To Quote Eve: "Don't sail what you can't afford to lose"

[archaegeo 192]

Its an old Eve maxim and it applies here too.

Too many people rage quit when they use all their materials to build the biggest, best ship they can, and then it gets sunk for one reason or another and they have nothing to fall back on or rebuild with.

Stuff is just stuff.  There is no death penalty here, you dont lose xp, you dont lose skills, in fact death is almost always a good benefit unless you have no close bed.

To play on games like this, even the PvE side, you have to be ok with losing stuff that you can replace, especially now at the permanent 2x rates.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

People rage quit because the ease with which ships are sunk, does not equal the expense.  If you want ships to sink often, they need to be built often.  It's an old maxim stated by Mr. Common Sense.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Captain Jack Shadow

[archaegeo 192]

Ships are very easy to build now.

The fact you can get the best ship in the game 2 days after the game has launch makes them pretty easy to build

No, as a solo it might take you longer to build a galleon, of course you cant sail a galleon solo, so why are you trying.

But as a solo you can crank out a sloop in an hour, and ive had the current one im sailing for 4 days.  Sail smart, not into every ghost ships and storm.

3 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

People rage quit because the ease with which ships are sunk, does not equal the expense.  If you want ships to sink often, they need to be built often.  It's an old maximum stated by Mr. Common Sense.

 

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

Right, and that change is due to people quitting over the imbalance between how much it takes to build a ship, and how much it takes to sink one.  There are still problems, but reducing the cost of ships was a step in the right direction.  If and when ships sink less, or there is an insurance system to help replace lost ships, they could, and should, become more expensive to build.

If they add an insurance system, it should only apply to newly built ships under the more expensive resource requirements that would accompany the insurance system addition.

[Hodo 147]

There is an insurance system... if a ship is sunk, swim underwater and demolish the ships parts and bank.

 

And sorry but if you are a one man company and you are trying to sail around in a Schooner or bigger you are WRONG.   If you hire crew then you can pull it off, but if you dont you again are WRONG.   

Use a sloop and be happy.  I am part of a MUCH larger company and I still just use my sloop for most of my day to day sailing needs.

[Abra 3]

Every ship can be sunk by just getting enough tamed animals on it and thus exceeding the crew limit.

Its a rather broken mechanic that needs fixing fast.

 

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

If somebody puts a full crew of NPCs on a ship, and you board it, you can sink it. So yes, it is broken.

They need to stop limiting the crew, and let weight be the limiting factor.  But even that can be a thing that can be abused.

 

[Talono 434]

You can not compare Eve to Atlas. Eve has a PVE zone to live in and build ships.

These ships you fly into the PVP area and maybe lose them in battle. Then you have to fly one of your other ships from the hangar.

If you lose in Atlas you can punch a tree in a freeport after.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Talono

[Hodo 147]

1 minute ago, Talono said:

You can not compare Eve to Atlas. Eve has a PVE zone to live in and build ships.

These ships you fly into the PVP area and maybe lose them in battle. Then you have to fly one of your other ships from the hangar.

If you lose in Atlas you can punch a tree in a freeport after.

 

Do you even play EVE?  LOL I have lost a billion isk in a ship right in a high sec system, Jita which is the middle of the trade zone.   There is no such thing as a "safe" PVE zone for EVE.  Unless you never undock.  

[Talono 434]

2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

 

Do you even play EVE?  LOL I have lost a billion isk in a ship right in a high sec system, Jita which is the middle of the trade zone.   There is no such thing as a "safe" PVE zone for EVE.  Unless you never undock.  

I played Eve for 5 years and never lost a ship in HiSec. Maybe you should improve your skills.

[Goldfish The Builder 105]

Build smaller, so many ppl rushing to build brigs and gall and dont even have exp crews for them.

Its a pirate game you will lose ships, lots of them, you gata be ok with that!

[rodarin 17]

Actually a solo player with NPCs everywhere is more than likely going to sail a galleon better than a captain and real life player crew.

 

As it is now Galleons arent even that good. Schooners are exponentially better now with the changes.

 

But as others have said ships outright sinking due to people just walking on and overloading them is just another failed mechanics this game has so add that the the long list.

[Hodo 147]

37 minutes ago, Talono said:

I played Eve for 5 years and never lost a ship in HiSec. Maybe you should improve your skills.

Maybe you dont play enough.  I actually go out and fight in EVE and dont hide in stations and call it PVP, and I have been playing for 11 years now.

[Nightstrasza 137]

6 hours ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Right, and that change is due to people quitting over the imbalance between how much it takes to build a ship, and how much it takes to sink one.  There are still problems, but reducing the cost of ships was a step in the right direction.  If and when ships sink less, or there is an insurance system to help replace lost ships, they could, and should, become more expensive to build.

If they add an insurance system, it should only apply to newly built ships under the more expensive resource requirements that would accompany the insurance system addition.

