PeglegTheAngry

4 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

Unless you want to do the powerstones, or collect high level tames or masses of mats, which are all in pvp

You didn't read my proposal, clearly.
 

5 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

 if you're PvE, all you have to do is play the game on half the map or less and it's all good, unless the pvp guys claim up all the pve land and wage their smacktalk keyboard warfare all over your general chat. 

Uhh... what? You'd get far more than half the map. Not that you need that much to begin with. Everything you need to make mythics is within 5 tiles of you if you know what islands to look for. There's only a handful of them, and they are placed so you don't have to travel to far... my goodness. Smack talk? You can leave chat you know.

8 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

So let me get this straight..on a merged server, the pvp players get the whole map, get to play the type of game they like, get pve safe zones for when they want to play pve style or collect mats, breed tames, etc without interference,  pve players to gank whenever one of them is unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time...sounds perfect. 

You don't have it straight.

 

8 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

What do pve players get?  They've lost at least half the map, they get shoved into the toxic environment they don't like, they lose access to the best mats, tames, & quest zones in the game.  Sure, they get to make boats for the pvp players.  (Something you seem excited about)   What else?  Tell them what they've won, Johnny! 

That's a very toxic reply for someone who doesn't want to be exposed to toxic environments. I feel like you might be projecting a bit.

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Pve players dont want to fight for things like resources and acting as the creeps for pvp players.. thats the point. Most people in our company are 50+ years old and having childs and grand childs do you think a old lady, who is coming online on pve to build her ship and sailing around want to have a battle for resources? forget it.


Like i said, its a win win. PvP would become more active more populated and pve would win the option to having the war aspect not running around and getting chased by a 16 year old eric,who has nothing to do afterschool as searching for pve players.

Exactly. All of the critical stuff in the game would be accessible in the PvE zones, with no reason to cross into dangerous water. The PvP players would have a place to come trade and have some positive interaction. PvE players would benefit because they would see income, exotic resources, BPs  that are useless to PvP , but useful to PvE, perhaps even the chance to participate in a war without it coming to their door.

I don't know why it is so hard to imagine the two playstyles co-existing.

5 minutes ago, krazmuze said:

A PvPvE server that is designed with the lines drawn so that everything is on each side is by design a very bad PvPvE - for the very reason that it does not promote conflict and instead promotes stalemates.   If everybody can do everything they want without conflict, then it is a PvE server and all the PVP players will complain that they want the lines redrawn so that people are fighting over resources and all the dungeons and discoveries.    

 

Personal incredulity is not an argument against something.

3 minutes ago, sgzeroone said:

When you design/develope a game with pvp and pve elements combined, you have all kinds of unintended problems.  Best example is Eve online.  PVEer's, Industrialist and New players suffered at the hands of Wardecs in Eve online from greifer corps.  I mean come on hulk-a-geddon?  Yeah balanced pvp my ass?  High sec suicide ganking?  Don't get me wrong the early days of Eve were great, but what it has evolved into is just terrible. 

If the developers of Atlas are truly molding their design to something like Eve, I would probably not be as interested in this game as I am.   I'm just here to explore the world created by this team and build a nice little ship to sail the sea's.  If I truly wanted to pvp it would not be in this type of game.  Plenty of other games out their for my pvp fix.

The problems with EvE Online are meant to be there. I imagine the devs would keep PvE zones completely PvE... as detailed.... in my post.... Did you read it?
I guess you really can't please everybody!

 

3 minutes ago, UnknownSystemError said:

Because like anyone else who is here I wanted them to be good. I wanted a fun game I could play with my friends, sail around, build stuff, kill pirate ships. I sat through months of the EA apologists saying "It will get better! Just you wait!" to watch every development decision either be put out with the intention of fostering a dying offline raiding PVP system and nerfs to systems in PVE just because applying them to both types of servers was "too hard" You try to shortbus me, but really the whole "I wants mah pvp brah, you will be my content whether you like it or not!" has been proven time and time again to be the death of a game with potential. WIldstar and the "We are hardcore, gitgud noob!" crowd are where developer after developer keep reading the market wrong. Fine to develop a niche game if you have the money to throw away on it, but if you want something sustainable you need a more mainstream approach. Problem is the "brahs" here never got that, so dead game.

You need to breathe when you talk.

