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boomervoncannon

Let’s talk about the Chinese forum spam and what it implies.

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I want to preface my remarks by clarifying that I have no technical expertise relating to keeping unwanted spam off of a gaming message board. What I do have is 15 years experience reading and posting to any number of gaming forums as a basis for comparison. That experience  does not cast Atlas’s forums in a positive light with respect to the repeated spamming of ads in Chinese that this forum has been subjected to of late. I wish to focus not on the fact the spammed ads are in Chinese, this fact is largely irrelevant to the point I wish to make. Rather I want to comment on what this continued spamming implies to me as a gamer and customer.

The implication is not good. I have never been active on a forum that experienced such prolonged and repeated spamming by what is quite obviously the same outside party continuing to disrupt discussion and use of the forum for legitimate purposes. The impression this creates on me as a customer and member of the Atlas community is that Grapecard is either unable or unwilling to stop this spamming. I have no idea which of these possibilities is true but either is a significant negative to the way I perceive Grapecard as a company and development team.

Here is the obvious logical implication of this problem: If Grapecard is unable or unwilling to accomplish something literally every other forum I have participated in over 15 years has achieved in limiting spam of this type, why should I as their customer have confidence they can secure integrity of game files, accounts, or even my personal information? If someone can repeatedly spam Atlas’s forums with impunity, and Grapecard cannot or will not accomplish the most mundane of community management tasks in curtailing said spam, this cast significant doubt on their ability or willingness to secure the integrity of their game or my account.

Patrons often judge an eating establishment by the cleanliness of their bathrooms, reasoning that the state of the bathrooms is likely a good indicator of the cleanliness of the kitchen. In short, Grapecard’s bathrooms have been made a mess by this spammer, and their failure to shut the spammer down in any way shape or form causes me to question whether I should continue to eat here.

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36 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

I want to preface my remarks by clarifying that I have no technical expertise relating to keeping unwanted spam off of a gaming message board. What I do have is 15 years experience reading and posting to any number of gaming forums as a basis for comparison. That experience  does not cast Atlas’s forums in a positive light with respect to the repeated spamming of ads in Chinese that this forum has been subjected to of late. I wish to focus not on the fact the spammed ads are in Chinese, this fact is largely irrelevant to the point I wish to make. Rather I want to comment on what this continued spamming implies to me as a gamer and customer.

The implication is not good. I have never been active on a forum that experienced such prolonged and repeated spamming by what is quite obviously the same outside party continuing to disrupt discussion and use of the forum for legitimate purposes. The impression this creates on me as a customer and member of the Atlas community is that Grapecard is either unable or unwilling to stop this spamming. I have no idea which of these possibilities is true but either is a significant negative to the way I perceive Grapecard as a company and development team.

Here is the obvious logical implication of this problem: If Grapecard is unable or unwilling to accomplish something literally every other forum I have participated in over 15 years has achieved in limiting spam of this type, why should I as their customer have confidence they can secure integrity of game files, accounts, or even my personal information? If someone can repeatedly spam Atlas’s forums with impunity, and Grapecard cannot or will not accomplish the most mundane of community management tasks in curtailing said spam, this cast significant doubt on their ability or willingness to secure the integrity of their game or my account.

Patrons often judge an eating establishment by the cleanliness of their bathrooms, reasoning that the state of the bathrooms is likely a good indicator of the cleanliness of the kitchen. In short, Grapecard’s bathrooms have been made a mess by this spammer, and their failure to shut the spammer down in any way shape or form causes me to question whether I should continue to eat here.

Very well said boomer.

we might as well just consider this under meshing because they can’t fix it. Happened all the time in the ark forums as well.

Edited by Realist

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It's useful if you wanted a blatantly fake undergrad degree certificate from Nottingham university or whatever lol.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Realist said:

Very well said boomer.

we might as well just consider this under meshing because they can’t fix it. Happened all the time in the ark forums as well.

With Ark I preferred the steam forums to the game's official forums. 

