Ranger1k

Try and find a company maybe?... Solo in PvP is a rough gig.

8 hours ago, Xantria said:

Needs further elaboration or Eeeceee's point becomes the new meta for unsinkable launch points. Immune to damage should = vulnerable to stealing.

However, we'd be lucky if this game makes it to release in a playable state at this point. Development direction seems to be a slow, continuous downward spiral.

5 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

WTF are you talking about? Boats are things you can steal, I said nothing about taking this away. In fact I specifically mentioned having to sleep on my boat and keep it stocked with gold in order to keep it safe. You cannot steal a boat with an owner on board. If the boat cannot take dmg due to green anchor after 15 mins, then you cannot get to my character to hurt or remove me from my boat. So you cannot steal the boat I am logged out on if I enclosed myself and have a green anchor.

I suppose, if you were so inclined, that you could park next to me and wait for me to log on and hope I will raise anchor and sail away with you right there. That would be highly unlikely though, and regardless it forces you to deal with me when I'm online, witch is what we are going for after all.

  @Chucksteak unfortunately @Xantria is pointing out a valid flaw. If anchoring then sleeping on a ship renders it unable to be damaged or stolen then we arrive at the alternate account problem. I'll elaborate.

     I have 2 xboxes and 2 computers in my household. Many households have this many Atlas compatible devices or more. If I were part of a group of nefarious griefers we could use our main accounts per usual, then purchase alternate accounts and park our invulnerable boats (w alts) in various locations to form grief blockades or act as FOBs. From my house alone I could surround your boat w 3 alt-account boats and play on my main, theoretically.

Needs reworking, unless I'm missing something.

Also, in anticipation of a possible retort, YES people will waste that much money, time and effort to troll someone.

Sorry dood

48 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

 

What you refer to as "Wolf and Sheep" dilemma, I call a lack of proper incentive. By default the mechanics will always favor a bigger company, cant be helped. This makes the default incentive to join a bigger company. 

Examples:

1. The wolves go after the sheep because there is no incentive for them to go after another wolf. In fact the incentive is currently reversed. It costs/risks nothing to cruise by lawless and level everything insight. Where as you could loose all your gear and fleet in a more competitive engagement. 

2. There is no incentive to take over someone's island if you already have your own. In fact, its reversed again. There is more benefit/incentive to defending your island than taking someone else's. Even worse, the implied incentive is for a solo/small company to try to get an island with that sweet peace timer. GL 1 or 2 vs 50+.

If we had proper incentives for the bigger wolves, they would not eat all of the sheep. We need something to compete for that is tangible, rewarding, and progressive. 

Example:

Lineage 2 had castles that could be contested every other weekend. Some smaller castles that drew tax from their local towns, and some larger castles that drew tax from the region. Bigger clans would go for bigger castles, smaller clans would go for smaller castles. Solos and tiny clans would go for forts. A group of 4 would be happy with a fort, knowing they could never take a castle, because outside of taxes, they functioned similarly, both had stores, buffs and teleporters.

The owning an island and taxing residents was an attempt at this, but the balance is lopsided. The owner has near complete control of residents and structures and gets the tax. The little guy gets nothing from the deal.

The WH and trade markets are a good step towards this. 

Personally (as a rough draft), I would add NPCs with stores and AH in freeports (a working economy basically), then a central island that is claimable once a week that sets/draws tax from the 4 freeport islands and perhaps a portion of the control points. The control points are for solos and small companies to squabble over, while the bigger companies would contend for the central island. This is all after removing claimable islands OFC. Lets open the map back up, make everything lawless outside of freeports.

 

Oh, and not once will I ever care about what a dev spends on servers. Their monetary concerns are theirs, not mine. We didn't fund the game with our $5-15 per person. They are a business and it takes money to make money. They will not make money without a game that can release and sell for $40-60 a copy.

hmmm....unless your Star Citizen. 

Well stated.

