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lordkhan4444

wieght sails

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1 hour ago, Kummba said:

For schooner its easy: EDIT: easy bc only one "main" sail.

Weight sail: ~40% speed hit for 4k max weight.

1 Rack: 20% speed hit for 6,4k "free" weight.

Still cant justify either.  They permanently slow you down, regardless if they're full or not.  Weight sails slow you down permanently, regardless if you have the weight or not.  Cargo racks slow you down permanently regardless if they're full or not.

The only true way to optimize is to carry a weight sail in your cargo, until you need it, or, carry mats for a cargo rack in your cargo until you need it and build it.  To have a boat with permanent weight sail, or, cargo rack is just speed suicide.  (yep it's all about speed).

I would have designed it so that a cargo rack simply reduces the weight of items in it by x%.  Done.  With the penalty of not being able to access until you anchor.  Uncomplicated, and useful.  Ship speed etc would just be calculated on the net weight of the boat, with the goods in the cargo rack benefiting from a weight reduction, if feeling sadistic, would have made it like the resource box with a huge max limit, but given it 2 slots to encourage careful choice of materials in there.

The way the cargo rack is now, is that you're paying a penalty in lieu of it being used, regardless if you use it or not.  Unfortunate.

Edited by Vorxius

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Yes you carry the rack with u until you have reached a certain breakpoint (of your ship) then u apply it.

Here it is how it look for my brig:

unknown.png

I switchf rom blue(0) to red(1) to maybe yellow(2), but thats really slow allready.
x-axxis is extra weight in 1k, brig is ~3000/22000 at 0.

y-axxis is top speed in knots

 

7 minutes ago, Vorxius said:

I would have designed it so that a cargo rack simply reduces the weight of items in it by x%.  Done.  With the penalty of not being able to access until you anchor.  Uncomplicated, and useful.  Ship speed etc would just be calculated on the net weight of the boat, with the goods in the cargo rack benefiting from a weight reduction.

People complain about only one reasonable sail, and u want to kill the brig for hauling/exploring/mapping too.

 

As i said before, the balancing of the racks was the devs best job sofar.

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Weight Sails received a big bonus, but the biggest problem with them atm is the actual sail speed of these, its only around 60% the speed of a speed sail (and their even slower opening closing speed). They will remain the least used sailtype by far like it used to be.

Handling Sails are at around 75% the speed of a Speed Sail. (Increase through BP is possible)

Only has some actual use after having 55% weight (You are already doing something wrong when having such high weight in the first place).

PLUS Weight Sails only have a single bonus from blueprints. Really bad.

People overestimate Weightbonuses through level ups and the Weight Sails, under 50% weight you roughly gain only 7% speed difference for each 10% weight. Over 50% its like 10% or more speed loss for each 10% weight. Putting 10x weight lvl ups in a brig only lets you go around 4% faster at average weight.

My solution would be bumping up the Weight Sail Speed from 60% to 70% with its current bonuses and adding a new BP stat.

Edited by EvgeniZ

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I wouldn't recommend putting all weight sails on any craft, but there are breakpoints where you'll be going faster with them.

Assume that a Large weight sail produces 100 thrust.  A speed sail is +40%, so 140 Thrust

6 Speed sails therefore makes 840 Thrust (140*6).

5 Speed sails + 1 weight sail is 800 Thrust(140*5+100)

 

A Galleon at 15000/30000 weight:

With the speed sails, this ship will go 70.7% Max Speed, or 592.9 Thrust (840*.707)

With the Speed + Weight, it will go 74.7% Max Speed, or 598.0 Thrust (800 * .747)

 

Now, that's not exactly a LOT more, but then again replacing 1 sail on a 6 sail configuration shouldn't cause a huge shift.  The main thing is that you need to not increase your load weight to over-negate the load benefit.  You'll also get more benefit from upgraded weight sails (since they work while upgraded speed sails dont)

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1 hour ago, Kummba said:

Yes you carry the rack with u until you have reached a certain breakpoint (of your ship) then u apply it.

Here it is how it look for my brig:

unknown.png

I switchf rom blue(0) to red(1) to maybe yellow(2), but thats really slow allready.
x-axxis is extra weight in 1k, brig is ~3000/22000 at 0.

y-axxis is top speed in knots

 

People complain about only one reasonable sail, and u want to kill the brig for hauling/exploring/mapping too.

 

As i said before, the balancing of the racks was the devs best job sofar.

Does not work for the game.  Has not, does not, will not...ever.  PvP is all about speed.  The best thing they could do for the game is get rid of speed sails.  Make the sails all about weight or maneuverability.  People are not going to sacrifice speed in a PvP server, so why even bother with the other sails in the game.  Especially with the insane speed hits that the Devs give everything.  People might use those other sails on PvE, but they won't on PvP.  Same for the cargo containers.  They will just use the stripped down Galleon.  That has worked, and will continue to be the go to method for cargo.

 

 

Edited by Captain Jack Shadow
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1 hour ago, Archsenex said:

I wouldn't recommend putting all weight sails on any craft, but there are breakpoints where you'll be going faster with them.

