krazmuze

This is why I predict that WPE will be on official servers.    When people are leaving because people are leaving, with WPE  some of those people will stay and engage in the increased amount of WPE that results from people leaving, rather than leaving themselves.  Yes there is less PVP but something is better than nothing.

9 hours ago, Realist said:

Awesome. Very good points

Or I could be wrong and they are not doing crossplay, and new islands and WPE are only for XBOX and they are not wiping official.   Because that is certainly another way you could read these tea leaves.... 

That would certainly be mean if they tested it on PC but not released it there!

4 hours ago, Senkoau said:

Also if I change NPCShipNumMult from 0.3 to 0 would that get rid of them entirely, if so would it also affect merchant ships please?

Yep (on a freshly wiped server) and nope the merchant ships are done elsewhere as they are on a defined path.

Yes there are lots of copy  paste to do this on the official map - you could also download the island editor tool and do it more graphically but I think that ends up being even more work.

Another way to go is just get a mod for speed sails and fly right past them.   But that makes it harder to engage them when you do want to fight.   You have to fight them if you want more than just freeport sailors manning your ships and better blueprints for your ship.

Caveat I did this for our unofficial dedicated server, but I would presume SP works the same.

PTR replaces copy paste islands which would require a wipe if released to live.    

XBOX is coming sooner than later.   If Crossplay was going to be done, it only makes sense to wipe.

It does not make sense to add wild pirates to official and force newcomers to have to fight NPC to take an empty island when old players did not have to.  Better to wipe and make it so everyone has to do that.

Conjecture based on these facts?     The new islands and WPE are ready for when they wipe the servers for Crossplay

treasure maps are optimized to be done with aoe swiping bears as they rise out of the ground.    devs could care less if you want a realistic swashbuckling fight.  They attempted to get ARK players to switch to Atlas by making this a taming game, did not work since Ark put out a new map.

The damned really will not aggro your raft unless you harass them, their AI aggro increases with the size of your ship.   However it is single player so you can mod that if you want. 

 Back up you changes for when the server updates

find ServerGrid.json in your steam folder

in each grid just before this line

      "sublevels": [

add these lines...

      "ServerCustomDatas1": "NPCShipDifficultyMult,NPCShipDifficultyLerp,NPCShipNumMult,FloatsamQualityMultiplier",
      "ServerCustomDatas2": "0.25,4.0,0.3,0.35",

What that does is makes the damned the inverse of what they are in the powerstone grids.    Less difficult, less aggro, less numerous and less rewarding flotsam (optional you could increase flotsam if you want)

 

WPE (Wild Pirate Encampments) was last noticed that it is coming to SP/coop and unofficials last month.   That is your pirate villages right there, not sure why it was not released yet other than status quo for these devs....

as for decorations lots of good mods to use, as  that is not a priority for the devs - the only cosmetics they plan on is skins.

A PvEvP server will not hire additional GM staff to make sure everyone is not breaking and exploiting rules.   So that means new code that cannot be bugged and exploited to make sure everyone has to play by the rules to deal with PVE/PVP integration issues when those rulesets was originally intended for seperate servers.

The facts are as this thread shows is they did the nuke option for spam removal because they do not want the GMs doing this work.

So I stand by my point that a PvPvE server only works with strongarm admins, which is work that Grapeshot does not want to do - they prefer you go to unofficial for that.

15 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

1. No, that gets deleted.

By...strong arm admins?

3 hours ago, Mardoqueo said:

The last MMO i played was ESO. Huge fan of ES series. ESO did a lot of what the OP suggested. There was an area that was PVP and an area the was PVE. 

And Atlas devs surely wish they could have the 1402 people that played Oblivion in the last hour.     Why are these people not playing ESO since it covers the same provinces - you can go visit the capital again see the prequel version of it with modern graphics.      The reason is that you are forced into PVP if you want to tread the same ground as Oblivion.   

I think the devs realized that there are many not willing to play into a forced interaction environment, their reasons for doing so are not considered invalid to the devs because they can see that simply forcing choices on people was not working.  It is why they took  time out to get SP/coop versions working - by their own statement they realized the MMO PVP or PVE design of the game will never be attractive to a certain player.   

So they could impact sales by making a subset game  that ignored the fact that ARK did not get so popular because it was only a forced interaction MMO, or they could port over the SP/coop login screen knowing it will only increase sales.  Those who want only single player or cooperative environment are not going to play other games so the theorycrafting that a forced interaction server will cover the entire populations playstyle is not going to work - the devs know this. 

Now they may very well take interest in the topic and add a PvEvP server option - but since they know that it will cost them PVE and PVP players they have to consider the cost of forcing them into PvEvP interaction or keeping PVE and PVP seperated servers for those that want the always PVP or always PVE playstyles.

Since they already made the choice to expand their game into SP/coop - I think it is pretty clear they are backing away from forcing everyone to interact on the same server if they want to play the game.

