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Dev Crusher

Auto loss of all structures, docks and ships on tuesday ?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ranger1k said:

   Having a dicussion with you @Pant is like trying to write with a broken pencil, it's pointless.

I suggest you sharpen your pencil by investing some hours on the pvp server, before you start talking about game mechanics you don't understand.

Edited by Pant

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Pant said:

I suggest you sharpen your pencil by investing some hours on the pvp server, before you start talking about game mechanics you don't understand.

Been there, done that.

Also in your post w @Nacona you state that you don't know how Silos work on Lawless, yet you criticize MY lack of knowledge regarding game mechanics... 🙄 

Buh-bye, Mr Broken Pencil, for the 3rd(?) time.

Edited by Ranger1k

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32 minutes ago, Pant said:

I suggest you sharpen your pencil by investing some hours on the pvp server, before you start talking about game mechanics you don't understand.

Lol you keep saying this other dude doesnt know what he' talking about, but you didnt know you could use a silo on lawless. A lot of your assumptions and conclusions are Possibilities* but not the case. Me and 2 others started playing again a month ago, built a base and what we needed in Lawless, been attacked a few times, defended it, never broken into and we are doing just fine. Yes a Mega could come wipe us any time, but they have no reason to Raid us. They MIGHT have a reason to try a new claim mechanic just for the lulz because what else are they doing with their gold/time? They reduced the gold cost of NPCs exponentially, ours might cost 200g a day, our barely producing warehouse generates far more than all our npcs and armored docks upkeep per day.  There is like 1 unclaimed island on NA PVP, the devs forced people to live in Lawless by cutting the Map down 70 grids. Final note, just because youv never survived on lawless for more than an afternoon, doesnt mean others of us cant. I rather enjoy my time fuckin around as a Bob these days and no longer being a part of the Megas...

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54 minutes ago, Ranger1k said:

Also in your post w @Nacona you state that you don't know how Silos work on Lawless, yet you criticize MY lack of knowledge regarding game mechanics... 🙄 

Yes, I was not aware you could place a silo on lawless. And yes I do not believe you have many hours on the pvp server, is that wrong?

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Posted (edited)

@Pant

My experience is characterized as follows..

1. I played Season 4 on PvP, season 3 & 5 PvE

2. I read everything that crosses this forum and have watched many PvP videos

3. I've played MMO-PvP games for ~25 years, as an adult, basically since the current models were invented

4. Unlike you, I LISTEN to other peoples comments and incorporate the information into my perspective.

5. I engage in DISCUSSIONS, avoiding broad generalizations and logical fallacies whenever possible, once again, unlike you.

 

     Now that being said, YOU WIN. Spew your verbal diarrhea. DGF, gotta go, got more important shit to do than deal with someone who's going to keep blurting shit until they get the last word. 

     Buh-bye Mr Broken Pencil

Edited by Ranger1k

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3 hours ago, Jagersturm42 said:

There is like 1 unclaimed island on NA PVP, the devs forced people to live in Lawless by cutting the Map down 70 grids. 

Theres 121 grids, if theres on average 4 islands per grid that equals to 484 islands. EU PVP the highest daily players have been at last week wass 368 which was yesterday on sunday, usually its between 200-300 players. An island can stay claimed for weeks and months if theres gold in the flag. Theres a bunch of the claimed islands that are up for grabs... You just need to poke them with a flag or is that to scary?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pant said:

Theres 121 grids, if theres on average 4 islands per grid that equals to 484 islands. EU PVP the highest daily players have been at last week wass 368 which was yesterday on sunday, usually its between 200-300 players. An island can stay claimed for weeks and months if theres gold in the flag. Theres a bunch of the claimed islands that are up for grabs... You just need to poke them with a flag or is that to scary?

Actually its closer to 72 grids with claimable islands.

You forgot to subtract..

a. GA and Kraken grids

b. Lawless

c. Freeports

d. Yeti-Boss grids (1 claimable island.)

My guess is the averaage #of "claimable" islands is closer to 2.5 times ~72 grids yielding ~180 claimable islands. A portion of those are enclosed w spammed shipyards, and more are held by well connected players alts, meaning if you build a significant presence there without permission you'll get wiped.  ~10+ VERY active players required to have a chance at building and holding a well fortified island I'd guess, unless diplomacy happens to go favorable...

