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Daemon Cross

People left the game ?

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Posted (edited)

Forums used to be the best way to communicate, the majority of older players has always used them and developers could interact better because they were able to read through post and give replies that covered most topics.  Jat and Dollie are more then likely of the younger generation that are used to interacting with people in a environment that is constantly moving.  The issue is that us older people who are not always online can’t participate in discord or Twitter because they are almost considered live-streams and constantly moving with people using it like text messages.  Here we can post our thoughts and cover complete issues where we would have to do it in much smaller scale using the others.

   Also they seem to cover more pvp content because for now that is their focus, in time hopefully they get back on the pve side and work with it some more. 

Edited by Daemon Cross

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Re. Forums vs. discord and Twitter - Sometimes people get excited over newer technology to the point where they aren't thinking about how well it suits the purpose.  I have to laugh at the evolution of twitter.  140 chars, then 280 chars, and people trying to use that to communicate complicated, nuanced things.  So now there's string tweets, where someone will make long multiple 1/6, 2/6, 3/6 tweets that don't read coherently afterward, have a lot of repetition.  (Unless you use a special tool to reformat the thing).  It's like deciding to build a table using only tweezers.  Just the wrong tool for it.

Discord for something like this is kind of silly.  It's fine for just making sure you have a "presence"...a "hi, how's everybody doing? kind of thing.  But transmitting critical information through it is sort of insulting to the players.    It's saying I am so much busier and more important than you, that you should just go to this place and wait to see if I show up to tell you anything.  And using a time-dependent medium to communicate with people around the world in all timezones?  Pffft.  Not the right tool.

 

Livestreams and videos - don't get me started.   Not just for games, but in general, if there's something I want to know about, and it would take me 5 mins. to just read about it, I really do not want to have to sit through an hour of someone chatting about whatever they think will promote themselves as some sort of personality.    Oh sure, it's fine for "color" and promotion, and that sort of thing, but for critical announcements, I'm glad that for Atlas, the devs follow that up with a Captain's Log for those of us not interested in the circus.   I tried to do a quick search the other day on a certain painting technique, and all the hits were videos.

HI, I'm Susan and this is my cat, Muffins,  Say Hi, Muffins!  Today we are going to talk about priming wood trim.  Oh and here's my friend Julie. 

Julie is my best friend.  She doesn't know how to prime wood trim either.  Hi, Julie!

FFS, I just want to know what kind of primer you're using!  It would take 2 seconds.  Show the can.  SHOW THE CAN!  ~Sound of head hitting desk~

 

Well, I'm glad I got that off my chest.  Sounds like a certified old person, doesn't it?  Oh, and..

Get off my lawn!

 

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If this is going down the route of landlord owning the island and dictating what you can and can't do with demolishing at any given notice then they want to be very very careful as there is a saying "don't bite the hand that feeds you" 

They will soon realise that they have upset most of the island and will turn on him/her and be left with nothing themselves. I don't like the sound of this system though, it's sounding more and more like pvp but I can see that happening.

I left the game early on because of the claim system, I will do the same again if it turns out how people are describing with landords turfing you out.

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14 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

I left the game early on because of the claim system, I will do the same again if it turns out how people are describing with landords turfing you out.

I stuck round but will likely leave as well assuming they go ahead with these changes. 

Plan is to play semi solo so I'll have too abuse the new system by getting bunch of NA/EU pvp friends to join my company come wipe day so I can get a bunch of these 'points'. Then claim a decent size island in a nice grid. If that fails, back to Ark I guess. Possibly check back in a few months to see if the Devs finally came to their sense or allowed the game vanish into obscurity.

Game was at 40k+ players in December, its roughly 3k now? Be interesting to see how many players come back and stick with it....