The reality is if you want such a server - point them to the successful PvEvP unofficials and convince them to add that as a server type.   My inclination is they will not do it because such unofficial servers really only work with strongarm admins enforcing the rules, but if you think you can convince them that it can be done with stretching the thin admin staff they have....by all means lobby for it.    But as Colonies/Empire experiment shows they was willing to give both modes a try and see what the silent majority actually played disregarding vocal minorities.

If you stick to the approach of insisting it must replace all ways of playing the game - then you have already lost the argument and will never get the mode you want.  If the mode is so awesome then everyone will flock to it - and the devs will have no choice but to close the empty unused PVP and PVE servers and strip out the SP/coop code as a waste of resources.

The fact is if your argument is that the only way to get people to play the mode is forced choice, then you have already lost a large portion of the player base.

58 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

Complex but it could work.

actually it would be kinda cool, instead of my "base claim" radius you had a certain number of connected hexes instead, you could shape your own area.

But realistically I can't see them doing something like this, and you'll always get some prat that makes their base one huge line of hexes all along the coast.  

Thats one of the advantages of a circle, even almost touching you are far enough apart.

Except when we had circles the prats would circle the island with their ocean claims - blocking you from shipyarding. Even if they did away with sea claims and made it so land claims can be placed wherever a shipyard can - it is still a problem that noobs get encircled before they save up to claim their potential.

So getting trapped inland is not a problem unique to hexes.   It is why any game with claiming really only works if there is an MMO admin staff.

And that is not a problem in PVP instead encircling is a valid war strategy - used IRL theatres of combat.

4 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

PvP areas would have more abundant resources but going there is not a requirement, instead... its a risk you take for the sake of convince, or large profit.

What you really said...

"PVE area would have less resources and less profit."

Sorry all your pure PVE players just left your ideal PVP/PVE server.  The entire point for PVE players is to dominate the trade markets using only PVE means, your server would mean only PVP can dominate the trade markets.

It only appeals to PvPvE players - not PVE players.

12 minutes ago, globytheoldpirate said:

Every pvpers will build on PvE zones, so can't be raid.

But is that a bad thing on a PvPvE server that is themed for pirates?    If indeed PVP side had more risk reward forcing people to leave their PVE bases to win the game - then there would be way more naval action - which is what the game should be about rather than  land raids.

10 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

 and you would end up with undesirable hexes and building right up against an edge as the rest is up a cliff etc.

But the other option of non overlapping circles means you cannot claim something because it would overlap somebody else even though the area you want is not claimed.

If you make it large enough to reach the shipyards on the front radius - that means you are claiming the back radius that you did not want - and paying more for it or worse being blocked because someone else leaves on the shore over the mountain due to the many narrow islets in the game.

Circle claims leaves unwanted claims and unused gaps.

The hex problem is solved using finer hexes - make them small enough and cheap enough that 1g (or whatever basis is sound gameplay) is enough for the starter hut to logout before getting into shipyards.  Then the neighboring hex claims can be taken over as you expand (on PVP you might have to fight for them - on PVE you have to make real estate trade deals).    Or you grind out the gold up faster than the rest of th server to reserve the entire island for your clan - or you just pay up front for the corner of the island that you know will be your limit to expansion.

PvPvE players will absolutely go for the incentive risk of PVP even if they can safely base in PVE.   Where you are confused is thinking this applies to all PVE players.    A PvPvE player is NOT the same player as a PvE player.    The instant you say well no....the two PVE/PVP splits are not actually identical - the PVE player has to come to the PVP side for better risk reward - that pure PVE player leaves the server and goes find a pure PVE server.   It is because the game mode has to be designed so that the PVE side is lower risk reward than the higher risk reward PVP side - if not designed that way it fails as a PvPvE server.   These game modes always realize the PVP itself is not enough risk reward, and they design it so that better mats, mobs, bosses, dungeons etc are on the PVP side to force PVE into having to go there if they want the entire game experience.

2 hours ago, Egon von Sturmberg said:

Pve players dont want to fight for things like resources and acting as the creeps for pvp players.. thats the point. Most people in our company are 50+ years old and having childs and grand childs do you think a old lady, who is coming online on pve to build her ship and sailing around want to have a battle for resources? forget it.

 

Like i said, its a win win. PvP would become more active more populated and pve would win the option to having the war aspect not running around and getting chased by a 16 year old eric,who has nothing to do afterschool as searching for pve players.

So if you draw the lines so it is perfectly safe for PVE player side - the only way to do that is a duplicated server half that are identical so there is zero reason for PVE to ever have to ever go onto the PVP side because trade and advancement is self contained within the PVE side.   The problem is that PVP wolves cannot exist without their PVE sheep, PVP do not actually want to fight against themselves for fear of being destroyed.    

