Ranger1k

Elaborating further i guess they could make it entirely virtual, let the trade ships ghost through barriers, etc but then all you really have is... 1. A carrier pigeon that can haul 20k. & 2. Some Control Points to haggle over. Dunno. Looking forward to details.

I think its one of the reasons. Some of the PvP islands have huge defensive harbors. Walls stretching probably .75 km or more from shoreline. Add that and the distance to a warehouse ~.5 km or more inland and the completion radius gets a bit obnoxious. One company has or had a sea trap stretching pretty much from one of their islands to their other island.... Point is, the cleaner the slate is, then the easier it will be for them to troubleshoot it. Dunno. Makes sense to me.

During the trade discussion thread i questioned how physical barriers such as harbor defensive walls, sea traps, general collisions, crowded harbors etc would affect trade if the ships were actually physically travelling. Also questioned radius requirements for successful trade completion. Maybe instead of having people be forced into demolishing and reorganize things in order for trades to function they thought it would be better to release the applicable trade info, coming soon, and let people build their bases with the buildings and structures integrated from scratch. I remember i decided to demo 3k foundations, and, on console it sucked. Took like 6 to 8 hours lol.

Valid point. However I was speaking very specifically to launch week and very specifically to ships thinking that if they if they did this perpetually it would just lead to ship spam. Also for the reasons listed above. The idea of randomly finding or receiving better quality ships as loot, occasionally, as the game progresses is a very interesting tangent to explore. Too much for me to process at the moment. Got stuff to do. Ideas like purchasing (w gold) or receiving (as some vague reward) a complete upgrade from 100% common to 110% fine started swirling around.. lol @eeeceee made an edit. just a friendly fyi

Few points.. 1.Some of the powerleveling tricks and exploits have been addressed, maybe. I think lol. 2. Also it may help some of the smaller, less organized tribes get a jumpstart, competing better with highly organized megas. 3. Another reason is just cause it would just be fun. Close your eyes for a second and imagine being the person to randomly find a generic, claimable ship during the grindy, stress filled launch week. 4. It would throw an element of random luck and chaos into the launch. Evolution is rarely simply survival of the fittest, often luck plays a part. 5. Playing solo/ duo isn't going away. Think couples or siblings or bffs. Think introverts, lone wolves and anti social types also. Don't forget this game also includes settlers and alliances.. and lawless zones *edit* i was thinking maybe 3 a day or 3 every 12 hours across the ENTIRE map, RANDOM location yielding ~21-42 ships. Now i will concede that if very exact scientific measurements of how a wipe evolves are one of the goals OF this wipe then its best not to do it. Just thought it was a fun idea.

For the first week or so have a few schooners and brigs placed and randomly spawned in anchored around the map. Just a few commons. Make them claimable, or minimally guarded by npcs and able to be stolen.. Might help ignite some enthusiasm.. Good idea? No?

@Ucan_Kizmiaz & @PattusI did the ramshackle-sloop diving attachment ~2months ago but , if remember correctly, i had to move the steering wheel, which required a smithy to build one. Steering wheel in the center blocks the attachment so ya gotta pick a side like a car lol. Also you'll probably want grappling hooks to be as efficient as possible gold farming. I also swapped the 2 small sails to a medium ( if i remember correctly it was NOT required for fitting the diving attachment) both to decrease labor costs and improve speed. Loom required. Keratin proved to be a pain in the ass bottleneck. This was in the cold freeport. *edit* Woops good point about the level/skill points pattus. I was already ~40 Hope that helps w wipe planning or just in general.

@Whitehawk ok. Which book(s) are you recommending? Sorry but I'm too busy to look him up and scroll his list..

If thats the impression I'm giving you I believe now would be a good time to discontinue acting as devils advocate. Good luck

Let me refine and simplify my previous devils advocate speculations into a single, logical point. Charging gold for ship building may provide the companies leadership leverage to help influence less committed members actions.

Good luck

Actually some pirates were also business men. Or appointed by them.... Privateers. They didn't all steal boats.. It went like this. A country, lets say "France" or "England", wanted to undermine "Spains" grip on South American gold. Well, rather than launch a full out, expensive and UNPOPULAR war they'd offer a Privateering License (don't recall the actual name) to capable people. Those people either owned a ship or obtained investors.. and... bought ... one ... The licensed individual then hired a crew and proceeded to plunder and undermine "Spains" trade routes and colonies, giving the attacks some plausible deniabilty. Kind of covert warfare style. The license also required a kickback to the crown who issued the license and profits to investors. There was an added benefit... When lets say again "Spain" retaliated by sinking or stealing "English/ French" sugar shipments the "victims" screamed a biased cry of bloody murder in the press (when convenient)... Eventually diplomats get involved and war is declared or avoided. When the war was avoided, the license was amended or revoked. Thats when the pirates most people think of began commandeering (stealing/ mutiny/ enslaving) etc. Since they were either out of work, uninterested in traditional seafaring, drunk w power or just didn't want to stop... I am not an expert, furthermore "theft" precedes licenses by many millions of years, but Pirate and Privateer are semi interchangele terms that encompass a huge scope of scenarios.. Also seafaring/ piracy/ mutiny etc is subject matter that fills many pages of MANY books.. Final note, I'm still claiming devils advocate status dammit , but i must concede that generally speaking unnecessary grinding = boring/bad

