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boomervoncannon

Why everyone who cares about Atlas should have a close look at No Man's Sky

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35 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

Realist you are right in that skilled up harvesting is just as good or better than tames.

Not at all. U will never get so much wood by hand in the same time as with an ele - never.

For stone the same with the rhino. If you need metal, leave the rhino at home. There are pickaxes the boss.

Taking a giraffe for thatch is the noobway. Grab a bear and farm thatch grounds. One slap and you can get 2k thatch. Nothing is better. (unfortunately not all islands and biomes get these thatch grounds in a good amount).

Fiber is selfexplaining. Bear > all.

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8 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

Why do you think it's bad if people wanting to play a pirate centric game don't want to have to use tames to play the game? Why would it be bad if hand harvesting were equally as viable as tames? Does other people wanting to sail and do pirate stuff without having to mess with tames somehow make your Atlas experience less fun? You say it's a sad conclusion, but if tames are in the game and you enjoy them, that's fine. I see nothing wrong with other people not being forced to go down the same path you like just because they prefer something else.

Personally I can take or leave the tames. To me they are neither central to Atlas nor it's downfall. But I will say this, when people complain that a game that is supposed to be about sailing and pirating say they feel forced to use tames to play efficiently or get left behind, that strikes me as a very valid gripe and one the developers should not ignore.

Quick, what was the name of Blackbeard's horse?

How many elephants did they use to build the pirate enclave at Tortuga?

Did the Barbary pirates use tigers or bears when fighting off the US Marines at Tripoli?

Right.

That is why they have the hand harvesting skill. But no, hand harvesting should not be just as efficient as tames. That really doesn’t make sense because then tames wouldn’t be important. People have the option to harvest by hand or with a tame. They can choose the less efficient if they want but it will remain less efficient.

that is the fantasy of atlas. Everyone says fantasy, well I say taming a bear and riding it is fantasy. There we go taming is the fantasy aspect of atlas.

if the Megas and other companies want to alliance up and not be pirates that is on them, not the company. For all of the stuff about the game not being pirate enough, the blame falls on the players for that part. It’s their fault for becoming Megas. It their fault for joining an alliance.

this company has messed up a lot with things like the claim system and vitamin system and so forth, but in the end the players killed the pirates.

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8 hours ago, The D Legacy said:

well i have nothing against tames to be honest, i have always been on the side of variety in all games, but the game design is poor as fuck, i will share a little story to portrait what i mean:

day 1: trying to tame a olfend i got it to 98% tamed just for a volture to show up and start killing it, i react on time and shoot an arrow to it (important to notice the vulture was 45º above ground while the olfend was lying on the floor), i shoot at the vulture and my olfend dies from it...the arrow was stuck in the fucking vulture but the olfend took the damage!! GG ATLAS

day 2: i go after the olfend again this time i kill all vultures on sight first as well as all hostile life forms, i start taming and at 50% suddenly a lion rains on me , because...fuck physics, it kills the olfend, i use that time to mount my bear with the intention to kill it, it unmounts me, kills me and kills my bear.

day 3: i re-tame my bear and try to tame a giraffe, i set few gates to act as a jail and not be interrupted, i start taming it and after like 40% suddenly its mate decides to show up (from nowhere cause i had killed all the low level ones around to be safe) ofc since they are couple it aggro me, so i decide to go out kill it with the bear and rush back in, it must have taken me over 30 seconds to kill it, i go back in....the giraffe had reseted to 0% tamed.

and dont get me wrong i am not saying "oh its too hard, make it easy" but considering that we are gonna wipe (probably more than once) anyway, putting time and effort into something like taming feels stupid to be honest, specially considering the only reason i even play atlas is for sailing, i believe the developers should be more consequent with the fact that we are in EA and wipes will come.

Ps: I played 3 ranked matches in lol and finally after like a week of playing Atlas and BDO i had some fun, seems like fun is the new rare resource in the gaming industry

 

Ah man. I got pisses off for you after I read that story. Yeah I would definitely be in a bad mood as well.

taming can definitely be a pain sometimes. I was always putting up some kind of defenses while I was taming on ark. Even put up auto turrets one time because we were taming a 150 giga and I wasn’t going to take any chances on losing any levels.

of course people shouldn’t be forced but I don’t see them as being forced. If there wasn’t a skill tree for hand harvesting I would understand, but they do have it so I don’t see it as forced.

they shouldn’t be able to get just as much resources as a tame though. That just shouldn’t happen. They have the choice to use them or not.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Badkebab said:

If only the rest of us could see what this company is good at.

