Herasea

On 11/13/2020 at 6:57 PM, Gemini Five said:

I've been in Atlas since it started. I've never had 5000 gold at one time. This seems way too high to me. I don't see ever grinding gold for a ship unless grinding gold with a sloop becomes much much faster. And without ships why be here. This decision seems bizarre to me.

The Atlas developers seem to be obsessed with inducing grinding. Maybe this is to replace the pain the farmhouse removed. Games should be fun. This is not fun.

If you want to reduce ships, then reduce the ship limit. The last I remember it was something like 300 per player. Why not make the limit 10.

 

I play on PVE... things may be different on PVP.  Maybe this has some understandable logic on a PVP server.  

I agree. single person could have a max of 2 - 3 and a guild maybe 10 or less even.

When i played as well gold was not fun to gather due to the fact fighting was very very janky, broken and 0 flow to it, which i doubt has changed. Also they weighed a lot, not sure if that has changed. 

Stack on top of this a game where you can lose your stuff from no fault of your own. imagine spending time farming the gold for your ship to bug out or bombarded crossing a region. This feels like a idea for when everything else is placed and working, but like someone said. paying for a ship that you spent time gathering the mats for yourself, then to be charged? Who am i paying?

Agree. I keep popping back in hope the devs revert everything to the original system and go from there. I think a great example  of them not taking feedback in was the claim system. It was broken,  one person could place as many as they wanted and the community as a whole said, just limit it. Instead they wiped and  completely revamped it to some lord and tenant system that no one ever asked for. Not saying it was the main reason, but it definitely turned a ton of people off.

It just overall feels like the dev weren't sure what a pirate survival game should be, even though you can't go wrong with the pirate theme. I mean i couldn't even make my ship my main home and just stay out on the sea traveling from place to place.....like a pirate.

Games gone in the direct of Dark and Light. Amazing game that could do amazingly well, but falls flat due to devs not sure where they're going with it and just abandon it

Thought of revisiting as i was up for a survival style game, saw it had quite a few players, but turns out it's a bait and switch from what's in OPs post.

14 hours ago, Whitehawk said:

I personally am not sure where Atlas is heading, but one thing is for sure, people have a right to play it and and enjoy as much as people have the right not to. Besides I and many others have had our moneys worth so far. If people are that bothered about a realistic pvp pyrate game, then inundate ubi with requests to speed up skull and bones. I mean that's been in production for nearly 3 years now and so far I've only ever seen a demo!

I dont think anyone is challenging people enjoying the game, but they are challenging the devs lack of direction and neglect of the game, which i think is fair to do.

If those who work on the game said themselves they will pull the plug if things don't pan out, i think that's something people who DO like the game should be worried about, especially if they're hardly showing any signs of communication and throwing out hollow content.

This game still has a chance, but i think the team don't care anymore and want to move on to other games

12 hours ago, zottel said:

I really Dont mind the claim System Either new of old one tbh. But as Most Games the playerbase can destroy lots of fun with just beeing toxic as hell,thats why i stopped playing LoL for example. There is so much toxicity going on on officials which gladly normally Happens behind the Scenes so New Players wont be affected. But griefing And toxicity is even worse on PVE than PVP for some reason. 

Cause there's no way for anyone to retaliate in PvE, if someone griefs you in PvP at least you can rally some people and wipe them. In PvE you can't do anything other than sling some words at them, which they get off on as they know you can't do anything.

That's why i felt the older claim system was better as you didn't have this forced relationship and deal with griefers as much. You or your group didn't have to interact unless needed, I.e bosses or trading. With the newer system they literately gave the tools for people to grief others and given player this god complex. People have come here and said, "I own the island, how do i get rid of everyone" or "It's my island, i should be able to do what i want" Which their not wrong, but it shouldn't be a thing in the first place on a PvE server. The numbers say it all when they made the change.

Overall it seems they're trying to force PvP gameplay into PvE and it just doesn't work at all and at the same time they're trying to trivialise the PvE content on PvE? 

I agree and disagree. The only thing i disagree with is the claim, to me this ruined PvE more than anything.

It was a system no one asked for, in fact it was what people were against in the first place, as you had a group of two who got lucky getting in the server and claimed up entire grids. So they thought it was logical to make it an actual feature?

Imho the tax system made sense with the older system, if the the made small twicks, because if you went away for a while and people were just clearing the land bare around your house, how are you meant to do anything yourself? But it didn't work as the problem was people could claim everywhere and tax everything, if they reduced the amount of claims, the problem would have been sorted, but no and were are here.

