Unsatisfying resource cost fix for stone.

[mndfreeze 92]

12 minutes ago, Jean Lafitte said:

I don't mind one bit leaving my island for resources.  I love trading and have done that in other mmo's. But goddammit, gimme something worth fucking trading... do you get the picture????

 

*ALL* resources are worth trading for.  Have you gotten any blueprints?  They all require multiple types of the same resource.  We trade our metal for other peoples metal, our fiber for other fiber types, etc.  To say  you have nothing to trade is just scapegoating and again, you don't even need to trade for sap. You can just go sail and farm it yourself. It will take you a few hours at most.

 

13 minutes ago, Sneakydude said:

Nope they just take over islands, and spawn in what they want and when they want. It has nothing to do with it, but it has everything to do with it. Taking over islands where you have to farm mats, making it impossible to travel to and set foot on by mega tribes to be one shot by cheats has everything to do with the current system too. Like i said the devs could not count on this being a problem either.

Again, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand what so ever.  You can get sap AT FREEPORTS where no amount of large tribes doing anything can affect you.

 

10 minutes ago, Grongash said:

You have never been to the tundra, clearly. We dont have SotD... we have SotD in conga-lines. Dont talk about how easy it is to dodge them. Yes, one.. or two.. or 3. But normally in that region we have a LOT at the same time and we have to play frogger to even get through.

 

We didnt settle in tundra because of the beautiful ambiente. Do you think we sailed past those tropical paradises on the way just thinking "meh, too easy"? With small companies hoggin whole islands and the current claim system it isnt quite as easy as you make it sound. Also, no one was asking for a free pass. But if there are a lot of mats lacking in tundra we either need a resource to trade (we have metric tons of rasperry, but thats it) or we need some sort of sap. Not unheard of to actuallly happen in tundra regions anyway. But hey. We have murderous Mantas, so im not holding my breath.

Right, Apparently you didn't bother to read where I clearly stated we travel all over from frozen to the desert to get the mats we need.  I've been there.  It's still not that hard.  If you can't man a damn sloop through that then you are doing something wrong. 

As for the claiming system, I'm in a medium to smallish guild.  We have taken over the biggest island in our server (which happens to be right next to some lovely aggressive mega tribes) and 2 other small ones here.  Not only that but we did it AGAINST one of those big mega tribes. So if a handful of us can land on shore and figure out how to take it over I'm sure you guys all can too if you put some effort into it.  If you play  PvE well, can't help you there. This game was obviously designed to be for pvp. 

And again, you can always go to freeports and lawless zones to farm.

 

[mndfreeze 92]

8 minutes ago, Sneakydude said:

Yup the way the system works now pvp is rather difficult to care to play on, unless you can offline raid those areas for resources and or not get caught doing it. The second most issue is big gates blocking all those resources. Lets try to sneak in, nope now you got them on your shore taking out your buildings the next morning when your offline and all your ships. Its so much fun Jat!!! really it is. Being really sarcastic here, and trying to still love the game play... just not working for some of us.

OH yeah forgot to mention?? remember those gates built around islands already? no sap, no metal used to make them. It was a spam click spam click.. Still trying to get resources? i suggest wiping it...

fffffffffrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppppppoooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrtttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

 

 

[Sneakydude 143]

No use arguing with a no it all.

[mndfreeze 92]

No use arguing with someone who doesn't want to actually fix the problem and expects handouts.  You're welcome for giving you a solution to your problem though obviously you just want to complain.

etc.

[Jean Lafitte 451]

3 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

*ALL* resources are worth trading for.  Have you gotten any blueprints?  They all require multiple types of the same resource.  We trade our metal for other peoples metal, our fiber for other fiber types, etc.  To say  you have nothing to trade is just scapegoating and again, you don't even need to trade for sap. You can just go sail and farm it yourself. It will take you a few hours at most.

I'll trade you my 100k berries for your 100k sap. Deal?

No?  How about wood?  Still no? Rocks?  Oh come on.  Thatch?

Well, damn. That's all I got where I live. Guess I'm shit outta luck.

Ya know what, you're gonna keep preaching your bullshit philosophy and I'm not changing my mind.  Done.

The jist of all of this is, I don't mind trading. Give me something to trade for.  And I don't mind that I need metal or paste to make stone. What I do mind is that I'm FORCED to use stone if I don't want my shit destroyed by snakes, wolves and lions overnight.  Otherwise, I wouldn't give 2 shits.

[Jizzah 37]

15 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

No use arguing with someone who doesn't want to actually fix the problem and expects handouts.  You're welcome for giving you a solution to your problem though obviously you just want to complain.

etc.

