PVE Offline Claim Flag Timer - A Suggestion

[BaldingEagle 2]

So I play solo on NA PVE, and I'm bordered by one of these top 5 megaguilds - they control almost every square inch of the island I'm on (and many more...) and tax everything 30%. There has been a lot of discussion about limiting claim flags - which I agree with, and have some thoughts about for another post - but I've not seen much discussion about the 72 hour offline protection. It does appear that they have finally fixed that in recent patches because claim flags are auto-refreshing their timers when people come online (without having to replace them). I do wish they'd let us see our own timers, but I digress.

One of the serious problems with this system that I've noticed is PVE flags have basically become permanent. Don't get me wrong - I like the offline protection idea, and would like to see it expanded to allow for things like RL vacations in the future (maybe with a material cost to buy X offline time that also expires when you log back in). But the current form is in severe need of balancing, as it means that flags will never be taken unless someone basically stops playing the game. This problem is magnified with larger companies, since they have so many folks rotating in and out online that the flag timer is always topped off. Essentially the bigger your guild is, the more permanent your flags are. What are the odds that a megaguild completely dissolves or every one of its members stops coming online for 3 days? 

Now play this out in the long run. Assuming no server wipe and several megaguilds who keep a presence in-game, eventually all the smaller companies and solo players who quit or merge become part of megaguild territory. Since the megaguilds cannot be competed with by having any of their territory stolen - ever - they just keep growing. Eventually the whole map would be consumed between a handful of different companies who control everything and "allow" other players to build on claimed land... at 30% tax of course. Is this really the vision the devs have for this game? I don't think so, especially after reading several posts lately with direct comments from those same devs about supporting solos and small companies.

I will concede that I don't know exactly how the refreshing on the flag timer works. It is not clear if its simply you log in and they all refresh, or all the ones in your zone refresh, or if you have to walk through the radius, or even if its a personal proximity radius, etc... I will say I've noted different timers on different flags at opposite ends of my territory, from the same megaguild. This makes me suspect its either proximity or actually walking through the radius. That's good, but not enough in my opinion. Just like the recent patch attempting to address this by decreasing the counterclaim timer proportional to the number of flags owned - that's great, but I can't even put DOWN a claim flag while there's an offline protection timer that keeps getting topped off in place.

 

So what do I propose? I would put in place a system that decreases the total offline protection by 5% per flag over 1. 

In other words, at 1 flag, you get the full 72 hours. At 2 flags, you decrease the 72 hours by 5% (68.4 hours). This keeps decreasing by 5% per flag until you get to 21 flags, where you get NO OFFLINE PROTECTION. Its a dynamic number, so as your flags get claimed the protection could kick in so long as you've been online recently enough. Is roughly 24 hours enough offline protection for you? Then stop at 14 flags (25.2 hours). Easy.

I think this would solve a ton of problems in the current PVE claim flag environment. Obviously, I'd still like to see flags limited in other ways too, but this would be a good start. Make the bigger companies and land hogs have to think twice about claiming what they can't defend, and introduce some actual competition back into the PVE game. No more too big to fail!

 

Thoughts?

[Fluffypawns 4]

well idea is good but the other thing is  i have a base i would like to take over as i own no land  and iv been told the guy in this base quit playing and not been online for a long time . i have been here now 2 days with my flag poll down to contest But it shows no Timers  or anything like that + the Guys flag says Build Allowance  :  Everyone    seeing hes not been online in a long time BUT you canot place anything down  . from what i can see he has put down Multiple  Patches of Foundations Before leaving and now  no one can claim it .  That should be done Different that 72 hour Time line .  

[BaldingEagle 2]

He's probably asleep inside the base somewhere. Sleeping bodies contest claim flags. I've read different things about how long it will take before you can finally take over in that case, so I don't know. I had the same problem, as the territory I own was also from an inactive. He was asleep in his base for over a week before finally logging in and joining that megaguild. I tried claiming every day, no luck.

The flag allowance : Everyone is the default setting, so since he's not been online he hasn't changed it. But the building on neutral flags isn't live yet as far as I'm aware, so you can't actually build anything quite yet.

[Rhah 0]

59 minutes ago, Fluffypawns said:

well idea is good but the other thing is  i have a base i would like to take over as i own no land  and iv been told the guy in this base quit playing and not been online for a long time . i have been here now 2 days with my flag poll down to contest But it shows no Timers  or anything like that + the Guys flag says Build Allowance  :  Everyone    seeing hes not been online in a long time BUT you canot place anything down  . from what i can see he has put down Multiple  Patches of Foundations Before leaving and now  no one can claim it .  That should be done Different that 72 hour Time line .  

I agree. I've got one claim on one island, I'd like to expand to allow more room for building structures for the rest of the company. I can't because one of my two neighbors is asleep inside his house and hasn't been online in over a week. It's apparent he has no intention of continuing to play, but I have to limit my enjoyment because someone else gave up? The system needs a lot of work still to make it fair across the board.

