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gnihar

officialpvp Lawless after wipe?

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9 hours ago, Percieval said:

Oh I’m all up for it. But this guy has been flat out pessimistic about the entire new system and calling out slave and slavers all the time - even though there already was a slave - slaver system in the game, since large companies could just farm the little ones. Now we and they are just gonna do it in a certain timeframe so it’s based off of nothing, hell it’s even made better. When Realist did the exact same thing people were all falling over him and the world was too small. Have my piece of gratitude. 

There was a substantial difference though.

A difference you can not ignore if you played ATLAS PVP.

No zerg was every really concerned for lawless tribes  (unless there was a personal beef or direct provocation (res blocking, griefing), like Diamond vs Saviors on EU PVP or Corsaires vs Shadowlords for diamond blocking).

That meant independent tribes could actually live and thrive on lawless, sometimes even making great bases that zerg was not raiding, deeming them "too much trouble to raid anyway".

But if devs decide to ignore this unexpected boom of lawless tribes, and not provide way for us to maintain our foundations and buildings, or even place cannons there, that would probably mean they are willing to ignore a huge part of community and force vassal-serf system to anyone and all, even though now there is an alternative way of life present and viable.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/7/2019 at 6:08 PM, Percieval said:

I’m really wondering what the devs have in mind to tackle the mega companies controlling 100 islands in cartel form. It’s easily done.

well most companies do not care about controlling 100 islands as it is a mess to defend and sustain even without upkeep... atm it is easy enough to ignore the upkeep cost on one island that is your mainbase for a big company if they split up in divisions... in most cases companies merged and had control over a ton random islands that way cuz of inactivity of players...

 

probably impossible to keep a base on lawless on the first ptr patch but we will see...

Edited by Wichtelman

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45 minutes ago, gnihar said:

There was a substantial difference though.

A difference you can not ignore if you played ATLAS PVP.

No zerg was every really concerned for lawless tribes  (unless there was a personal beef or direct provocation (res blocking, griefing), like Diamond vs Saviors on EU PVP or Corsaires vs Shadowlords for diamond blocking).

That meant independent tribes could actually live and thrive on lawless, sometimes even making great bases that zerg was not raiding, deeming them "too much trouble to raid anyway".

But if devs decide to ignore this unexpected boom of lawless tribes, and not provide way for us to maintain our foundations and buildings, or even place cannons there, that would probably mean they are willing to ignore a huge part of community and force vassal-serf system to anyone and all, even though now there is an alternative way of life present and viable.

Oh definitely, I’m not denying that lawless tribes are a thing. I was talking about the 1000 lashes to the new system, not about the lawless. But yes you’re right. 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Wichtelman said:

well most companies do not care about controlling 100 islands as it is a mess to defend and sustain even without upkeep... atm it is easy enough to ignore the upkeep cost on one island that is your mainbase for a big company if they split up in divisions... in most cases companies merged and had control over a ton random islands that way cuz of inactivity of players...

 

probably impossible to keep a base on lawless on the first ptr patch but we will see...

Well let’s say you surround your core islands with 20 of them, you really only need to defend those 20. If that one has the most players, it’s only a matter of ‘there’s war here, so all come’ - same with raids. That’s why (in my opinion) they should make it so that beds come unavailable during war hours (on the specific island(s))  Raid hours with maybe a cap or something like that. Cartel forming is really easily done. Just control the settlement, build a base and when it gets attacked (since we will be seeing what gets destroyed with coordinates and all) just everyone spawn there and defend it. Only way I see raids against mega tribes doable is if you declare war on all of the islands or maybe spread out and then do a surprise attack, but then again: Only if you can’t use beds. 

Edited by Percieval

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Posted (edited)

why would i want random islands just for the sake of having them?

maybe id get islands under control for bp mats but thats about it...

if you just build on one islands and have a massive base there crewmembers and tames starve or mutiny and you dont even know where it happened cuz most players do not think strategic about that... if you control more islands this multiplies and random attacks + multiple wartokens can be used vs you... did you never exp max travel count reached or 150 player server limit?

btw how do you raid a server/island if there are 150 active players on it?

 

 

Edited by Wichtelman

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4 minutes ago, Wichtelman said:

why would i want random islands just for the sake of having them?

maybe id get islands under control for bp mats but thats about it...

if you just build on one islands and have a massive base there crewmembers and tames starve or mutiny and you dont even know where it happened cuz most players do not think strategic about that... if you control more islands this multiplies and random attacks + multiple wartokens can be used vs you...

 

 

Remember, we are talking zerg here.

They have huge number of members and will claim islands just to say to control them. Either them or their shadow tribes (secretly owned by their members).

They will see a small tribe on an island and will decide to give it 2 options: merge or unclaim by force.

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Posted (edited)

yes shadow tribes will be a thing but more to ignore upkeep cost of an important island and not to control random islands everywhere... they probably raid those islands but it would be totally stupid and non strategic to build bases/claim land there...

Edited by Wichtelman

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Lets hope that there will be a life outside of the Zerg.