With all due respect, you're constantly regurgitating the same tired points to justify what is a poor argument.  Yes, they're trying to encourage travel and trade and I'm fine with that.  However, that travel is already BEING encouraged through existing game mechanics. 

• Want to build those shiny new pistols from that blueprint?  Well, you'll need other resources not in your area.
• Want to remove the old age debuff?  Well, the fountain can do that and it's mobile.
• Found a nice map with thousands of gold?  Unlucky, that's miles away-better get sailing.

 

The question here is not about sailing, it's about protection.  Lesser materials afford protection that is countered by aggression and teeth, so you can find your carefully collected resources deleted UNLESS you build with stone.  This is something that was apparent centuries before humanity discovered gunpowder and yet somehow the goalposts got shifted by an short-sighted developer to include a material that has absolutely no historical link to that building practice whatsoever.

Farcical. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Jizzah

[mndfreeze 92]

Just now, Jean Lafitte said:

I'll trade you my 100k berries for your 100k sap. Deal?

No?  How about wood?  Still no? Rocks?  Oh come on.  Thatch?

Well, damn. That's all I got where I live. Guess I'm shit outta luck.

Ya know what, you're gonna keep preaching your bullshit philosophy and I'm not changing my mind.  Done.

The jist of all of this is, I don't mind trading. Give me something to trade for.  And I don't mind that I need metal or paste to make stone. What I do mind is that I'm FORCED to use stone if I don't want my shit destroyed by snakes, wolves and lions overnight.  Otherwise, I wouldn't give 2 shits.

Nope.  Wood will definitely trade tho. So will thatch.  We just traded a bunch of thatch the other day.  Stone might now that the changes to make it more vulnerable to explosives may cause people to want to use blueprints for their secure structures but idk if it's worth it or not.

You also only need to do the bottom layer of stone if you are so worried about animals and that being the reason.  You can once again, spend a few hours sailing to a freeport and make alllllllll the paste you want.  You can get enough metal from just banging out normal rocks but i *KNOW* there is metal in the tundra and polar regions.  

 

[mndfreeze 92]

1 minute ago, Jizzah said:

With all due respect, you're regurgitating the same tired arguments to justify what is a poor argument.  Yews, they're trying to encourage travel and trade and I'm fine with that.  However, that travel is already BEING encouraged through existing gamer mechanics. 

• Want to build those shiny new pistols from that blueprint?  Well, you'll need other resources not in your area.
• Want to remove the old age debuff?  Well, the fountain can do that and it's mobile.
• Found a nice map with thousands of gold?  Unlucky, that's miles away-better get sailing.

 

The question here is not about sailing, it's about protection.  Lesser materials afford protection that is countered by aggression and teeth, so you can find your carefully collected resources deleted UNLESS you build with stone.  This is something that was apparent centuries before humanity discovered gunpowder and yet somehow the goalposts got shifted by an short-sighted developer to include a material that has absolutely no historical link to that building practice whatsoever.

Farcical. 

There is nothing poor about it.  People are literally trying to claim in this thread they CANT GET SAP because mega tribes have 'walled it all off' and its 'not accessible'.  When it very clearly is, in mass amounts, in a safe space freeport.  They just don't want to put any effort forth and are coming up with any and all excuses to bitch and ask for handouts.  

As for protection, the animal argument is fairly silly because you can just build some extra fencing around your shit on the bottom layer and agro animals will get trapped, or, you can spent MINIMAL paste and metals to build just the bottom layer out of stone.  In the grand scheme of things that argument is minuscule in scope and complexity.  Know how I know this?  We have on our island a gross little thatch harbor with a ton of buildings that our more RP minded guildies like.  We call it 'shanty town'.  Its fucking thatch.  ALPHAS spawn in that shit all the time.  Shanty town and all its stuff is still standing. Every now and then maybe a wall breaks(rare) but 99.99999999% of the time the animals just get stuck in there and don't attack anything at all and are easily killed with a bow.

There are no historical links of dragons attacking galleons or cyclops roaming around either.  This is a video game so the historical points serve no purpose in this discussion nor does the building materials need to be at all realistic.  Nothing about this game is 'realistic' because its a game.