Once again *disclaimer* I'm playing devils advocate.. Also I'm thinking through this AS i type it. I haven't meditated on it all. Also its been ~6weeks since i played.. I've been in several companies and ships were rarely shared. Sometimes people tried to give me their old shitty, common gally that i never wanted.. lol.. or i piloted someone elses gally during an island switch etc. But i wanted my own baby (designed, used, outfitted, proper leveling point allocation and PROPERLY STOCKED by ME). So did ALMOST everyone else.. But then..... Everyone whos been in a medium+ sized companies has had that doucher team mate. The guy who takes but doesn't refill, ya know what i mean? You ask him about it and he acts oblivious and keeps playing some other game and then comes back the next day and accidentally kills your only elephant? Maybe its a way of making HIM get off his ass and earn... or negotiate a loan etc.. Like i previously stated theres several other possibilities... Dunno. Just chatting.. thinking out loud..

NOT a fan of gold being a required mat for ship making but I'll play devils advocate... 1. Maybe it should go into a company treasury or 2. Be a reward for somebody owning, defending and "renting" a shipyard to another person? 3. Maybe the idea is a taxable-GOLD-mechanic that goes towards island upkeep? 4. Ship spam discouragement? 5. Part of a system not yet fully implemented w this aspect launched prematurely? Please remember I'm playing devils advocate..

@Chucksteak Ty for the previous responses, your insight and your candid opinions. I agree w several important things you've said in this thread. I disagree w others.. Wasn't sure if the @eeeceee quote was directed at him or at me.. and I frankly don't give a shit. Plenty of flashy resumes have been been involved in plenty of flaming shit-shows across ALL industries. Do we want a resume contest winner or a GOAT game? One DOES NOT equal the other. Now to the point of this thread... Everyone. I repeat everyone. The trade system is looming.. Lets THEORETICALLY.. Use it. Improve it. Break it. Exploit it. Optimize it. Lets run down the myriad of possible rabbitholes pre launch. I'm SURE theres more because I've held some back and haven't got around to responding to others. Basically lets strike while the iron is hot w our "what ifs" & "wish lists" REGARDING TRADE. Ty Later y'all

Ive gotta to be a douche and suggest you start a separate thread regarding complaints w islands/ lawless/ green anchors etc. Sidenote just as many Lawless islands are full of raided stuctures, many Company islands have harbors filled with barely used ships. Get checked weekly and then owners log off.. Please, though, seperate thread Input pertaining to the trade system; break it, exploit it, desired implementation methods, possible unforseen issues, etc Also i like previous posters ideas such as @Gomez Addams ship parts (building parts?) and @Nacona concerns regarding maps, mythos, gold, sugar etc. I'd add berries, herbs, cooked food, alcohols, ice,.... Take care. Please skim previous posts before adding content

I voted nerf. Meaning - they shouldn't be fired from canons but yes from catapults Also if we're going to be engineers then thicker (higher hp) wall/ doors should be a simpler option. No BP required just more stone/ metal per unit. Think biblical walls 50-100k health. Also barrels should have a decay timer, especially at sea (keep your powder dry), and another weight increase. Most the issues w barrels are part of a larger issue regarding time investment, risk vs reward and the taming/ breeding system... Not going into that right now Have fun

@eeeceee If the "overthinking" comment is referring to the 20+ scenarios/ possibilities and additional rabbithole postulations i disagree. Of course much of it depends on the actual implementation methods, however, that is also part of the theme... Can we? Could we? Should we? What if? How will it ACTUALLY be used by players... In OP i suggested keep the trade system VERY simple at the initial launch, understand why lol? Also I must admit I'm a bit disappointed that nobody has commented on what/how they'd like to see the trade system work...and exploit scenarios.. Woot got some input @Nacona as i was writing this.. Shout out to ya PS Pic shows variable ratios btw if i understand your question correctly. That leads to ANOTHER possible rabbithole - how competitive will the bidding be? Bid vs WHOLE MAP or defined distance etc.. Another example.. Does gold "auto generate" or get paid by users? Perhaps both even... Maybe holding a control point should yield X amount of gold per hour even if theres ZERO trade... i know theres alot of other bugs and stuff but keeping this thread bumping could really have a positive impact and also head off disasters. It could give checklists and choices for Generic choice a, b, c and immediate trouble shooting pointers.. G'night

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... ... and then we fucked up the end game" Quote from the movie Charlie Wilsons War 19. How will the trade vessels respond when transitioning from an overloaded server to a stable server? Will they transform from virtual to physical? Then back again if needed? 20. How will they interact w harbor defensive walls and crowded shorelines? What about simple ships in the way and collisions? Just some food for thought. Hope this helps w testing...