Just now, UnknownSystemError said:

Same parent company as Dark and Light. Full prediction this will meet the same fate. All the Ark players have gone back to Ark. (our company of 20 is down to 3 people who log on just to feed animals and crew and keeps the lights on, in Discord everyone went back to Ark) As development money continues to dry up, they will start to cut staff, and people that were tasked to be under Grapeshot that are any good will get their jobs at Wildcard back. The others not so much. Many people gave them a chance because they promised a PVE environment pirate-themed mmo. But what they got was a tacked on afterthought. Systems and mechanics used in the PVE environment that were obvious to anyone that they came straight from a "PVP first" mentality. Shame really, the game for UE4 was a beauty, if they had spent the time and effort rather than rushing it out the door to EA to cashgrab they could have had a hit. As it is they are known as the "pirate Bless." I had never had any interaction with Ark or their games before, and I sure as hell won't be in the future. Best $15 bucks I ever spent, spending time figuring out what was broken and how much of my progress had been invalidated by kneejerk development decisions that week was always a high point. In the future any title they put out will get the same response from me as the Russian guy who likes to reskin the same game over and over and release it as EA. A hard nope. Oh, and where's my hat?

Holy shit you are extra. If you really don't trust the future of this game, why are you here?

Scoot.

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I know from several pve companys that they have the wish for some pvp from time to time.

Exactly.

If this dude read my post they'd also understand they would have protection in PvP grids from the local company or its navy. Pirate grids would be known and avoided. Since all the lawless tiles touch, you would never have to cross into dangerous water; since those tiles would be empire space PvE.

5 minutes ago, krazmuze said:

1. Clearly you do not understand the atlas design that requires every player to have access to every grid to advance, it is why it makes for great PVP because it inherently creates conflict.
2. trade with PVPers and get involved in wars politics is exactly what PVE does not want.  Being restricted to trade waters and safe zones is not what PVE wants.
3. You are not a PVE player if that is what you want - you are a PvPvE player.  Nothing wrong with that label in promoting your idea - there are many PVE that would simply not play on a PvPvE server.
4. The reality is you need PVP, PVE, PvPvE, SP and coop to fit all playstyles.    Feel free to promote your playstyle and champion your servers, but I think you can do that without denigrating other playstyles.

1: It does NOT. I PROMISE you that you can find five types of each resource and mythos within 5 tiles of a polar region. If you have to cross the whole map, you are doing something wrong.

2: You do not represent all players.

3: I am a Pv$ player. Player versus Economy.

4: Yeah, because its working super well right now. The population is BOOMing. You are comfortable with the game the way it is. You dont want change... that's understandable.

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But that is the PVx design that PVE players do not want. 

You speak for all of us now?

How do you know that PvE waters wouldnt be  interconnected and always follow a "tradewind" ?

Couldn't you also... you know, trade to get stuff?

You think to narrowly.

Just now, The D Legacy said:

well i think you need to go deeper into what you mean exactly before giving you a proper answer but if i guessed correctly my answer would be: imagine the people who simply wants to do trade runs getting unwillingly involved into a sea battle as an easy example.

 

Did you read my proposal? All you would have to do is stick to Empire tiles or tiles belonging to Sovereign Trade companies. Unless you are at war with them or their Navy you are free to sail. It's kinda the way EvE Online works, but you cant be suicide ganked.

6 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

The only real successful mix of pvp and pve keeps them entirely separate, where PvE people dont' get stuck having to rely on PvP aspects of the game to progress, and they don't have to put up with the bad behavior and chat.  If you keep the two entirely separate, then you might as well just put them on different servers.  There's no benefit to combining them, especially if it means the server pop. goes up enough to make land scarce again.

I mean, you are free to have an opinion; everyone in this thread who plays PvE (including myself) seems to disagree. I would love to build warships in a PvE zone and sell them to a mega alliance for thier war efforts, but maybe that's just me....

Just now, Egon von Sturmberg said:

ATLAS will be the early version of the OASIS and the Grandmother of the Matrix

Actually.

https://secondlife.com/

I think Ill leave this here

2 minutes ago, Egon von Sturmberg said:

Why do you think, playin Pve like we do at the moment isnt possible combined with PvP, which is happening somewhere else in the world?

The many private servers out there with mixed PvE and PvP  grids  prove this works. EvE Online proves this works. WoW proves mixed servers work. Ark/Atlas have a lot of absolutist thinkers who seem to not be able imagine the game beyond its current circumstances.