Always on Survival games are time sink games. Those with the most time will always beat out those who don't have time.  If someone doesn't have the time to sail to get some sap then perhaps this game isn't for them or they need to join a tribe so they have people who CAN.  These types of games also do not favor people who aren't willing to put a smidgen of effort forth to understand the AI and how insanely easy it is to build around.  It's literally only as complex as putting an extra row of foundations around the outside of your building and putting a bunch of wood door frames with no doors on them, in a ring.  With alllll the time you now have with a safe wood building you can now go sail to a freeport, get yourself some sap, and build enough stone walls to ring the bottom of your structure, or you could even farm enough paste to bring back to redo it all in stone.  

As for your shortsighted comment, this is part of early access.  Numbers and balance is going to change.  The stone walls change was needed.  They were far too easy to crank out in huge numbers and spam everywhere and raiding was nigh impossible.  With the explosive changes and cost increase is now easier for you to go raid someone else and create conflict if trade isn't your bag and you can take all their sap and metal, deconstruct their buildings, etc.

 

 

[Jizzah 37]

4 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

There is nothing poor about it.  People are literally trying to claim in this thread they CANT GET SAP because mega tribes have 'walled it all off' and its 'not accessible'.  When it very clearly is, in mass amounts, in a safe space freeport.  They just don't want to put any effort forth and are coming up with any and all excuses to bitch and ask for handouts.  

As for protection, the animal argument is fairly silly because you can just build some extra fencing around your shit on the bottom layer and agro animals will get trapped, or, you can spent MINIMAL paste and metals to build just the bottom layer out of stone.  In the grand scheme of things that argument is minuscule in scope and complexity.  Know how I know this?  We have on our island a gross little thatch harbor with a ton of buildings that our more RP minded guildies like.  We call it 'shanty town'.  Its fucking thatch.  ALPHAS spawn in that shit all the time.  Shanty town and all its stuff is still standing. Every now and then maybe a wall breaks(rare) but 99.99999999% of the time the animals just get stuck in there and don't attack anything at all and are easily killed with a bow.

There are no historical links of dragons attacking galleons or cyclops roaming around either.  This is a video game so the historical points serve no purpose in this discussion nor does the building materials need to be at all realistic.  Nothing about this game is 'realistic' because its a game.

Always on Survival games are time sink games. Those with the most time will always beat out those who don't have time.  If someone doesn't have the time to sail to get some sap then perhaps this game isn't for them or they need to join a tribe so they have people who CAN.  These types of games also do not favor people who aren't willing to put a smidgen of effort forth to understand the AI and how insanely easy it is to build around.  It's literally only as complex as putting an extra row of foundations around the outside of your building and putting a bunch of wood door frames with no doors on them, in a ring.  With alllll the time you now have with a safe wood building you can now go sail to a freeport, get yourself some sap, and build enough stone walls to ring the bottom of your structure, or you could even farm enough paste to bring back to redo it all in stone.  

As for your shortsighted comment, this is part of early access.  Numbers and balance is going to change.  The stone walls change was needed.  They were far too easy to crank out in huge numbers and spam everywhere and raiding was nigh impossible.  With the explosive changes and cost increase is now easier for you to go raid someone else and create conflict if trade isn't your bag and you can take all their sap and metal, deconstruct their buildings, etc.

 

 

So, no response to the main point of my argument insofar as the inherent need for travel is pre-existing.  Rather you're focusing on 'it's only a game', in early access and in order to have any hope of having a 'fun' experience, you'll need to consider it a second job.

 

You're not very good at this are you? 

[Jean Lafitte 451]

19 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

You also only need to do the bottom layer of stone if you are so worried about animals and that being the reason.  You can once again, spend a few hours sailing to a freeport and make alllllllll the paste you want.  You can get enough metal from just banging out normal rocks but i *KNOW* there is metal in the tundra and polar regions.  

Incorrect. I've had them chew on walls, floors, doors... all of my crafting tables are 1 square away from a wall because they can even chew through it. I have a wooden pier with wood railings. All of the floors are damaged and half the railings because of wolves, lions and snakes.

And it's not like they give up when you walk away. And for some real fun, watch an alpha snake chew your wooden pier to bits some time.  Wooden ceilings on stone pillars. They eat through them like cardboard.

Come to my island. It's a 2 island grid. The islands are huge. On mine... no... metal... I have seen exactly ONE sulphur node and that's pretty useless.

[Talono 434]

This is not a fix but just a „calm down“ chocolate bar. Which is changing nothing about the fact, that many islands have no sap.

Hauling sap through the SOD blockade fleet is not funny and takes for hours. I wont take part in Grapeshots latest destruction of life time.

Islands without Sap are worthless now, this will increase the pressure on islands with Sap.

Grapeshot/Wildcard have always patched full fail and will never change that.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Talono

[mndfreeze 92]

Leave.

