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Kast

Disaster Incoming: Ship Harpoons

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I truly hope that Grapeshot reconsiders adding the ship harpoon to the game in the May update (at least on PvP servers). Some of the most enjoyable naval fights we've experienced occurred when we were outnumbered. Being chased by four or five enemy ships, dodging fire, maneuvering for a quick shot and trying to stay ahead of repairs. But with the ship harpoon, one ship gets one hit and the fight's over.

Mark my words, the new meta will be stripped-down max-speed brigs with just a ship harpoon (and maybe a few fire-swivels), followed by one or more max-damage ships. I.e., a single well-balanced ship will never be able to outrun or out maneuver multiple ships: the ship will be tackled (ala EVE) and destroyed.

This is a highly avoidable error. Hopefully they reconsider.

Edited by Kast
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If one or two swift hacks with a sword can break it and it can only attatch on deck or deck structures not inaccessable rigging or lower planks, it could be good.

It all depends on implementation, we shall see I supose.

 

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27 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

If one or two swift hacks with a sword can break it and it can only attatch on deck or deck structures not inaccessable rigging or lower planks, it could be good.

It all depends on implementation, we shall see I supose.

 

 

Even if you are stopped just for a short time (30-60 seconds) that gives the enemy enough time to box you in and make it impossible to escape.

I do like the general idea of it but it really is easy to see how wrong it can go or how it might be "abused". I also have little trust in Grapeshot getting the balance right or preventing things like inaccessible spots.

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1 minute ago, LinkesAuge said:

 

Even if you are stopped just for a short time (30-60 seconds) that gives the enemy enough time to box you in and make it impossible to escape.

I do like the general idea of it but it really is easy to see how wrong it can go or how it might be "abused". I also have little trust in Grapeshot getting the balance right or preventing things like inaccessible spots.

Too True, this is one of those that can so easily be broken right from the start.

Mind you i'm looking forward to seeing if I can tow a brig or schooner " cargo barge" behind my transport gally 🙂

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I think the deciding factor will be how far the harpoon ballista can fly, long range and fights will be ridiculous. 

Now give npc the ability to fire fire arms or use weapons from their inventory and this could be a lot of fun

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4 hours ago, Jack Shandy said:

Too True, this is one of those that can so easily be broken right from the start.

Mind you i'm looking forward to seeing if I can tow a brig or schooner " cargo barge" behind my transport gally 🙂

both ships will be immobile while harpoon is attached. larger ship can just pull smaller to it. 

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3 hours ago, DilBert said:

both ships will be immobile while harpoon is attached. larger ship can just pull smaller to it. 

That sounds like a colossally bad idea, both ships becoming immobile? FFS speed schooners harpooning galleons and allowing other ships to swarm them. That cant end badly or anything....

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19 hours ago, Kast said:

I truly hope that Grapeshot reconsiders adding the ship harpoon to the game in the May update (at least on PvP servers). Some of the most enjoyable naval fights we've experienced occurred when we were outnumbered. Being chased by four or five enemy ships, dodging fire, maneuvering for a quick shot and trying to stay ahead of repairs. But with the ship harpoon, one ship gets one hit and the fight's over.

Mark my words, the new meta will be stripped-down max-speed brigs with just a ship harpoon (and maybe a few fire-swivels), followed by one or more max-damage ships. I.e., a single well-balanced ship will never be able to outrun or out maneuver multiple ships: the ship will be tackled (ala EVE) and destroyed.

This is a highly avoidable error. Hopefully they reconsider.

Considering the last changes to ships, i guess they want people boarding and stealing ships, and it'll be cool if it's well implemented. But if this thing turns out to be an external brake someone can apply on you to slow you down when you are at full speed so their  buddys can easily gank you, it will be a ship fight killer as we know it and probably the end of atlas for many people that's only staying for ship fights like me.

 

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This will be exploited and people will hate it, that’s a fact. Grapeshot is well known to think about 1 scenario and not the other, the one that says ‘Way to exploit’ on it - they usually ignore that one. 

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49 minutes ago, Percieval said:

This will be exploited and people will hate it, that’s a fact. Grapeshot is well known to think about 1 scenario and not the other, the one that says ‘Way to exploit’ on it - they usually ignore that one. 

That sounds fairly accurate. In the live stream, one of them mentions how 'Darksiders will love this - now the Royal Navy can stop those brigands before they escape to the freeport!' They seem to overlook (in a less than RP way) that it will also kill maneuvering in naval combat, not to mention dissuade  captains from taking risks since a harpoon might mean that they can't egress if things go bad.

If they go ahead and implement it, 100% guarantee that they'll have to tweak/nerf/remove it within the first week.

Edited by Kast

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1 hour ago, Kast said:

That sounds fairly accurate. In the live stream, one of them mentions how 'Darksiders will love this - now the Royal Navy can stop those brigands before they escape to the freeport!' They seem to overlook (in a less than RP way) that it will also kill maneuvering in naval combat, not to mention dissuade  captains from taking risks since a harpoon might mean that they can't egress if things go bad.

If they go ahead and implement it, 100% guarantee that they'll have to tweak/nerf/remove it within the first week.

Just add in a timer of 10-30 seconds that ships are still vulnerable to damage after entering a freeport or island. No need for harpoons. 

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well, i could understand something like what was anounced could be usefull for boarding and stealing ships. But if its used to tackle ships at medium/high speeds it will be just stupid, and it will kill the thing that's best desgined in this game. There are ways this could be implemented, like harpoons being only efective at very low speeds, and having a timer before the effect kicks in, so the crew in the ship harpooned could remove it.

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Hopefully the devs see this thread and take some of the comments and things pointed out here into consideration as they move to implement harpoons. 

