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vaylain

lighter ships should be faster and more agile Why is the largest ship with full speed sails the fastest ship in the game?

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Posted (edited)

Why are the largest ships equipped with speed sails the fastest ship in the game? This makes little sense in regards to an MMO. As traditionally, the smallest ships are the frailest and defenseless ships in the game but to compensate for this fact they are smaller and lighter and usually offer faster speeds and agility as the trade-off. But in Atlas, the largest ships suffer no negatives, they get to have it all, weight, HP, armor, firepower, agility, and speed.

This makes no sense from the MMO perspective as generally the solo and smaller companies will never be able to viably maintain the largest of the ships. But solo and smaller companies need to be able to rely on speed/agility to survive and flee from the larger ships built for death otherwise your MMO is flawed, allowing only survivability for larger companies and the solo/smaller companies be damned!

As a solo player, I almost always get run-down trying to flee larger ships as I try to salvage wrecks, fish, treasure hunt, transport exotic spices, resources, and creatures, or explore. This is NOT very fun for us players that are NOT trying to have ship-to-ship encounters. Smaller ships should NOT be allowed to equip cannons and turrets but offer greater speeds and agility, allowing better opportunities to escape deadly encounters unscathed.

Edited by vaylain
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1) stop playing on pvp.

2) calling a galleon agile tells me you have never been on one much less driven one.

3) oh and stop playing on pvp.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, pfg said:

1) stop playing on pvp.

2) calling a galleon agile tells me you have never been on one much less driven one.

3) oh and stop playing on pvp.

  1. Just because solo or smaller companies complain about the largest companies getting all of the content and glory, does NOT mean that we do not desire PVP. In fact, I am extremely fond of PVP encounters where I am able to go one-and-one on even grounds where skill matters NOT the size of your company. That is real PVP to me. You pompous ass, you think that only you get to decide whether someone should be playing the game in PVP mode or not? Screw you, I am a paying customer just the same as you are.
  2. Of course, I have not experienced the Galleon, as I had said. I cannot even dream to build one and maintain it as a solo company. This does not change the fact that they always run down smaller ships none-the-less. That was my point.
  3. Oh, good one! Your intelligence is staggering...
Edited by vaylain
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you complain about a core game mechanic you know NOTHING about (and now admit you know nothing about) BECAUSE your on a pvp server - yeah im gonna tell you to not play on pvp.

btw I don't play on pvp.

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5 minutes ago, pfg said:

you complain about a core game mechanic you know NOTHING about (and now admit you know nothing about) BECAUSE your on a pvp server - yeah im gonna tell you to not play on pvp.

btw I don't play on pvp.

You really need to learn to read and troll less sir.

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Posted (edited)

Sail and ship speed need a balance pass. The devs mentioned on the last livestream that's coming. The fact that schooners and galleons are matched in speed is a bit silly.

 

Beyond that I think the game would benefit from a ship cheaper, smaller, lighter and faster than a schooner. Right now the sloop is dead last in speed by a huge margin compared to schooners, brigs and galleons who are all very closely matched. 

Edited by rumthorp
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3 hours ago, vaylain said:

Why are the largest ships equipped with speed sails the fastest ship in the game? This makes little sense in regards to an MMO. As traditionally, the smallest ships are the frailest and defenseless ships in the game but to compensate for this fact they are smaller and lighter and usually offer faster speeds and agility as the trade-off. But in Atlas, the largest ships suffer no negatives, they get to have it all, weight, HP, armor, firepower, agility, and speed.

This makes no sense from the MMO perspective as generally the solo and smaller companies will never be able to viably maintain the largest of the ships. But solo and smaller companies need to be able to rely on speed/agility to survive and flee from the larger ships built for death otherwise your MMO is flawed, allowing only survivability for larger companies and the solo/smaller companies be damned!

As a solo player, I almost always get run-down trying to flee larger ships as I try to salvage wrecks, fish, treasure hunt, transport exotic spices, resources, and creatures, or explore. This is NOT very fun for us players that are NOT trying to have ship-to-ship encounters. Smaller ships should NOT be allowed to equip cannons and turrets but offer greater speeds and agility, allowing better opportunities to escape deadly encounters unscathed.

bold and underline emphasis is mine.

are you nuts?, its is 100% doable for a solo/small company to maintaine a galleon. up until recently, where we gained 3 more members, my 2 man company kept a 2 schooners, 2 brigs, a flag, and a galleon, upkept. how do you do this you ask? run fecking maps. kill whales. easy things to do as a solo company.

as for getting run down, if you aren't able to overcome it or, enjoying pvp takes alot and if you dont enjoy it, cant find alliances or anything like that, dont play pvp. they are correct

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Galleons are a pain when it comes to manoeuvring. They have a very large slow turning circle. If they get in a fight they are only any good if sailing in a straight line. As to being used as a solo or small company? Before the wipe my son and I maintained 2 galleons along with several brigs. Our favourite then as now is still the brig. But we currently own 2 galleons, 4 brigs and 2 schooners. One of the galleons is decked out for war (52 cannons) the other purely for trade (0 cannons). We have a third galleon being built at present. It is possible for the solo or small company to use galleons but I still prefer my brigs. the galleon is ok for long journeys but for short ones its the brig every time.