 

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Posted (edited)

With ongoing wipes and not being able to own your land and the need to always be online to keep anything from decaying or being demolished. You’ll have a handful of people that remain, you’ll see numbers about like they are now, people will come in and give it ago then get pissed off because they still have to live on someone else’s land,  have a upkeep to maintain and still deal with always having to be online. Then the numerous of other issues the game had before the wipe was even mentioned. They will leave and say the same thing, “I’ll try it again in a few months or I’ll wait till it comes out of EA”

   This is going to be a continued occurrence because there is to many issues that most people won’t deal with for very long. I myself have the patience to deal with most things but I don’t have the patience to deal with pvp. Just not my cup of tea.

Edited by Daemon Cross

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, LoneXS said:

Plan is to play semi solo so I'll have too abuse the new system by getting bunch of NA/EU pvp friends to join my company come wipe day so I can get a bunch of these 'points'. Then claim a decent size island in a nice grid.

A good example of what can/will go wrong with the system.

I hope the upkeep means you are never able to sail again 🙂

Edited by MisterMyztik
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6 hours ago, MisterMyztik said:

A good example of what can/will go wrong with the system.

I hope the upkeep means you are never able to sail again 🙂

He said he will not sail again when it will not work out for him!

AND you hope that a sandbox (whatever) MMO will become an upkeep simulator? How far you have to stretch to justify such a system?

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Upkeep simulator, if you try to keep an island for yourself, I hope that is what it will be.

P.S. They said from the start they wanted landlords and tenants. So stop crying over not getting land, and become part of a community.

Either be a landlord / admin with all the hassle / benefits that comes with it, or a tenant and pay some tax for someone else to administer the island.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, MisterMyztik said:

A good example of what can/will go wrong with the system.

I hope the upkeep means you are never able to sail again 🙂

Lol tbh I barely had to sail much previously, only really travelled round to help people or spend a day doing maps. 

I'd be lieing if I said I would be happy if the upkeep costs are really cheap. If I'm able to get a large island and I can maintain the upkeep it'll show how flawed this system is.

The big question what will you do? you had grabbing claims down to an art form 😞

1 hour ago, Kummba said:

He said he will not sail again when it will not work out for him!

AND you hope that a sandbox (whatever) MMO will become an upkeep simulator? How far you have to stretch to justify such a system?

Your probably right I'll fail but outside of trying this, there's not much that appeals to me as a solo player. And before you say 'this is a MMO, join a company or GTFO out' feel free too suck my nuts.

Also MisterMyztik isn't justifying the new system, hes just point out the biggest issue I'm likely to encounter if its even possible. Upkeep is the biggest downside.

Edited by LoneXS

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7 hours ago, MisterMyztik said:

A good example of what can/will go wrong with the system.

I hope the upkeep means you are never able to sail again 🙂

Myztik knows what's up 😄

How do you feel about high end PvE content early on? I'm LFM that have the will/ability to hold their own for the new content.

5 minutes ago, LoneXS said:

Lol tbh I barely had to sail much previously, only really travelled round to help people or spend a day doing maps. 

I'd be lieing if I said I would be happy if the upkeep costs are really cheap. If I'm able to get a large island and I can maintain the upkeep it'll show how flawed this system is.

The big question what will you do? you had grabbing claims down to an art form 😞

You probably right I'll fail but outside of trying this, there's not much that appeals to me as a solo player. And before you say 'this is a MMO, join a company or GTFO out' feel free too suck my nuts.

Also MisterMyztik isn't justifying the new system, hes just point out the biggest issue I'm likely to encounter if its even possible. Upkeep is the biggest downside.

What about the game does appeal to you then?

 

The new system removes a lot of griefing potential IMO. It will improve the game more than it hurts it which means it's a good thing.

 

~Lotus

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10 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

Upkeep simulator, if you try to keep an island for yourself, I hope that is what it will be.

P.S. They said from the start they wanted landlords and tenants. So stop crying over not getting land, and become part of a community.

Either be a landlord / admin with all the hassle / benefits that comes with it, or a tenant and pay some tax for someone else to administer the island.

