Jump to content

PSA to Xbox players regarding low FPS Read more... ×
Unable to gain experience points in Freeports? Read more... ×
uli

Devs please rethink the sub locked behind kraken

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, CoopedUp said:

Trade.  Same way I have two Crabs without a sub or taming skill.

Most trading takes place outside of the game, this involves 3rd party websites/discord servers. It should be obtainable by solo and small groups without having to do this, it's the same principle.

Just for the record, I'm not in a small company and I'm pretty content with how I play the game. I partake in trading etc but that doesn't mean ignoring how others play the game because I play differently is how the game will improve. It's got to be a even playing field for people but still rewarding, advocating that is how we will get the best game possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Broadley27 said:

Most trading takes place outside of the game, this involves 3rd party websites/discord servers.

Yes, but not ALL trading.  Both of our crabs were obtained entirely in game with no 3rd party applications.

My company is a smaller company, with maybe 7 or so active members and a few in the wings.  I get why some people are upset that the sub is locked behind the Kraken wall, but I also get that the sub is not NEEDED to do anything.  It's a reward for spending additional time in the game and completing a challenge.  It's the same for all the new quests and their reward skills.  You don't see anyone complaining about any of them being unobtainable by a solo person.

Everything you can do with the sub can be done with a dive suit and the new underwater mount, the sub just makes some of it easier and people want it because it is a showy new toy I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't just need to be even for megas/small/solo though, it needs to be even for the different roles that can be played in the game.  So far, everything but discovery exp calls for  the same mechanic - sail somewhere, kill some big thing, get a "thing".  That's going to get old real quick:

July mega update -  defeat the giant jellyfish and get access to a dungeon entered via giant clam.  Tame a brontorabbit.

Aug. mega update - kill an undersea elemental that spawns 100 seahorses, and get access to an oil rig.  Tame a snail.

Sept. mega update -  kill a reskinned krakamental with 30 people  and then  go to an island in the sky.    Tame a moosaroo.

 

Where's the hard mode crafting levels that only a handful of people in the game might ever achieve that lets them build and sell the best ships, or make the food and armor that really allows someone to live in polar regions?  Where's the randomly occurring exploration surprises?  Where the beautiful building options for hard mode builders only?

The people calling for "hard mode" are only considering the "hitting some creature with a stick" part of the game, (and truth be told, it doesn't sound like they're finding that part all that hard anyway), but they're getting all the building and crafting in super easy mode.  Let's jack up the other side of the game too.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, CoopedUp said:

 

Everything you can do with the sub can be done with a dive suit and the new underwater mount, the sub just makes some of it easier and people want it because it is a showy new toy I think.

The quests don't contain an entirely different way to play the game and until the new tame comes in nothing will compare because regardless of if you can do most of the things with the diving suit it is far less enjoyable to use and isn't an entirely new vehicle for people to enjoy but we will need more information on how obtainable this tame will be. 

Until there is a REAL alternative to what the submarine brings people will complain because it is placing it behind a barrier that may not be accomplishable by small groups and if they intend to maintain the barrier then like you I hope the tame will make up for this.

Give us ship cosmetics as a reward that is seemingly lacking in the game, give us a whole new level of gear crafting, weapon crafts, ship crafts, unique themeds cosmetics, things that separate players but not isolating them from areas of the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

Where's the hard mode crafting levels that only a handful of people in the game might ever achieve that lets them build and sell the best ships, or make the food and armor that really allows someone to live in polar regions?  Where's the randomly occurring exploration surprises?  Where the beautiful building options for hard mode builders only?

To be fair they actually have a lot of this in the game, it's just that crafting and exploration has never revolved around a players skill and instead has and probably always will be a TIME investment.

I mean do you know how many Discovery Points you need to get the 50% exploration quest done?  It's a staggering amount, and I about choked when I looked it up.  And the high end food is amazing, but it's a time investment that not many people will bother with.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Broadley27 said:

Hidden phases and extra bosses such as Illidan appearing at the end of the Gul'dan fight etc are a valid point; however the only difference here is they only dropped cosmetic differences (the mythic Gul'dan mount here) and again something that doesn't separate people,  titanforging heroic, normal or even lfr gear scales the gear gap and most gear is from dungeons in WoW these days. Deemed stupid though? The player base has been complaining about LFR since it's launch and it hasn't been changed, nothing has been changed to take content away from players that drastically change game play, this is entirely cosmetic changes which has been the case since Challenge Mode was introduced in WoD. If you're making a comparison to something that can effect game play like a submarine your argument would be if Blizzard locked sea mounts behind a boss fight in Cataclysm which was never the case.