I own three copies of atlas so I have done my bit in terms of financially supporting atlas. But having seen the course of development and where the focus of development has been I most certainly won't be purchasing other products from these developers. If you love them, their work and think they have done a bang up job then I respect your opinion. I hold a very different view and I will not be opening my wallet for them the future.

Oh I didn’t say I loved them or their decisions. I just said they know what they are good at and making tames is one thing they are actually really good at.

edit: why do you have 3 copies?

Edited by Realist

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38 minutes ago, Realist said:

That is why they have the hand harvesting skill. But no, hand harvesting should not be just as efficient as tames. That really doesn’t make sense because then tames wouldn’t be important. People have the option to harvest by hand or with a tame. They can choose the less efficient if they want but it will remain less efficient.

that is the fantasy of atlas. Everyone says fantasy, well I say taming a bear and riding it is fantasy. There we go taming is the fantasy aspect of atlas.

if the Megas and other companies want to alliance up and not be pirates that is on them, not the company. For all of the stuff about the game not being pirate enough, the blame falls on the players for that part. It’s their fault for becoming Megas. It their fault for joining an alliance.

this company has messed up a lot with things like the claim system and vitamin system and so forth, but in the end the players killed the pirates.

You haven't presented a valid reason for why hand harvesting should not be just as efficient as tames. Would tames suddenly not be important to people who prefer them if hand harvesting were equally as useful? There is an inherent assumption in your premise that one option needs to be more or less efficient than the other. I see no reason why this needs to be the case.

Your argument seems to be that if I like Fords and you like Chevys, that we can't allow Fords to go as fast as Chevys because then the Chevy wouldn't be important.  It's not fair to say that my preference needs to be functionally the best option and other people's shouldn't be as good, so I hope I'm misunderstanding the thrust of your argument here. My argument is that there's no reason Fords and Chevys can't both go just as fast and people can drive whichever car they prefer. This is giving people equivalent options in gaming which is generally regarded as good game design and is widely used in other games. There are many games where players are presented options which are functionally equivalent but differentiated for aesthetic or thematic preference.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Enki Anunnaki said:

meh. no mans sky was a shit game for YEARS without any real content besides aimlessly exploring and spotting fucking trees and stupid creatures were the highlight of your adventure. Been a few months since i last installed it but as far as i remember they still had not implemented any viable form of PVP which is the main reason i hated it... (not counting the pre launch hype it might be a working star citizen) 

There is still hope for Atlas although its been treated like a neglected, malnourished and about to die child of ark, by the devs... I wish there was a video game CPS so this child can live a long fulfilling life instead of being broken, abused and left to rot in some dusty bargen bin. 

Atleast theyre doing Q&A again so we have an idea on whether life support is even possible.

Someone do something! SAVE THIS CHILD!

*beep*... *beep*......*beep*.................*beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep*...............................................................................................................................................

I have a question:

What about any of the information you reviewed prior to your purchase of No Man's Sky ever gave you the impression it would have viable pvp or that this would be the game's focus? I recall it being pitched primarily as a game about exploration, crafting and trading. If you buy that game expecting pvp when it isn't really advertised and then don't like what it does offer, is that really on the game and it's developers or you? I don't buy first person shooters because they aren't what I'm looking for in a game, and I know that before I buy. I wouldn't buy Call of Duty and complain that the crafting is crap.

Also your post makes it apparent you either didn't actually read what I wrote, or missed the point of it. It wasn't really about what No Man's Sky is or isn't content wise.

Edited by boomervoncannon

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

You haven't presented a valid reason for why hand harvesting should not be just as efficient as tames. Would tames suddenly not be important to people who prefer them if hand harvesting were equally as useful? There is an inherent assumption in your premise that one option needs to be more or less efficient than the other. I see no reason why this needs to be the case.

Your argument seems to be that if I like Fords and you like Chevys, that we can't allow Fords to go as fast as Chevys because then the Chevy wouldn't be important.  It's not fair to say that my preference needs to be functionally the best option and other people's shouldn't be as good, so I hope I'm misunderstanding the thrust of your argument here. My argument is that there's no reason Fords and Chevys can't both go just as fast and people can drive whichever car they prefer. This is giving people equivalent options in gaming which is generally regarded as good game design and is widely used in other games. There are many games where players are presented options which are functionally equivalent but differentiated for aesthetic or thematic preference.

How was that not a valid reason?

and I can tell you that personally even though I LOVE tames and you know I do, if I could harvest just as efficiently as tames I myself would not go through the hassle of taming. More efficient gathering is the reward for taking the extra time to get a better “tool” so to speak. 

If the “tool” isn’t better then it isn’t worth the time to obtain it. That is a perfectly valid reason.