I feel like you  have limited the scope of your idea too much. You are thinking too much in terms of how Atlas currently functions, which was never intended. Check this thread out for my idea. Keep in mind, it's a game... they sky is  the limit, essentially.

You basically want empires back, but with more restrictions. That system sucked hard, and it caused the burn out that people have now.

I think this is the wrong game-play philsophy.  Restricting players down to Ark-sized bases and limiting their territory is unfun!

7 hours ago, Wolff said:

All in all a good write up. BUT, I do see a few problems with some of the proposed features:

1) Storing stuff locally on a player's computer is a no no for me. This opens the door to hacking and cheating. Homesteads should always be instanced areas on a server.

2) Mixing PVE and PVP. You clearly suggest this in your post but I get the impression that in your setup PVE'ers would be restricted to a few crowded grids. Fyi, EU PVE currently has more players than EU PVP. So there needs to be a much better balance between PVP vs PVE grids. I am thinking around 50/50. Golden age should always be PVE, otherwise its going to be a troll and griefer fest.

3) Taming in PVP grids. This is and always will be a grief fest. Trolls will be patrolling these zones with one thing in mind: to fuck up your taming. This can be done by outright killing your tame in progress with a simple bow (3 or 4 shots will usually do it). I have done taming on PVP and it is NOT fun.

1: I wouldn't worry about people cheating. They would need access to dev for console commands; which would not be allowed cause they would still be on an official server.
 

2: I would imagine the map  would be expanded to allow more players. Keep in mind PvE players can also purchase their own Sovereign grids as well.

3: Until recently, Ive had my whole experience on NA:PvP. No one coming to grief your tame unless you are on  lawless or something. Even then, lawless is dead now-a-days.

1 hour ago, Jatheish said:

This is something we are planning to do, having that bigger focus on piracy. Thank you for the write-up, I'll have a read through and share with the team to check out. 

I know you sent this to my thread as well; but the thing I said about planks.... can we add this to here too?

It REALLY sucks to lose mythical planks and not have more to replace it with.... planks shouldnt be " lost!"

It's all good! I'm a big sailor. I can handle myself!

I just wish there were a few less annoyances to deal with, but thats Early Access/hardcore games.

Oh wow.

Thank you for the reply!

I am super passionate about this game, despite never really getting into Ark.

I have had good luck with my suggestions working out for FacePunch and Rust.... so I really hope it works for you guys too!

Me too! The experience on PvE is SO much better than PvP. I am really happy I made the switch.

6 minutes ago, Realist said:

Very cool. Factions. I like it

The more we talk about it the more likely the devs are to do it. It seems most of the quitters want to like this game, but its just so hard to with it's identity crisis.

TIL: it is difficult to follow a cow around while stuffing rushes, fronds, onions, garlic, or potatoes in it's face.

As we all know Colonies solved none of the problems that Empires had, save for offline raiding. On PvE servers it serves little purpose but to advertise your island on the map. I feel like it has it's place but it could  be SO MUCH MORE.  With all this talk of Factions I have my own extensive ATLAS OVERHAUL that should see surges of returning players. Functionally, these are minor changes... just to get it out the door and working. To tie it all together, though, it's a big undertaking. I haven't seen other threads tackle this kind of system yet, so I am going to bring my own ideas to the table.

I am not going to be touching on QOL issues in this thread, that's for another day. Sorry.

1: The Nations System Overview

Currently, the colonies system works by allowing players to join a company, and then an alliance of companies. This would not change. Companies and Alliances will still be critical to the game.  Emergent Player to Player scenarios drive sandbox games like Ark, Rust, and EvE Online. The current claim system does little to provide the player with a "bucket and pail" to tackle the sandbox with. Currently without  any tools or encouragement there is no reason for cooperation; therefor, the fun of the current sandbox is had by shoving handfuls into someone's shorts and eyes. Ergo, Mega clans, griefing, raiding bambis, and tears.... lots of tears. Due to it's limited nature the current system is pretty punishing for players.

Another issue I find is that: everyone I know hates playing in a mega or simply not playing for themselves. I am the same way. While, I enjoyed my time with the likes of GypSEAS, Uganda, No No No, and TC I can not say it was ideal. I never felt like I was actually having fun. It felt more like a social obligation; one which only was needed to protect my meager stash of tames and a ship. The social aspect is and was a huge draw; and part of the reason I stuck around.  However, once I got a taste of playing for myself on Private Servers/PvE/SP it changed my views quickly... it was FUN. Exactly the same gameplay... minus just about all of the problems. Players have made the system punishing.


