Claiming System Concerns - Instances would be better

[Bitroaster 21]

I like the new claiming system better... however

The PTR is now up and running for give or take roughly 12 hours. Given the fact that only a  fraction of Players (I think max. 30%) takes part in the PTR test run, its remarkable how much of the map is already claimed.  I'd say about 60-80 % is either claimed or occupied with significant presence. 

I personally do not think there will be enough room for every Clan to claim an island as was hinted in the patch notes.

I didn't count the possible settlements, but I'm sure the number is far less than 1000. Compare that to the total number of Companies and players.

Therefore the new Claiming system will benefit large and medium companies. Not small companies and solos as intended and indicated in the Patch notes.

I personally wouldn't mind if I don't get a settlement on my own. after all it's all about "getting along with the neighbors".

But what really disappoints me is the ever present decay that punishes and negates any effort that a claim-less player  invests in the game. 

Please turn off decay. The settlement owner can blast away whatever bothers him/her anyway.

OR even better Introduce "instanced-homeports" for each player. containing a very small island with basic resources, water, crystal and salt and building limited to  a single medium shipyard and no decay. Like that everyone can have some permanent home-server without spamming the rest of the grid.  Entering the homeport can be realised with a pop up menu that appears when sailing over the server borders. access to the homeport can be set by the owning company. If you deny access you can't attack other companies and can't declare war. if you attack someone the access to your homeport is granted to all with a cooldown before it can be denied again. during war its open.

 

 

[Sansa Phoenix 60]

I have to +1 on the part where there is already so many islands claimed. But I think limiting claim flags to so many per company based on number of members would have been much better. 

I know you Devs think differently, but there are a LOT of us out there who have NO desire to live under someone else's rule, and we won't. We'll build in Lawless again first. 

We can get along fine with our neighbors without making us subjects under a ruler. 

As it stands now, When this goes official (not just PTR), there will once again be no land left to claim that will be worth having. There are too many islands out there that have wood and stone, but no fiber. Fiber and wood, but not stone. Lots of rock, fiber, trees, but strangely no berries. Undesirable islands that have little to no resources.... and I'm not claiming one of them just to have a place of my own. Its pointless. 

I'm telling you, you can't force people to live under someone else. We will find a way to NOT do it. Or we won't play your game. Not trying to be a bitch here. Just trying to get you to HEAR what we're saying. There is NOT enough land to go around, and that fact will NOT force a lot of us to be ok with living on someone else's land where they can destroy everything we have just because they don't like us, or don't like our build, or some other nonsense. And that kind of thing WILL happen, I guarentee it.

And before anyone recites that a land owner had only a 12 hour window to destroy your stuff, let me remind you they can STILL box you in, gate your ships, and pillar/foundation your spot to force you out, leaving you to have to abondon everything you just worked for because you no longer have any access to it. 

Ijs......

[Winter Thorne 696]

10 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

I have to +1 on the part where there is already so many islands claimed. But I think limiting claim flags to so many per company based on number of members would have been much better. 

 

There is supposed to be a limit on pve.  On pvp they're supposed to fight over them.

11 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

As it stands now, When this goes official (not just PTR), there will once again be no land left to claim that will be worth having. There are too many islands out there that have wood and stone, but no fiber. Fiber and wood, but not stone. Lots of rock, fiber, trees, but strangely no berries. Undesirable islands that have little to no resources.... and I'm not claiming one of them just to have a place of my own. Its pointless. 

Completely agree with that for pve, because the only way to free up an island that new people can claim is when the old claimant leaves the game.  I don't mind some of the resources not being available everywhere, because I'd like to see a really good trading system in the game, and promote traveling, etc.  But the basics ought to be everywhere.  If you can't even build a tiny dock and basic tools without having to travel, it's bad.  And if blueprint crafting ever becomes worth anything, then you could have basics+ nearly everything else on each island and still promote trade and travel with the multi requirements for blueprints.

15 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

I'm telling you, you can't force people to live under someone else. We will find a way to NOT do it. Or we won't play your game. Not trying to be a bitch here. Just trying to get you to HEAR what we're saying. There is NOT enough land to go around, and that fact will NOT force a lot of us to be ok with living on someone else's land where they can destroy everything we have just because they don't like us, or don't like our build, or some other nonsense. And that kind of thing WILL happen, I guarentee it.