Math.. 🙄

Guess I have a weakness for pointing out blatant misinformation. Sorry. 🤷‍♂️ 

Edited by Ranger1k

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1 hour ago, Ranger1k said:

My guess is the averaage #of "claimable" islands is closer to 2.5 times ~72 grids yielding ~180 claimable islands. 

Probably

1 hour ago, Ranger1k said:

A portion of those are enclosed w spammed shipyards, and more are held by well connected players alts, meaning if you build a significant presence there without permission you'll get wiped.  ~10+ VERY active players required to have a chance at building and holding a well fortified island I'd guess, unless diplomacy happens to go favorable...

Guess I have a weakness for pointing out blatant misinformation. Sorry. 🤷‍♂️ 

I think you would be suprised how many islands are held by 1-3 players with no affiliation with anyone. These days 10+ players is pretty much considered a mega and theres not that many megas per server. At the start of the season I ran into a 2 man company holding one of the equitorial grids up in the top left corner A1 or A2 or something.

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13 hours ago, Pant said:

Theres 121 grids, if theres on average 4 islands per grid that equals to 484 islands. EU PVP the highest daily players have been at last week wass 368 which was yesterday on sunday, usually its between 200-300 players. An island can stay claimed for weeks and months if theres gold in the flag. Theres a bunch of the claimed islands that are up for grabs... You just need to poke them with a flag or is that to scary?

Lol have you ever looked at the outer rim of the new map? A majority of those Grids have 2 islands. Your math is way off. Either way it doesnt matter, people survive on lawless just fine with how things are. Albeit the new crew system makes lawless toxic as hell with all the puckles. The old days bobs didnt have the patience/ability to crew up a bunch of defenses on lawless, nor could they properly protect boats. 

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3 hours ago, Jagersturm42 said:

Lol have you ever looked at the outer rim of the new map? A majority of those Grids have 2 islands. 

Theres a lot of grids that have 5-6 islands aswell but I didn't feel like counting them so i made a rough guestimate. If you want a better number feel free to count them, i am not going to object.

3 hours ago, Jagersturm42 said:

Either way it doesnt matter, people survive on lawless just fine with how things are. Albeit the new crew system makes lawless toxic as hell with all the puckles. The old days bobs didnt have the patience/ability to crew up a bunch of defenses on lawless, nor could they properly protect boats. 

The problem is the second you make an enemy they will target your base when you are offline and 200 gold upkeep worth of puckles won't take long to clear if you are not online. Which means you basically can't participate in any wars at all, I mean if thats how you want to play good for you. But if the devs gives you a peace timer wouldn't that be better?

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1 hour ago, Pant said:

The problem is the second you make an enemy they will target your base when you are offline and 200 gold upkeep worth of puckles won't take long to clear if you are not online. Which means you basically can't participate in any wars at all, I mean if thats how you want to play good for you. But if the devs gives you a peace timer wouldn't that be better?

You could try to make some roleplay. If you meet some other player you could ask them for fighting just for fun. On land or on sea it does not matter. If they agree you can have fun and maybe there is no base demolished and the other is not angry and needs his big revenge with offline raiding. You may let your prey escape if they are not interested in fighting or you offer them to surrender.

Actually this happened once to me. la FLotta del Terror joined my grid to ask for some 2 vs 2 Brig battle. It was fair and a great 1 hour battle i lost but i rescued one of the Brigs into the harbor while they had to run freeport to fix there holes too. They had so much fun that they told their Ally about so those guys showed 1up with 4-5 gallys. They did not ask for a battle but shoot our harbor and anchored ships telling we shall get out they want a fight too. If not we get wiped.(Fun fact we had only 1 common gally not leveled and not upgraded)

So you see the community is sometimes toxic but there can be nice guys out there as well. To start being the nice guy is the issue if others refuse this game style(red = dead)

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Posted (edited)

When ATLAS started it was a PVP game, where you had to take bases  from other players by fight, siege and cannons.

Now you just need 1 naked noob,  1 claim tower, 45 minutes plus an offline enemy.