The rest I agree, things should be a challenge. It also boggles my mind that there was any focus on single player when the main game isn't even ready or at an acceptable level. Overall i don't care if we have it or not, but their playerbase is already disgustingly low, so they want to further reduce that by giving people a reason to leave the main servers?

Like you said, they've done good stuff, but then they do stuff like what i mentioned and they just completely screw it as it drastically impacts the players. It's a 1 step forward, 9 steps back scenario. What makes it even sadder imho is I've seen them fix a problem the community has been out spoken about, but then you see them make a major mistake, then do noting about it. The flag system for example.

I do have a horrid feeling they may try push a singleplayer game for the final product

I am sad to see the state this games become, wish I could just teleport to their studio and just ask "what are you doing?". Left after the wipe and hoped i could come back to something, but nope. They seem set on forcing things into PvE that just don't belong or ideas that just don't make sense.

What's upsetting to me is they had it at the start, they just needed small changes in terms of the flag system, decay and other things. If they took their time and tried little changes, note the communities reaction, then move on from there, they would have been fine, but they choose the worst possible choices and ended up doing these massive shifts that just disrupted the dynamic of the game.

This game can recover as it's not released yet, but for that they need to really start being more consistent with the feedback they take in.

Also push back single player, push back console, focus on getting he PC stuff up to par, then think about moving on to the other two. They can barley hold the PC crowd, splitting the already tiny player base is silly and do they honestly think console is going to stick around?

Not sure why they don't just have someone log in once in a while and check up on things, people do this cause there's ZERO presence of authority in-game, tbh it would solve a lot of grief issues, not sure why game companies don't do this anymore, having a CM jump in wouldn't be out of the ordinary. 

Once players know that a CM will log-in, the spam will reduced or they risk the chance of getting a ban or a punishment, not saying it's perfect or they should check every island, but if word gets out of people being banned for the spam, others will give up on the spam and maybe start removing them. 

Add this to high decay timers on structures that have less than a certain amount of pieces. 

What happened to the structure upkeep that was meant come in as well?

SotD are the quickest way to gain quick levels, not sure how you're only lvl 4, just traveling should give quite a few lvls. Unless they lowered it since the big patch 

2 hours ago, RyuujinZERO said:

When you join a party in an MMO, or shooter looter, how do you feel that a random party member (Usually the party creator) is arbitrarily designated as 'Team leader', and has the power to do certain administrative functions?

Does it make you seethe that they are YOUR LORD, and YOUR OWNER, that you are THEIR PROPERTY?

Or do you just politely (or impolitely) ask them to do something if those administrative rights need exercising? (Hey, SSJDouchenozzle69 is griefing, kick them from party plox!).

Of course, I can understand why people who fancy themselves 'Free people' or 'pirates' would chafe at the notion of living in a micro state that has things like town planning, social welfare and organised militia, but let's not kid ourselves. Your problem isn't with 'bad landowners', it's because you have a libertarian freedom fantasy you want to act out in ATLAS (And like many people), overlook that ATLAS is a game about the age of sail; colonialism, merchant empires and yes, pirates.

By all means, enjoy your lawless lifestyle. I salute it, but let's not try and pretend it's 'better' place to live than a well managed microstate.

There is no comparison at all, for one you're spending potential 10 - 30 mins with this person, where as here you're potential spending your entire games life on a island. Also the "administrative functions" aren't in the same ball park and the times people do have full rights in a mmo tend to be in a guild raid, which is community you signed up for well in advance or a pre-made group, which you joined as it matched your requirements and if you're not happy at any time you can leave find and something else or make your own group and set the rules. 

Also the arguments you make for against the old system weren't a problem at all,

with SotD  people aren't suddenly going to go out and kill them now because of the new system. if they did before they will now, if they didn't before they won't now, also you don't need a company to do it, I was clearing them myself as a solo player,

resource blocking, I ran into the problem once, out of all the hours and islands i travelled too, never ran into resource blocking, even on lawless where people can build everywhere, also there a many ways it could be solved, the devs saying, you take care of it is the lazier option.

Overall you make the system sound great, but in reality it isn't, especially for those who are not landlords on PvE. PvP it's fine, but PvE makes no sense. While i would rather the old system i more than happy for them to improve and make it fair for both parties.

3 hours ago, Kidori said:

I don't disagree that the current system needs more work, or that it's not the best route they could have taken, especially for PvE.

That said, if the question is "why the devs are so obssesed with imposing a lord system,"

 

That has been on the Steam game description since the game was announced, and it's not a long leap of logic to assume that if you're not one of the governors/lords/dictators then you would be one of the people living under them.