Put up this two identical half servers I guarantee after the first week there will be PVP saying there needs to be incentive for PVE to come to the PVP side beyond just PVP itself - because no PVE are coming over to the PVP side.   That is why the design of PvPvE servers always makes the PVP side the higher risk/reward side.   That is the way Eve Online works, it is how Mortal Online worked, as well as how the unofficial Atlas PvPvE servers have set themselves up.   It comes down to the fact that you cannot have predators without any prey.

It is perfectly fine to set up such a PvPvE server - but stop trying to claim it is exactly the same as a full on PVP server or full on PVE server.  Those of us who have been around long enough know it is an entirely different gameplay style from both - a perfectly valid server option to have for those who enjoy it.  But it is not the same as seperate servers no matter how much the wolfs try to pretend to the sheep that it is.

A PvPvE server that is designed with the lines drawn so that everything is on each side is by design a very bad PvPvE - for the very reason that it does not promote conflict and instead promotes stalemates.   If everybody can do everything they want without conflict, then it is a PvE server and all the PVP players will complain that they want the lines redrawn so that people are fighting over resources and all the dungeons and discoveries.    

Clearly you do not understand the atlas design that requires every player to have access to every grid to advance, it is why it makes for great PVP because it inherently creates conflict.

trade with PVPers and get involved in wars politics is exactly what PVE does not want.  Being restricted to trade waters and safe zones is not what PVE wants.

You are not a PVE player if that is what you want - you are a PvPvE player.  Nothing wrong with that label in promoting your idea - there are many PVE that would simply not play on a PvPvE server.

The reality is you need PVP, PVE, PvPvE, SP and coop to fit all playstyles.    Feel free to promote your playstyle and champion your servers, but I think you can do that without denigrating other playstyles.

6 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

All you would have to do is stick to Empire tiles or tiles belonging to Sovereign Trade companies. Unless you are at war with them or their Navy you are free to sail. It's kinda the way EvE Online works, but you cant be suicide ganked.

But that is the PVx design that PVE players do not want.    All of the PVx by design proclaim you are safe as long as you stay over here, but soon as you cross that line you get ganked.   But the lines are drawn such that you would want to cross them  - and Atlas is by design the same way.   Advanced blueprints require you to travel the world to get all the resources and all the stones/essences - which means you will get involved in the wars.  This is a designed to create conflict resulting in PVP.

While I support claims in general - restricting to one claim only works on a map that is designed for it.      Many beaches have very shallow wide harbors so it is not possible to cover your docks and your land base with one claim.    This map is better to have non overlapping claims that expand where you want, I personally prefer hexgrids for their long legacy in war games that they allow more organic expansion in the direction you need and not in the direction you do not want.  Other games use square grids or resizable/recentered rectangles - but they are more land based with every grid being useful rather than shoreline based like Atlas. 

PVE/PVP hybrid maps only appeal to PVP players that want to retreat to PVE safety, as well as PVE players that might want to get into an occasional naval fight.     

It has zero appeal to the pure PVE player that wants nothing to do with PVP, but such hybrid servers force that by design. 

It has zero appeal to the pure PVP player that want no possibility of PVE retreat in time or space.   

It is not possible to avoid PVP on a hybrid map - because they all promote PVP by placing the best resources beyond the PVP gate.    That means you either have to do the PVP yourself to get the best stuff, or play in the PVP wars by hiring mercenaries at a higher price.

So those promoting it need to recognize it is a valid server option, but it is not the end of all servers that will unite PVP and PVE.   It is already technically possible for Atlas to have this server type, since PVE/PVP is a grid not a map setting.

5 hours ago, Tiberius_theron said:

The only thing that could remotely save Atlas would be the ability for customers to host the whole map unofficially without having to spend thousands of dollars per server/map. And that's just never going to happen due to poor planning on the development teams part.

Yeah to save the game they should make a non-dedicated mode where you could host the whole map unofficially without having to spend thousand of dollars per server/map by running it on your game computer and making it so you could invite your friends.

They should also put the game on sale beyond just the steam summer sale so that those who stopped playing unofficials can invite all their friends to come play on their non-dedicated coop server.

Yeah that is never going to happen...

Let me read Captains log from FEB for you where it clearly states it will release in the first megapatch.   I will leave it to you to read the other captains logs where they gave new dates, much in the same manner as the last captains log.

The mega content update to drop in March will also include an alpha release of ISO Blackwood (from the creator of the popular ARK mod, ISO Crystal Isles). This will be a standalone map which players can host on a single server and still experience all that ATLAS has to offer!

Like ARK I would presume the use Single Player option is modifying the baseline 1.0 that is in the options which you can then further adjust on the single player screen, indeed lets have them document that as you can play Single Player with that turned off.  

blackwood was next week five months ago....they have continuously announced it as coming.   

I would hope WPE to be procedural rather than hand placed settlements so it works on other maps.  They did say it could be used on unofficial.

treasure maps arrows no longer work, if grapeshot comes to their senses that might get changed back.  bear swipes is your best option for that.