 

I dont cry, i just point out issues.

I dont have to own land, what i need is a mainbase that is save from the start, and save for a known time (> 4 days) to store my progress (resources bps gear etc).

Also i would like to have land to build outposts on (this can be lawless easy, no <4 days required).

The new system will provide that, except for the "save from the start" (for the main base, only for claimer), this is my main concern.

 

The Problem atm is, we dont really know anything about anything other then how a claim differ from PVP potentially. AND we will not get told befor PTR (see tweet).

 

WHY u think someone has to do the hassle of an admin as a claimer?

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1 minute ago, Lotus said:

What about the game does appeal to you then?

 

The new system removes a lot of griefing potential IMO. It will improve the game more than it hurts it which means it's a good thing.

Being a pirate? I know shocking right, in a pirate game of all things...

I came over from Ark to join some friends and then found out they had all given up out of boredom. Then I was about to migrate to NA and join some cool guys there but there was always the chance my old buddies would return so stuck it out on EU.

So focused on getting land and amassing wealth. Turns out that's all kinds of fun. You have to do some pretty shady stuff to get land and goodies from other players, you know be a pirate in a pirate game... And I'm not gonna lie, that feeling of getting my own land after 2 weeks of hard work... Best feeling I've had in this game. 

The new system kinda renders a big part of that obsolete. I have no plans on living under someones thumb.

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You could do something like, I don't know, talk to the landowner for all your outposts, they might welcome the tax revenue.

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10 minutes ago, LoneXS said:

Being a pirate? I know shocking right, in a pirate game of all things...

I came over from Ark to join some friends and then found out they had all given up out of boredom. Then I was about to migrate to NA and join some cool guys there but there was always the chance my old buddies would return so stuck it out on EU.

So focused on getting land and amassing wealth. Turns out that's all kinds of fun. You have to do some pretty shady stuff to get land and goodies from other players, you know be a pirate in a pirate game... And I'm not gonna lie, that feeling of getting my own land after 2 weeks of hard work... Best feeling I've had in this game. 

The new system kinda renders a big part of that obsolete. I have no plans on living under someones thumb.

This is a PvE thread. To get land you wait for upkeep to expire and then drop a flag. If you are unsure you are going to get it you stay in the flag until theirs declaims and yours claims. I don't quite know what you mean about getting goodies from other players, only thing I can think of would be if they sink their ship you can take it or if they are lawless and you demo their stuff. For nonlegit things you can basically take everything from somebody we won't talk about that though cause it's bannable 😄 The new PvP system has a lot of interest from a lot of people I know.

For living under somebody's thumb I don't quite understand what you mean.

16 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

You could do something like, I don't know, talk to the landowner for all your outposts, they might welcome the tax revenue.

This guy knows what's up.

People would come to F11 and be like hey is there a place I can build. I would ask what they wanted to build. They would say _____ for _____. I would say for something like that I have spots here, here, and here show them the spots. Explain the rules to them (Don't build on resources and don't be toxic). It worked out great IMO. If we were doing something the people living on the land were invited to come too. It would build bonds and created experiences.

 

~Lotus

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Lotus said:

 

People would come to F11 and be like hey is there a place I can build. I would ask what they wanted to build. They would say _____ for _____. I would say for something like that I have spots here, here, and here show them the spots. Explain the rules to them (Don't build on resources and don't be toxic). It worked out great IMO. If we were doing something the people living on the land were invited to come too. It would build bonds and created experiences.

 

~Lotus

What will you do if I come and build without talking to you as landlord? Because that is the system how it works now? I can build at any moment and at any place. You gonna demolish me then and then start talking where I can build? And what will you do if the do not speak English?...

Edited by awakatanka

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50 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

You could do something like, I don't know, talk to the landowner for all your outposts, they might welcome the tax revenue.

I guess that was for me.