Edited by Dev Crusher

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On 3/7/2021 at 12:26 PM, Ranger1k said:

You know 75% of hardcore players have alts right? Even requiring island points won't provide a deterrent.

Yeah people keep talking about all these alts and spy accounts. I think 75% is an exaggeration. I have met lots of people. Many that play so much more than me, I would call them hardcore. Only one guy ever had an alt and that was for crafting back when INT was broken.

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27 minutes ago, Dev Crusher said:

When ATLAS started it was a PVP game, where you had to take bases  from other players by fight, siege and cannons.

Now you just need 1 naked noob,  1 claim tower, 45 minutes plus an offline enemy.

That sounds like season 1 to me.

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On 3/7/2021 at 2:50 PM, Pant said:

Megas don't care about lawless... why would they?  Why would a mega spend resources and time to claim lawless bobs beach shack? If you took 20 people to lawless how long do you think people will find it fun to 20v1 a lawless bob or shooting empty structures? 

 

Megas do care about lawless. Perhaps not in the way you think. I refer to it as an exploit, but it might not fit that definition. 

What's better than having a few markets on your island for trade? Going to the adjacent lawless tiles and taking over some islands to setup more markets and WH to trade with yourself. Ever wonder why the megas have millions of gold? Its sheer volume. 50+ people cant generate that much gold on an island, but by dominating several lawless they basically farm gold in unlimited amounts.

This is the problem, this is what us solos and smalls are complaining about when we say its hard to get gold and keep markets up. The ever brilliant devs stated that the markets were to help the solos and smalls and that there would be incentives for megas to let them exist and earn their keep. They were obviously wrong as the incentive ended up being to dominate the land of solos and smalls (lawless) and take it over for their own trade rather than trade with the markets we set up. This is overlooked and not discussed enough.

When it comes to gold, its clearly an incentive to take 20 guys to wipe out 1 solos area to earn another 10-50k a day.

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On 3/7/2021 at 5:44 PM, Pant said:

Theres a limit to trade routes so no and storing gold on lawless is a bad idea for obvious reasons.

There is not a limit to alt companies. There are plenty of places in lawless where gold is stored by megas. I have lived on lawless for 90% of my Atlas life. I have managed to never loose any gold or materials that I did not want to loose. It is, er sorry, WAS actually pretty easy to keep your stuff secure.

These are all facts.

Now that anyone can claim it all before I even finish driving to work in the morning, I am not so sure.

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@Chucksteak

2 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

Yeah people keep talking about all these alts and spy accounts. I think 75% is an exaggeration. I have met lots of people. Many that play so much more than me, I would call them hardcore. Only one guy ever had an alt and that was for crafting back when INT was broken.

Maybe it is. Let me explain my calculation another way..

    1. In my tiny apartment I have 2 xboxs and 2 computers. I also have an old laptop. I only own 2 accounts, bought 1 for me and 1 of my kids. He didn't like it so I used it as a second account. I'm petty sure most households have atleast 1 gaming console and a computer. I've been in 5 resident houses w ~3 game systems and 2-5 computers (3 teens + parents) so Im POSITIVE some of the playerbase has 3 or more accounts.

     2. Theres some way to create guest accounts on xbox and I knew 1 person who created like 5-10 guest account characters somehow in order to pad their island points. Been explained to me several times but I never got around to fucking w it.

     I'll restate it therefore as "Theres a sufficient number of alts available to people who need island points to be able to erect these Lawless Towers to make it easily exploitable, IF, big IF it's a requirement"

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2 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

Megas do care about lawless. Perhaps not in the way you think. I refer to it as an exploit, but it might not fit that definition. 

What's better than having a few markets on your island for trade? Going to the adjacent lawless tiles and taking over some islands to setup more markets and WH to trade with yourself. Ever wonder why the megas have millions of gold? Its sheer volume. 50+ people cant generate that much gold on an island, but by dominating several lawless they basically farm gold in unlimited amounts.

This is the problem, this is what us solos and smalls are complaining about when we say its hard to get gold and keep markets up. The ever brilliant devs stated that the markets were to help the solos and smalls and that there would be incentives for megas to let them exist and earn their keep. They were obviously wrong as the incentive ended up being to dominate the land of solos and smalls (lawless) and take it over for their own trade rather than trade with the markets we set up. This is overlooked and not discussed enough.

