVS!” was cringe worthy. Since we’re talking about skill points, people wailed and moaned constantly about not being able to take every single engram, some are still to this day. I know of players who won’t play on a server unless skill points are bumped in ini to allow taking of all engrams.

Look you’re still arguing math. Let me be clear here. I’m not arguing the merits of the change at all. Go back and look at my posts  Nowhere have I said “This change is good. I like this change.” What I’m pointing out is that in EA change is to be expected, and further history and horse sense suggests that the most radical changes are likely to come earlier in the process. Most of them that turn out to be obvious bad ideas tend to get corrected back to something more reasonable fairly quickly. Although my long-standing opinion of Ark’s devs has been they tend to come up with great ideas, then fall short on the execution of those ideas.

At the end of the day I’m not arguing for the change, merely for a tempering of attitudes in reacting to change and a resetting of expectation with regards to change in EA. This change will be but one of many. To the extent that people understand and are prepared for that fact, the process will improve for all concerned.