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Adfax

Why is the age mechanic STILL in the game????

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2 minutes ago, Adfax said:

You only agree because they're attempting to help your failed argument. Failing at their attempt at that.

Okay, maybe it was rude to say you were "stupid", I admit to that. But everything else is true.

Do I have to actually explain this to you also?...Okay then.

If you felt nothing, you would do nothing. Everything you do ties back to your base emotions/instincts in some facet or other. If you had no base emotions, you'd have no reason to do anything, and thus would do nothing. No logical thoughts, nothing.

If A=B and B=C then A=C is logical and true regardless of how you feel about it. To state that logic is based upon emotion is to misunderstand what at least one of those two things are. Computers have no emotions but can make logical computations and do so constantly. Logic is not dependent upon emotion, it is in fact indifferent to it.

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2 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

If A=B and B=C then A=C is logical and true regardless of how you feel about it. To state that logic is based upon emotion is to misunderstand what at least one of those two things are. Computers have no emotions but can make logical computations and do so constantly. Logic is not dependent upon emotion, it is in fact indifferent to it.

Right, but those machines are programmed for a purpose, from which the ultimate purpose stems from emotion. 

Without emotion, you never have logic.

You're misunderstanding. You're thinking i'm saying "emotion is logic". No, i'm saying you'll never have a logical thought without a feeling first.

Edited by Adfax

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6 minutes ago, Adfax said:

You only agree because they're attempting to help your failed argument. Failing at their attempt at that.

Okay, maybe it was rude to say you were "stupid", I admit to that. But everything else is true.

Do I have to actually explain this to you also?...Okay then.

If you felt nothing, you would do nothing. Everything you do ties back to your base emotions/instincts in some facet or other. If you had no base emotions, you'd have no reason to do anything, and thus would do nothing. No logical thoughts, nothing. Logic is in service to emotion.

You're now guilty of the same sin as the person you're trying to help, which was exactly my problem.

Think it through before you post.

Please stop insulting people, we are not rude to you, yet you go around calling people who do not support your points stupid. It is incessant and unnecessary. You have been guilty of doing this on other occasions as well.

The only thing we feel is you trying to harass players out of your posts so you get a more favourable outcome of them via any dev reading through. 

You have been violating the code of conduct of the forums, keep doing it and you will see what comes your way.

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Just now, Bad News Bear said:

Please stop insulting people, we are not rude to you, yet you go around calling people who do not support your points stupid. It is incessant and unnecessary. You have been guilty of doing this on other occasions as well.

The only thing we feel is you trying to harass players out of your posts so you get a more favourable outcome of them via any dev reading through. 

You have been violating the code of conduct of the forums, keep doing it and you will see what comes your way.

Settle down; it isn't that bad. I just want you to argue your points better.

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Just now, Adfax said:

Right, but those machines are programmed for a purpose, from which the ultimate purpose stems from emotion. 

Without emotion, you never have logic.

If this what you need to tell yourself to save face, I am not going to spend time going in circles with you because you are entrenched in a premise that I have never encountered another person subscribing to. We simply disagree on this.

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2 minutes ago, Adfax said:

Settle down; it isn't that bad. I just want you to argue your points better.

It doesnt matter how well we argue them. I have explained my reasoning and the enjoyment the content has brought me whist doing it, I even offered people to join me when doing it, yet you still blindly go on insulting.

It is that bad, you arent stopping. Iu’ve been harassing players on the forums.

The only reason you even changed your tone is because yiu actually realized what you were doing wrong and you can actually get muted/banned from the forums for it. You’re the ine that needs to settle down, I have been calm this entire time.

Edited by Bad News Bear
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1 minute ago, boomervoncannon said:

If this what you need to tell yourself to save face, I am not going to spend time going in circles with you because you are entrenched in a premise that I have never encountered another person subscribing to. We simply disagree on this.

You don't have a counter argument, I get it. Don't be a sore loser though. What i'm saying is completely... Logical.

It is a simple matter of cause and effect.

Edited by Adfax

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6 minutes ago, Adfax said:

Right, but those machines are programmed for a purpose, from which the ultimate purpose stems from emotion. 

Without emotion, you never have logic.

You're misunderstanding. You're thinking i'm saying "emotion is logic". No, i'm saying you'll never have a logical thought without a feeling first.

Just because human beings both experience emotions and formulate logical arguments does not mean one flows from the other or is caused by it in any way.

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1 minute ago, boomervoncannon said:

Just because human beings both experience emotions and formulate logical arguments does not mean one flows from the other or is caused by it in any way.

It does.You'd never commit to a logical thought without a feeling first.

Your emotions are your reason. They come from your base instincts filtered through your beliefs.

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3 minutes ago, Adfax said:

It does.You'd never commit to a logical thought without a feeling first.