The issue is that players and even the devs carry the same ideals and gameplay philosophy that works for Rust, Minecraft, or Ark but does NOT work for something like Atlas. Atlas, has more in common with EvE Online than any other game, and thus; it should do as much as it can to try to emulate it. Therefor, the claim and PvP system should function in a similar way. Colonies already does this for claims (vulnerability window + wardec), which is great for large alliances; it is not great however, for solos or part time players. It drives player interaction toward raiding... and just raiding. No trade, no intrigue, just raids. I think a good way to reconcile this is to allow hardcore PvP, PvE and casual PvPers to exist on the same server.

Alright, here we go:

Players will be able to chose between four main Nations, all four of which are split into alliances. Players may also chose to not affiliate with a single nation or faction They may even chose to remain hostile to all four if they like. Each alliance decision has different drawbacks or benefits. Each nation and faction has it's own ideology, special blueprints, cosmetics,  and benefits.

The Nations are as follows:

1. Eastern Empire
2. Western Kingdom
3. Norse Republic
4. Southern Syndicates
5. Pirate Cartels

•                  Eastern and Southern Empires form the "Golden Empires Collation" Faction.
•                  Norse Republic and Western Kingdoms form the "Western Trade Companies" Faction.
•                  Pirates will ignore and defend players who prove bloodthirsty enough, but this comes at the cost of Navy attention.

The presence of the Nations has lead to different levels of "security" in the waters.

1. National/Empire Waters: PvE except for players enrolled in Faction Warfare, pirates, or those under a PvP war  declaration.  (More below)
2. Lawless Waters: Basically nothing changes. Outside of player alliances: anyone can attack you, you can attack anyone. Resources are the most abundant, wild animals spawn at higher levels and are difficult to tame,  sometimes lesser mythic mobs (gorgons and yetis) spawn here. These areas surround Powerstones, rather than Freeports.
3. International Waters: This is the same as standard zones under the current system. Semi-open PvP, any player can claim, decent resources, better wilds, less dangerous islands.
4. Homestead  Waters: These are regions hosted on the player's personal computer. Only they and people invited can access this area. (More below)
5. Sovereign Waters: An extended version of island claims, this sets an entire grid to PvE and taxes all islands to a central bank. Once waters become Sovereign the company or alliance who owns the water can not be removed. (More below)
6. Powerstone Waters:  Only slight changes here. Convert zones to PvE and allow temporary builds. Allow taming of all non-mythic powerstone spawns if the player has the powerstone for said island.

2: Waters Explained.

National/Empire Waters: These areas are owned by the corresponding nation, and take the current place of Freeports and Lawless islands surrounding them.   Players are completely safe from PvP when in these zones unless they are at war with each-other or in faction warfare. Waters are patrolled by NPC pirates who attack ships and players on islands. Occasionally spawns WPE's. Faction Warfare most often happens in these areas. Players with sufficient reputation with either/both the Nation and the Faction Navy may claim certain islands. Faction Navy members get access to larger, better, yet cheaper islands that give more resources once claimed. (Areas owned by Pirate Factions also function in a similar way but are hostile to "good" players. )  Players who's companies are at war are able to attack each-other in these zones. Limited verity of resources spawn in these areas. Travel to other areas required to make anything better than FINE bps, thus encouraging trade, travel, and piracy.

Homestead Waters: Meant as a starting point and offline storage area, Homestead Waters host a single grid containing an island with a pre-built small shipyard, low quality map spawns, and crew recruiter. Homesteads provide every Freeport resource. Homesteads do not spawn useful creatures, but do however allow the player to breed any creatures regardless of conditions at a cost to the baby's wild level. Players may store up to TWO personally owned ships. Nothing stored at a Homestead decays and remains in stasis unless the player is present. All NPCs and Tames brought here are fed/paid at no cost to the player. Companies can not store company owned ships at a Homestead. As was mentioned before, this is just a place to start and tuck things away when you go offline for a long time; or a place for absolute casuals. Homesteads provide NO experience. Players are also granted access to a "lumber mill" which provides unlimited wood building pieces, and deployables only placeable on the homestead (not boats). Players must have unlocked desired deployables.

