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Deeks

Proposed Sailing Changes

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I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but a couple points of feedback that I think really need to be implemented into the game.

1. Increased Versatility for smaller ships - To bring sailing more in like with real ship dynamics, smaller ships should move a lot faster & be more maneuverable compared to larger ships.  I feel like in the current system tweaking the weight scales would get the job done as that's what slowed these bigger ships down anyways.  In terms of gameplay it would give use to smaller ships purpose which would A) Make the game more fun for smaller crews B) Encourage variations in fleet make-ups by giving smaller ships use in various roles (scouting, transporting).  The current design of "more sails = more speed" makes the sailing feel silly & doesn't offer much variations to what ships can do.

2. The storms really need to be toned down.  At their base form, the cyclones are just way overdone.  If there was 1 or 2 at a time it wouldn't be too much, but any time a storm hits there is regularly 10+ cyclones visible at all times.  I think it would be an excellent idea to A) severely reduce the amount of cyclones and maybe even create a system that allows the huge waves to cause damage to ships if they hit them in a certain way, or B) Create a storm category system where a minor rainstorm may not produce a single cyclone & a larger rainstorm might produce tons.

Cheers to Atlas & the awesome game that it is.

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1 minute ago, Deeks said:

I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but a couple points of feedback that I think really need to be implemented into the game.

1. Increased Versatility for smaller ships - To bring sailing more in like with real ship dynamics, smaller ships should move a lot faster & be more maneuverable compared to larger ships.  I feel like in the current system tweaking the weight scales would get the job done as that's what slowed these bigger ships down anyways.  In terms of gameplay it would give use to smaller ships purpose which would A) Make the game more fun for smaller crews B) Encourage variations in fleet make-ups by giving smaller ships use in various roles (scouting, transporting).  The current design of "more sails = more speed" makes the sailing feel silly & doesn't offer much variations to what ships can do.

2. The storms really need to be toned down.  At their base form, the cyclones are just way overdone.  If there was 1 or 2 at a time it wouldn't be too much, but any time a storm hits there is regularly 10+ cyclones visible at all times.  I think it would be an excellent idea to A) severely reduce the amount of cyclones and maybe even create a system that allows the huge waves to cause damage to ships if they hit them in a certain way, or B) Create a storm category system where a minor rainstorm may not produce a single cyclone & a larger rainstorm might produce tons.

Cheers to Atlas & the awesome game that it is.

Not sure that reality of how ships work in real life should be brought into this this game. If you want to look at it this way, the bigger the sailing ship the faster. That is how it works in real life. You are probably thinking bigger is slower, because in modern times, these are not sailing ships, they are power boats, and it does mostly work that way for those. I also expected the smaller ships to be faster than they are. They are more maneuverable, but I suspect in PvP, the galleon is going to win almost every fight with a smaller ship because it can out gun and also goes faster.

We do need more ship roles. I've said before, there should be a non-armed type, but that brings in all kinds of possible exploits, so probably isn't going to happen. 

Totally agree with you on the storms. A storm should be a local occurrence in one location in each grid and you can just go around it or out run it. It could move, but slowly. It should not be the current mini-game that you have to wait out until it stops raining.

Love the game too 🙂

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On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 3:18 PM, wildbill said:

Not sure that reality of how ships work in real life should be brought into this this game. If you want to look at it this way, the bigger the sailing ship the faster. That is how it works in real life. You are probably thinking bigger is slower, because in modern times, these are not sailing ships, they are power boats, and it does mostly work that way for those. I also expected the smaller ships to be faster than they are. They are more maneuverable, but I suspect in PvP, the galleon is going to win almost every fight with a smaller ship because it can out gun and also goes faster.

We do need more ship roles. I've said before, there should be a non-armed type, but that brings in all kinds of possible exploits, so probably isn't going to happen. 

Totally agree with you on the storms. A storm should be a local occurrence in one location in each grid and you can just go around it or out run it. It could move, but slowly. It should not be the current mini-game that you have to wait out until it stops raining.

Love the game too 🙂

 I don't want full on realism (I like dropping my anchor while at full speed to instantly stop!), but I think bringing ships in line with how they would actually work would not only provide realism, but it would also make the game more fun & create a lot more variation.  Smaller ships def move faster than larger ships, no matter how they are propelled, and I think bringing that more in line with actual ship dynamics could add a lot to the game.

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1 hour ago, Deeks said:

 I don't want full on realism (I like dropping my anchor while at full speed to instantly stop!), but I think bringing ships in line with how they would actually work would not only provide realism, but it would also make the game more fun & create a lot more variation.  Smaller ships def move faster than larger ships, no matter how they are propelled, and I think bringing that more in line with actual ship dynamics could add a lot to the game.

