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Graylance Ravenwind

Bow vs Guns after v10

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On 1/11/2019 at 3:44 AM, Graylance Ravenwind said:

Hello all!

 

Instead of bashing the change, I decided to go and lay out the current state of the bows and firearms in general for myself. I like thinking and taking notes, so I am just going to go through this for myself while taking notes in here. As I do so for myself, you will get to reap the information I gather. So let's go to it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Reload Timers------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bow Reload Timers Test

Quick Draw shot = 1 sec

Full Draw shot = 3 sec

Pistol Reload Timers Test

NO RELOAD SPEED BONUSES

Perfect Reload = 15 seconds

Auto Reload =  19 seconds

Spam click (complete failure ) = 20  seconds

_____________________________________________

+30% Reload Speed

image.png.f1f543f1d9fd024e80c937388765fe84.png 

Perfect Reload = 12 seconds

Auto Reload = 16 seconds

Spam click (complete failure ) = 17  seconds

____________________________________________

Carbine Reload Timers Test

Perfect Reload = 15 seconds

Auto Reload = 20 seconds

Spam click (complete failure ) = 21 seconds

____________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------DPS TESTS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Test #1

Object: Training Dummy

Bow skills = 0

All Gun Reload Skills.

Bow :  4 x shots at 35 dmg each Dummy DPS score of 28

Pistol: 1 x shots at 90 dmg each Dummy DPS score of 18

Carbine: 1 x shot at 160 dmg each Dummy DPS score of 32

I don't trust this meter since it has a flawed truncated calculation method based on 5 second rule.

Test #2

Object:  lvl 7 Giraffe Field Test

  • Carbine shot = 136 Dmg
    • Extrapolated Perfect Reload DPS: 136/15 = 9.06
    • Extrapolated Auto Reload DPS: 136/20= 6.8
    • Extrapolated Spam Click Reload DPS: 136/21 = 6.48

 

  • Flintlock Shot No Buffs = 75 Dmg
    • Extrapolated Perfect Reload DPS: 75/15 = 5
    • Extrapolated Auto Reload DPS: 75/20= 3.95
    • Extrapolated Spam Click Reload DPS: 75/21 = 3.75

 

  • Flintlock Shot +30% Reload Buff = 75 Dmg
    • Extrapolated Perfect Reload DPS: 75/12 = 6.25
    • Extrapolated Auto Reload DPS: 75/16= 4.69
    • Extrapolated Spam Click Reload DPS: 75/17 = 4.41

 

  • Bow Shot No Buff = 34 Dmg
    • Extrapolated Quick  DPS: 34/1 = 34
    • Extrapolated Full Reload DPS: 34/3 = 11.33

 

In this controlled test we are able to see that the Bow wins even with 0 buffs. However, this example does not include a situation where multiple pistols are worn and the switch can be done within 2 seconds between each shot, but even in that specific case the damage of the pistols would go up to about 37.5 in which case the pistol would win the damage race.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------SKILL POINT COST------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let us look however on the other side of the problem that is caused by this firearms nerf. The problem is the investment cost of Bow vs. Firearm

First cost is in Skill Points:

Bow requires these skills: Tools of Trade (1 point) > Archery (3 points) totaling 4 points for non-buffed damage explored above.

Flintlock requires these skills: Tools of Trade (1 point) > Archery (3 points)> Ballistic Studies (2 points) > Improved Ballistic Studies (4 Points) > Expert ballistic Studies (10 Points) > Sapper (6 points) > Firearms Unlock (4 Points) > Pistol Basics (2 points) a total of :

  1. 32 points for 0% reload buff weapon crafting; (32 total)
  2. +14 points for +30% reload buff; (46 total)
  3. +24 points for Carbine unlock; (70 total)

Bow once again wins in accessibility and point cost.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------CRAFTING and MAINTENANCE COST------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second is the Crafting and Maintenance Costs:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bow    (Can Be crafted anywhere!)

  • 60 fiber
  • 6 Hide
  • 22 Wood

Bow Repair 1/2 resources:

  • 30 Fiber
  • 3 Hide
  • 11 Wood

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flintlock  (Crafted ONLY at the Smithy!)

  • 16 Flint
  • 18 Hide
  • 36 Metal
  • 8 Oil
  • 22 Wood

Flintlock Repair 1/2 resources:

  • 8 Flint
  • 9 Hide
  • 18 Metal
  • 4 Oil
  • 11 Wood

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carbine (Crafted ONLY at the Smithy!)

  • 65 Alloy
  • 3 Flint
  • 32 Hide
  • 20 Oil
  • 85 Wood

Carbine Repair 1/2 cost:

  • 33 Alloy
  • 2 Flint
  • 16 Hide
  • 10 Oil
  • 43 Wood

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, yet again Bow wins!

Last but not least the per bullet cost as well as accessibility of resources in materials goes up exponentially when we compare Bow to Flintlock and Carbine making per shot cost yet again in favor of the bow.

 

Sadly, bows are currently the most powerful weapon and the cheapest weapon with ease of access in our hands, at least when it comes to culling the wildlife.

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

image.png

the nerf to guns was one of the first mistakes they did togheter with the nerf to gliding, since then the bow is the most versatile "end game" weapon choice wich makes the progression rather pointless since unlike guns the bow is one of the first weapons you have access to.

On 1/11/2019 at 2:14 PM, Elrood said:

Which means crap on PvE cause we practically ever fight unarmored stuff. 
And this comparison didn't even touch fire arrows.

the pve side of atlas was just a bait, they never had the intention of focusing on it, wich is why all the changes applied to the pvp servers in regards to damage were carried over to the pve servers.

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On 1/11/2019 at 2:59 PM, Leebum said:

due to kinetic energy though, a bow will always do more damage than a gun. Especially against ball bearing bullets.

 

you have no fucking idea how to calculate the kinetic energy of a projectile do you?

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On 1/11/2019 at 3:29 PM, Baba Ganush said:

you cant expect much from devs that not even play their own game! V10 was the worst they made so far, ive seen so many guys quitting the game after V10, weapons are a totally bust now and useless, they don't worth the cost of skill points!

i think they did play it at some point, the guns nerf MIGHT have been caused by jath getting his ass handed to him xD

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On 1/11/2019 at 4:00 PM, Leebum said:

Interesting. You clearly have more knowledge than me on firearms. 

My point being that the 2 foot or more length of an arrows with a metal head or in Atlas sharp flint has more kinetic energy to drive into a target.

So an 18mm bullet vs 2 foot arrow must have variable results due to speed and target density. However, as i stated, my main point is the kinetic energy transfer from arrows vs bullets.

 

kinetic energy has nothing to do with the length of the projectile only with its mass and velocity

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Yeah that's exactly what i just said in my post which shows bows/arrows can be stronger than certain calibers, and moreso better for specific object penetration. 

 

Also bows are not better in PvE lol.. you can 1 shot most things with a carbine.

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