Your emotions are your reason. They come from your base instincts filtered through your beliefs.

Your post is an emotional response to an ingame content that you dislike and think should be change based on your personal beliefs. Based on your judgement you’re discrediting yourself.

we simply do not agree with your point is all. Could the content be structured better? more than likely, should it be scrapped as per your post? Absolutely not.

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1 minute ago, Bad News Bear said:

Your post is an emotional response to an ingame content that you dislike and think should be change based on your personal beliefs. Based on your judgement you’re discrediting yourself.

we simply do not agree with your point is all. Could the content be structured better? more than likely, should it be scrapped as per your post? Absolutely not.

Wrong. There was emotion in the post, but the core argument remains logical.

But as I already said, you can't have logic without emotion first. So every post has emotion.

Edited by Adfax

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2 minutes ago, Adfax said:

It does.You'd never commit to a logical thought without a feeling first.

Your emotions are your reason. They come from your base instincts filtered through your beliefs.

This is why I’m uninterested in going around in circles with you. Do not mistake my lack of desire to have to repeat things I should not with not having an argument. You assert that without emotion you’d never be able to have logical thoughts, but as I have already pointed out, computers, which have no emotions, are entirely capable of formulating logical arguments, and AI is rapidly progressing to the point where it does so better than human beings. This disproves the notion that emotion is necessary in any way for logic.

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3 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

This is why I’m uninterested in going around in circles with you. Do not mistake my lack of desire to have to repeat things I should not with not having an argument. You assert that without emotion you’d never be able to have logical thoughts, but as I have already pointed out, computers, which have no emotions, are entirely capable of formulating logical arguments, and AI is rapidly progressing to the point where it does so better than human beings. This disproves the notion that emotion is necessary in any way for logic.

I have already pointed out that the programming in those computers STEMS from emotion.

This is why I said you're mistaking what i'm saying. What you are saying would apply if I was saying "emotion is logic", which is not what i'm saying. I'm saying all logic stems from emotion; even in a computer. No, the computer isn't experiencing emotion; the person who made it was. The person who is inputting commands was.

 

Edited by Adfax

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3 minutes ago, Adfax said:

Wrong. There was emotion in the post, but the core argument remains logical.

But as I already said, you can't have logic without emotion first. So every post has emotion.

Damn, I guess I was wrong all along. Never knew the only way to make a logical or valid argument was by first getting the seal of approval from the all-mighty ADFAX and his golden voice of reason.

I will ensure to have you proof-read all my future posts to ensure they are logical and valid. Because that is clearly the only way any constructive development will arise. Please ensure you let the developers know that you are the sole voice they should follow to create content, oh great lord of reason.

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Just now, Bad News Bear said:

Damn, I guess I was wrong all along. Never knew the only way to make a logical or valid argument was by first getting the seal of approval from the all-mighty ADFAX and his golden voice of reason.

I will ensure to have you proof-read all my future posts to ensure they are logical and valid. Because that is clearly the only way any constructive development will arise. Please ensure you let the developers know that you are the sole voice they should follow to create content, oh great lord of reason.

If I were, this game would be much much better. 

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1 minute ago, Adfax said:

I have already pointed out that the programming in those computers STEMS from emotion.

This is why I said you're mistaking what i'm saying. What you are saying would apply if I was saying "emotion is logic", which is not what i'm saying. I'm saying all logic stems from emotion; even in a computer.

It is a fallacy to say that computer programming stems from emotion and although no one should have to break down for you something so fundamentally in error, I will further refute your argument by referring you to the growing debate over AI singularity. At some point the machines will be able to write their own code, upgrade themselves by constructing what amounts to highly complex logical arguments and they will do so without ever feeling an emotion.

The bottom line is you have a core premise that logic stems from emotion. I disagree fundamentally with this premise and have presented my case why. I’m not going to go around and around in circles with you as you attempt to rationalize a premise I have never seen anyone else ascribe to and consider fundamentally unsound.

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3 minutes ago, Adfax said:

If I were, this game would be much much better. 

Then clearly the appropriate action for you would be to stop wasting your time debating on these forums and go develop your own far superior game. There is clearly a great deal of money to be made, and even in the unlikely event you don’t care about money, you would get to enjoy the satisfaction of a game designed to your own desires.

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42 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

Then clearly the appropriate action for you would be to stop wasting your time debating on these forums and go develop your own far superior game. There is clearly a great deal of money to be made, and even in the unlikely event you don’t care about money, you would get to enjoy the satisfaction of a game designed to your own desires.

Agreed, ADFAX’s talent is wasted on this game and us puny mortals, he should vanish into the horizon and into famehood of the development of the greatest game that ever existed.

We are, by all means beneath him.