When it comes to gold, its clearly an incentive to take 20 guys to wipe out 1 solos area to earn another 10-50k a day.

Megas have millions because the economy system the devs have implemented is just inflated af. I quit playing with the headshot nerf a couple of months ago and already then companies were dropping war decks just because they could. At this point fighting over gold makes as much sense as fighting over fiber.

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3 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

Now that anyone can claim it all before I even finish driving to work in the morning, I am not so sure.

It depends entirely on the mechanics they implement. Claimed islands are stupid easy to defend atm if you only care about the claim itself. People tend to give up when their base gets broken into, but defending the actual claim is very easy. If theres no defenders on the flag it ticks in the attackers favor, if theres one defender on the flag it ticks 2x in the defenders favor. So for you to defend a flag you just have to be on the flag more then 33% of the time or 20 minutes for every hour.

As a defender you can just spawn on a bed look for a poop and then run and hide somewhere in the claim zone, when the attackers find you, you just pop the brown pill and die. Rinse and repeat. If theres several of you, just stagger your spawn and run on the flag when the guy infront dies. As an attacker you basically have to either remove every single bed on the island or knock them the fuck out before they get a chance to use a brown pill and then lock them up in a jail. The attacker can spam puckles to prevent the defender from running on the flag but if the defender put down a bunch of fence spam, the attackers will have to spend hours clearing it before they can spam puckles.

If they copy pasted the claim mechanics to these tower and add a peace timer, because of how you basically have unlimited beds on lawless, attacking one of these towers would be an absolute pain in the ass.

I can see how these towers can go either way. Depending on how they work.

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10 minutes ago, Pant said:

Megas have millions because the economy system the devs have implemented is just inflated af. I quit playing with the headshot nerf a couple of months ago and already then companies were dropping war decks just because they could. At this point fighting over gold makes as much sense as fighting over fiber.

     First of all, just to be clear, I'm laughing in agreement w you about the money. I only had 1 warehouse and 2 to 4 consistent trading partners and gold was not an issue. I gave away 3 schooners, 3 brigs, a galleon, over 60k, kept about another 150k+ in reserve plus I owned a brig and a gally and kept around 100 NPCs on hand. I can only imagine on PvP owning Control Points + multiple markets + multiple islands + using alts (to keep the income on all sides of the transaction) + having large groups actively farming Treasure Maps... I'm sure theres some VERY wealthy Companies..

 

     Second whats a "War Deck"?

 

     Lastly though, I disagree w your conclusion. Remember that for some people "more" is just never "enough". Your assuming people will behave logically. Economists used to to call this the "Rational Markets Theory", I think, (I may be wrong on the name) but the important part is that its usually wrong. Theres going to be, FOR SURE, someone or group who wants to be the richest. #1 just for bragging rights or out of megalomania or to show off on Twitch etc... Like I stated in previous posts, it won't be out out of a NEED for the gold but the desire for more.. more, more, more that will move them to expand into these Lawless Tower spots... 

     A closing example; I knew a guy on PvE who had THREE markets/warehouses to HIMSELF on PvE. He had to jam them into wierd spots and refill them quite often BY HAND when he took mat losses, because he couldn't squeeze in a farm. Guess what? He still wanted a 4th... or more.. Made zero sense to me and me being satisfied with ONE market made zero sense to him.. 🙂

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Just now, Ranger1k said:

     Second whats a "War Deck"?

A company can pay gold to remove the peace timer on an island. The week before i stopped playing all our islands was war decked 3-4 times. I can't remember the price tag on it but its not cheap, they didn't even bother to attack... Basically just throwing gold away.

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14 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

Yeah people keep talking about all these alts and spy accounts. I think 75% is an exaggeration. I have met lots of people. Many that play so much more than me, I would call them hardcore. Only one guy ever had an alt and that was for crafting back when INT was broken.

Well as already mentioned 90% of xbox players that are still active switched to PC... but they still have the alt Xbox account. Atlas was sold once for 3.99€... you don't think some guys bought several copys as gifts or used them directly on alt steam accounts? Also for 25€ you can buy it right now... not much for most players.(look at World of Tanks etc where players spend 200-500€ a year) or monthly costs for WoW...