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Pretty much the same resume here and while I do remember a few game forums who had problems along these lines Atlas is the only one I recall having the posts remain for long periods of time. The forums are an extension of the game itself so the lack of moderation should come as no surprise .

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1 hour ago, boomervoncannon said:

I want to preface my remarks by clarifying that I have no technical expertise relating to keeping unwanted spam off of a gaming message board. What I do have is 15 years experience reading and posting to any number of gaming forums as a basis for comparison. That experience  does not cast Atlas’s forums in a positive light with respect to the repeated spamming of ads in Chinese that this forum has been subjected to of late. I wish to focus not on the fact the spammed ads are in Chinese, this fact is largely irrelevant to the point I wish to make. Rather I want to comment on what this continued spamming implies to me as a gamer and customer.

The implication is not good. I have never been active on a forum that experienced such prolonged and repeated spamming by what is quite obviously the same outside party continuing to disrupt discussion and use of the forum for legitimate purposes. The impression this creates on me as a customer and member of the Atlas community is that Grapecard is either unable or unwilling to stop this spamming. I have no idea which of these possibilities is true but either is a significant negative to the way I perceive Grapecard as a company and development team.

Here is the obvious logical implication of this problem: If Grapecard is unable or unwilling to accomplish something literally every other forum I have participated in over 15 years has achieved in limiting spam of this type, why should I as their customer have confidence they can secure integrity of game files, accounts, or even my personal information? If someone can repeatedly spam Atlas’s forums with impunity, and Grapecard cannot or will not accomplish the most mundane of community management tasks in curtailing said spam, this cast significant doubt on their ability or willingness to secure the integrity of their game or my account.

Patrons often judge an eating establishment by the cleanliness of their bathrooms, reasoning that the state of the bathrooms is likely a good indicator of the cleanliness of the kitchen. In short, Grapecard’s bathrooms have been made a mess by this spammer, and their failure to shut the spammer down in any way shape or form causes me to question whether I should continue to eat here.

While your assessment is absolutely correct and I commend you for taking the time to write it out in detail, this is not a new.problem in the slightest. Every non-region locked survival game I have played has been PLAGUED by Chinese spam. LiF was the best/worst example, where you would see literally pages of it appear every single night. The mods were regular in their purging of it the next morning,  however it sadly does not matter how many are deleted, more replace it.

China is too large of a revenue stream for the developers to lock out, and captchas do not work with Chinese keyboards. Adding a required time delay between posting or replying on forums is never a good solution, as it leads to people ceasing to use them altogether. 

The best solution is the one that no one wants to suggest because it "sounds mean", and that the devs will never implement because it means added development costs and potentially lost revenue: Region locks.

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1 hour ago, boomervoncannon said:

With Ark I preferred the steam forums to the game's official forums. 

I didn’t get along with too many people over there either lol which is no surprise.

however I did own the game so they had to come up with better stuff to say other than repeating the same thing over and over again.

i did have as much reputation points as even the mods though.

i did own a good pc before because I played wow for quite some time. Not sure what happened really. I just see console as more convenient. I am the type that sits forward on my couch so I think the controller works better for the way I sit. Plus I love my couch. Better than any chair lol

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3 minutes ago, Realist said:

I didn’t get along with too many people over there either lol which is no surprise.

however I did own the game so they had to come up with better stuff to say other than repeating the same thing over and over again.

i did have as much reputation points as even the mods though.

i did own a good pc before because I played wow for quite some time. Not sure what happened really. I just see console as more convenient. I am the type that sits forward on my couch so I think the controller works better for the way I sit. Plus I love my couch. Better than any chair lol

I am kicking myself right now because I just spent 300 dollars on a new computer gaming chair for my pc desk that has built in bluetooth speakers, and a whopping 2800 on a full grain leather recliner for my living room (I have cats and full grain leather is the most durable against pet damage but also the most expensive). It dawned on me after the fact that I will sit in the 300 dollar computer chair far more than the 2800 dollar recliner. Oi vey!

