There seems to be some confusion about Solo Play.

[Skyroguen 90]

Many people seem to have confused Solo Play with Isolationist Play.

Solo Players want to:

1. Plant their own flag.

2. Build their own base of operations.

3. Build their own ships.

4. Sail their own ships.

5. negotiate their own contracts.

6. Make their own trades.

7. Fight their own fights.

They are not looking to avoid interaction with others. They just want to do it on their own and share those accomplishments with their friends.

 

An Isolationist player doesn't want to interact with another player in any way and is content to play single player.

[mndfreeze 92]

Game is designed around the idea of groups, power struggles, war, etc.  There is going to be some content you are locked out of as a solo player.  Land claiming will mostly be one of those things unless you cut a deal with a larger group.

Everything else can be done solo without any real issue.  

 

[Skyroguen 90]

5 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

Game is designed around the idea of groups, power struggles, war, etc.  There is going to be some content you are locked out of as a solo player.  Land claiming will mostly be one of those things unless you cut a deal with a larger group.

Everything else can be done solo without any real issue.  

 

I agree. playing solo is and will always be difficult. I am mostly referring to the many accusations that solo player should go play somewhere else. Also Land claiming should not be locked out for the solo player. of course in PvP it is inevitable that a solo player would not be able to compete with a large group. Land claiming for the solo player will be very difficult but it isn't impossible. Holding that ground may be nearly impossible. especially in PvP.

[LaiTash 156]

33 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

Everything else can be done solo without any real issue.  

The issue is that you need land to have a chance of having a ship for more than one day and to have not all progress lost when his extremely fragile ship is sunk. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by LaiTash

[James Sulivan 11]

What people like me have issues with when it comes to the solo players is not their actual playstyle but when they come here complaining that the game should be changed to cater to their playstyle (asking for extra protections just because they are solo) because they often are at a logical disavantage when hostile groups cross their way.

 

[Skyroguen 90]

The big problem is there isn't enough land. They have made Land a far too rare and precious resource. the need to expand the map or open more servers to accommodate the population. I am not saying they should make sure each player has their own island, but they definitely need to provide more options to allow smaller groups and solo players a chance at gaining a small piece of territory somewhere. There needs to be some limits.

1 minute ago, James Sulivan said:

What people like me have issues with when it comes to the solo players is not their actual playstyle but when they come here complaining that the game should be changed to cater to their playstyle (asking for extra protections just because they are solo) because they often are at a logical disavantage when hostile groups cross their way.

 

Fair enough, There is a lot of complaining. not just from solo players. I agree the game should not be catered to solo play specifically. But having no chance at all is just not acceptable for anyone. the game should not be dominated by a few large groups to the Exclusion of everyone else.

[Coggage 239]

Well said, OP. I have no desire to group with other players unless I get to know them first. I like chatting, I like helping a passerby if they need it, but that's all I want from strangers. I'm just getting to know the people on the PvPvE server I play on the most, and I can forsee some joint ventures in the future, but I still won't join a company.

There's also the consideration that while there will be amazing players out there I have no desire to wade through 99 others to find the worthwhile one.

[Winter Thorne 696]

37 minutes ago, James Sulivan said:

What people like me have issues with when it comes to the solo players is not their actual playstyle but when they come here complaining that the game should be changed to cater to their playstyle (asking for extra protections just because they are solo) because they often are at a logical disavantage when hostile groups cross their way.

 

Are you talking about pvp or pve?

[mndfreeze 92]

1 hour ago, Skyroguen said:

I agree. playing solo is and will always be difficult. I am mostly referring to the many accusations that solo player should go play somewhere else. Also Land claiming should not be locked out for the solo player. of course in PvP it is inevitable that a solo player would not be able to compete with a large group. Land claiming for the solo player will be very difficult but it isn't impossible. Holding that ground may be nearly impossible. especially in PvP.

When I say locked out I don't mean due to mechanics. It's locked out because a solo player won't be able to really compete with a group.  In 24/7 survival games he who spends the most time online and has the most people to do it will always win in the end.  These are games of attrition with players and resources.  There are solo players who do it, and who even manage to hold claims so it's not impossible.  It is however unlikely, at least on the pvp servers that unless you are seriously tucked away in a spot that's just hard to find and undesirable.  

 

42 minutes ago, Skyroguen said:

The big problem is there isn't enough land. They have made Land a far too rare and precious resource. the need to expand the map or open more servers to accommodate the population. I am not saying they should make sure each player has their own island, but they definitely need to provide more options to allow smaller groups and solo players a chance at gaining a small piece of territory somewhere. There needs to be some limits.

Fair enough, There is a lot of complaining. not just from solo players. I agree the game should not be catered to solo play specifically. But having no chance at all is just not acceptable for anyone. the game should not be dominated by a few large groups to the Exclusion of everyone else.

The system is designed that way on purpose. You are SUPPOSED to fight for critical resources on pvp.  It's supposed to breed contention and war between players to spur pvp.  Land is probably the most important resource in this game.  IMO, they have already catered a ton into changing the game design to better fit solo players needs and I hope they are really careful going forward with further changes because it can ruin the entire concept if it becomes too simple for any old dude to own a big ole chunk of land.  Hopefully they do it well and further encourage ways for players to live on taxed land instead.