OK, wasn't going to go into how sailing ships work (I do know, I've sailed like 10 different types of sailing boat and read many a book no how it works), but it does appear you are lacking in some basic ship design knowledge. You can easily Google all of this information, BTW.

There is something called hull speed for displacement style ships. All sailing ships except a few more modern ones like catamarans and the ones with the underwater wings are displacement hulls. The longer the ship at the water line, the higher the hull speed. Above the hull speed, it takes a huge amount of energy (wind power) to make the boat go any faster. Modern ships avoid this by using a planning hull, but sail boats like in this game are not planning hulls. So here are a few facts:

1.34 * (square root of length of ship at waterline) = hull speed (pretty much the maximum speed of ship)

So a 36 foot = 1.34 * 6 = 8 knots

A 144 foot ship is 1.34 * 12 = 16.08 knots

So the large (long) ship goes twice as fast. So that is reality. That is how it works. So that is why I don't think we need to bring reality into this game. Once you want realism, you can't pick and chose which real life things you want and which you don't. So lets just make a game that is fun to play, we can ignore reality, since this is a fantasy game anyway, it isn't based on any real historical or actual real life stuff.

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34 minutes ago, wildbill said:

OK, wasn't going to go into how sailing ships work (I do know, I've sailed like 10 different types of sailing boat and read many a book no how it works), but it does appear you are lacking in some basic ship design knowledge. You can easily Google all of this information, BTW.

There is something called hull speed for displacement style ships. All sailing ships except a few more modern ones like catamarans and the ones with the underwater wings are displacement hulls. The longer the ship at the water line, the higher the hull speed. Above the hull speed, it takes a huge amount of energy (wind power) to make the boat go any faster. Modern ships avoid this by using a planning hull, but sail boats like in this game are not planning hulls. So here are a few facts:

1.34 * (square root of length of ship at waterline) = hull speed (pretty much the maximum speed of ship)

So a 36 foot = 1.34 * 6 = 8 knots

A 144 foot ship is 1.34 * 12 = 16.08 knots

So the large (long) ship goes twice as fast. So that is reality. That is how it works. So that is why I don't think we need to bring reality into this game. Once you want realism, you can't pick and chose which real life things you want and which you don't. So lets just make a game that is fun to play, we can ignore reality, since this is a fantasy game anyway, it isn't based on any real historical or actual real life stuff.

Length is one thing, size is another thing.  It sounds like you're referring to ships of a similar size but different hull lengths, but a 100 ton schooner will be much faster than a 1000 ton galleon, there's just no way around it.  I'd hope they continue to expand the types of ships to allow for more types of boats like speed cutters, there is so much untapped potential, but I think with the current dynamics of sailing it wont matter.  Ships come in all shapes & sizes, but the galleons in game are like 15x the size of schooners.  There is no way they would be faster than a a schooner & yes; in a game you can pick & choose what elements of reality and fantasy you have.  It's my personal opinion that implementing this element of sailing will improve the game.  You don't have to share that opinion, but you are wrong about the dynamics of sailing.  While you are wrong, I'll respect your right to be happily wrong.

 

I'm not a sailor, but I did stay at a holiday inn...

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46 minutes ago, Deeks said:

Length is one thing, size is another thing.  It sounds like you're referring to ships of a similar size but different hull lengths, but a 100 ton schooner will be much faster than a 1000 ton galleon, there's just no way around it.  I'd hope they continue to expand the types of ships to allow for more types of boats like speed cutters, there is so much untapped potential, but I think with the current dynamics of sailing it wont matter.  Ships come in all shapes & sizes, but the galleons in game are like 15x the size of schooners.  There is no way they would be faster than a a schooner & yes; in a game you can pick & choose what elements of reality and fantasy you have.  It's my personal opinion that implementing this element of sailing will improve the game.  You don't have to share that opinion, but you are wrong about the dynamics of sailing.  While you are wrong, I'll respect your right to be happily wrong.

 

I'm not a sailor, but I did stay at a holiday inn...

OK, I'll let you stay blissfully ignorant. I'm not wrong though, they galleon is longer on the water line than the schooner, it will be faster. Weight has nothing to do with it. A displacement hull does not lift the weight, the water floats both ships equally well. It isn't the friction of the water that slows it down, it is the wave that the ship creates that does that. It is complicated, but it has to do with the physics of the wave created and the distance between wave crests at different speeds. If you can see sail boats out on the water, you will always see the longer one passing the shorter one, no way around that. Ignore all the power boats, these are not power boats. Power boats often use planing hulls, not displacement hulls.

Yes, lets just leave reality out of this. Just base any suggestions on what would make the game more interesting, since we definitely need that 🙂

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