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53 minutes ago, Velius said:

While your assessment is absolutely correct and I commend you for taking the time to write it out in detail, this is not a new.problem in the slightest. Every non-region locked survival game I have played has been PLAGUED by Chinese spam. LiF was the best/worst example, where you would see literally pages of it appear every single night. The mods were regular in their purging of it the next morning,  however it sadly does not matter how many are deleted, more replace it.

China is too large of a revenue stream for the developers to lock out, and captchas do not work with Chinese keyboards. Adding a required time delay between posting or replying on forums is never a good solution, as it leads to people ceasing to use them altogether. 

The best solution is the one that no one wants to suggest because it "sounds mean", and that the devs will never implement because it means added development costs and potentially lost revenue: Region locks.

I am perfectly willing to admit that it's possible that forum spam is more widespread than my personal experience in the past has made me aware. If so, maybe I am making too much of an issue that doesn't really have a good solution. I just find it odd that I've never been on a forum that had this kind of problem, and I've been on gaming forums almost continously for a pretty long time. In any event, I wanted to at a minimum post something to make the mods and the developers aware of how this comes across to their community, or at least one crusty old timer in that community, and to see if others felt the same and what perspective they had to offer. Thank you for offering a different lens and input.

I'm not sure region locks are a good solution for two reasons: They sound likely to amount to throwing the baby out with the bath water. Locking out whole customer bases because of the behavior of a some within that geographic area is likely to amount to a poor business decision unless it can be demonstrated fairly strongly that the problems originating from there are keeping more domestic players away than the customers you'd be losing with the lock. I think Atlas's problems are many and complex and while region locks might encourage some players to return, I am doubtful the numbers would be sufficient to make the lock a positive from a business perspective. This is ignoring any ethical or moral considerations of judging an entire nation or part of the world based on the behavior of a minority. I've heard plenty of stories of abhorrent behavior of Asian players and been victim to some myself, but I've also heard stories of helpful Asians who were good neighbors and members of the game community.

The second reason is that although I have zero technical background, I have heard more than one or two folks say that region locking doesn't work because it can fairly easily be defeated by VPN's or other workarounds. Again I have no clue as to the technical soundness of this argument, merely a notion that if more than one or two people are saying it, there is some possibility it's true.

Edited by boomervoncannon

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25 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

I am kicking myself right now because I just spent 300 dollars on a new computer gaming chair for my pc desk that has built in bluetooth speakers, and a whopping 2800 on a full grain leather recliner for my living room (I have cats and full grain leather is the most durable against pet damage but also the most expensive). It dawned on me after the fact that I will sit in the 300 dollar computer chair far more than the 2800 dollar recliner. Oi vey!

Ah shit. Yeah that doesn’t seem like a good choice you made there lol.

cats are awesome. Way more of a cat person than a dog person. I like their independence.

what are pc controllers like? Can I get one that is exactly like the Xbox controller. Can’t do the mouse and keyboard anymore. Just doesn’t feel right.

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1 minute ago, Realist said:

Ah shit. Yeah that doesn’t seem like a good choice you made there lol.

cats are awesome. Way more of a cat person than a dog person. I like their independence.

what are pc controllers like? Can I get one that is exactly like the Xbox controller. Can’t do the mouse and keyboard anymore. Just doesn’t feel right.

I use a keyboard, but I think you can get controllers these days. Having never used one I couldn't comment on them. I like both cats and dogs but my job has many days that I leave the house at 8am and don't get home til 8pm or even later. Hence I own cats but not dogs.

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10 minutes ago, Realist said:

cats are awesome. Way more of a cat person than a dog person. I like their independence.

 

6 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

I own cats

My daughter is the worlds greatest cat lover, she's only 8, but, pretty much wants to adopt every cat in existence 😄😄    Entirely fault of the mrs and I, we can't be without our fur babies!

