Game Ballance (We're listing to Port!)

[ghrrum 5]

Right, so a friend of mine was kind enough to hook me up with a copy of this game and I've got some initial thoughts and ideas.
Firstly, the fact you can overdose on vitamins. Humans, and most animals, have a great system for dealing with extra vitamins and stuff that ain't supposed to be in there, the kidneys and liver. Every time you take a leak you're removing all the extra stuff your body can't use. If you overdo it on a vitamin, you just end up with it in the toilet, literally.
Secondly, the lateen sail and steering oars. These are some VERY basic technologies that have been extant throughout human history in smaller vessels (look at Egyptian fishing vessels from about 50 BCE onward if memory serves). Steering oars were the precursors of the rudder, your dead balls basic pram or raft can easily be steered using a board or oar as a rudder, if you don't have a daggerboard or centerboard the wind will blow you off course, but generally it's manageable (I've been sailing all manner of vessels since I was 7 or so, briefly crewed for some race boats and met a couple of guys who sailed in the olympics too, I like sailing IRL and miss it).
Overall I think the game is good-ish, but the vitamin OD thing is dumb as a bag of hammers. My gripes about the sailing system aren't really going to break the game, but I fear there is a knowledge gap between the guys that developed the game and what the real boats do and have done. 

What are your thoughts? Gripes?

[Percieval 1,067]

17 minutes ago, ghrrum said:

Right, so a friend of mine was kind enough to hook me up with a copy of this game and I've got some initial thoughts and ideas.
Firstly, the fact you can overdose on vitamins. Humans, and most animals, have a great system for dealing with extra vitamins and stuff that ain't supposed to be in there, the kidneys and liver. Every time you take a leak you're removing all the extra stuff your body can't use. If you overdo it on a vitamin, you just end up with it in the toilet, literally.
Secondly, the lateen sail and steering oars. These are some VERY basic technologies that have been extant throughout human history in smaller vessels (look at Egyptian fishing vessels from about 50 BCE onward if memory serves). Steering oars were the precursors of the rudder, your dead balls basic pram or raft can easily be steered using a board or oar as a rudder, if you don't have a daggerboard or centerboard the wind will blow you off course, but generally it's manageable (I've been sailing all manner of vessels since I was 7 or so, briefly crewed for some race boats and met a couple of guys who sailed in the olympics too, I like sailing IRL and miss it).
Overall I think the game is good-ish, but the vitamin OD thing is dumb as a bag of hammers. My gripes about the sailing system aren't really going to break the game, but I fear there is a knowledge gap between the guys that developed the game and what the real boats do and have done. 

What are your thoughts? Gripes?

Did it also happen on your vessels that when something 10 meters above the water gets broken, the ship sinks? 

It’s the most stupidest thing in this game. Plank 6meters above water broken and the ship starts filling with water. 

But to be more on topic, I don’t mind the vitamins in general since you can handle them pretty well, but the overdose is indeed stupid. 

[ghrrum 5]

In other news, why is there not a lyle gun in the game? Seeing a follower manning a 1-4 lb gun by holding the knob on the back is horrible. The history is rife with smaller naval guns that were used in this fashion (like the swivel gun), but you see those rings on the side of the cannon base? Those were tied to the deck because the amount of kinetic energy there would break the arms of the guys holding them up. Further, while cannons can be used by a single person, they are horribly slow, if you are aiming for a high rate of fire you're going to need a 2-4 man crew, which would be brilliant to add.

Watching some youtubes I've noticed the square sails move like lateen sails, which is crap. Square sails don't move like that, they are HIGHLY limited in how much they can swivel and that greatly limited the mobility of the ships. Changing the type and volume of sails on boats would be an awesome addition rather than the limited selection available. Jib sheets would also be a welcome addition for fine manuvering.

[Shintai 117]

Fast travel on a bed to avoid the OD. it resets all temporary status buffs or debuffs. Torp from snakes etc.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

I complained about vitamin OD a while back and was told by other posters claiming to have medical backgrounds that it is actually a thing. Since I’ve never had any medical training I didn’t argue but it does seem far more likely you’d almost have to try to experience a vitamin OD because of kidneys etc. 

[ghrrum 5]

3 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

I complained about vitamin OD a while back and was told by other posters claiming to have medical backgrounds that it is actually a thing. Since I’ve never had any medical training I didn’t argue but it does seem far more likely you’d almost have to try to experience a vitamin OD because of kidneys etc. 

I'd be interested to read that discussion, any chance you have a link to it?

 

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

Just now, ghrrum said:

I'd be interested to read that discussion, any chance you have a link to it?

 

Sorry but no. It was weeks ago and at the rate I post that’s buried somewhere way down in my feed.

[Fefu 43]

5 minutes ago, ghrrum said:

I'd be interested to read that discussion, any chance you have a link to it?