And really, the game is very much designed for group warfare.  They even stated before release that it was never designed with solo play in mind and that anyone trying would have a pretty rough time.  I'm not a fan of people coming in and trying to play a game differently than intended then asking for its core elements to be changed to cater to their needs. 

The game is definitely not dominated by a few large groups either. It seems that way because of the way they only show the top 10, but there are tons of small guilds and smaller alliances that push them off, war with each other, war with the big guys, every single day.  

There are also lawless islands for small groups / no claim lands.  We farm on nearby lawless islands every day and every day I destroy random foundations that have expired their demolish time and would have no problem building a small base there if I wanted to.  Space is around if you spend some time to look.

 

 

[LaiTash 156]

6 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

Hopefully they do it well and further encourage ways for players to live on taxed land instead.

That would be a perfect solution but i don't see that many companies interested in offering land for rental. It's not really solo player's fault that they don't live on taxed lands. 

[Skyroguen 90]

5 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

When I say locked out I don't mean due to mechanics. It's locked out because a solo player won't be able to really compete with a group.  In 24/7 survival games he who spends the most time online and has the most people to do it will always win in the end.  These are games of attrition with players and resources.  There are solo players who do it, and who even manage to hold claims so it's not impossible.  It is however unlikely, at least on the pvp servers that unless you are seriously tucked away in a spot that's just hard to find and undesirable.  

 

The system is designed that way on purpose. You are SUPPOSED to fight for critical resources on pvp.  It's supposed to breed contention and war between players to spur pvp.  Land is probably the most important resource in this game.  IMO, they have already catered a ton into changing the game design to better fit solo players needs and I hope they are really careful going forward with further changes because it can ruin the entire concept if it becomes too simple for any old dude to own a big ole chunk of land.  Hopefully they do it well and further encourage ways for players to live on taxed land instead.

And really, the game is very much designed for group warfare.  They even stated before release that it was never designed with solo play in mind and that anyone trying would have a pretty rough time.  I'm not a fan of people coming in and trying to play a game differently than intended then asking for its core elements to be changed to cater to their needs. 

The game is definitely not dominated by a few large groups either. It seems that way because of the way they only show the top 10, but there are tons of small guilds and smaller alliances that push them off, war with each other, war with the big guys, every single day.  

There are also lawless islands for small groups / no claim lands.  We farm on nearby lawless islands every day and every day I destroy random foundations that have expired their demolish time and would have no problem building a small base there if I wanted to.  Space is around if you spend some time to look.

 

 

I get it. on PvP there definitely needs to be this competition. it is what drives the game. It is the PvE servers that are lacking in land. because there is no way to take land. the few grab what they can and anyone come late to the party is left hanging. more Land is needed for the PvE side. maybe more PvE servers would help.

I agree that they need to be very careful going forward. 

I hope they come up with good and fair way to allow landowners to provide building space but prevent exploitation, not an easy task. I think they should focus on closing the exploits and balancing PvP. however there are a lot of PvE players and they shouldn't be ignored. I do like the idea of a mixed PvPvE server.

[LaiTash 156]

12 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

They even stated before release that it was never designed with solo play in mind and that anyone trying would have a pretty rough time.

I don't remember them saying that.

[mndfreeze 92]

It was in one of the interviews.

[LaiTash 156]

8 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

It was in one of the interviews.

I'm re-reading one of their interviews right now and it seems to me that their intention was to allow solo players to thrive via cooperating with large companies without necessarily joining them:

Quote

You can tax territory that you own, so in those regions if other players earn resources, a portion of those is automatically granted to your bank. Hopefully that’s an incentive for players to not only play competitively but cooperatively, even with people they don’t know. So like, “I’ll protect you if you play in my territory – but you’ll have to accept my 50% taxation rate.” Then maybe some upstart says “no, I’m gonna go with a 20% tax rate, come here!” We hope that players will feel they benefit from being feudal lords and having serfs, and not just trying to murder everyone they see.

Everything I just described we have at launch, what we intend to have early next year is a system for players to define laws in their territory. But interestingly we’re not going to have breaking those laws results in some lightning bolt from the sky that instantly kills you – rather, breaking those laws in a territory will brand you an outlaw in that territory. The consequences for that can be specified by the territory owner.

This isn't happening in real Atlas so people ask for alternatives.

[Zlax 41]

3 minutes ago, LaiTash said:

I'm re-reading one of their interviews right now and it seems to me that their intention was to allow solo players to thrive via cooperating with large companies without necessarily joining them:

This isn't happening in real Atlas so people ask for alternatives.

This happens all the time on PvP servers, please when you start these kinda topics be aware that land isnt really an issue on PvP servers, its mostly a PvE problem! On our island alonbe (PvP) there is a 2 man company and a 3 man company, they live in their own claims and farm from the island under tax, their claim is their own tho since people get uncomftable living on land that can be taken away. In total 6 companies lives on the island with 1 of them owning it and the rest paying taxes for the protection they earn from the big company.