 

Edited by Realist

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Realist said:

How was that not a valid reason?

and I can tell you that personally even though I LOVE tames and you know I do, if I could harvest just as efficiently as tames I myself would not go through the hassle of taming. More efficient gathering is the reward for taking the extra time to get a better “tool” so to speak. 

If the “tool” isn’t better then it isn’t worth the time to obtain it. That is a perfectly valid reason.

 

Both tames and hand harvesting require an investment of skill points to obtain. The tame requires investment of time and resources to acquire. Better tools require investment of time and resources to acquire because one must first do maps to obtain blueprints, then acquire the mats needed to craft the tools. Default level tools don't require any special effort but they also don't get you as high of a yield. Tames are still useful because while tames can be just as efficient as hand harvesting, the tame will still have greater carry weight. For fiber, which weighs very little, this might not matter much. For just about anything else you'd use a tame to harvest with, it will very quickly, so the time and effort invested in taming is still worth it, it just isn't realized in pure harvesting efficiency.

You should be perfectly familiar with this idea from Ark. I can boost my melee stat and get a high quality pick, but no matter how much I boost my carry weight too, I'll never be able to carry as much metal as the anky. Taming an anky is still useful.

Edited by boomervoncannon

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2 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Both tames and hand harvesting require an investment of skill points to obtain. The tame requires investment of time and resources to acquire. Better tools require investment of time and resources to acquire because one must first do maps to obtain blueprints, then acquire the mats needed to craft the tools. Default level tools don't require any special effort but they also don't get you as high of a yield. Tames are still useful because while tools can be just as efficient as hand harvesting, the tame will still have greater carry weight. For fiber, which ways very little, this might not matter much. For just about anything else you'd use a tame to harvest with, it will very quickly, so the time and effort invested in taming is still worth it, it just isn't realized in pure harvesting efficiency.

You should be perfectly familiar with this idea from Ark. I can boost my melee stat and get a high quality pick, but no matter how much I boost my carry weight too, I'll never be able to carry as much metal as the anky. Taming an anky is still useful.

Even with a high quality pick you could never get metal like an anky can(in ark at least) which is how it should be. 

It would definitely water down the importance of tames and I know that is what you want, which is fine. I however do not want that so we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

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1 minute ago, Realist said:

Even with a high quality pick you could never get metal like an anky can(in ark at least) which is how it should be. 

It would definitely water down the importance of tames and I know that is what you want, which is fine. I however do not want that so we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I'm perfectly happy saying tames shouldn't be more efficient at gathering resources, but the time and resources invested in acquiring them can be rewarded through significantly improved carry weight alone, yes. That is a not insignificant advantage and if you perceive putting tool gathering on par with tames in terms of gather rate when tames retain the carry weight advantage as being unacceptable then yes we disagree, but again, I'm the one with practical game experience in this particular game and you aren't. I know you tire of hearing it but when you argue about things that are highly tied to actual play experience, it's very relevant.

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1 hour ago, Realist said:

edit: why do you have 3 copies?

One account to build on an island and manage tames, own an island.

 

One to produce untraceable weapons and equipment

 

One to go forth and wreak havoc on sea and land without someone being able to locate where the attacks are originating from or through the rather silly ability to change company names at will to take the name of a large company and attacking another large company so they attack each other instead of me.

though now its all academic since I no longer play atlas

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5 hours ago, Badkebab said:

One account to build on an island and manage tames, own an island.

 

One to produce untraceable weapons and equipment

 

One to go forth and wreak havoc on sea and land without someone being able to locate where the attacks are originating from or through the rather silly ability to change company names at will to take the name of a large company and attacking another large company so they attack each other instead of me.

though now its all academic since I no longer play atlas

Let it never be said that Atlas failed due to lack of financial support from Bad Daddy K.

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9 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

I'm perfectly happy saying tames shouldn't be more efficient at gathering resources, but the time and resources invested in acquiring them can be rewarded through significantly improved carry weight alone, yes. That is a not insignificant advantage and if you perceive putting tool gathering on par with tames in terms of gather rate when tames retain the carry weight advantage as being unacceptable then yes we disagree, but again, I'm the one with practical game experience in this particular game and you aren't. I know you tire of hearing it but when you argue about things that are highly tied to actual play experience, it's very relevant.

I gotta tell you though boomer, even if I was playing the game I would still have the same opinion. I try to stay out of topics that are directly linked to gameplay but there is another aspect. When it comes to opinion and not facts I will always give it. 

That is the one circumstance that regardless of playing experience, I won’t change my opinion. Take the claim system for example. Once the console release happens I know for a fact that I will not like it. Once I am playing the game I will come back here like I have always and give my opinion of distaste for the claim system. 