 

I am testing the market now on PVE H7 grid(build it far into the ocean). After two days 2 of 90 available markets accepted trading with me. Tonight i had my first trades and this morning i have 157 gold earned... well i have a shooner because somebody gifted me 5k gold and i scooped a floatsam with this shooner that had another 5k gold.(The brig with cargo sunk anchored next to my base) I have one connected farmhouse that stops work after 5-6 hours even if i empty it... So resources in warehouse are about 15-20k to trade. Well time will show if it gets better. I will try this evening again to ask around in the grids to accept my market for trading. Still wondering if it's possible to trade softwood for softwood for example, i saw this in a 3 month old video.

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Posted (edited)

@Nacona

   1. Last patch notes, or ones before, says they nerfed 1 for 1 (same item trading). Notes say you have to trade different materials now. Notes somewhere said the income from trading was being adjusted also. Look back a few patch notes basically. However the trade radius is getting bigger.

   2. I don't know if its a bug or if I was grandfathered in but I made ~5k or more a day from trading. I just performed 2 trades over and over, ( marble for marble and softwood for softwood) 2 old friends joined my Company and did same thing you did, built a warehouse and market out in the ocean about 6 tiles away. I don't think they ever got over 800gold a day.

      a. They had trouble keeping it full, so it wasn't always running. This caused less efficient trading and probably led some trading partners to drop them

      b. Most Companies were already maxed out on routes or satisfied and scared to mess with it because things were running fine.

A few other things..

     Someone claimed on here that you could cheat your trading partners by setting the trades at 100 to 1 and steal all their materials if they accepted the trade (or some bullshit like that) claiming the system would use an averaged trade ratio. Never happened to me, never verified it to protect myself and I doubt its true, but, who knows...

     Final thing. The last "Meta" or "Exploit" that I heard of was to have 2 or 3 markets and basically rotate the materials in a circle. 1st Market accept wood for stone, 2nd accept stone for flint then 3rd trades back to 1st Market something like accept flint for wood. The OP explains it better but you get the idea. Just move them in a self sufficient circle.. May be required to stagger the trades in conjunction (since each market can handle multiple routes)... but apparently if you do it correctly it's still very profitable like before.

** edit found the Announcement Patch Notes, date Feb 10th **

This is the link to the new method thread. I have NOT verified if this works and I have zero idea if the devs will begin labeling this as an "exploit"

https://www.playatlas.com/index.php?/forums/topic/119351-new-market-place-set-up/

 

Either way I GIVE the devs the correct solution to their problem in this thread back in January, a few posts down the thread. 🤷‍♂️ Also this happens to be the post where it's alleged theres a way to cheat trade partners

https://www.playatlas.com/index.php?/forums/topic/119171-new-trading-system-tips-tricks-exploits-issues-and-suggestions/&tab=comments#comment-517085

 

Good luck

Edited by Ranger1k
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@Ranger1k thank you very much. So i tried the system to use it as intended and do not benefit of that one... in fact it will take weeks to earn gold that way. Also I may loose all my materials if i trade 1:1 because others will abuse that... well it was already funny to see the diverse ratio setting up to 100:1. I just wonder how this could match... but a simple average between the offers... LOL and not to mention that as you say others have their routes set up and don't need me to interfere... crazy. Best option is to look around for a second warhouse spot and trade with myself in a constant loop. *haha* So many players still searching for a spot but everybody needs two or trust worthy neighbors.

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@Ranger1k and @NaconaI have found you can make a nice lump of change if you set you market up correctly. I can get between 10-20k every 8 hours. Trading with 4 companies. And 5 farms connected to a warehouse. Something I have noticed is that with time if you start getting a bunch of aborted trades which results in less and less income. the best thing you can do is delete your market and rebuild it. That fixes it for me. Also when requesting trade routes try to find the ones with 8/8 or less routes. (Ex. 7/8, 6/8, 5/8 etc etc) not entirely sure of the correlation yet but think it has to do with the routes your shipment has to take to reach its destination, but that is totally speculative? If anyone knows please share your knowledge.

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