 

I was part of that conversation - pharmacist by profession. Most vitamins are water soluble and the body does in fact get rid of them pretty easily. It's why so many try to convince people to buy and consume mega doses of vitamins. I have seen doctors promoting 1000% RDA Vitamin C to patients. They get to make money with no real harmful side effects and the patient does not know any better.

However a few are fat soluble which leads to accumulation in the body. Vitamin A (retinol, retinoic acid) is a good example. Ingesting and accumulating high doses can result in toxicity and if not stopped also death. The condition is known as Hypervitaminosis A. Slight note to add from my other post - it is not possible to overdose ingesting Vitamin A precursors (carotenoids from vegetables).

Anyway this is a game forum so I have probably written too much. There is loads of information via Google.

[ghrrum 5]

17 minutes ago, Fefu said:

I was part of that conversation - pharmacist by profession. Most vitamins are water soluble and the body does in fact get rid of them pretty easily. It's why so many try to convince people to buy and consume mega doses of vitamins. I have seen doctors promoting 1000% RDA Vitamin C to patients. They get to make money with no real harmful side effects and the patient does not know any better.

However a few are fat soluble which leads to accumulation in the body. Vitamin A (retinol, retinoic acid) is a good example. Ingesting and accumulating high doses can result in toxicity and if not stopped also death. The condition is known as Hypervitaminosis A. Slight note to add from my other post - it is not possible to overdose ingesting Vitamin A precursors (carotenoids from vegetables).

Anyway this is a game forum so I have probably written too much. There is loads of information via Google.

So what if it's a game forum? Interesting things are interesting. I glanced at the wikipedia article on hypervitaminosis and it seems 80-90% of vitamin A is stored in the liver with the remaining 10-20% stored in fat.
Even so, to reach such an issue through diet alone seems it would take months.  I get that scurvy is a good mechanic for the game, but the OD mechanic is still unrealistic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_A

*edit: Further reading shows that acute vit. A toxicity is going to take at least 2 weeks of very high exposure levels, we're talking about a 1/2 cup or more of cod liver oil per day, every day. This is for the acute high dose version of poisoning yourself with liver oil. 
"One cod weighing 5 kilograms (about 11 pounds) renders about 8 ounces of cod liver oil." 
"Their oils contain as much as to 5000 IU vitamin A and 500 IU vitamin D per gram"
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/cod-liver-oil/cod-liver-oil-manufacturing/

8 oz is about equal to 227g, which means you're getting well in excess of the recommended daily allowance if you're eating a cod liver every day, but here's the thing, if you're going to eat a fish, you usually gut it (I know I do), and the liver is one of those things that I either use for bait or discard to the chum bucket.
Are we eating a great deal of cod in the game?

Edited February 6, 2019 by ghrrum

[Shintai 117]

Eating a polar bear liver is a way to die from A vitamin.

[Fefu 43]

Cheers. My university days are 3 decades ago so my memory of exact percentages are suspect and I admit to not having checked literature before I posted. However, I checked on the process quickly. The ester (a common form for fats) is stored in the liver so the fat soluble concept while very generic, applies.

[Jean Lafitte 451]

I claim no accurate knowledge of medicine or pharmacology. I claim extensive experience in gaming. Vitamins in this game, realistic or not, are nothing more than a pain in my royal arse and are not fun!

[ghrrum 5]

Carrying on I've also discovered that due to the number of issues with terrain, this game badly needs a /suicide, /stuck, or /die option to just kill yourself. Even if there is a 10 min cooldown on it, it would be insanely helpful. I'm currently stuck on a PvE server, I jumped onto another players boat to see what it would do, and it just has me falling there. Forever.

Relogged several times too to see if it would help, it didn't.

 

[Shintai 117]

11 minutes ago, ghrrum said:

Carrying on I've also discovered that due to the number of issues with terrain, this game badly needs a /suicide, /stuck, or /die option to just kill yourself. Even if there is a 10 min cooldown on it, it would be insanely helpful. I'm currently stuck on a PvE server, I jumped onto another players boat to see what it would do, and it just has me falling there. Forever.

Relogged several times too to see if it would help, it didn't.

 

Punching into their air is the current solution. Out of stamina and you get torpor. When reaching half torpor you start to take health damage as you keep punching.

[mrcrash 8]

good reading, and while i see your points, its not a pirate / sailing simulator.

I think the vitames OD and eating is fine, since ark was easy to get to manageable, and now its a little more work.

I love to see the ships get more details. In my mind i was wishing for the ablity to  take a mast or rudder out, ie: cripple it. 

[ghrrum 5]

Another bug that bothers me, you start climbing the 'emergency' ladder from under the water, if the water is too shallow, you can't get back in your boat.

 

[ghrrum 5]

Noticed another issue, I can't seem to stop crafting something once it's started