I wont have some epiphany to where I end up liking it. I don’t need to play the game to l ow what I dislike.

sure I get tired of it, I also realize it won’t stop until console release. I am more concerned about the people that tell me that and that is the only thing they can say to me lol

i like debating with you but it is slim pickings for a good conversation here lol

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Realist said:

 

That is the one circumstance that regardless of playing experience, I won’t change my opinion. Take the claim system for example. Once the console release happens I know for a fact that I will not like it. Once I am playing the game I will come back here like I have always and give my opinion of distaste for the claim system.  

I wont have some epiphany to where I end up liking it. I don’t need to play the game to l ow what I dislike.

 

You're not going to dislike the system. People don't do the shit they do on Ark. You don't get "taxed" most land owners welcome settlers because it makes the island cheaper to maintain, they don't have to farm as much; and the usually will help you out. The culture of these two games is completely different man.


There's no pillar spam.

Edited by PeglegTheAngry

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23 minutes ago, Realist said:

i like debating with you but it is slim pickings for a good conversation here lol

eh, I'm good. NFL training camps are underway so things are picking up over on the message board I post to for the Panthers. I can scratch my posting itch over there some. I kind of ignore them mostly in the offseason except right before and after the draft. If you think gamers are irrationally excitable, wait til you look at six pages of people freaking out cause a bunch of guys who won't be on the team in a month looked bad against Buffalo's scrubs in a meaningless preseason game.

Some chucklehead: WTF Grier looked like @$$ against the Bills 3rd stringers!!!!  The GM should be fired and whoever replaces him better start looking for a backup qb for Cam or we're screwed!

Me: Grier is a rookie QB drafted in the 3rd round who no one expects to have to win games this season at all. In the NFL if your starting QB goes down for more than a couple games, you're not going to the playoffs anyway. Settle down, it doesn't matter how good Grier looks on the field for another 2 years at least. That's when Cam's current contract expires and he'll be 32.

Chucklehead: @#$% you man, I had a hundred bucks riding on that game!

Me: You bet on a preseason game? I think we're done here.

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I'd like to see a progression from common hand tools, to tames, with very high quality hand tools being better than tames. Kind of an early to mid to late game thing. I think having a progression is important. Someone could also pick the option of skipping the mid game harvesting with tames and grind out the materials by hand and go find those good patterns. For sure, I don't think hand harvesting and tames should every be equal. One or the other should be better, and whichever is better should take more time to obtain.

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5 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

I'd like to see a progression from common hand tools, to tames, with very high quality hand tools being better than tames. Kind of an early to mid to late game thing. I think having a progression is important. Someone could also pick the option of skipping the mid game harvesting with tames and grind out the materials by hand and go find those good patterns. For sure, I don't think hand harvesting and tames should every be equal. One or the other should be better, and whichever is better should take more time to obtain.

The problem with this is the many people who came to play Atlas for the pirate theme and sailing, and dislike tames. I personally can take or leaves tames, but enough people have voiced their distastes for feeling forced to use them, that I think harvesting with tools should be just as efficient as tames, while leaving tames the advantage of greater carry weight to reward the time invested into taming them. Otherwise I like your idea in part because I think it likely takes more investment of time and resources to craft higher level tools than to tame just about any of the harvesting tames. It's an interesting idea and approach at the least.

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1 hour ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

You're not going to dislike the system. People don't do the shit they do on Ark. You don't get "taxed" most land owners welcome settlers because it makes the island cheaper to maintain, they don't have to farm as much; and the usually will help you out. The culture of these two games is completely different man.


There's no pillar spam.

I actually like pillar spam. It means I can build where I want to. I never had a problem with build anywhere with ark. I guess pve might have a problem with it but pvp? Nah, I’ll just blow it up if I want to build there.

bothing wrong with pve by the way, I have never had anything negative to say about pve people. I am just different. The claim system for pvp is very stupid. Bottom line

35 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

eh, I'm good. NFL training camps are underway so things are picking up over on the message board I post to for the Panthers. I can scratch my posting itch over there some. I kind of ignore them mostly in the offseason except right before and after the draft. If you think gamers are irrationally excitable, wait til you look at six pages of people freaking out cause a bunch of guys who won't be on the team in a month looked bad against Buffalo's scrubs in a meaningless preseason game.

Some chucklehead: WTF Grier looked like @$$ against the Bills 3rd stringers!!!!  The GM should be fired and whoever replaces him better start looking for a backup qb for Cam or we're screwed!