Most likely it will go the same way as after the start at christmas. A big massacre and raids everywhere but after some weeks we will have our peace again 😉😊

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2 hours ago, Wichtelman said:

why would i want random islands just for the sake of having them?

maybe id get islands under control for bp mats but thats about it...

if you just build on one islands and have a massive base there crewmembers and tames starve or mutiny and you dont even know where it happened cuz most players do not think strategic about that... if you control more islands this multiplies and random attacks + multiple wartokens can be used vs you... did you never exp max travel count reached or 150 player server limit?

btw how do you raid a server/island if there are 150 active players on it?

 

 

Evidently, you have never been part of a large group in either ARK or ATLAS 

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Posted (edited)

and you "percieval" just ignore the updates and what strain you put on yourself and your company if you claim random useless land... doesnt matter it is your opinion and you a free to have that...

 

edit: we talked about a cartel system and large companies claiming more than +5 islands outside of bp mats farming?

there will be no war with the currently planned system if the company + shadow tribes are active enough to fill a server... there will be raids vs small companies all over the place but it will become pointless to expand after the update...

Edited by Wichtelman

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2 minutes ago, Wichtelman said:

and you "percieval" just ignore the updates and what strain you put on yourself and your company if you claim random useless land... doesnt matter it is your opinion and you a free to have that...

I don’t think you got any of my posts. I never said that I ignore updates or that I will claim useless land. Not sure what this post is about, maybe a misunderstanding. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Talono said:

Lets hope that there will be a life outside of the Zerg.

Most likely it will go the same way as after the start at christmas. A big massacre and raids everywhere but after some weeks we will have our peace again 😉😊

The devs don't want people living long term in lawless. We still have to see what the damage decay on all structures is like and how aggressive it is, but with no auto repair structure for lawless regardless of how aggressive it is it will likely make anything larger than a small starter home untenable.

Edited by Kidori
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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Kidori said:

The devs don't want people living long term in lawless. We still have to see what the damage decay on all structures is like and how aggressive it is, but with no auto repair structure for lawless regardless of how aggressive it is it will likely make anything larger than a small starter home untenable.

This. If the devs want to destroy lawless and antagonize a decent chunk of their player base (they should know exactly how big the lawless fan base is better than me, if they had any business intelligence tools and able to interpret data from servers)...

...then they will make lawless unlivable on.

Any sort of damage decay, regardless on how aggressive it is, without the means to automatically repair or counter it, will rule out any substantial building on lawless, thus making it an absolute no-no to live in.

EDIT:Any manual shit regarding the repairs, regardless on the thing, feels tedious as it is. Look under "repairing the out-of-combat ship parts other than planks/cannons/deck". Yes - annoying and tedious as frick.

What remains to be seen is, how many players will leave the game due to it.

Edited by gnihar

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13 minutes ago, gnihar said:

This. If the devs want to destroy lawless and antagonize a decent chunk of their player base (they should know exactly how big the lawless fan base is better than me, if they had any business intelligence tools and able to interpret data from servers)...

...then they will make lawless unlivable on.

Any sort of damage decay, regardless on how aggressive it is, without the means to automatically repair or counter it, will rule out any substantial building on lawless, thus making it an absolute no-no to live in.

EDIT:Any manual shit regarding the repairs, regardless on the thing, feels tedious as it is. Look under "repairing the out-of-combat ship parts other than planks/cannons/deck". Yes - annoying and tedious as frick.

What remains to be seen is, how many players will leave the game due to it.

And that it why we need a good claiming system so we can get rid of lawless once and for all. But that’s a little far fetched 🤔

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5 minutes ago, gnihar said:

This. If the devs want to destroy lawless and antagonize a decent chunk of their player base (they should know exactly how big the lawless fan base is better than me, if they had any business intelligence tools and able to interpret data from servers)...

...then they will make lawless unlivable on.

Any sort of damage decay, regardless on how aggressive it is, without the means to automatically repair or counter it, will rule out any substantial building on lawless, thus making it an absolute no-no to live in.

EDIT:Any manual shit regarding the repairs, regardless on the thing, feels tedious as it is. Look under "repairing the out-of-combat ship parts other than planks/cannons/deck". Yes - annoying and tedious as frick.

What remains to be seen is, how many players will leave the game due to it.

My Company and I were living in lawless right up until the wipe announcement.  We are a company of 14.  After reading all the captains logs, we decided we will not be able to come back to lawless. From those posts we understood anything more than a tiny hut will be untenable. I personally saw from when I started playing that it looked like lawless was always supposed to be just another stepping stone down the path to the development of your character. Never meant to be lived in permanently.  It looks like the devs have decided to enforce that and perhaps shift the roles of lawless a bit. More of a resource gathering point now. The lawless zones as character development path is obviously no longer needed (the ability to spawn and build anywhere negates this). Most companies were in lawless because they didn't have to deal with the flag system (or couldn't).  We ended up there when the mega who dominated our tile decided to poke a stick in the eye of another mega, our lands got razed in part of that blowback.