[killer8529 1]

my bigest issue with the current system is the fact that the flags go up based on a ten mintue timer so right now i am trying to claim a single place that the owners are have left the game and since there is a six hour wait taking there flag down i was like ok all good but the moment you get contested for like 2 mins there goes HOURS of work waiting its fucking rediculess i have been at the same spot for two days and still havnt been able to claim it for if a single person walks near it its resets like WTH like i am all good with the current system IF they make it that it goes up when being contested at the same rate it goes down other wise you can be there for days weeks

 

[UDO 361]

3 hours ago, BaldingEagle said:

So I play solo on NA PVE, and I'm bordered by one of these top 5 megaguilds - they control almost every square inch of the island I'm on (and many more...) and tax everything 30%. There has been a lot of discussion about limiting claim flags - which I agree with, and have some thoughts about for another post - but I've not seen much discussion about the 72 hour offline protection. It does appear that they have finally fixed that in recent patches because claim flags are auto-refreshing their timers when people come online (without having to replace them). I do wish they'd let us see our own timers, but I digress.

One of the serious problems with this system that I've noticed is PVE flags have basically become permanent. Don't get me wrong - I like the offline protection idea, and would like to see it expanded to allow for things like RL vacations in the future (maybe with a material cost to buy X offline time that also expires when you log back in). But the current form is in severe need of balancing, as it means that flags will never be taken unless someone basically stops playing the game. This problem is magnified with larger companies, since they have so many folks rotating in and out online that the flag timer is always topped off. Essentially the bigger your guild is, the more permanent your flags are. What are the odds that a megaguild completely dissolves or every one of its members stops coming online for 3 days? 

Now play this out in the long run. Assuming no server wipe and several megaguilds who keep a presence in-game, eventually all the smaller companies and solo players who quit or merge become part of megaguild territory. Since the megaguilds cannot be competed with by having any of their territory stolen - ever - they just keep growing. Eventually the whole map would be consumed between a handful of different companies who control everything and "allow" other players to build on claimed land... at 30% tax of course. Is this really the vision the devs have for this game? I don't think so, especially after reading several posts lately with direct comments from those same devs about supporting solos and small companies.

I will concede that I don't know exactly how the refreshing on the flag timer works. It is not clear if its simply you log in and they all refresh, or all the ones in your zone refresh, or if you have to walk through the radius, or even if its a personal proximity radius, etc... I will say I've noted different timers on different flags at opposite ends of my territory, from the same megaguild. This makes me suspect its either proximity or actually walking through the radius. That's good, but not enough in my opinion. Just like the recent patch attempting to address this by decreasing the counterclaim timer proportional to the number of flags owned - that's great, but I can't even put DOWN a claim flag while there's an offline protection timer that keeps getting topped off in place.

 

So what do I propose? I would put in place a system that decreases the total offline protection by 5% per flag over 1. 

In other words, at 1 flag, you get the full 72 hours. At 2 flags, you decrease the 72 hours by 5% (68.4 hours). This keeps decreasing by 5% per flag until you get to 21 flags, where you get NO OFFLINE PROTECTION. Its a dynamic number, so as your flags get claimed the protection could kick in so long as you've been online recently enough. Is roughly 24 hours enough offline protection for you? Then stop at 14 flags (25.2 hours). Easy.

I think this would solve a ton of problems in the current PVE claim flag environment. Obviously, I'd still like to see flags limited in other ways too, but this would be a good start. Make the bigger companies and land hogs have to think twice about claiming what they can't defend, and introduce some actual competition back into the PVE game. No more too big to fail!

 

Thoughts?

no people have holiday and real life this isnt a job ,,

 

timers refresh when u enter the area the original flag placer only 

 

3 days as long as you are active is low enough , it is faster to take over a flag the more they have anyway 

 

if they are playing the game then they keep the flags , stop fixating on the flags , ARK had same issue but pillars ,

 

go explore more than 5-6 grids from freeport , ive been to a lot of areas and could have claimed planty of additional spots away from my main base .. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by UDO

[Swap2018 1]

Our company had 3 or 4 flag not too badly placed .. We left two days at sea and the company next to us to prick most .. They leave us only one flag .. I do not understand how they have been able to claim as quickly and in addition we in return we do not manage to claim above ... Knowing that the Timer of the flag has come down to 0 it to continue counting counting in the negatives .... That it is the problem? Would it not be possible to reduce the possibility of claiming the Company ...

Small company like we are really miserable next to some ... It becomes almost anti play sorry to say it ... The guys on 10 boats of which 1 galleon and they still stole our territories ...

Edited January 11, 2019 by Swap2018

[UDO 361]

it gets to minus 249k before its claimable ,u must have not gotten back in time ..

 

also the flag under attack message is far too short if u turn away for a second u can miss it ,

 

there needs to be visual flashing icon on screen to let us know a flag is under attack with a message so we know which ones ...

[Swap2018 1]

We made a big dozen islands we started in the beginning of the game but a few days after its release .. More one place has no possibility to be claimed! everything is taken, even lowless areas are already filled by big company. and whatever it is in PVE or PVP.

We always favor big companies a little like in real life. It's pretty sad because it does not motivate me or my company to continue to fight for a small piece of land ....