Me: Grier is a rookie QB drafted in the 3rd round who no one expects to have to win games this season at all. In the NFL if your starting QB goes down for more than a couple games, you're not going to the playoffs anyway. Settle down, it doesn't matter how good Grier looks on the field for another 2 years at least. That's when Cam's current contract expires and he'll be 32.

Chucklehead: @#$% you man, I had a hundred bucks riding on that game!

Me: You bet on a preseason game? I think we're done here.

Holy crap. Ok, this forum isn’t that bad. Smh. I do fantasy football and all but 100 bucks on pre season? Time to go to some meetings lol

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50 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

I'd like to see a progression from common hand tools, to tames, with very high quality hand tools being better than tames. Kind of an early to mid to late game thing. I think having a progression is important. Someone could also pick the option of skipping the mid game harvesting with tames and grind out the materials by hand and go find those good patterns. For sure, I don't think hand harvesting and tames should every be equal. One or the other should be better, and whichever is better should take more time to obtain.

Wow. Even better than tames? That would make the months the whole team spent on making those tames irrelevant lol. It takes. A good amount of time to design and implement a tame. Even one. That is complex content.

working on something that is already existing such as the claim system, it would be very easy to just delete that crap.

too much time has already been spent on tames so even if they wanted to, that just won’t happen. Too much time has been invested already. No turning back now.

except the claim system. That is a very easy erase that hopefully happens soon.

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It doesn't take that long to breed a pretty good all-around tame. It only takes months if you're looking to squeeze out every little point you can.

 

The one thing that I think is a must is some form of progression. Whatever is best should take longer to get.

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lets take a look at harvesting tames then:

These are what I use, not saying these are the best but they are what i find get the most mats / time on the island i play.

Fibre: - Bear

Thatch: - pick and giraffe about the same but is beaten by bear on ground thatch. (no ground thatch on my current island so giraffe is best)

Wood: - elephant, only for it's reduced carry weight. Cart bear and axe if you didn't use stam food on the elephant. (Ele is slow and has realy bad stamina)

Flint: - pick and cart bear.

Stone: - Rhino or axe with cart bear are about the same, (some say Rhino is better), I use whichever tame is available at the time.

Metal: - Pick and cart bear

Other: I have a bull for Bamboo and Darkwood.

 

These are what I use in game.

As you can see it's mostly about weight and carrying the mats back to base.

If I wanted to play thematic pirates, a horse and cart would not put me too far behind the curve.

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3 hours ago, Jack Shandy said:

lets take a look at harvesting tames then:

These are what I use, not saying these are the best but they are what i find get the most mats / time on the island i play.

Fibre: - Bear

Thatch: - pick and giraffe about the same but is beaten by bear on ground thatch. (no ground thatch on my current island so giraffe is best)

Wood: - elephant, only for it's reduced carry weight. Cart bear and axe if you didn't use stam food on the elephant. (Ele is slow and has realy bad stamina)

Flint: - pick and cart bear.

Stone: - Rhino or axe with cart bear are about the same, (some say Rhino is better), I use whichever tame is available at the time.

Metal: - Pick and cart bear

Other: I have a bull for Bamboo and Darkwood.

 

These are what I use in game.

As you can see it's mostly about weight and carrying the mats back to base.

If I wanted to play thematic pirates, a horse and cart would not put me too far behind the curve.

“Thematic pirates” sounds like the name of a cover band at the Renaissance festival that can’t do a decent Freebird but tears up The Bear and the Maiden Fair like nobodies business.

Beyond that, it’s disappointing given how important of a mat that it is, that the designated tame to harvest metal, a rhino, sucks at it so bad that we don’t even use it for that. In pvp where sturdy walls are imperative, I can see how they have at least some value gathering stone, but in pve where building in stone is mostly an aesthetic choice and you’re not needing to rebuild after raids, the demand for stone is far less and rhinos are of little use currently.

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23 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

it’s disappointing given how important of a mat that it is, that the designated tame to harvest metal, a rhino, sucks at it so bad that we don’t even use it for that. In pvp where sturdy walls are imperative, I can see how they have at least some value gathering stone, but in pve where building in stone is mostly an aesthetic choice and you’re not needing to rebuild after raids, the demand for stone is far less and rhinos are of little use currently.

Rhino's are unwealdy beasts and a weight capacity similar to a bear. ease of movement and 3x capacity with a cart can outweigh "not" hitting rocks with a axe.

 

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Imo, once you have the double harvesting skill, all the handharvesting skills, the 250% encumbered speed skill and high damage legendary or mythic tools, during those ten minutes you'll beat any animal at their thing except bears. Now we rarely use an animal to gather mats if its not fiber.

 

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