Sovereign Waters:  As mentioned before, a sufficiently advanced Company or Alliance can purchase a token from a friendly faction or nation to convert an area into a PvE area that can only be attacked under a war declaration or by an opposing navy. These areas can still be raided, however, the residing company/alliance can not be removed, nor do damaged structures remain damaged (boats and tames however do not regenerate) anything popcorned/left in bags is deposited into the claim flag. By default, only allied companies can build in these areas. Companies may have ONE sovereign grid. Declaring a zone Sovereign spawns uncontrollable NPC ships belonging to the player's company and allied navy. Players can be attacked in open water in these zones. The residing company must remain at a certain level of activity, pay gold upkeep, have settlers,  and appease its allied Nation/Faction to maintain control of an area.

Piracy: Areas claimed by pirate players spawn extra resources but are in PvP mode longer than normal grids/islands. They also attract a larger  and more powerful than average Navy presence to the area.

3: Better NPCs

"Drone Better. People make problem. Trust me... drone better." - Ivan Vanko

This is going to be a quick one. NPCs don't do enough. NPCs should repair ships when at sea, be able to help farm, watch animals, etc. Make special vendors or quests to acquire specialty NPCs/crew. Allow players to place their own crew recruiter/NPC quest giver. As was mentioned earlier, more NPC factions are needed. Less reliance on mega groups to enjoy the game to the fullest. Having the ability to assign an NPC to a ship and it automatically patrol/escort the player would also be spectacular. NPCs need to preform anything players can do; busy work wise (raising tames, resource gathering, etc) Solo players should not need other players. Instead, players should always be better at what NPCs can do; rather than being a requirement.

4: The Content is the Reward.

I've noticed that playing this game without PvP changes it's nature. In a PvP setting, PvP is the reward for 'content'. Doing a games content for a reward is a poor way to play a game, and a big reason this  game ( and WoW) is doing so poorly. Playing the game should itself, be a reward; and it is only that way for PvE /local/Single Players right now. Rewards should be things that make content more fun; tames and buffs  are on the right track for that. As you may have gleamed by now, under this system player actions result in the ability to do the same content faster, better, and in more fun ways.

5: Naval Battle + Ships.

Deplanking in its current form looks bad and feels bad. Planks shouldn't disappear. Instead, they should form holes and catch fire/splinter depending on the damage taken. But, never be "lost" instead, they are repaired as needed. When "deplanked" they begin to leak as they would now.

The option to surrender and turn over the ship/portion of resources to encourage piracy would be a boon.

As an anti-griefing and a "fun insurance" measure ships sunk should have the option to re-surface them.  For anchored ships, this is just a resource fee. For ships lost at sea, it should require the Submarine and a special token/feat.


6: Faction Rewards

What would alliance be without benefit? As was mentioned before working for a faction/nation rewards you with reputation (or negative rep) used to unlock BPs, powerful ships, tames, NPCs, land rights, and cosmetics.

Conclusion:
I do hope you can see how all of this plays together to encourage ALL types of players. No one is left out under this system. Small groups, solos, and mega groups are each rewarded  in their own way. Every form of player interaction is encouraged, and maximizes fun. Even with our current player-base this system would still benefit the players. I hope that even if this system is not utilized that the devs consider some aspects of it. I know if I were developing this game, this is the system the game would have come out with.

I think there needs to bet a bit more oversight moving forward. Getting a clamp down on the /r/playatlas sub to be less shitty toward the game and devs would be superb. Attitudes about the game would be different if less people were inclined to join the complaint circle jerk.

On 7/28/2019 at 9:43 PM, Puppies4ever said:

When i understand it right, you have powerful lions which one shoot everything?

 Single Player. They are level 1300

All I want... is some good bears. Ive had to kill the same Alpha lion THREE times today. Yes it died, yes a new one took it's place. I keep losing ALL of my progress to it; since all of my progress hinges on a bear.  This is one of the many reasons this game is dying. I'm ready to call it quits myself. This deluge of un-fun  bullshit makes me want to scream.

Every time I find a high level tame, it dies in some horrible and spectacular way. Is there a dev watching me or something?

On 7/27/2019 at 1:04 AM, Puppies4ever said:

Im talking about official server settings

Like I said. 30 for normal zones, 130 for Powerstone Islands.