I've been aware of the direction they want to take the game since before I bought it, not the exact details but the general direction. I liked what I read and believed their vision was a good one so I bought it.

And I still think it's a great vision, it's just the implementation that's not so great. But Grapeshot has shown a willingness to change even the core mechanics of the game based on feedback so I think it's highly unlikely that what we'll have at release is the system we have now.

The things i think they were thinking of PvP when writing that, because you can at least on PvP say, "screw this landlord or as a pirate pillage",  gather a group to take them out, potentially reinstating someone worth while or keeping the island lord free and make it a pirate stronghold.

In PvE, there's nothing you can do, it's put up or shut up and i think that's the overall thing people dislike, being placed in a situation they don't really have much of an option, on top of that, people can mess with your stuff or bully you into what they want with zero ways of retaliating. 

Overall there seems to not much thought on, how will this work with PvE?

Imho, leave this on PvP and place the old system with limits on PvE

17 minutes ago, Willard said:

Demolish is available only 24 hours after building a structure. As a long term game like this is it really that harsh? Do u actually play Atlas ? 

Btw this game is build about landlord/tenant system. It is not intended EVERYONE has its own land. Definitely not solo players. Its just how this game works now and will work in the future.

You shouldn't be able to demolish anything of anyone's, be it an 1hr or 24 hrs on PvE, That's the whole point is to avoid conflict with players, my point still stands, if someone wants, they can destroy your base, if it's outside the time frame  they can  foundation spam you or do as they please. it's already been said people are noticing more in lawless areas because people don't want o deal with the system. Not saying there's no where at all, but you have to look hard for it or accept you'll be someones resource cow for the foreseeable future.

"Btw this game is build about landlord/tenant system" Yes now, before I don't remember being a tenant of anyone.

 "It is not intended EVERYONE has its own land"  Again, only now, before people were able to clam a little area for themselves and that system was fine, it just need limiting.

You're acting as if this was something the game started with, when it didn't at all.

Also this game isn't kings and queens or about government, it's a PIRATE game, whether it's fantasy or reality pirates never were "tenants" They were rulers of their own fate and domain. In truth it doesn't fit the theme at all, but as i said, i'm happy to with it if they're willing to improve on it make it a 50/50 exchange for both landlord and tenant, right now it's all in favor for the landlord or also allow player to live on their ships comfortably 

29 minutes ago, Willard said:

Dominant opinion of 20 forum users ... exactly those 20 people were writing "oooh claim system sucks, we want something else", after introducing new system "aaaa, old system was ok, it just needs some tweaks".

Current system is completely fine, I really don't know what people are complaining about. Claims are limited, there is no claim flag spam. 

What bothers you so much about current system?

It wasn't just 20, if you go back to even launch, people were saying they should just limit flags because anyone could just spam an island with no down side. I had a island that was dominated by 1 person and they got pissed i expanded my base to 2 claim flags, no on said "we need completely new system". Either you didn't browse the forums at the time or are willing choosing to ignore it, literally every other thread was was asking for limiting claim flags

The problem with the current system is, first come first serve, which is stupid if this game wishes to keep going long term. You're at the mercy of anyone who owns the island, you could set up your base, a guy comes along with he's mates and claims the island, they want your spot....demolish, or they choose to foundation spam the island not allowing anyone on (This is the biggest problem). Another I saw was big companies are taking smaller up keep islands as it's easier to maintain disallowing smaller companies anything or even taking both, cause they can.  

6 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

He has read and there are as many detractors as supporters for the current system on these forums.

And as human nature dictates you are more likely to speak out to complain than to praise, that tends to lead one to believe more people like this system than not.

It's fine if they support, but trying to deny something that happened is my grip. I'm all for the new system if people are willing to help make it better and not bury their head in the sands over the issues

So far people have just said "benifit of the land owner". What about none land owners? I said this before they need something that benifits boths sides, not just those who own the land. Right now, there is no reason for others to set up a base on someones land as all the benfits are given to the land owner. There should be a reason land owenres want people on their island and want them to stay and vice versa.

Also, i'll keep saying it as I belive this is what a priate game should be. allow players to live on their ships, claim it as your home and it has increased stat to allow comfortable living.

i remeber playing on a private server and just traveling from place to place, crafting and doing normal stuff while sailing, it felt amazing not having to travel back cause my ship was overweight and i'm sure it would do wounders for RP.

7 hours ago, JotaCe said:

Many Gigabytes to update and setup that new claim system, to fail again...