I did not say i am not willing to do that, if it is needed. I did that allready in the current system.  I can live with taxes, i just dont prever to do so.

BUT you get a reply in <2% of the cases when asking in chat / voice. Eighter people are not online or not responding for other reasons. As i play on EU PVE, there are also way more language barrier then on the NA server.

My main concern is still that after i have setup an mainbase / outpost, i have to wait for x hours befor i will start using it. Other people may feel save after negotiation with the landowner tho.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Lotus said:

This guy knows what's up.

I'm not entirely sure why you think he know 'whats up' I mean sweet Jebus how old is that expression?

No one really knows whats up until we get a PTR

Also your assumption that people will enter a grid and ask to build on an island is woefully naive. 90% of players will likely find an island, drop their anchor and build. Thats the whole reason people got upset about losing claims in the first place. And yes the Island owner can prevent it within in 12 hours but why would you when that person will be providing tax. Its basically the same system we have now in that whole islands will be controlled by 10% of the community but instead of having to manage several flags, they just have to manage one per island. And yes there will be upkeep.

Thank you for explaining how claims work, that always confused me... /sarcasm off

My first claim had a sleeper on it camped out in a 4 x 4 hut- was still learning about claims at this stage but Mistermyztik was really helpful in breaking down mechanics. I spent 9 hours over 2 days manually entering pin codes into his door while watching Netflix to try get access to him. Finally got in and spent a day trying to figure out how to get something into house to kill this one lone sleeper. Elephant AOE ftw. Got up at 3am and got it done much to the upset of the alpha company that wanted his land to completely own the whole island.

Two weeks later I came across 5 claims clustered on base that was up soon. It was going to be contested by just NPCs they had on their boats. So I waited out the timers - 6 days from when I found it. I had to spend two hours jumping from various angles from a rock with a wing suit onto their boats to claim all their NPC crew members. 8 crew members later and 3 x 4 hour timers for their main flags I own their entire base. It had 110k gold, tonnes of resources and BP's.

All within in the rules though you could argue a little unethical.

Edited by LoneXS
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3 minutes ago, awakatanka said:

What will you do if I come and build without talking to you as landlord? Because that is the system how it works now? I can build at any moment and at any place. You gonna demolish me then and then start talking where I can build? And what will you do if the do not speak English?...

I'll talk to you. As long as you arn't building on top of the harder to get resources I won't demo your stuff. If you don't speak English I have a lot of bi-lingual people mainly @Larsque cause she speaks like 5 languages fluently.

The way it works currently though I have flags set to Allies and Company in most places.

~Lotus

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The thing was with the old system, you could change your claims to public build rights, I could begin building and then you could stop public building and all the work I had done would be pointless.  If you as a landowner state that I can have one structure and no more then you could limit me to what I wanted to build, as you stated “ play by the rules and you can live here”

  that’s why the old system failed and that’s why the new system will fail, no one wants to live by someone else’s rules. 

  The new system is setup for people to own an island but requires mats to keep ownership, the developers are hoping that this will encourage land owners to allow building on their island and the resources gathered on that island will be taxed and admitted to the upkeep box. That is the new system, if a small company of 5 wanted to maintain the upkeep for a island then they could so and not allow anyone else to build there. Again that is similar to the old system you just described.

  People are worried about others blocking in resources or building over resources, I’m sorry but it’s hard pressed to find an area without some type of resources that you are going to build on.  Whether it be stone, salt, fiber, wood or thatch your structures are going to cover something. So what makes it fair for the landowners to build over resources but not the tenants?

   A lot of you keep saying that I’ll just remain in lawless and deal with a four day timer,  I’d love to be able to say that I will do that as well but the fact is, if I can’t take a family vacation and be gone from the game for a week then there isn’t much point in continuing to play and that’s going to go towards a lot of players who have no desire to join someone else’s company.