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I don't play PvP but I'm hoping I can help with some insight that I didn't discover until a couple months into the game.

The shit part about MAINTAINING a Galleon is the cost of the crew.  As a solo or small Company, trying to keep a 58 person crew payed and happy is expensive.

But there is a couple things you can do to make this WAY easier on yourself.  First take the gunners off their cannons, this will increase their time between payments.  Second:  Invest some points into Accomadations.  Putting the first 6-8 levels/points into this skill will reduce the cost of the crew by a HUGE margin.

Playing around with those two items will reduce the cost of your crew to about the same as a loaded and unspecced Brig or Schooner.

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They are simply copying real life, Clipper Ships were the fastest thing on the seas. The bigger the sail boat, the faster it goes. It is called "Hull Speed" and is the result of hull length and width mostly and is also the result of wave size and water displacement. Even today a 50' sailboat will go faster than a 40' sailboat, all other thins being equal.

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50 minutes ago, CoopedUp said:

I don't play PvP but I'm hoping I can help with some insight that I didn't discover until a couple months into the game.

The shit part about MAINTAINING a Galleon is the cost of the crew.  As a solo or small Company, trying to keep a 58 person crew payed and happy is expensive.

But there is a couple things you can do to make this WAY easier on yourself.  First take the gunners off their cannons, this will increase their time between payments.  Second:  Invest some points into Accomadations.  Putting the first 6-8 levels/points into this skill will reduce the cost of the crew by a HUGE margin.

Playing around with those two items will reduce the cost of your crew to about the same as a loaded and unspecced Brig or Schooner.

Did you think about just throwing them overboard every day and then resupplying with a base crew of 10? They are free for the first 24 hours, and I'm sure 10 of them guys can keep your cannons and 3 sails going while you recrew.

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7 minutes ago, gadefence said:

Did you think about just throwing them overboard every day and then resupplying with a base crew of 10? They are free for the first 24 hours, and I'm sure 10 of them guys can keep your cannons and 3 sails going while you recrew.

*throws Gadefence overboard and replaces him with a dolphin, a talking monkey and a volleyball with a face painted on it.*

 

 

 

 

I know what you’re thinking and no his name’s not Wilson. That would be unoriginal.

 

It’s Voit.

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Light doesn't mean fast.

At least this was the way in old Russian pirate game (called Corsairs). There were around 25-30 ships in the game all separated to 6 classes. From smallest 6th to huge linen ships 1ts class. And guess what? The fastest ship was actually in the middle. If I remember it right - it was 3rd class and ship called "Corvette". This one was pretty well armed and incredibly fast.

pic4.jpg

(I personally wish to see this one in a game. 10 gunports and fast travel. This one was my favorite in Corsairs)

To think about it. It's not just about size and weight. It's about compromise between size, weigh and rig (sails equipment). Most efficient compromise must be somewhere in the middle. Because lighter boats have weaker sails, and heavier - just to heavy : )

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17 minutes ago, George Catcher said:

Light doesn't mean fast.

At least this was the way in old Russian pirate game (called Corsairs). There were around 25-30 ships in the game all separated to 6 classes. From smallest 6th to huge linen ships 1ts class. And guess what? The fastest ship was actually in the middle. If I remember it right - it was 3rd class and ship called "Corvette". This one was pretty well armed and incredibly fast.

pic4.jpg

(I personally wish to see this one in a game. 10 gunports and fast travel. This one was my favorite in Corsairs)

To think about it. It's not just about size and weight. It's about compromise between size, weigh and rig (sails equipment). Most efficient compromise must be somewhere in the middle. Because lighter boats have weaker sails, and heavier - just to heavy : )

Most games have frigates as the faster ships.

Basically, frigate, corvette, clipper - what we really need more then anything is bigger more realistic sails and more sail types.

35 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

*throws Gadefence overboard and replaces him with a dolphin, a talking monkey and a volleyball with a face painted on it.*

 

 

 

 

I know what you’re thinking and no his name’s not Wilson. That would be unoriginal.

 

It’s Voit.

Joke's on you.

I didn't cost any money, and on accounts of being a fat vegan, I float and the sharks won't eat me since I taste like mushrooms.

Meanwhile, your dolphin can't man the sails, your monkey's throwing poop on the deck, and the volleyball stole your wife.

lol the good life, /floats in the water

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21 minutes ago, gadefence said:

Most games have frigates as the faster ships.