I have another method, but, when i spoke to a trusted University Professor (teaching in related subject matter), he advised me to speak w a copyright lawyer before I say anything. Still deciding. Kinda a big deal, pretty sure it's a novel approach in the gaming industry.

38 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

Its just a thought of what I would do if I was a pirate who could not pirate anyone. Still depriving them of using the gathered resources in any useful way. 

Solid point, IF the devs don't intervene they'll have to perform runs from their farmhouse, unless that gets walled off also. Another thread indicated devs are intervening in clear cases of PvE griefing though.

26 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

The goal is for them to not be able to get out, like a wasp trap. 

Renew the decay timer then puch till ya die. Or eat a chicken turd, i did that once on accident and it insta-killed me, guessing it still works

I'm playing solo PvE this season, this is how i went about things..

By lvl 5 i was able to leave the cold freeport on a ramshackle w 2 campfires to keep me warm and a bed.

Found a lawless spot, removed the sail and steering wheel from the ramshackle and placed a smithy. I then immediately placed farmhouses and a warehouse THEN built a base and finally a shipyard, loom, tannery etc.

Built a sloop w a diving attachment, gathered gold, acquired crew and proceeded to put 20+ levels into weight. Around level 15 i was able to convert it to a whaling sloop. If the wind died i parked someplace safe since it still bottoms out at ~5 knots in bad wind conditions. I'm VERY experienced whaling and also didn't experience any tragic events so things worked out fine.

This isn't the only path, its probably not the most efficient path but it worked and i had fun. I'm now mapping and sitting around 20k w a schooner.

Also a reminder or *disclaimer*... This was on PvE. PvP would require a more complex approach or a team effort probably

Last thing I'm not advocating for or against ship costs, just trying to provide some tips

Good luck

@jmurph

I'm still laughing you called them "seal clubbers"

I remember a pvp game i was in had a guild called "The Seal Cub Clubbing Club"... lol... Sooo wrong that it makes it funny

Say that 5 times as fast as ya can

I was stating that 1 per company BY ITSELF will not solve the problem.

So...

Actually we're pretty much in agreement. The exclusion radius needs to be lowered again (or eliminated) and the functions should probably combined, atleast farmhouse with WH (possibly the market also) with the resource collection radius expanded.

This COULD reduce the desire for companies to block out other WHs... Although in PvP WH blocking/destruction will still occur under the current system to reduce FOBs appearing on a companies island.

2 hours ago, jmurph said:

This is a great post that shows way more familiarity with PVP design than anything the devs have posted. PVP absolutely relies on an influx of newer players or it stagnates and dies. Griefers and seal clubbers drive newbies away. So do high barriers to content (looking at gold requirements for ships). To get to some sort of equilibrium, you need upward pressure on the bottom (to motivate newer, less skilled players) and downward pressure on the top (to avoid too much consolidation of power/complacency). This is why things like flat costs are generally bad (they are hard on newbies/lowbies) and scaled/ramping costs are better (more expensive for better stuff).

PVE is often much easier to balance as adding new animals, furniture, etc. is fairly easy and uses existing systems. Adding those same things in PVP is tougher if they affect the balance of power.

 

The real issue is that maintaining multiple servers is a constant expense, as are dev salaries and the game relies on pushing waves of discounted purchases. A subscription service for official would be a more stable way to get income, but would drive down active numbers and, right now, the broken systems and frequent wipes probably wouldn't sustain subscriptions. It would also pressure them to listen to players or risk losing income, whereas now the players are basically just unpaid beta testers.

      I doubt i have more familiarity w PvP design than a group of people doing it daily. There are several reasons why they don't post as much or as often

           1. Probably busy working

           2. They have NDAs and content announcements probably have an approval process, which takes time

           3. When they DO post they have to be pretty sure of what they say

          4. Their posts generally refer to concrete subject matter (small amounts of subject matter) whereas our posts refer to an endless abundance of subject matter (needs, wants, theories, complaints ,etc)

          5. I believe they are currently working on the equilibrium paradox as we speak. Hence farmhouses, markets, armored docks, trade etc. This shows they're aware of it.