For PvE, im actually not sure what to do, probably the changes they have already made to remove claims from the people not playing anymore is a big step in the right direction, however that will take about 2 weeks to really show through.

[Skyroguen 90]

7 minutes ago, LaiTash said:

I'm re-reading one of their interviews right now and it seems to me that their intention was to allow solo players to thrive via cooperating with large companies without necessarily joining them:

This isn't happening in real Atlas so people ask for alternatives.

They will need to be careful how they do this but is looks promising.

[mndfreeze 92]

It was in a video interview and the context was a bit shorter and different.  It was aimed at people wanting to play solo and NOT be involved with group play mechanics, i.e. not living on peoples lands, but trying to claim their own, not wanting to be in alliances, etc.  Like the context of this thread.

The problem with real atlas is solo players have nothing to offer land owners and no land owner is going to give them their own claim because land = power with risk and is basically the end game reward.  However if those solo players bit the bullet and formed some small companies that actually would be worth a damn for defense and stuff then other guilds would be more inclined to share space. I know this because this is what we do.  We own the majority of our island and at the start owned it all.  Smaller groups came and we allied them and gave them a claim or two.  As they grew and provided real benefit we worked out giving them a little more.  Letting people build on your land is generally a pretty big risk so the reward needs to be worth it.  

Changes are coming so I'm sure things will be made better for the little guy.  I just hope not so much that it ruins the entire design goal of the game.  You shouldn't get special treatment just because you choose to go against the grain of the design.

[Skyroguen 90]

5 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

Changes are coming so I'm sure things will be made better for the little guy.  I just hope not so much that it ruins the entire design goal of the game.  You shouldn't get special treatment just because you choose to go against the grain of the design.

I agree 100%

 

finding the balance is the challenge.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Skyroguen

[Vorxius 249]

Lest we forget, that small companies, like us (we're a two man brigade), are able to build boats and run missions to.  BUT, in lieu of the bugs, the hacks, the exploits, the griefing and bored players sinking PvE boats with impunity, the classic rules on the servers fail hard.  An offline Brig kill will cause a giant ripple in eagerness to build another for example.  Many of us 'smaller' players, were seldom able to get to the point where we actually fulfill the purpose of acting testers for this EA game.  Impossible to provide feedback on map / treasure hunting, if all our boats are getting wrecked by players abusing a loophole / exploiting weight glitches to sink your boats at 3am the same day you build them.

Something had to change, and many of these QOL changes are to make the game at least playable, when you don't have dozens of minions farming resources for you 24/7 so you can replace your brigs and galleons daily.

The game has a long way to go before its ultimate spirit / philosophy is mature enough to take precedence over the needed softening of the tone of the game in ironing out an endless list of oversights / poorly planned and implemented game features.

That said, with everything in place, and Jat & teams dedication to make it playable for EVERYONE, we're having a blast.  It really works for us and will get better still.  I still think PvE and PvP servers should have their own individual tuning and balancing so one doesn't affect the other to enhance gameplay..  but that's another thing entirely.

We're on the right tracks, but I appreciate the bigger guys that have none of the issues us minnows experience will see things differently.

[James Sulivan 11]

 

3 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

Are you talking about pvp or pve?

PvP of course, so many "problems" you can get rid of with the use of a canon. The 3days inactivity timer you have to wait on PvE servers in order to claim is already cancerous enough to deal with when you wanna take land from someone that doesn't use it properly or doesn't deserve the land he grabbed.

Edited February 1, 2019 by James Sulivan

[Winter Thorne 696]

46 minutes ago, James Sulivan said:

 

PvP of course, so many "problems" you can get rid of with the use of a canon. The 3days inactivity timer you have to wait on PvE servers in order to claim is already cancerous enough to deal with when you wanna take land from someone that doesn't use it properly or doesn't deserve the land he grabbed.

The timer's going to be 2 weeks, they said.  I don't mind a two week timer.  It's way better than the infinite one we started out with.  The only problem is that they wrecked it at the beginning by letting everyone without starting issues grab as much as they wanted.  Now when those timers go off, the guy with the claim next door is going to be sitting there ready to grab it.  It doesn't open much up for anyone else.

They need claim limits in pve, and they either need to do that with a 3 day warning so everyone can reorganize their claims and give up extra land sensibly, or just wipe the claims and start over.

[duque 14]

I am a solitary player, I have 5 flags placed on the ground, I made a galleon in 4/5 days, I play pve, I have all the boats that let the game, I can do 90% of the content of the game perfectly, I do not want protections, no nonsense rat kids who want everything for yesterday, if you stop saying nonsense that atlas is not for lonely players, if you want slaves do not count on me, pay the game and if I want to play solo game and point

[Fefu 43]

21 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

...or just wipe the claims and start over.

If they do this, I hope they will have a fix for the overlap bug and not before.

[James Sulivan 11]

22 minutes ago, duque said:

I do not want protections

 

22 minutes ago, duque said:

 I play pve

The irony.

Playing on PvE IS your protection, that's why you still have a Galleon and 5 flags all for yourself.

Edited February 1, 2019 by James Sulivan

[LaiTash 156]

20 minutes ago, duque said:

I play pve ... I do not want protections