Basically, frigate, corvette, clipper - what we really need more then anything is bigger more realistic sails and more sail types.

Joke's on you.

I didn't cost any money, and on accounts of being a fat vegan, I float and the sharks won't eat me since I taste like mushrooms.

Meanwhile, your dolphin can't man the sails, your monkey's throwing poop on the deck, and the volleyball stole your wife.

lol the good life, /floats in the water

*blinks*

Wife?

What makes you think I’d ever afflict myself with one of those?

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1 hour ago, boomervoncannon said:

*blinks*

Wife?

What makes you think I’d ever afflict myself with one of those?

Ahahah a smarter man than most!

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Galleons arnt agile.... turning them is like performing a reach around on a fat chick. The reason bigger ships go faster is because they can break the waves. A schooner would get punished and anything else would likely not survive a storm.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, vaylain said:

Why are the largest ships equipped with speed sails the fastest ship in the game? This makes little sense in regards to an MMO. As traditionally, the smallest ships are the frailest and defenseless ships in the game but to compensate for this fact they are smaller and lighter and usually offer faster speeds and agility as the trade-off. But in Atlas, the largest ships suffer no negatives, they get to have it all, weight, HP, armor, firepower, agility, and speed.

This makes no sense from the MMO perspective as generally the solo and smaller companies will never be able to viably maintain the largest of the ships. But solo and smaller companies need to be able to rely on speed/agility to survive and flee from the larger ships built for death otherwise your MMO is flawed, allowing only survivability for larger companies and the solo/smaller companies be damned!

As a solo player, I almost always get run-down trying to flee larger ships as I try to salvage wrecks, fish, treasure hunt, transport exotic spices, resources, and creatures, or explore. This is NOT very fun for us players that are NOT trying to have ship-to-ship encounters. Smaller ships should NOT be allowed to equip cannons and turrets but offer greater speeds and agility, allowing better opportunities to escape deadly encounters unscathed.

Just a question, why do you play on a PvP server if you are playing alone and have no desire in conflicts with others? It seems a bit silly to be honest. 

In reality smaller ship doesn't mean bigger speed, why should it mean in game?

For now the fastest solution for you is to switch to PvE server.

Edited by Willard

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Posted (edited)

Willard, I have always chosen to play on PVP as I rather enjoy opportunities for an equal PVP encounter. I also appreciate the sense of risk that a PVP server bears. I detest large companies merely "Ganking" smaller to solo companies out of the simple fact of griefing. Ganking/griefing is just a douche thing to do as it offers no real value to a PVP mmo but I do realize that some folks just cannot maintain themselves and must flex their "epeen". You sound like you got one of the biggest epeens in the game and it must be troll hard...

But this has nothing to do with my original post. I had said that in most traditional MMOs, the smaller ships, be it wooden boats on the ocean or space ships, etc. tend to be swifter and more agile and the larger ships tend to provide more damage, armor, and muscle.

At the very least, what I am trying to convey is that there needs to be separation from heavy, fully loaded ships built for combat and lighter ships which sacrificed their armor, hp, and firepower to promote faster speeds and agility. Unfortunately, in Atlas, there is no such separation. The larger ships built for dominance and combative punishment also maintain the superiority of faster speeds. This, I feel is not right and should be looked into.

The lighter boats streamlined for speed and agility should be faster and the bigger and heavier boats built for damage and tanking should be slower.

Savvy?

Edited by vaylain

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, AntonyVW said:

Galleons are a pain when it comes to manoeuvring. They have a very large slow turning circle. If they get in a fight they are only any good if sailing in a straight line. As to being used as a solo or small company? Before the wipe my son and I maintained 2 galleons along with several brigs. Our favourite then as now is still the brig. But we currently own 2 galleons, 4 brigs and 2 schooners. One of the galleons is decked out for war (52 cannons) the other purely for trade (0 cannons). We have a third galleon being built at present. It is possible for the solo or small company to use galleons but I still prefer my brigs. the galleon is ok for long journeys but for short ones its the brig every time.

My issue is NOT building such a ship solo, it is keeping it safe from griefers as I go to sleep (or work) and the expensive costs to pay for such a large crew. I do not have an easy method for cash flow as a solo player and I rather detest sailing. It is extremely boring but I do enjoy ship salvaging, treasure hunting, exploration, and spice trading while on a PVP server. On a PVE server, it bears no risk and PVE'rs tend to be boring. I just prefer that Atlas would offer a fast ship that is NOT built for combat but built to avoid PVP encounters while at sea.