          6. Last thing. Speaking less is a great tactic to get other people speaking and revealing things; telling you whats wrong, what they want, their attitude towards you, their motivation , ideas etc.

Other than taking issue with your initial statement regarding me vs devs, i think you put forth some solid points.

PS Thanks for the compliment

59 minutes ago, UnderTaker905 said:

Teach me this, wise one. I crave your know-how to get my market working - - My previous setup had 2 FH connected to my WH, which at the time was connected to my market at a distance of 19 meters. I'm certain I've read that the WH needs to be within 30 meters of the shore. I can guarantee that my warehouse is within the 30 meters of a shore because the market was 19 meters away, and it was at water's edge. I had trade routes in the panel listed as "Accepted"....yet not a single coin... I've recently moved the market so that it is literally directly in front of the warehouse, to the point I think it's actually touching the warehouse, which now says the warehouse is connected at a distance of 10 meters (even though, as I stated, they're close enough to be touching). Once again I have connected routes, or so it says, but still no coin. I know you can't see my setup, but based on that, can you detect anything wrong?

I'm having the same ssue. Just rebuilt my market and made 6 trade requests. Also I'm playing on console so i don't know if thats part of the issue. Since wipe I've only had 2 trades for 14 gold go through. Im going to try asking out loud in grid for trade partners next time i log in.

Sorry I'm unfamiliar w the anology "pants in comparison".. Don't know what that means.

7 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

 

However, there is still a solution I think. Here is what I would do. Build a giant structure around this other warehouse. Its possible you cant roof it in 100%, so build the walls as high as you can and as much roof as possible to prevent grappling hook and climbing picks as viable options. Now the owner cannot place another one or access the one he has. You have to be patient, and hope this other person gets mad and quits or leaves. If done right you can watch the decay timer and place your own when the other one pops. Sadly what took me 2 hours will take you many weeks likely, but three you have it. GL, hope to see you on PvP, where it is certainly not impossible for solos.

LoL Full roof required or they can glide in... LoL

Sidenote i also successfully soloed PvP, although I'll admit I did it as a settler.

To OP @Padwah , check around in a week or 2, people have short attention spans, there will be some decayed stuff around. Also, worst case scenario join someones company till then, I wouldn't know half the tricks I know if i hadn't joined a company here and there... Just set aside a little hidden PIN CODED box and set aside a reasonable portion of your earnings... 

1 hour ago, Whitehawk said:

As I've said before, they want the pvp route cos it's easier, you don't have to keep adding shed loadsa content to keep people interested, like you do with pve. That was obvious when we asked for more interior furnishings for housing and they blatantly admitted they had no plans to do it. I mean who the hell wants the inside of a building to be an empty square block in pve? Where as if you are hardcore pvp that prob won't bother you at all. Welcome to rust at sea.

 First off, love ya bro.

However PvP MMOs, especially hardcore ones, suffer from a paradoxical flaw. That being the wolves and sheep dilemma. Unless fresh sheep are constantly brought in somehow, the wolves eat all the sheep then the game dies. Its happened to the VAST majority of hardcore pvpmmos. Unless some type of balancing mechanism is introduced this IS what happens. Period. So content updates ARE required still... Ark DLC anyone?..

Also you cited someone (the devs?) saying no plans for interior furnishings. Which devs? The 40k per server devs? The creators of the old roadmap? Sorry if I'm sounding like a smartass, i assure that my intention isn't to insult, i reserve that for eeecee . Most recent patch notes indicate lots of changes and plans evolving..

Also "easier" is a relative term. If we define easier as less work, sure maybe. However i would take it a step further and say taking the easier route will also make less money AND result in a less enjoyable game. Case and point Conan, it has what, about 10+ dlcs, mostly cosmetic crap. I don't even like the game really but they've milked me for probably over $100 bucks.

Last thing, i don't think you actually refuted a single point i made.

Sorry to debate ya dood but i think your mistaken, time will tell.