And before anyone recites that a land owner had only a 12 hour window to destroy your stuff, let me remind you they can STILL box you in, gate your ships, and pillar/foundation your spot to force you out, leaving you to have to abondon everything you just worked for because you no longer have any access to it. 

 

This is just definitely NOT the system we wanted.  The only way I'd be a tenant is if the landlord was already a buddy in the game.  With an unknown?  No.  After a day on the ptr, it looks like being a landlord won't be a bed of roses either.

Having said all that, I hate the OP's idea of instances for claims.  It's bad enough having to be on a separate island from your friends if you all claim.  That would put everyone in a whole separate universe.

[Sansa Phoenix 60]

This is true. 

We were in A11.. and it looks like, on the ptr, its still a lawless region. I think we are going to rebuild on the same island there (hope its still lawless on PvE too) and call it good. Maybe we can get some neighbors who are also friends, although with no ability to alliance, thats going to screw shit up. 

As I was just saying in another thread, we all can make the choice to make PvE what we want, ya know: Create our own player shops, make our own trading system, people who have resources or blueprints or goods they don't need could always put them in an unlocked storage box tucked away on their island somewhere so that someone else exploring might find it (just as some whimsical "oh.. look at this" kind of thing), and I'm sure there are many more ways to make PvE what WE want. 

I guess we'll see. 

So if anyone wants to be friendly neighbors in A11 on PvE after official release of 1.5, let me know  Might even be interesting in merging companies at some point down the road, just to have more of us working to make good shit happen. 

We're Pheonix Rising in game. (at least we are unless my tribesman comes up with something else stellar for a name lol) And PR could always be bigger. Not to divide and conquer, but create. 

[Sansa Phoenix 60]

Ok.... I guess PvE WILL have alliances! 

Somehow I missed that memo... 

[Winter Thorne 696]

57 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

This is true. 

We were in A11.. and it looks like, on the ptr, its still a lawless region. I think we are going to rebuild on the same island there (hope its still lawless on PvE too) and call it good. Maybe we can get some neighbors who are also friends, although with no ability to alliance, thats going to screw shit up. 

As I was just saying in another thread, we all can make the choice to make PvE what we want, ya know: Create our own player shops, make our own trading system, people who have resources or blueprints or goods they don't need could always put them in an unlocked storage box tucked away on their island somewhere so that someone else exploring might find it (just as some whimsical "oh.. look at this" kind of thing), and I'm sure there are many more ways to make PvE what WE want. 

I guess we'll see. 

So if anyone wants to be friendly neighbors in A11 on PvE after official release of 1.5, let me know  Might even be interesting in merging companies at some point down the road, just to have more of us working to make good shit happen. 

We're Pheonix Rising in game. (at least we are unless my tribesman comes up with something else stellar for a name lol) And PR could always be bigger. Not to divide and conquer, but create. 

Not to make this thread even larger (because it's in the bug forum, and it's not a bug, really), but creating our own local player shops is kinda hard to do.  Even 1 on 1 player trading is hard to do without a good interface.  A while back, I posted a tongue-in-cheek help wanted ad for Atlas Mail - We're going postal! (TM) .  That's an idea that could actually work for player trading if only notes could have items attached to them.  People could ship stuff everywhere.  But everything takes a bit of mechanics to make it work, even if the players want to do the heavy lifting of organizing to do it.  I like your unlocked box idea.  I was going to do something similar with a waterfront restaurant.  They would both be good things, but would be even better with some advanced container permissions - all can put items in, none can take them out, etc.  What about being able to set decay rates on something small like a note?  You could drop hints around the island to a goodie box , with the last hint giving the pin code, and the notes self-destruct when read?     

[Aranol 2]

I think founding a place where to live is the goal of the game.

instanced system come with a lot of possible exploit (how can you be attack, how player can attack your instanced island) ?

for now, it quiet attractive for large compagnie to have smaller one under there protection.

I think the good way is to (maybe) adjust the actual game parameter (taxe / settlements cost) for both larger tribe (who own the island), and smaller tribe (who live under there protection) have benefits of the presence of each other

[Sheepshooter 120]

I think the problem - apart from my PC not installing the PTR... - is that it is not very clear what Atlas is and/or should be.