Your.

Island.

Not all grids have metal. This is by design.  Not all grids have salt.  This is by design.  Not all grids have XXXXXX resource.  This is by design.  

 

I never said the animals couldn't bite through walls at stuff on the inside.  The 'need stone walls' argument comes from the others as their justification for why they should have sap on their island or why stone shouldn't cost paste.  I'm the one that clearly said to ring your buildings with an extra layer on the outside to trap them and offered up to additionally go make some stone for the bottom if they are worried about them breaking their base down.  You're not reading the entire thread and taking my comment out of context.

[Jizzah 37]

1 minute ago, mndfreeze said:

Leave.

Your.

Island.

Not all grids have metal. This is by design.  Not all grids have salt.  This is by design.  Not all grids have XXXXXX resource.  This is by design.  

 

I never said the animals couldn't bite through walls at stuff on the inside.  The 'need stone walls' argument comes from the others as their justification for why they should have sap on their island or why stone shouldn't cost paste.  I'm the one that clearly said to ring your buildings with an extra layer on the outside to trap them and offered up to additionally go make some stone for the bottom if they are worried about them breaking their base down.  You're not reading the entire thread and taking my comment out of context.

I do.  I travel for maps, I travel for materials-it's part of the game.  The quantities now required however are proscriptive for any meaningful build.  And before you rattle on about freeport sap, lets look at he supposed reasoning behind this change-large gate spam.

 

Do the math-a large gate is 11 tiles long and roughly 13 high.  Work out how much sap and metal that takes, then compare to making that same structure with wall tiles.

[Percieval 1,067]

21 minutes ago, Jizzah said:

I do.  I travel for maps, I travel for materials-it's part of the game.  The quantities now required however are proscriptive for any meaningful build.  And before you rattle on about freeport sap, lets look at he supposed reasoning behind this change-large gate spam.

 

Do the math-a large gate is 11 tiles long and roughly 13 high.  Work out how much sap and metal that takes, then compare to making that same structure with wall tiles.

 

25 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

Leave.

Your.

Island.

Not all grids have metal. This is by design.  Not all grids have salt.  This is by design.  Not all grids have XXXXXX resource.  This is by design.  

 

I never said the animals couldn't bite through walls at stuff on the inside.  The 'need stone walls' argument comes from the others as their justification for why they should have sap on their island or why stone shouldn't cost paste.  I'm the one that clearly said to ring your buildings with an extra layer on the outside to trap them and offered up to additionally go make some stone for the bottom if they are worried about them breaking their base down.  You're not reading the entire thread and taking my comment out of context.

Easier said than done. We’re playing PvP and have all materials on our island, but if you don’t.. try get a trade done. I believe this is some kind of pre-update on the market one. I think we’re gonna sell a lot of metal and paste there. Which is pretty stupid because not only don’t they have the items, they will have to pay for it too. 

We benefit from this update double, they are screwed double. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Percieval

[Flint 1]

My suggestion:

Get Sap from Berries like Metal from Rocks.

With that you have some Basic supplies but not enought for mass production.

[Grongash 201]

2 hours ago, Jean Lafitte said:

Wait, you forgot the Galleon smashing whales.

Pfft its a well known fact that whales go for ships all the time  All that whaling was pure self defense

[Mortimer McMaron 13]

This change is stupid. Like many other ideas the devs had. 

Think good and long about all ressources needed for some builds, before releasing a game. So for now i need metal and organic paste to build my harbour city? Just overnight, you've changed the system? Thats so frustrating, seeing devs they don't play theyre own game or just with admin tools. No testing, just changing and waiting for the next shitstorm?

 

Yes, yes, its Early Access and we are testers, paying for the test. Sure. Thanks.

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Mortimer McMaron

[vaylain 227]

5 hours ago, mndfreeze said:

a)  There was no 'git gud' in my post.  Stop being so defensive.  I merely stated what the devs said was part of their design goal.

b) OH GNOES YOU HAVE TO SAIL FARTHER. GASP.  Ships of the damned are fucking easy as fuck to dodge.  You damn near have to kiss em to get agro in a small boat.  SHOCKINGLY you can carry a low level bear even on a SMALL BOAT.  All you need to do is sail to the freeport that has sap. It does NOT take that long to sail multiple grids.  We do it all the time.  We sail to and from the tundra to tropical to desert just about on a daily basis to get resources we need to build things. 

c) Dealing with hurricanes is as simple as having repair materials.  It's not that hard, at all, even solo.

d) move out of the tundra if you don't like the resource spread there and don't want to have to travel to get stuff.  I have to travel TOO the tundra to get things.