I see where you are coming from but it is not as big of a deal as you make it out to be in my opinion. I also do not think anyone (except perhaps you) will be leaving the game in large numbers because of this change. I think you are self projecting a bit here because you want it to be that way.  I also think the new system might be better than you think. Since lawless can no longer be used as a base tile, my company and I will be getting a small island.  We have zero plans to troll anyone who decides to settle there. We got along great and had a nice island alliance in lawless, we were by far the largest group on the island everyone else were solos and tiny companies of 2-4. I see our new island being similar, us as the larger group and hopefully a few small companies who wish to join us. 

I am sorry your preferred place will no longer be viable, my company is/was in the same boat. But I don't think the sky is falling and we will just adapt. 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, SIEGEGUN said:

My Company and I were living in lawless right up until the wipe announcement.  We are a company of 14.  After reading all the captains logs, we decided we will not be able to come back to lawless. From those posts we understood anything more than a tiny hut will be untenable. I personally saw from when I started playing that it looked like lawless was always supposed to be just another stepping stone down the path to the development of your character. Never meant to be lived in permanently.  It looks like the devs have decided to enforce that and perhaps shift the roles of lawless a bit. More of a resource gathering point now. The lawless zones as character development path is obviously no longer needed (the ability to spawn and build anywhere negates this). Most companies were in lawless because they didn't have to deal with the flag system (or couldn't).  We ended up there when the mega who dominated our tile decided to poke a stick in the eye of another mega, our lands got razed in part of that blowback.

I see where you are coming from but it is not as big of a deal as you make it out to be in my opinion. I also do not think anyone (except perhaps you) will be leaving the game in large numbers because of this change. I think you are self projecting a bit here because you want it to be that way.  I also think the new system might be better than you think. Since lawless can no longer be used as a base tile, my company and I will be getting a small island.  We have zero plans to troll anyone who decides to settle there. We got along great and had a nice island alliance in lawless, we were by far the largest group on the island everyone else were solos and tiny companies of 2-4. I see our new island being similar, us as the larger group and hopefully a few small companies who wish to join us. 

I am sorry your preferred place will no longer be viable, my company is/was in the same boat. But I don't think the sky is falling and we will just adapt. 

Surely I will not be leaving the game immediately after the planned change, for I am willing to give claimed one chance, where I will seek either to dominate island or have nothing to do with it. If this test goes wrong and it turns out that you can not be your own master in PVP official, only then I will be leaving Atlas for good. If however it turns out that players with small numbered tribe or even solos can live independently and are given the chance to make it so, then surely this is the game for me.

But as I said on my initial post, unless they decide to leave lawless as a viable choice, I see chances of that happening are slim and IMO small tribes and especially solos are the thing of the past when it comes to being their own masters - unless they are subsidiaries for larger tribe, or their junior partners.

What I would not want to see, is devs enforcing certain player style. This is the path to doom, and frankly, it is not needed, as we already have nice lawless as alternative to master-servant game that is being offered as main dish.

 

edit: Not wanting to be a prophet here, but triggered by your "projecting" statement, where you willingly or subconsciously belittle the firm pro-lawless stand, I foresee your group being approached by a zerg asking to "please remove claim:)" and assimilate soonish after you set your flag on island. Something that on lawless would have never happened, and where you would have been avoided by zerg as you were before.

Edited by gnihar
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I do not think it will be like you think it will be. They are adding a TON more land and more importantly the offline window. My company did not move to lawless because we were wiped, we moved because we were offlined. We were not even there. If there were windows as in the coming system it never would have happened the way it did. We could have defended our claims. Instead we were PvWalled.  We had already rebuilt 3 times. We could have defended if the new raid windows were in place, and we had half the people then, we doubled in size after we moved. 

I did not belittle any stand. I do not think lawless was ever intended to be used the way it is used. It is and was used that way because of the terrible land claim system. It is and was used to avoid the mess that system introduced and encouraged. As far as someone coming to "take" our claim, they are welcome to. I encourage it, they will need to have a war token and then we can actually FIGHT. I play on a pvp server to you know... fight. And our allies and settlers (slaves to you somehow)will join us in defense. That's how the game SHOULD be. Not logging in the next day to find all your stuff offlined because you have a life. 

I do hope you can play and have fun under the new system and hopefully you will keep playing.

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I hope lawless is not made unlivable on.

It makes a perfect staging point for building and growing your company, and, in the end, if we so choose, a starting point where an invasion can be launched on a claimed area and when zerg begins to fall apart and leave the game, become kings ourselves one day.

Lawless, even as it is now, contributes to the scheme of developers maybe more than they know, and I believe that the power of free will and choice is far more positive and great than imposing a rule set to play by. More freedom to choose= the better.

Hopefully the devs realize this and do not destroy lawless.

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On 3/6/2019 at 4:23 PM, Talono said:

Yes, all islands lawless please, no decay, no claim flags and no raid time windows amd war token crap = everyone happy

PREACH!

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