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3 minutes ago, Vorxius said:

 

My daughter is the worlds greatest cat lover, she's only 8, but, pretty much wants to adopt every cat in existence 😄😄    Entirely fault of the mrs and I, we can't be without our fur babies!

I still want to do that. Just know I fully understand the cost of doing that 😂

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3 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

...

I agree that the spam is out of control. Although I would be curious what tools are available to combat this. You would think that there HAS to be a better solution that what they are currently implementing. 

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1 hour ago, Realist said:

i did own a good pc before because I played wow for quite some time. Not sure what happened really. I just see console as more convenient. I am the type that sits forward on my couch so I think the controller works better for the way I sit. Plus I love my couch. Better than any chair lol

Consoles are for kids, the other guy the other day was correct on that. I enjoyed mine up until the day I got my first computer. 

 

24 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

I use a keyboard, but I think you can get controllers these days. Having never used one I couldn't comment on them. 

The good news is you can steal your kids x box controller and plug it into your PC. If that's your thing. Studies do show that for things involving aiming, mouse and keyboard are the superior setup regardless of weather you are a PC or a console gamer.

https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-on-windows/accessories/connect-xbox-one-controller-to-pc

https://www.pcgamer.com/mouse-and-keyboard-players-are-destroying-controller-users-in-overwatch-on-console/

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Yeh the spam is annoying.  It also seems that when the spam appears, the servers start crashing as well, likely a ddos attack or similar.

Every forum and dev company has to deal with this issue at some point, prior to ddos attacks at least.

The bot spamming is usally easily dealt with by website admins.

There is one note I'd touch on, it has been shown in the past, that whilst ads might be in either badly written english or in chinese/cantonese whatever it specifically is, does not necessarily mean the spammer/botter is from that location.  They could as equally be from the USA, Russia, UK, France, Holland etc

So we need to deal with the spam.. and yes it affects the community as a whole.  But lets no assume that the criminals targetting the forums are necessarily from a specific location, without absolute evidence to support such accusations.  These kinds of attacks are judged very seriously in the uk and can land you in jail for long periods of time, as spamming, trolling etc lead to loss of profits/suicides and so on.   These criminals doing this, need to be dealt with at the same level as we deal with them in our societies.

Perm Bans should be the minimum penalty.. police interaction is what it really needs.

Edited by Martyn

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This is actually starting to worry me a bit. I have seen the initiative dropping on both the forums and the devs as of late. Sure there are delays which are common place, but it is definitely noticeable 

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15 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

I want to preface my remarks by clarifying that I have no technical expertise relating to keeping unwanted spam off of a gaming message board. What I do have is 15 years experience reading and posting to any number of gaming forums as a basis for comparison. That experience  does not cast Atlas’s forums in a positive light with respect to the repeated spamming of ads in Chinese that this forum has been subjected to of late. I wish to focus not on the fact the spammed ads are in Chinese, this fact is largely irrelevant to the point I wish to make. Rather I want to comment on what this continued spamming implies to me as a gamer and customer.

The implication is not good. I have never been active on a forum that experienced such prolonged and repeated spamming by what is quite obviously the same outside party continuing to disrupt discussion and use of the forum for legitimate purposes. The impression this creates on me as a customer and member of the Atlas community is that Grapecard is either unable or unwilling to stop this spamming. I have no idea which of these possibilities is true but either is a significant negative to the way I perceive Grapecard as a company and development team.

Here is the obvious logical implication of this problem: If Grapecard is unable or unwilling to accomplish something literally every other forum I have participated in over 15 years has achieved in limiting spam of this type, why should I as their customer have confidence they can secure integrity of game files, accounts, or even my personal information? If someone can repeatedly spam Atlas’s forums with impunity, and Grapecard cannot or will not accomplish the most mundane of community management tasks in curtailing said spam, this cast significant doubt on their ability or willingness to secure the integrity of their game or my account.