Assume that a Large weight sail produces 100 thrust.  A speed sail is +40%, so 140 Thrust

6 Speed sails therefore makes 840 Thrust (140*6).

5 Speed sails + 1 weight sail is 800 Thrust(140*5+100)

 

A Galleon at 15000/30000 weight:

With the speed sails, this ship will go 70.7% Max Speed, or 592.9 Thrust (840*.707)

With the Speed + Weight, it will go 74.7% Max Speed, or 598.0 Thrust (800 * .747)

 

Now, that's not exactly a LOT more, but then again replacing 1 sail on a 6 sail configuration shouldn't cause a huge shift.  The main thing is that you need to not increase your load weight to over-negate the load benefit.  You'll also get more benefit from upgraded weight sails (since they work while upgraded speed sails dont)

 

People aren't going to be carrying that much weight all the time, so they are going to set the ship up for speed.  Then, when they could use the extra weight, they won't do it, because you aren't going to do something as stupid as demolish Masterwork+ sails to change them with sails that will be used for one trip.  If they want this to be a thing, they will need to design a way to change sails, and reuse those sails, on the same mast.

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4 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

People are not going to sacrifice speed in a PvP server

I'm not even prepared to sacrifice speed in PvE !

I'd rather carry less, than sacrifice 40% speed.  When 7 SoTD spawn in front of me (regularly), I'd rather be at 19kts, than 12, speed is safety!

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2 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

 

People aren't going to be carrying that much weight all the time, so they are going to set the ship up for speed.  Then, when they could use the extra weight, they won't do it, because you aren't going to do something as stupid as demolish Masterwork+ sails to change them with sails that will be used for one trip.  If they want this to be a thing, they will need to design a way to change sails, and reuse those sails, on the same mast.

That's a good point though..  No one will demolish their masterwork speed sails.   Which leaves the cargo container as the only option.. and since it kills your speed if it's full or not, then the only time to use it would be when you need it, and build it on demand when complicated math decides you're at the break-even point.  I'm one to just play the game, not sit with a scientific calculator working out, speed / weight / container optimization ratios when I think I can get 0.0001% more speed with a cargo rack.

Maybe I'm just grumpy after all  😉

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14 minutes ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

Does not work for the game.  Has not, does not, will not...ever.  PvP is all about speed.  The best thing they could do for the game is get rid of speed sails.  Make the sails all about weight or maneuverability.  People are not going to sacrifice speed in a PvP server, so why even bother with the other sails in the game.  Especially with the insane speed hits that the Devs give everything.  People might use those other sails on PvE, but they won't on PvP.  Same for the cargo containers.  They will just use the stripped down Galleon.  That has worked, and will continue to be the go to method for cargo.

 

 

maybe if they reverted the speed sail to what they were on release, same speed but crap angle of usability, people would start thinking more about choice of sail rather than just speed sail, speed sail, speed sail all the time.

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49 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

maybe if they reverted the speed sail to what they were on release, same speed but crap angle of usability, people would start thinking more about choice of sail rather than just speed sail, speed sail, speed sail all the time.

I agree. I think that speed sails have too much of an effective radius to make the other sails desirable right now.

I also like the idea of placing a mast and having the sails being an item you equip on it, so that you can change them without having to destroy the sail every time you want to change them. Just have a cool down period for actual using the sail, say 30 seconds or so. Enough to make it undesirable to do in battle, but not enough to be more than a minor annoyance at worst. Heck, raising the anchor seems to take that long sometimes anyways.

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Always thought that speed sail should only be like 10% quicker than the others.

Handling sail 90% speed of speed sail, with advantage of catching winds at mad angles

Weight sail 90% speed of speed sail, with advantage of increasing weight capacity of the hull

 

That way it's not going to be meta meta meta.  It would allow variety.

 

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7 hours ago, Vorxius said:

Always thought that speed sail should only be like 10% quicker than the others.

Handling sail 90% speed of speed sail, with advantage of catching winds at mad angles

Weight sail 90% speed of speed sail, with advantage of increasing weight capacity of the hull

 

That way it's not going to be meta meta meta.  It would allow variety.

 

Maybe the devs made some mistake regarding the speed of Speed Sails, since the bp velocity stat has no effect. I would appreciate if they lowered the speed of Speed Sails by like 20% but allow them to be faster through blueprint stats like it was intended.

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On 6/4/2019 at 7:17 AM, Kummba said:

No he does not! He does ~17 knots at half weight, with strong wind. In a storm he can be faster but not 19.

(Large) Weight sail on a schooner, wait i have to kms.

There you go, knew I wasn't going mad...  Just now, Schooner, strong wind, no storm 22.05 kts.  (25% full)

bu426r7rb0rf9xr6g.jpg

...means at ~50% weight (assuming 90% of speed), this baby bird does +20.25 kts.  It's not called the "HMS Gilmour" for nothing !

Edited by Vorxius
  • Haha 1

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