A .ini file with less than 1 Kb with the solution: #flaglimitnumber = "Put here a number"

Good job dev's.

Pretty much. I was trying to keep an open mind about trying a new claim system, but the simplest is always the best and was suggested by others and myself. Limit the flags, increase radius a little, done

37 minutes ago, VaskaX said:

 

Bah, now I see where problem is.

You don’t need to react stupid.

You have to react faster. Try next time and I sure you be landlord also.

Another way get your own company and claim big island.

Or live in fear for you base.

 

that should not be a thing if the game wishes for long term growth. kinda says, if you don't play day one, don't bother.

It seems the game is back to square one with people not being able to claim anything or being bullied of their plot. As i said ages ago, this is a pirate game, not sure why there is even a landlord system, but if they're set on this then allow players to live on their ships like pirates would, it would mean if a player isn't able to get a spot or doesn't want to deal with a overseer, then they have the option of being their own master.

Create a ship and place a flag or something on it, which sets it as your home, increasing stats to allow living to be manageable, which also could open up more skill lines or stats to further customize and improve ship living.

With the island idea, there needs to be a mutual agreement, you help with the upkeep and  there's a buff in it for you, increase gold, resources something.

Also to lighten the load, allow people to live on their ships, were pirates at the end of the day. There should be a risk vs reward. Can set it as home which it increases it's carry weight a  bit and bit more health but because you have everything on the ship, if that sinks, your pretty much screwed. I would rather temp stop on a lawless, setup a ship and leave exploring stopping for resources, i rather not leave on an island tbh

Yeah no to those sayin rush it out, these will be the same people later saying, "why did they rush it? Shitty devs just trying to cash in on a quick buck. They don't listen".

Agree with the OP, but maybe if they increases rates to like 50x  for the first day or something so people can get to certain point quicker?

Hmm, the problem is there is not real "you help me, i'll help you vibe from this. How will it differ from what we have now? At least if i took a spot no one could destroy it, but it seem if the land owner catches you within the set time limit they will just demolish it or make your life hell if they choose so.

Yes there are nice people and i'm sure some great communities will come out of it, but there are also dicks, i think it's very naive to think as system like this is not going to cause a ton of discord. I mean look at the crap show when the game launched, people non-stop griefing and this will be used in the same way I feel.

As i said in another thread, there needs to be beneficial agreement for both party's, landowner and tenant, so even those toxic players will have a reason to allow people on the island. resource buff, defense buff, something so players who live on the land don't feel like cows being milked for their work with nothing in return. 

2 hours ago, Willard said:

If you want a piece of land for yourself why don´t u claim an island? Lol  Try to play other MMOs with this "i want to play myself" approach. You will be really disapointed of how bad you end up. How can u play MMOs with this single player game approach? 

It's no about solo, it's about having some random dictating what happens with your items or what you build.  

This solution is no different to what we had, gerifers or greedy people taking over a whole island and not allowing anyone to build on it and if they do, they just help themselvs to whatever they want of your stuff.

To the Oveall topic, If they are set on this, then set up an voting system so we can pick who we wish to be a landlord, so on the atlas map it will say who wants to be the landlord of whatever grid and the company have write a proposal why they should be the land lord. Meaning people can build as normal, but a company can suggest becoming a landlord of said island, they write proposal, if people are happy the islands gains a buff, maybe more resources gathered , more skills in crafting and building become unlocked for everyone one the island, etc. Moving it too more a of a community thing, than random due controlling a island just because he logged in first.

18 hours ago, LoneXS said:

I can only assume you didn't put many hours into Ark PVE on official at least when there was land to be grabbed. Sansa Phoenix nailed it, if I want your land I will box you in, foundation spam your resources, places pillars in the sea just outside your dock and watch your ships go no where and I can assure you there is NOTHING you can do about it. The Devs have made it pretty clear that punishing griefing isn't a priority right now and using Ark as a template of what to expect, it will likely never be. 

People think it is bad right now but imagine the levels of griefing we can expect when you can build on anyones doorstep.

The claim system makes 90% of that impossible.

I didn't i admit, i played private cause the resource gathering felt awful, but if they are planing to stop pillar spam and foundation spam, would you still see it as a problem then? 

 I feel like this bit is being overlooked and this seem to be the main reason people don't like it. If the system they want to do, from what i read, requires time and effort to maintain, are greifers honestly gonna  bother? The only reason they do it is it costs them nothing,  if it cost them a massive amount of resources to keep those gates up or pillars, etc, would the problem continue? 