I have no desire to be part of a company where a new recruit and jump on my ships and go sink them. There is nothing in the game that prevents this unless you set admin rights and prevent people from using certain things, if I’m the recruit I can’t set admin rights on a ship I build while in another company.

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10 minutes ago, LoneXS said:

I'm not entirely sure why you think he know 'whats up' I mean sweet Jebus how old is that expression?

No one really knows whats up until we get a PTR

Also your assumption that people will enter a grid and ask to build on an island is woefully naive. 90% of players will likely find an island, drop their anchor and build. Thats the whole reason people got upset about losing claims in the first place. And yes the Island owner can prevent it within in 12 hours but why would you when that person will be providing tax. Its basically the same system we have now in that whole islands will be controlled by 10% of the community but instead of having to manage several flags, they just have to manage one per island. And yes there will be upkeep.

Thank you for explaining how claims work, that always confused me... /sarcasm off

My first claim had a sleeper on it camped out in a 4 x 4 hut- was still learning about claims at this stage but Mistermyztik was really helpful in breaking down mechanics. I spent 9 hours over 2 days manually entering pin codes into his door while watching Netflix to try get access to him. Finally got in and spent a day trying to figure out how to get something into house to kill this one lone sleeper. Elephant AOE ftw. Got up at 3am and got it done much to the upset of the alpha company that wanted his land to completely own the whole island.

Two weeks later I came across 5 claims clustered on base that was up soon. It was going to be contested by just NPCs they had on their boats. So I waited out the timers - 6 days from when I found it. I had to spend two hours jumping from various angles from a rock with a wing suit onto their boats to claim all their NPC crew members. 8 crew members later and 3 x 4 hour timers for their main flags I own their entire base. It had 110k gold, tonnes of resources and BP's.

All withing in the rules though you could argue a little unethical.

He knows what is up because he will talk before building.

It was also stated it's 12 hours on PvP longer on PvE (I would guess 72 hours). The reason they should talk is because it is proper etiquette. Showing up to an island without announcing your intentions is rude, this includes taming, maps, farming, RP party 😄. I believe they are going to convert it to the allow company ID to build on the island with the removal of alliances. I put it in my suggestion post XD

 

~Lotus

 

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4 minutes ago, Lotus said:

I believe they are going to convert it to the allow company ID to build on the island with the removal of alliances. I put it in my suggestion post XD

THB, u try and try to make the system even more complicated and restrictive just to justify it. It would be great tho, if a landowner can whitelist build parts, so he/they  give up his demolishing right (12-xx hours) for them.

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5 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

The thing was with the old system, you could change your claims to public build rights, I could begin building and then you could stop public building and all the work I had done would be pointless.  If you as a landowner state that I can have one structure and no more then you could limit me to what I wanted to build, as you stated “ play by the rules and you can live here”

  that’s why the old system failed and that’s why the new system will fail, no one wants to live by someone else’s rules. 

  The new system is setup for people to own an island but requires mats to keep ownership, the developers are hoping that this will encourage land owners to allow building on their island and the resources gathered on that island will be taxed and admitted to the upkeep box. That is the new system, if a small company of 5 wanted to maintain the upkeep for a island then they could so and not allow anyone else to build there. Again that is similar to the old system you just described.

  People are worried about others blocking in resources or building over resources, I’m sorry but it’s hard pressed to find an area without some type of resources that you are going to build on.  Whether it be stone, salt, fiber, wood or thatch your structures are going to cover something. So what makes it fair for the landowners to build over resources but not the tenants?

   A lot of you keep saying that I’ll just remain in lawless and deal with a four day timer,  I’d love to be able to say that I will do that as well but the fact is, if I can’t take a family vacation and be gone from the game for a week then there isn’t much point in continuing to play and that’s going to go towards a lot of players who have no desire to join someone else’s company.

I have no desire to be part of a company where a new recruit and jump on my ships and go sink them. There is nothing in the game that prevents this unless you set admin rights and prevent people from using certain things, if I’m the recruit I can’t set admin rights on a ship I build while in another company.