As I said, cosmetic and blueprints would be more acceptable just like WoW do to their hidden phases and secret bosses.

The submarine is arguably game changing for the previous mentioned reasons, even more so if we get more expansions around The Trench and under water exploration is increased. 

The game needs to be a fair balance between all groups with rewarding options for playing any way you see fit as some people just won't have enough time to sink in but those who can may be rewarded with their fair share of loot that doesn't take away from people playing the game in a certain way.  

You can spec into the poor man's submarine.

https://atlas.gamepedia.com/Diving_Attachment

This is the non-cosmetic submarine. You can do the same thing as a submarine. I had a guy with his 8/9 essence a week into release of 1.5 (he was not 9/9 cause I told him not to cause I didn't want him to summon the 2.0 before we even fought the 1.0) 😕

As for WoW in Vanilla it was run the dungeons to get access to the raids then you needed to run the other raids to progress further. The gear tiered up aswell and you didn't get the next area unless you worked for it. The closest thing to the submarine would be the Phoenix (which was a 310% when it came out) which was locked behind raid content. LFR does not let you in unless you have a certain gearscore which would be like putting a level requirement on powerstones (I wouldn't mind this actually need to be 51 for powerstone 1 then 52 for powerstone 2). To actually get into the different difficulties of the raids you need to meet a gearscore or an achievement criteria for most pugs. I won't go into what a cutting edge guild application required 😄 Now with this in mind though. You needed to play with other people to get access to raid content even for dungeons, the limiting factor here is grouping up. So what you are saying is somebody should be able to play WoW solo and have access to everything (no 5 man's either cause that is grouping) To me if you don't group up in an MMO YOU are the reason YOU arn't getting the "whole game".

~Lotus

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Are they testing the subs in EA or the Kraken that unlocks it?   If your testing stuff in EA...shouldn't it be available for testing?  I have never heard of a EA game content locking stuff that they want tested.   Or is this really a game being developed live and the excuse for bugs and bad design is that it's EA?

Edited by sgzeroone
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lotus said:

 

As for WoW in Vanilla it was run the dungeons to get access to the raids then you needed to run the other raids to progress further. The gear tiered up aswell and you didn't get the next area unless you worked for it. The closest thing to the submarine would be the Phoenix (which was a 310% when it came out) which was locked behind raid content. LFR does not let you in unless you have a certain gearscore which would be like putting a level requirement on powerstones (I wouldn't mind this actually need to be 51 for powerstone 1 then 52 for powerstone 2). To actually get into the different difficulties of the raids you need to meet a gearscore or an achievement criteria for most pugs. I won't go into what a cutting edge guild application required 😄 Now with this in mind though. You needed to play with other people to get access to raid content even for dungeons, the limiting factor here is grouping up. So what you are saying is somebody should be able to play WoW solo and have access to everything (no 5 man's either cause that is grouping) To me if you don't group up in an MMO YOU are the reason YOU arn't getting the "whole game".

~Lotus

30% speed does not equate to game play locking. Vanilla is notoriously easier than the current live game with only leveling, legendary drop rates, gates of AQ and gold making being the real challenge. I've been in cutting edge guilds, I got cutting edge during Legion which this game has nothing like so there is literally no point of reference here. LFR is gated by a minimal gear score of basic heroic dungeon gear, current expansion also bypasses this with Warfronts and world content. My point was there are systems in place in WoW which allow for solo players to actually do content  without heavily relying on others, this involves LFR and LFG as they are literally a click of a button without need for prior organisation or punishing you for playing differently from others doing that content. Getting into groups you need a good Raider.io score for Mythic + at current, which is automatically calculated without the player even needing to know about it so this also is a non-issue for solo players. 

Regardless, as I stated earlier, content is not limited with anything outside of cosmetics in the current game as they have learnt that is preferable,  this isn't even going into the catch up mechanics WoW has every tier for new players to keep up with top end gear. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, CoopedUp said:

I mean do you know how many Discovery Points you need to get the 50% exploration quest done?  It's a staggering amount, and I about choked when I looked it up.  And the high end food is amazing, but it's a time investment that not many people will bother with.