Edited January 11, 2019 by Swap2018

[Mahakmar 21]

well sigh we have a claim we been wrestling with long time now , it takes 6 bloody hours to take it -.- , the owner has gone off/stopped playing , no sleepers around but 6 hours of well staring at the wall, and people keep buzzing the area resetting the timer

[BaldingEagle 2]

5 hours ago, killer8529 said:

my bigest issue with the current system is the fact that the flags go up based on a ten mintue timer so right now i am trying to claim a single place that the owners are have left the game and since there is a six hour wait taking there flag down i was like ok all good but the moment you get contested for like 2 mins there goes HOURS of work waiting its fucking rediculess i have been at the same spot for two days and still havnt been able to claim it for if a single person walks near it its resets like WTH like i am all good with the current system IF they make it that it goes up when being contested at the same rate it goes down other wise you can be there for days weeks

 

I agree, the random people wandering through is crazy. It should be company / owner only, or perhaps if they put down their own flag to compete with yours.

1 hour ago, Mahakmar said:

well sigh we have a claim we been wrestling with long time now , it takes 6 bloody hours to take it -.- , the owner has gone off/stopped playing , no sleepers around but 6 hours of well staring at the wall, and people keep buzzing the area resetting the timer

Wow, since I've not been able to see how long the counterclaim times have been increased yet, that's an eye-opener. 6 hours is way too much, especially considering that randoms cause it to reset. I would say 1 hour max and scale down from there based on company flag numbers. 

[BaldingEagle 2]

3 hours ago, UDO said:

no people have holiday and real life this isnt a job ,,

Yup, which is why I said the following...

7 hours ago, BaldingEagle said:

Don't get me wrong - I like the offline protection idea, and would like to see it expanded to allow for things like RL vacations in the future (maybe with a material cost to buy X offline time that also expires when you log back in).

Per my suggestion, you still get the 3 days at 1 flag, and close to it with a couple more. I work 5 days a week, own a home, and am a single parent, yet I find a few minutes in the morning before work to log in and make sure my claims are reset. I only have 1 land flag and 2 ocean ones, as a solo player. Under my suggested change just don't bite off more than you can chew and you'll be fine. If you want to claim everything, be prepared to no-life the game if you want to keep it.

3 hours ago, UDO said:

timers refresh when u enter the area the original flag placer only 

Interesting if this is how it works, but I'm not certain this is right; I'd like to see something from the devs or details from those who tested it (which would be difficult to do since we can't see our own / company flag timers). I find it doubtful that it is a personal thing (original flag placer) vs just a company thing. Either way, this doesn't assuage my original concern about these large / megaguilds having territory you cannot compete with.

3 hours ago, UDO said:

3 days as long as you are active is low enough , it is faster to take over a flag the more they have anyway

Nope, which is why I made this post obviously. The more people there are in a company, the greater the odds are that somebody is online. A scenario where nobody in a megaguild is online for a solid 3 days is basically impossible unless every member quits, so I guess we just never get to compete with them over land? That seems fair.

As I already noted about the new counterclaim timers:

7 hours ago, BaldingEagle said:

Just like the recent patch attempting to address this by decreasing the counterclaim timer proportional to the number of flags owned - that's great, but I can't even put DOWN a claim flag while there's an offline protection timer that keeps getting topped off in place.

 It doesn't matter if its faster. I can't put down a flag for 3 days to even try it, and the megaguild always has someone online in that period.

4 hours ago, UDO said:

if they are playing the game then they keep the flags , stop fixating on the flags , ARK had same issue but pillars

Again, read my original post. I explained the issue with fair detail. It is about having the ability to compete and putting some balance in the current flag claiming system - specifically in PVE where your options are limited / none. Based on the sheer number of posts I've seen on these forums and the Steam ones about claiming flags, I'd say a sizeable portion of the playerbase would agree with me that the claiming system needs to be reworked. 

Never mentioned ARK in my post, but referencing another game which had a badly broken mechanic which never got patched (and one could point to this game on Lawless for this too) is hardly helping your argument.

4 hours ago, UDO said:

go explore more than 5-6 grids from freeport , ive been to a lot of areas and could have claimed planty of additional spots away from my main base

Nice assumption there. I have explored, and I enjoy it by the way . I didn't complain about finding unclaimed land to take, nor did I complain that my base isn't big enough or needs to have more land to be playable etc... I have an issue with the offline claim protection, specifically that it's not balanced against massive companies and prevents any competition. Granted I don't like having one of these as a greedy neighbor, but mine was a constructive post (thus the suggestion part...) not a complaint. 

Also, I would note that there are many freeports in the game. Pretty sure every grid in the game is within the "5-6 grids from freeport" you mentioned, lol.

4 hours ago, UDO said:

it gets to minus 249k before its claimable ,u must have not gotten back in time ..

 

also the flag under attack message is far too short if u turn away for a second u can miss it ,

 

there needs to be visual flashing icon on screen to let us know a flag is under attack with a message so we know which ones ...

Agree with this. The flag needs to be marked in an obvious fashion on the map and above the actual flag itself. The company log should also show claim attempts / status in it so you can at least reference this or see issues that occurred while you were offline.