The most landowners are happy to have people live on their islands. The thing is with the current state of the game I am going to say 50% of islands won't be claimed in the first month. Living on somebody's land will be more of a you can take that vacation. Wood/Fiber/Thatch/Stone/Flint is not something most landlords would care bout. I say most because I knew a guy that had all the wood on his island built on it made me laugh. If you build on metal though I would be more than a little upset.

Lawless is going to have a damaging decay if I read it correctly. This means every few days you need to take resources and go to every piece of structure and hit "E" or whatever the hotkey to repair a structure is.

As for the recruit thing. Lotus has 5 levels of access. The patch will increase it to 10. You don't need to admin lock boats (ours are rank 4 and 5 for fleet and most the personals are rank 2 and 3). It was really rough setting all that up but eventually we did and it was worth it to have a layer of protection. A group that just admin locks is lazy imo... then again I had it that way though for a little while but I was lazy... but we won't get into that 😄. If a new recruit did sink your boats I would make sure they are replaced anyway. I guess most companies don't do that though 😕

 

~Lotus

9 minutes ago, Kummba said:

THB, u try and try to make the system even more complicated and restrictive just to justify it. It would be great tho, if a landowner can whitelist build parts, so he/they  give up his demolishing right (12-xx hours) for them.

We wouldn't need restrictions if everybody could just play nice 😞

~Lotus

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Posted (edited)

How did you set up different levels of access ? I’m not sure I’ve seen the options.  

  On top of that if I was to join a company and that company becomes toxic and I wanted to leave then everything I had built in that company is lost.  I can give more reasons not to join a company then I can to join one. It would be different if your belongings stayed associated with your account ID like it is in most games, that way when I left anything associated with that ID left with me.

 

Edited by Daemon Cross
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1 hour ago, Lotus said:

He knows what is up because he will talk before building.

It was also stated it's 12 hours on PvP longer on PvE (I would guess 72 hours). The reason they should talk is because it is proper etiquette. Showing up to an island without announcing your intentions is rude, this includes taming, maps, farming, RP party 😄. I believe they are going to convert it to the allow company ID to build on the island with the removal of alliances. I put it in my suggestion post XD

 

~Lotus

 

I'm a pirate I suppose to be rude 😋

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2 hours ago, Lotus said:

He knows what is up because he will talk before building.

It was also stated it's 12 hours on PvP longer on PvE (I would guess 72 hours). The reason they should talk is because it is proper etiquette. Showing up to an island without announcing your intentions is rude, this includes taming, maps, farming, RP party 😄. I believe they are going to convert it to the allow company ID to build on the island with the removal of alliances. I put it in my suggestion post XD

 

~Lotus

 

1.  You can't base game design on the behavior of one player who starts in EA.  You just can't.  Lotus may treat everyone wonderfully, but that doesn't mean everyone else will, and it doesn't mean Lotus can police the rest of the players to make them behave well.  And the day Lotus decides to leave the game, there goes your design.

2.  I play on the NA server during off-peak hours.  Even at the beginning, I didn't see a lot of people around, and many of the ones I did see weren't English speakers.  How the hell is somebody like me supposed to have a personal interview with every landlord who owns a place I want to set up a base?  I'm not going to sit around in my boat for days waiting for someone to show up at 6AM EST to talk to me, and I'm not going to go to some great lengths to be able to log in at some time I'm normally sleeping to see if anyone is around to give me permission to build.  If this is how you think things should work, it should be supported in the game systems, and you should be putting up proposals for some sort of mandatory communications system to build on someone else's land.  They sail up to the lighthouse, select "apply" on the pinwheel, and fill in a form.  The landlord has a reply, and if they're allowed to build it highlights an area of the island they can build in.

But that wrecks the "anyone can build anywhere" plan, and we're right back to the last claims system with flags settings for permissions to build and nobody liked that.

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