Don't get me wrong, i'm up for getting them to revert the choice, but if the main issue people have with the no claim flag seem to be pillar spam, but they said they're putting something in place to stop it, i don't see the issue anymore? I could be wrong.

1 hour ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

And I'd like to add that it seems the Devs want feedback from their player base, but aren't really listening to what we have to say. I don't remember reading a whole lot of people saying they didn't want a claim system at all in PvE. Only that it should be limited to so many flags per company. And they aren't listening!!!

Its like the Devs live in a world of total unreality where they honestly believe huge tribes/companies will play nice with smaller ones, or that an 'upkeep box' to auto-repair a company's structures will prevent griefing by making the cost to maintain it all 'harder'. Not for large companies, it won't. They have the manpower and resources to do it. 

So while you can say its players who are doing the griefing, its the DEVS who are making it possible by not listening to the people who actually play the game daily and have to deal with the griefing!

True, but you're not thinking about it. people are looking at short term and not long term, befoer saying, "They're not listening" think about what was said in more detail and why is was done, not sayin this is for everything, because there have been moments that made no sense.

someone point it out already, on PVE,  a claim flag makes no sense. Without a flag, means you don't have to worry about someone stealing your land if you're offline, makes sure you have enough resources and you can go away for a few day or a weeks, also

With the previous system it was a set timer, meaning griefers could hide behind the 2 weeks on it after sealing a plot, now, if they really want to keep your land, well they can't because you can't steal it, they would have to wait till your stuff has decade 

On top of that, it seems they are taking precautions to prevent pillar or foundations spam, will it work?, no idea, have to wait an see.

Players really need to sit back, take on board what is said first before running to the forums, also this is the point of EA. They will try things, if they don't work, they will try something else, also they don't have to do everything the player say, most of the time players just look at the surface and base what they see on emotion and like i said think short term not long term.

Imho i see no reason for flags in PvE

8 hours ago, EvilNecroid said:

how come every time i bring up tames people start fighting?

im not saying get rid of them or nerf them. let people have tames if they like. im just saying i shouldnt have to suffer just because i dont want to use them

Because everyone wants what they want to happen, that's the problem here. Some want it  like ARK, some don't, some want want tames and breeding to be focused on, some don't.

People cry and complain saying the dev don't listen, but the problem is the community is so split on everything it's impossible for them to please everyone. This thread is a perfect example, the community is all over the place, but they expect the devs to do as they say and threaten and us number as in someways of blackmail to get what they want.

From what i've seen,

This game will die if they do focus on breeding or if they don't focus on it,

This game will die if they do focus on tames or if they don't focus on them

The game will die if they do focus on solo/ smalls groups or if they don't focus on them

Damned if they do, damned if they don't situation right now imho

7 minutes ago, BurntFlameZ said:

I just realized and wanted some opinion on this; do you think that this game a viability after a year or 2. I ask that question because it is a game built around ships that is the primary thing in this game so how many ships can you add to the game before it is redundant, before there is no more reason to add a ship, unlike in ark where the dev's could add a dino or 2 and that was a game update. they cant do that in atlas because people don't want it to be "ARK 2" so how are they going to make this game able to last a long time like ark. if you agree let me know what they could do to add stuff to the game to keep it going. if you disagree then tell me why I'm dead wrong

I think it will do fine imho, they don't need millions of ships, but different customization for each ship and things to tackle with them, SoF only has 3 types, but tons of customization. Also it's down to content, different encounters with treasure maps, different things to encounter on the sea, quests, player driven mission boards so player can create their own content. something to get people on their ships and exploring, agian it's the content and what is rewarded that will keep players going, if they don't, then the game will no go anywhere.

PvP will be easier to keep players going, the struggle will be PvE.

Also it doesn't need solo player to survive, not every game needs it and i'm saying this as a solo player

I agree about wind, I feel the sextant should allow you good wind for 10 mins or something, current buff is rubbish.

SotD on the other hand, aren't much of a threat, only realized when i started attacking them, you start to realize how much dmg you can take before things get dicey. Not sure about a sloop, but a schooner can take quite a lot of hits before you start leaking and i mean taking a full broadside at least 3 - 4 times in the same spot.

Agree, doesn't matter if it's used in ARK, doesn't make it better, tbh that's even more sad as the maps are pretty small with ARK.

Pin pointing someones location, when they log off/on or any other info it provides and PAYING for further information using a third party site, is cheating, you can try to justify it all you like, but it's still cheating. You're gaining or paying for information about a player that is not provided through the actual game or the devs.