Edited by vaylain

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17 hours ago, WayneKinne said:

They are simply copying real life, Clipper Ships were the fastest thing on the seas. The bigger the sail boat, the faster it goes. It is called "Hull Speed" and is the result of hull length and width mostly and is also the result of wave size and water displacement. Even today a 50' sailboat will go faster than a 40' sailboat, all other thins being equal.

This is a pretty good summary of it.

This is all just my opinion on the ships as they currently are:

Galleons are actually right about where they should be.

The brigantine should turn slightly slower, as it’s pretty agile for a larger ship. The brigantine should also have an extra gun port or two to be better balanced between the galleon and schooner.

Schooners should be a bit slower than a brigantine, but turn tighter.

Sloops need an small increase to their turning speed when sailing at speed. If you don’t depower the sails, they turn almost like a galleon.

The bigger changes need to happen to the sails.

Speed sails are far too effective when off the wind. They have a 150 degree arc that they can be most effective at, and that’s with them only being at peak power when directly with the wind. They should start to drop off significantly when more than 5 to 10 degrees off of the wind, and give the lowest effective speed into the wind. Say 10% speed into the wind.

Handling sails are actually in an ok place, I think. If speed sails were less effective when off the wind, then they would really start to come into their own. These should give the 30% speed into the wind.

Weight sails would be more effective if instead of adding addition weight to the ship, they instead reduced the movement penalty for carrying more weight. Working the same as the armour speed modifier. Top speed should be the same as a handling, but have a similar effective profile to the speed sails. These should give a 15 to 20% speed into the wind.

With these changes, speed sails are most effective with the wind, handling sails are more effective off the wind, and weight sails reduce the penalty of carrying more weight.

Currently, I see little reason to use anything except speed sails. Unless your ship is meant for combat, when handling may give you an advantage for sail turning speed and requiring less effort to keep with the wind for better agility.

This is all just my opinion though, as I certainly haven’t tried out every scenario with every ship and sail combination.

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Posted (edited)

mass and energy is equivalent IRL

and

F = m . a

so i don't understand this post. a gally should be slowest in speeding up/turning and then the fastest ship known in atlas, even faster than 18 knots.

Edited by photek

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4 hours ago, vaylain said:

My issue is NOT building such a ship solo, it is keeping it safe from griefers as I go to sleep (or work) and the expensive costs to pay for such a large crew. I do not have an easy method for cash flow as a solo player and I rather detest sailing. It is extremely boring but I do enjoy ship salvaging, treasure hunting, exploration, and spice trading while on a PVP server. On a PVE server, it bears no risk and PVE'rs tend to be boring. I just prefer that Atlas would offer a fast ship that is NOT built for combat but built to avoid PVP encounters while at sea.

Schooners were made for you, they are the fastest, most maneuverable ship in the game if you don't load them to the gills with cargo. You'll like them even more once they add the cargo container attachment in the next patch. You just need to live with the ~2000 kg limit on cargo space for your trading until then.

As many have said, Galleons cannot maneuver AT ALL. I am not exaggerating when I say it takes 2+ minutes to execute a 180 degree turn with a fully speed sailed Galleon. Ever wonder why you see so many abandoned SoTD wrecks all over the place? Galleon drivers don't want to waste 5 minutes executing a 360 degree turn to pick anything up and get back on course.

Don't be the cartoon character who runs straight away from the rolling boulder, just turn and laugh as it shoots by. If he has Schooner support, then you have a real problem, but at least you have the option to only fight the Schooner with a quick turn into favorable wind.

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if i wanna turn with a sloop with a medium speed sail and sails 100% open, i can't. i have to reduce to 50% and then turn.

you think, is there a difference between turning with 200 mph or with 50 mph?

 

in this case, maybe you have so much force on you rudder that you can not turn more?

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Sleepinator2000 said:

Schooners were made for you, they are the fastest, most maneuverable ship in the game if you don't load them to the gills with cargo. You'll like them even more once they add the cargo container attachment in the next patch. You just need to live with the ~2000 kg limit on cargo space for your trading until then.

As many have said, Galleons cannot maneuver AT ALL. I am not exaggerating when I say it takes 2+ minutes to execute a 180 degree turn with a fully speed sailed Galleon. Ever wonder why you see so many abandoned SoTD wrecks all over the place? Galleon drivers don't want to waste 5 minutes executing a 360 degree turn to pick anything up and get back on course.

Don't be the cartoon character who runs straight away from the rolling boulder, just turn and laugh as it shoots by. If he has Schooner support, then you have a real problem, but at least you have the option to only fight the Schooner with a quick turn into favorable wind.

I always built sloops as my ships tend to get destroyed by griefers nightly but I have come to understand that it is not really the ship's speed that makes the difference, it is the ability to turn faster and get back up to top-speed that makes the difference and that I may be better off in a schooner with the new, "cargo accessory" instead of a meager sloop.

Thank you for the advice/info, much appreciated.

Edited by vaylain

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