Sorry thought of 2 more.. 17. Radius - how close will the trade ships need to get to the reception facility to complete the transaction? Problems if its located far inland? What if the facilty is relocated or destroyed during the voyage? 18. Will sea traps affect trade ships? How will defensive structures on a multi-company island make targeting decisions if the trade ships are labeled? I apologize in advance for any ulcers I'm creating, hopefully these postulations are helpful I have a bunch more but gotta go..

@Chucksteak and others who wish to constructively analyze possibilities.. Not such easy thought experiments actually... Possibilities are significant... Will material being shipped affect speed? ( guessing probably not) but theres more to it... Picture showed no sail... So i guess like SotD w wind and weather. Ok. Multiple mats per ship or each mat gets a ship? Load capacity? Minimums to prevent spam? Maximums - 1 trade ship carry, say 10k metal? 20k? 250k?.. You get the idea.. or standardized amounts per ship depending on weight? Lets go further down the rabbit hole... Lets say i use my lil schooner to sink a trade ship w 50k metal.. Will there be a private or public marker for leftovers? Will it have a decay timer? How long? Sidenote i think the taxes should probably be carried on the trade ship, locked rate upon departure, to further incentivise sea battles... However, going further down the rabbit hole, will this result in a double reward for control point owners by letting them collect the tax then destroy the trade ship after it pays its toll? Not trying to be a troll/ negative nancy or a hater.. Seperate rabbit hole. Cant remember if company logs note resource removal (don't think so) but the receiving structure should be one thats convenient to place access restrictions upon so that if JimBob McGee (the newb/ spy/ frenemy) steals it people aren't screaming about bugs etc.. Comon people lets mentally bend it & break it PRE LAUNCH for these developers so they can have a good rollout and get back to optimization, bug removal, balance decisions and creating new content.. Last thing, please read previous threads posted before commenting and please, please stay focused on topics that pertain DIRECTLY to trade. Also if you think this is important and have opinions BUMP IT UP

@Chucksteak Was editing as you responded. Threw in a few more curveballs to help ensure thorough consideration was given to avoid problems/ exploits and most importantly BUGS Sidenote this was more of a "brainstorming" and checklist style thread than prediction oriented. Thanks for the input though ya salty ol scallywag you

Thought of more scenarios for players and devs to play through/ test/ consider... 15. Successful trade completion. Where do the trade goods end up? I assumed thats why "docks" were mentioned several months ago? a. Do the trade ships have to be manually unloaded? b. If auto unloaded to where? Market? Warehouse? Docks? Special "designated" resource box? Tax bank? Option customizable? c. Most importantly, if theres a stack cap on the recieving structure what happens to the excess mats? d. Don't forget the recipients may wish to place access resrictions on the receptacle (sp?) 16. What happens to trade goods (en route) AND control points when... a. A company disbands? b. Changes ownership? c. Adjusts access restrictions? Makes other adjustments? d. Decay timers activate? Again, good luck & best wishes

I definitely agree the old map had a better biome arrangement. Does lawless have control points?

Advice, things to consider devs... 1. Can Company A initiate a trade, then cancel it and still receive Company B goods? 2. Can Company A initiate a trade, then just go sink/ steal both ships? 3. If Company A initiates a trade and a 3rd party (such as a co-conspirator or 2nd account) sinks/steals the outgoing cargo does Company A still receive their goods from Company B? 4. Will trade vessels be armed? It appeared so in the pictures.. 5. Can the control point owner just camp their site and just sink/steal all the cargo flowing through under protection of said control point? 6. What happens if a control point changes hands after a trade has been initiated.. Both when alternative routes are available and, more importantly, when they're not? 7. Will the "trade tax" be paid up front at the market or transformed into gold out of the cargo? 8. Will, or have you considered, making insurance a part of this? Insurance was an actual product utilized back in the day... 9. How will Sotd react to trade ships? What about killer whales? Even mermaids..Consequences for traders? 10. If trade ships ARE armed will they initiate battles w nearby players or only respond to aggression? Will they fight or just fire but stay on course? 11. Have you considered letting transaction participants choose/ pay for higher/ lower levels of shipping vessl armament? 12. What effect will cyclones have on trade vessels? 13. Will the trade ships be labeled in some way so that people know which companies cargo they're plundering? 14. Will there be an announcement/log file when negative events occur? Last thing, it was stated, if i remember correctly, that at a certain point the trade vessel will be/ become virtual to reduce server load, correct? It may be wise to begin ALL transactions as virtual until the above mentioned exploits and scenarios have been addressed imo. Have a steady flow of "generic-npc" trade ships for players to plunder for fun at the outset perhaps? Advice to players Make small/ frequent trades initially to reduce the cost benefit for nefarious trade partners. Anyone have a scenario i missed to help the devs? Have a good day everyone.