Patrons often judge an eating establishment by the cleanliness of their bathrooms, reasoning that the state of the bathrooms is likely a good indicator of the cleanliness of the kitchen. In short, Grapecard’s bathrooms have been made a mess by this spammer, and their failure to shut the spammer down in any way shape or form causes me to question whether I should continue to eat here.

6 and a half pages. I think we have a new record lol

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13 hours ago, Realist said:

what are pc controllers like? Can I get one that is exactly like the Xbox controller. Can’t do the mouse and keyboard anymore. Just doesn’t feel right.

Controllers for PC are the same as for consoles. There are a couple controllers out there specifically for PC but 90%+ of people that use controllers on a PC use either an Xbox or PS4 controller.

Xbox controllers have the benefit of working natively on PC, you just plug them into a USB port and they work. Atlas is also designed to work with a controller on PC.

Additionally, most graphics cards come with HDMI ports that you can plug a TV into, and Steam's Big Picture mode is made to be used with a controller on a large TV. If you were so inclined to do so, you could set up your PC pretty easily to function exactly like a beefier console with more power and better graphics. Added bonus: get a wireless keyboard and mouse and you can just tab out of the game and come post on the forums.

Edited by Kidori

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21 minutes ago, Kidori said:

Controllers for PC are the same as for consoles. There are a couple controllers out there specifically for PC but 90%+ of people that use controllers on a PC use either an Xbox or PS4 controller.

Xbox controllers have the benefit of working natively on PC, you just plug them into a USB port and they work. Atlas is also designed to work with a controller on PC.

Additionally, most graphics cards come with HDMI ports that you can plug a TV into, and Steam's Big Picture mode is made to be used with a controller on a large TV. If you were so inclined to do so, you could set up your PC pretty easily to function exactly like a beefier console with more power and better graphics. Added bonus: get a wireless keyboard and mouse and you can just tab out of the game and come post on the forums.

You definitely gave me some things to think about with that. 

Nah, I can’t do the mouse and keyboard anymore. 

The only thing is, I know there will actually be a big influx in players once it hits console, so I can get the full experience. Pc numbers really need to start getting better if I am going to get a pc. Especially since a lot of my buddies have console.

thanks for that info though. It was helpful 

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With exception to some simulator aircraft controllers and wheels for driving games/sims, most pc controllers are cheap trash that rarely last.  Even the ones from decent suppliers like logitech, can't make decent hardware because of licence issues with $ony and Micro$oft.. ultimately, to save grief, it's easier to just use an xbox or ps controller or get a decent m/k.

I prefer the m/k as the controllers are inherently designed for either tiny people or children and I find the controllers fiddly and difficult to use.

As for the spam, it needs officials to wade in on it, I'm sure a visit from their local PAP squad would end the botters lives for a few decades in the mines in siberia.  If it's even chinese actually doing the spam.. most likely someone in eu as in china.

Edited by Martyn

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20 hours ago, Realist said:

I didn’t get along with too many people over there either lol which is no surprise.

however I did own the game so they had to come up with better stuff to say other than repeating the same thing over and over again.

i did have as much reputation points as even the mods though.

i did own a good pc before because I played wow for quite some time. Not sure what happened really. I just see console as more convenient. I am the type that sits forward on my couch so I think the controller works better for the way I sit. Plus I love my couch. Better than any chair lol

Are you saying you could play atlas on your computer? 😄 

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19 hours ago, Chucksteak said:

Consoles are for kids, the other guy the other day was correct on that. I enjoyed mine up until the day I got my first computer. 

 

The good news is you can steal your kids x box controller and plug it into your PC. If that's your thing. Studies do show that for things involving aiming, mouse and keyboard are the superior setup regardless of weather you are a PC or a console gamer.

https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-on-windows/accessories/connect-xbox-one-controller-to-pc

https://www.pcgamer.com/mouse-and-keyboard-players-are-destroying-controller-users-in-overwatch-on-console/

*blinks*

kids?

oh you mean those little stupid people who don’t pay rent?

Nah I don’t have any of those.

They are a wonderful thing for other people to have.

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