Let’s do him a favour by reportingn his ass until he no longer wastes his superior time here.

Edited by Bad News Bear

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1 hour ago, boomervoncannon said:

Then clearly the appropriate action for you would be to stop wasting your time debating on these forums and go develop your own far superior game. There is clearly a great deal of money to be made, and even in the unlikely event you don’t care about money, you would get to enjoy the satisfaction of a game designed to your own desires.

No, it'd be much easier just to convince the devs what does and does not suck about their game.

1 hour ago, boomervoncannon said:

It is a fallacy to say that computer programming stems from emotion and although no one should have to break down for you something so fundamentally in error, I will further refute your argument by referring you to the growing debate over AI singularity. At some point the machines will be able to write their own code, upgrade themselves by constructing what amounts to highly complex logical arguments and they will do so without ever feeling an emotion.

The bottom line is you have a core premise that logic stems from emotion. I disagree fundamentally with this premise and have presented my case why. I’m not going to go around and around in circles with you as you attempt to rationalize a premise I have never seen anyone else ascribe to and consider fundamentally unsound.

It is a fallacy? Why is it a fallacy? We make computers for a purpose, therefore, they stem from emotion. The logic is completely sound. You're just in denial because to admit to that would be to admit you were wrong; which you're far too emotional to do.

I've explained the argument, it has no errors you've been able to point out. It isn't a fallacy. 

If AI writes it's own code, it STILL comes from emotion. WHY? Because it still all stems back to emotion. The AI that writes it's code was programmed by  what? A human driven by emotion. Therefore? Therefore my argument still stands.

Edited by Adfax

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the fountain and age wouldn't be so bad if they actually put some effort into it... made the caves different from one another and made traps or puzzles instead of super monster spam

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1 minute ago, Enki Anunnaki said:

the fountain and age wouldn't be so bad if they actually put some effort into it... made the caves different from one another and made traps or puzzles instead of super monster spam

Variety nearly always is a plus. I do think the current rate of aging is a bit excessive as well. I also think the aging debuff should not have been implemented until the breeding as an option was implemented. Part of what made FOY runs unfun for so many was the massive lag caused by hordes rushing to do it. Many of these people were likely motivated to remove the debuff as much as try out the new thing. Providing options for how to do so would have mitigated this.

Another thing that could have mitigated this problem was clearer communication as to how the system works and specifics of the debuff. Just this morning I posted to clarify to a misinformed player who thought if he reached 100 he would die and lose his character. I have been 100 for weeks and find it to be no meaningful impediment. Not sure what percentage of players realize accurately just how optional doing FOY is even without breeding as an option.

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5 hours ago, Adfax said:

Anyone who likes the age mechanic, and likes the FOY isn't considering the impact on the majority. If the majority do not like it, then there will be no game to play if it is left as is.

I'm curious how you managed to canvass "the majority" of  the players.  Without an actual study, this is speculation at best, but is more likely to be emotional bias.  If you can produce well done proofs  that "the majority" of players don't like it, the devs will be far more likely to take it under advisement.  Until that happens, they'll probably think you sound more like a wet cat in a paper bag.  

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3 minutes ago, Raine said:

I'm curious how you managed to canvass "the majority" of  the players.  Without an actual study, this is speculation at best, but is more likely to be emotional bias.  If you can produce well done proofs  that "the majority" of players don't like it, the devs will be far more likely to take it under advisement.  Until that happens, they'll probably think you sound more like a wet cat in a paper bag.  

I would not expect your statement to register with someone who contends that logic derives from emotion, but for the record I concur.

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Logic does not derive from emotion.  Otherwise geometric proofs would be based on emotion.  However, decision-making is in fact based on emotion, as demonstrated in a ground-breaking study by Antonio Damasio of people who were brain damaged in their emotional centers.  Without emotion as a tipping point, they were unable to make decisions.  Adfax's response is basically emotional without the weight of a legit study to back him up.  He may be correct that most players detest the age mechanic.  The question is, how could you prove that and would it really push the devs to tweak or remove it?  

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8 minutes ago, Raine said:

Logic does not derive from emotion.  Otherwise geometric proofs would be based on emotion.  However, decision-making is in fact based on emotion, as demonstrated in a ground-breaking study by Antonio Damasio of people who were brain damaged in their emotional centers.  Without emotion as a tipping point, they were unable to make decisions.  Adfax's response is basically emotional without the weight of a legit study to back him up.  He may be correct that most players detest the age mechanic.  The question is, how could you prove that and would it really push the devs to tweak or remove it?  

If you review his earlier posts to this thread, he's actually argued that logic cannot exist without emotion. He asserts that even computer programming stems from emotion.  I would encourage you to review his posts before investing to much energy into trying to convince him of the need for a study as opposed to his opinion. 

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