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None of you guys know exact parameters of this new feature but you know exactly how it will be exploited...

This doomsaying is exactly why they should not announce new features more than a week ago.

 

Edited by Willard

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26 minutes ago, Willard said:

None of you guys know exact parameters of this new feature but you know exactly how it will be exploited...

This doomsaying is exactly why they should not announce new features more than a week ago.

 

Thats the whole point. we dont know the details.  We just especulate with the little info they've provided us, and we are showing our concern with some possible situations that we consider could be bad for actual gameplay. If a game forum cannot be used for that purpose i don't really know why they need a forum to begin with.

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6 hours ago, Willard said:

None of you guys know exact parameters of this new feature but you know exactly how it will be exploited...

This doomsaying is exactly why they should not announce new features more than a week ago.

 

It is pretty easy to see how things will be exploited, people on the forums have had a pretty good track record when saying specific things are a bad idea, when talking about how they can be exploited, then the thing gets implemented and those exact warnings on the forums come to pass.

If the harpoon can bring your ship to a stop or even significantly slow your ship down, that is a major red flag. It is a double edged sword. People will be able to deal with mythic galleons with fully upgraded sails now I guess, they just have to get the harpoon to land and have a few suicide schooners hit the thing with those harpoons and have other ships swarm it.

Edited by Evir

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24 minutes ago, Evir said:

It is pretty easy to see how things will be exploited, people on the forums have had a pretty good track record when saying specific things are a bad idea, when talking about how they can be exploited, then the thing gets implemented and those exact warnings on the forums come to pass.

If the harpoon can bring your ship to a stop or even significantly slow your ship down, that is a major red flag. It is a double edged sword. People will be able to deal with mythic galleons with fully upgraded sails now I guess, they just have to get the harpoon to land and have a few suicide schooners hit the thing with those harpoons and have other ships swarm it.

It will be like ramming, you can´t hook and slow down a gally with a schooner/brig, only the same or lower tier of ships. I think I´ve heard it somewhere. Second thing - your "hooking" boat has to survive. If you build speed brigs/schooners, they will need to survive against a cannons on a ship they are hooking - those cannons will be shooting at stationary target. Good luck surviving. 

Edited by Willard

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3 minutes ago, Willard said:

It will be like ramming, you can´t hook and slow down a gally with a schooner/brig, only the same or lower tier of ships. I think I´ve heard it somewhere. 

From what I have heard that both ships stop, and the larger one pulls the smaller one to it. That doesn't solve the problem.

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10 minutes ago, Evir said:

From what I have heard that both ships stop, and the larger one pulls the smaller one to it. That doesn't solve the problem.

You see? We both heard smt else. We don´t know how it will be. We have no problem because we don´t know how it will work yet. 

Edited by Willard

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4 minutes ago, Willard said:

You see? We both heard smt else. We don´t know how it will be. We have no problem because we don´t know how it will work yet. 

Captainslog 28: May Mega-Update

Stop your fleeing enemies in their tracks and reel them in with the new Boat Ballista Harpoon! Load up your ballistic and fire the projectile, if it successfully attaches you and your target will be unable to move. Reel them in before they destroy the harpoon. You can only successfully harpoon same-or-smaller ship classes.


Ok, so Galleons will be able to destroy all the ships below it,  I can only imagine a galleon with a couple of these snagging a brig then popping all the cannon cooldowns to delete them.

Since galleons are the fastest ships in the game, brigs are screwed. They cant even dodge and are sitting targets. Even if they break the line, Galleons accelerate faster and can unload multiple volleys.

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On 5/22/2019 at 2:22 PM, Kast said:

I truly hope that Grapeshot reconsiders adding the ship harpoon to the game in the May update (at least on PvP servers). Some of the most enjoyable naval fights we've experienced occurred when we were outnumbered. Being chased by four or five enemy ships, dodging fire, maneuvering for a quick shot and trying to stay ahead of repairs. But with the ship harpoon, one ship gets one hit and the fight's over.

Mark my words, the new meta will be stripped-down max-speed brigs with just a ship harpoon (and maybe a few fire-swivels), followed by one or more max-damage ships. I.e., a single well-balanced ship will never be able to outrun or out maneuver multiple ships: the ship will be tackled (ala EVE) and destroyed.

This is a highly avoidable error. Hopefully they reconsider.

True.

Zerg have 200% cannons on their galleons, 1 of those does 10k damage.

1 can harpoon you while other will one shot you.

This game is made for stupid zerg, and soon basically nothing could be done, never mind better skill, against 100 rice farmers with mythical planks and cannons, and now the harpoons so your only ship can not even maneuver against their 10 galleons.

 

Hopefully there will be mechanic to destroy the tether.

Edited by gnihar

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Just now, Evir said:

Captainslog 28: May Mega-Update

Stop your fleeing enemies in their tracks and reel them in with the new Boat Ballista Harpoon! Load up your ballistic and fire the projectile, if it successfully attaches you and your target will be unable to move. Reel them in before they destroy the harpoon. You can only successfully harpoon same-or-smaller ship classes.


Ok, so Galleons will be able to destroy all the ships below it,  I can only imagine a galleon with a couple of these snagging a brig then popping all the cannon cooldowns to delete them.

Since galleons are the fastest ships in the game, brigs are screwed. They cant even dodge and are sitting targets. Even if they break the line, Galleons accelerate faster and can unload multiple volleys.

1) They can destroy your harpoon. 

2) If you want to escape from gally with a brig you can because gally needs half a sector for turning. 

3) If you catch a brig with gally why don´t you just shoot it with broadsides? Why trying to harpoon it too? 

You are making an elephant from a fly 🙂 

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