Cheaper ships is not the right direction, more expensive but more durable ships are the right direction. Ppl wouldst not complain about lossing ships if they didn't sink in 10 cannon balls, medium plank have 2x less health than a frickin raft and a cannon does 1300 dmg, so do the math. Don't want to build meaningless glass cannons, want to put effort ina ship that gonna name, outfit as best as can, take care of and sail for prolonged time that is not 1 minute of battle and either side is already sinking.

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

31 minutes ago, Goldfish The Builder said:

Build smaller, so many ppl rushing to build brigs and gall and dont even have exp crews for them.

Its a pirate game you will lose ships, lots of them, you gata be ok with that!

And once again, for ships to be sunk, they have to be built.  The cost to build a ship needs to equal the likelihood that it will be sunk.  If not, players will bet frustrated, and quit.  Many already did, when they did the grind, only to lose their ships very quickly to the SotD so easily.  If that was a soft wipe, which many think it was, it was a colossal mistake.  Saying it wasn't won't change anything...the damage is already done.

This is not a single player game, so single player game style progression does not work, at all.  People aren't going to build a sloop first, just because they haven't built a ship yet.  There has to be a reason to build a smaller ship.  This is something that I never understand...why devs don't understand that gamers will not use something they create, unless there is a benefit to doing so.  Like, I played many FPS games, and while there were many weapon choices, eventually everyone was using just two weapons.  Why?  Because testing by many players determined that the other weapons were inferior to those two.  Gamers use what works best.  Why on Earth would somebody use a tiny ship with one or two cannons, and a small weight capacity, when they can use a large ship with hella firepower, and 4 times the weight capacity?  If you make a game, you have to understand this simple concept...gamers use what works best.  Period.  With a crew of NPCs, the Galleon is going to be better for you than a sloop....bottom line.  

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

6 minutes ago, Nightstrasza said:

Cheaper ships is not the right direction, more expensive but more durable ships are the right direction. Ppl wouldst not complain about lossing ships if they didn't sink in 10 cannon balls, medium plank have 2x less health than a frickin raft and a cannon does 1300 dmg, so do the math. Don't want to build meaningless glass cannons, want to put effort ina ship that gonna name, outfit as best as can, take care of and sail for prolonged time that is not 1 minute of battle and either side is already sinking.

And if you read things that I post, you will understand that I do not want ships that sink easily.  I am making the point to people who say that you will lose a lot of ships, that the only way to lose a lost of ships, is to build a lot of ships.  If the ships are going to sink easily, if that is what the Devs want, they need to make them as cheap to build as a wood base.  If they do not want them to be cheap to build, then they need to make them harder to sink.  Simple as that.  The easier a ship is to sink, the cheaper it MUST be to build.  It's common sense that these two things must be in balance.  Otherwise the seas will be empty.

[Kyorin 44]

15 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

And if you read things that I post, you will understand that I do not want ships that sink easily.  I am making the point to people who say that you will lose a lot of ships, that the only way to lose a lost of ships, is to build a lot of ships.  If the ships are going to sink easily, if that is what the Devs want, they need to make them as cheap to build as a wood base.  If they do not want them to be cheap to build, then they need to make them harder to sink.  Simple as that.  The easier a ship is to sink, the cheaper it MUST be to build.  It's common sense that these two things must be in balance.  Otherwise the seas will be empty.

Yeah that's a fair tradeoff.

As a solo/small grouper I have zero issues grinding for 3 days to build a ship.  As long as I know said ship isn't going to be taken from me by exploits, the current screwed up animals, fucking PvO yahoos, or some shit idea of balancing within a day after I launch it.  Which are the current issues.  So I don't mind the current crafting rates, but wouldn't be sad if they fixed both ships and reverted crafting as long as it's at about the same time.

Basically once I spend more time swinging my pick at trees and chopping at stones rebuilding stuff than I do sailing and having fun I'm out.  I'll just move to another game and tell like minded friends to wait awhile or not bother buying it.

[Hodo 147]

1 hour ago, Nightstrasza said:

Cheaper ships is not the right direction, more expensive but more durable ships are the right direction. Ppl wouldst not complain about lossing ships if they didn't sink in 10 cannon balls, medium plank have 2x less health than a frickin raft and a cannon does 1300 dmg, so do the math. Don't want to build meaningless glass cannons, want to put effort ina ship that gonna name, outfit as best as can, take care of and sail for prolonged time that is not 1 minute of battle and either side is already sinking.

 

No it just means you need to learn how to sail and avoid the guns of your enemy and then blast them out of the water.  You know captains back in the age of sail used to deal with this ALL the time.   

Do you think the HMS Victory would just shrug off shots from the Spanish and French 1st rates... nope.. it would take them, they would blow through the decks killing and wounding dozens, and the Victory would fire back.. more accurately and faster than the French or Spanish.

[LaiTash 156]

8 hours ago, archaegeo said:

Its an old Eve maxim and it applies here too.

*counting how many docked ships fell prey to her crew*

N-nooo, because most of the time you loose stuff when you're not sailing it.