 

F You. Sailing in this damned game sucks so bad. It is absolutely boring and we don't need a pompous prick like you to give us any advice or sarcastic comments.

[LaiTash 156]

2 hours ago, mndfreeze said:

They were far too easy to crank out in huge numbers and spam everywhere and raiding was nigh impossible

Yet you've managed to get an island (or was it 3 islands?) from one of those overly agressive mega tribes...

Raiding was always possible, it's just that if you wanted to ruin someone's weeks of work while they sleep you actually had to put some effort in it. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by LaiTash

[mndfreeze 92]

Then leave?  If people want to respond to my posts as assholes I'm going to reply the same.  No one is forcing you to read my posts or anyone elses.

[mndfreeze 92]

Just now, LaiTash said:

Yet you've managed to get an island (or was it 3 islands?) from one of those overly agressive mega tribes...

Raiding was always possible, it's just that if you wanted to ruin someone's months of work while they sleep you actually had to put some effort in it. 

One main island and 2 small ones. Yes. We just did it with tactics and persistence.  One (the megas) island took us about 14 hours *WITH* crashing and patching happening during the middle.  

Also, they were there fighting back so that's not exactly offlining is it.  You are just talking out of your ass about shit you don't understand.  Land raiding prior to the change was damn near impossible.  If you decide to try out PVP one day maybe you'll see.  

 

[LaiTash 156]

10 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

One main island and 2 small ones. Yes. We just did it with tactics and persistence.  One (the megas) island took us about 14 hours *WITH* crashing and patching happening during the middle.  

Also, they were there fighting back so that's not exactly offlining is it.  You are just talking out of your ass about shit you don't understand.  Land raiding prior to the change was damn near impossible.  If you decide to try out PVP one day maybe you'll see.  

 

So you took 3 islands from a mega company and the largest one in just 14 hours and they were online too. So much for "nigh impossible", hey?

Yes it was possible and people were doing it all the time. It just required time, good coordination, resources, people, and more time. That is if the enemy had proper defences. 

Just like it takes all that and even more to build stuff.

And now the megas will just add another layer or two of stone to their land bases while small groups and all the poor souls living in regions where resources a scarce are getting the short end of the stick again.

Edited January 26, 2019 by LaiTash

[mndfreeze 92]

 

21 minutes ago, LaiTash said:

So you took 3 islands from a mega company and the largest one in just 14 hours and they were online too. So much for "nigh impossible", hey?

Yes it was possible and people were doing it all the time. It just required time, good coordination, resources, people, and more time. That is if the enemy had proper defences. 

Just like it takes all that and even more to build stuff.

No. We took the big island first (not from a mega), took a second island later from a few other different groups that were hostile, and took the third from the mega to finish taking over our grid of hostiles. The third was the 14 hour raid and these all took place at different times and days.   14 hours is a long time to raid a small island.  BTW, since most people don't seem to get it, you take the island with claims and you only need to actually crack buildings that have sleepers or people to get to beds.  So in all that 14 hours about 10 of it was spent cracking into one giant clusterfuck of stone spam because claiming wasn't an option for it.  

This game is not supposed to have safe spaces.  The devs already stated they would always favor the defender but shit was very obviously out of balance before when the cost of raiding is so insanely high that even small groups of people can hold off huge guilds (see late shift, pirate bae, etc if you want to see hours of raiding attempts).  The building spam is atrocious and causes lag.  These changes were very much needed because the pvp meta was stale and dead.  Island control is supposed to be in a constant state of flux as factions war to gain and lose control over them.  If someone is going to spam that much then the cost needs to be increased to be closer to the insane cost of raiding, otherwise there is no point.  Loot itself is not really worth anything in this game regardless of what people think.  If you are big enough to raid then you generally are big enough to get anything you need and short of some lucky quality crafts or something they might have the only thing worth really taking is their land and starting them over in the freeport.

 

[LaiTash 156]

6 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

14 hours is a long time to raid a small island

No it's not a long time. It took people much longer to build there. As long as having a mobile base on a ship is not a viable option raiding should take a lot of time.

As for the building spam well expect more of it now. Not only the stone was nerfed they made it nearly impossible for some to build with it so instead of 4 layers of stone we'll get 12 layers of wood. Happy lagging.

Edited January 26, 2019 by LaiTash

[xenobiaa 40]

i think you guys are missing the point here, stone building parts shouldnt cost materials that you cant easily access, everyone should be able to build them, the cost should be what it originally was, STONE THATCH FIBER WOOD