Right now it is 'Raft-ARK', were the rafts mechanic is better working (npc crew) and somewhat more realistic (wind).
But still it is highly focused on land bases and resources - tames included. They tried to get rid of the foundation spam problem with the claim (spam) system.
With most of the player base coming from ARK, they ARK-ified Atlas ASAP... claiming everything, building giant (laggy) bases as usual and kicking everyone out if possible, which was made much easier because of the claim system...

So under the hood Atlas is ARK for Rafts, but the intend - as can be seen playing all other parts of the game, apart from the ARK stuff - is this 'living on the sea', travelling the world.
They tried to enforce it with the resource scarcity and blueprint system. They tried to enforce it with the level cap by exploration points. With the tames biome scarcity. With the quest line.

It failed because of the non-PVP (aka offlining aka 'Hard-Core'PVP) and other griefing mechanics, which resulted in ships lost in port while offline.
Without ships no living (as in being online with ship) on the sea - back to the usual ARK game play.

As we see already on the PTR, all islands are already claimed. Taxes can be set to even higher griefing values (50%?) or you just get destroyed by 'the owner' in non-PVP.
So even if you just want to have your ship and get out to sea it is still hard.

Would be nice to have a place called home, sure. But if the intend of the game design is to get you out on the ocean, how 'much' base do you need?
Basically you need a small place to put stuff, which should not sink with your ship (in case you encounter actual PVP) and resources around it to get back on your feet again. Oh yeah and some safe space for your tames (as in not a giant behemoth gate circle...). Who needs a whole island for himself for that? No-one...

But because Atlas is ARK you cannot get the 'pirate haven' and if you try you have to just protect that all the time and cannot leave on an adventure.

So they try to tweak the game mechanic to promote live and let live on the islands. Raid timers and upkeep. Just so you might be allowed - welcomed? - to use an island and maybe get online with your ship still there.

But the problem is the incentives towards the type of players. As long it is not negative enough to grief you and not positive enough (as in needed for survival) to keep you around, the game stays toxic.
Sure make upkeep so high that no-one can hold claim to an island alone. Maybe that will get landlords thinking. Maybe the just setup some dummy corps and have those within their clan to keep cost down, while still kicking everyone else out...

And griefers, as long as they can grief you they will... maybe atleast with some form of ORP griefers would have to look you in the eye doing it, unlike how the 'hardCore'-PVP crowd likes it...

What could be the solution? I don't know, but I have my own ideas...
But before first it is understood what type of game play is intended for Atlas - exploring the high sea as pathfinders - and second understanding the incentives for griefing other players that a trying to enjoy that game play nothing will change basically...
If that means getting rid of the ARK game play to finally get an Atlas game play, yes please.

PS: Ideas
- Maybe make it so, that anyone on an island is fully raid protected, but the land owner or even just the claim flag area. Meaning that the owner or the flag can be attacked at any time - no need for war tokens. But when the claim falls the island becomes raid able for a set amount of time and no one living there is save anymore.
This would promote 1. the owner wanting to have 24/7 as many people on deck to hold the fort and help in the defense, meaning to have as many inhabitants as possible on his island and his side ; 2. which means he has to keep them happy - low taxes, no griefing from his side; 3. giving the inhabitants the incentive to help in the defense of the claim, to keep their stuff save as well; 4. or maybe helping the attacker in getting rid of the current owner.
There would have to be some form of protection against insiders, so the fort is not opened to the enemy from the inside, etc. - or maybe that could be part of the fun...
Anyway I think this could be a way to have raid protection for your stuff, while it is still possible under certain conditions that you can loose it in battle.

- For the problem with landlords griefing inhabitants by being able to destroy their stuff, this could be fixed positive for both sides, by not allowing the owner to attack anyone (as per the raid protection rules above), but giving the owner the option to put an 'eviction timer' on any structure part and or connected building and or player/company structure. That timer/s should be something between one hour (for foundation spam) to one week (for complete player/company eviction). When the timer runs out the structure, including any loot in it, disappears. The owner of the structure gets informed by the game when such a timer is started on him. He than has the option to take out his stuff and/or take the structure down for the resources.
As no one gets any loot from the structure owner, their is no incentive to do it from the side of the claim owner to do it for loot. And because there is a 'fair warning' timer griefing can be at a minimum - you just have to leave, but not get annihilated, just for fun.