1 hour ago, eeeceee said:

Ok, that was a strange comment, but who cares

What was strange?

If no one cares what are you yappin for?

Locate the servers on the moon or in Afghanistan for all i care.

As long it's not laggy and development keeps moving in a positive direction I'm satisfied.

My 2 cents...

1 per company solutions will NOT fix warehouse problems... Large companies will just sub-divide or use alt accounts.

Right now I'm leaning towards just getting rid of the exclusion radius and combine the farmhouse, market and warehouse, as others and myself have suggested.

Also, eliminating PvE is a terrible idea.

     1. Gives noobs an easier way to learn the game before POSSIBLY switching to PvP

     2.Not all people enjoy fighting other players, however, they enjoy many of the other features of this mmo. Like my kids, sometimes I'll give them a $100 toy and they wind up having more fun playing w the box it came in. Different people have different tastes. Quit baggin on people just because they're not having fun the way YOU think they should...

     3. It's bad busness to eliminate an entire audience for your product unless its losing money.

Have a good day y'all

The bottom left window in my market is blank.

When i try to accept trade requests i get a message stating that I'm maxed out on trade routes..

Anyone/ everyone in the same situation?

The problem w the 1 per company solutions is that people will just sub-divide their companies.

The only true solution,as OP stated, is to eliminate the prevention radius completely, and probably combine WH, Farmhouse and Market into a single structure.

Then as OP suggested MAYBE give it the range of a silo, maybe not, depending on whether they want to encourage strife & negotiations.

Problem solved. 

Ey caboose i have a spot on our old island, its lawless now, message me Sunday night I'll help get ya set back up.

The lag is being addressed and right now it isn't bad, for me atleast.

Season 4 i played PvP and actually found the lag to be WAY worse there due to all the defensive structures AND people intentionally crashing xbox players..

See if Disowned & Slivers wanna come have a crack at it. I got ya guys

Hope to hear from ya soon.

     The Market needs an ability to search commodity offerings in the area based on rate.

     1. For example if I'm willing to pay 2 wetwood per darkwood the Market should list all offerings that meet or beat that criteria.

     2. Also if I'm not offering enough per a darkwood I need to be able to see rates listed and either raise my offer or make a counter-offer

     3. Mail or message system to facilitate negotiations

     4. Also, many agree, the list of tradeable goods needs to be expanded eventually.

                      Fruit, veggies, seeds, raw meats, cooked meals, alcohols

                      Gold for commodity

                      Livestock

                      Armor, weapons, ammo, BPs, Maps

                      Ship parts, building parts of varying quality

     You guys are smart maybe this is already on the table ,and if so, hopefully this aids the checklist. If anyone has anything to add please do so. Also if you disagree state with what and why. If this list is on point please like it or place a *bump* comment

Thx

Obviously the structure and coding is evolving...

Feedback, bugs, exploits etc not already known?

Sending devs a report..?

You could ask island owner for a temporary alliance. Pain in the butt but however just throwing it out there.

I guess because otherwise a group of players could assemble for an assault right before peace timer deactivates?

Not saying i like the system, just stating the logic..

Pirates paid for tons of other stuff and engaged in all types of commerce...

Clothes, hats, guns, ammo, swords, food, personnel, medical supplies, information, repairs and yes, even ships...

Buccaneers got into pirating selling food to passing ships, including pirate ships...

Sometime pirates took over a ship only to discover it was just full of sugar, rum or spices, which they then proceeded to sell... They took hostages and ransomed them... Piracy and commerce are intertwined

Then theres the privateer discussion ... lol which I agree to disagree w ya on

     I DO agree w ya that ship stealing was a significant part of the pirate era and I'd like to see it used more in game. (never did get around to trying to steal a ship via "whats yours is mine"-skill someone told me it takes 12hours... Never got around to trying it on pvp. Any details regarding this would be appreciated.

@eeeceee I'll pass

@Gomez Addams i was just elaborating on some of the nuances regarding toxic behavior in PvP to help OP