I know!  It's almost like they ought to reward a submarine for it or something 😉

23 minutes ago, CoopedUp said:

To be fair they actually have a lot of this in the game, it's just that crafting and exploration has never revolved around a players skill and instead has and probably always will be a TIME investment.

They don't though.  Anyone can do pretty much any of the crafting they want.  Some of the stuff nobody wants to do that much because it's not that useful.  They should make it more useful.  I can't count how many times I've heard someone say they wish they could have a goal of being the best shipbuilder in the game.    Well, there's only a few kinds of ships, almost everyone can build them, and even the best aren't all that different from the worst.  

The mistake started with the skill tree.  It's a mess, really, and the idea that you have to be able to build something to use it isn't good.  There should just be 2 main skill trees - survivalism (things you can do), and construction (things you can build), and everything should hang off those.  Both skill trees need to be equally rewarded in the game, they both need to be very deep, and somewhat hard-mode.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, sgzeroone said:

Are they testing the subs in EA or the Kraken that unlocks it?   If your testing stuff in EA...shouldn't it be available for testing?  I have never heard of a EA game content locking stuff that they want tested.   Or is this really a game being developed live and the excuse for bugs and bad design is that it's EA?

PTR had the sub for a while then it bugged so they removed it. You could just build it though

16 minutes ago, Broadley27 said:

30% speed does not equate to game play locking. Vanilla is notoriously easier than the current live game with only leveling, legendary drop rates, gates of AQ and gold making being the real challenge. I've been in cutting edge guilds, I got cutting edge during Legion which this game has nothing like so there is literally no point of reference here. LFR is gated by a minimal gear score of basic heroic dungeon gear, current expansion also bypasses this with Warfronts and world content. My point was there are systems in place in WoW which allow for solo players to actually do content  without heavily relying on others, this involves LFR and LFG as they are literally a click of a button without need for prior organisation or punishing you for playing differently from others doing that content. Getting into groups you need a good Raider.io score for Mythic + at current, which is automatically calculated without the player even needing to know about it so this also is a non-issue for solo players. 

Regardless, as I stated earlier, content is not limited with anything outside of cosmetics in the current game as they have learnt that is preferable,  this isn't even going into the catch up mechanics WoW has every tier for new players to keep up with top end gear. 

The sub is just a faster divesuit that is overpriced to repair and adds a lot of weight. Vanilla was easier in terms of mechanics but was far more difficult in terms of timesync, RNG, and complete lack of knowledge of encounters. Some times you would spend a whole night in 1 dungeon and it was glorious. The thing about it though was if you couldn't do things like that you could not get into even the early raids of Ony and MC which you needed to do both to progress into BWL. AQ you could just walk into but you needed a nature resist set to beat huhuran. Naxx 40 was something that I have yet to find reproduced.

 Again though I want you to remove ALL grouping from WoW then say a solo player can do it. This includes LFR and LFG cause you are grouped with somebody. Occasionally a broken class can solo this content when they out gear it. Currently for the Kraken you can solo it if you have a good full masterwork ship at level 40+ you can not solo WoW raids that are current content.

 

~Lotus

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

update to my earlier post....

i went to h8 tonight in my standard brig.......first time of trying i went to the whirlpool thing...then all of a sudden im seeing a massive kraken....and sods...and human players and a new style wall.....(instance border)......after 35 mins the job was done..

hell i even used the measly 180 cannon balls i had and took out 3 tenticals....

 

as soon as it dies i saw the notification on screen ect........and got the hell out of there and headed home...(after some sail repairs)

also have a rather odd lookin kraken hat thing

 

tomorrow all igot to do is grab another 2 types of metal for ingots and prob do my gem bit at freeport...then bang...i got a sub of my own..

 

its a game lads.....game it

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

What's the problem guys? TO kill a Kraken today you have to stay in line cose there is actual line of companies and alliences waiting . Join one of the group if you do not want to bother with playing the game - that is it. We srr so many strangers while killing Kraken...

Edited by Elena

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Elena said:

What's the problem guys? TO kill a Kraken today you have to stay in line cose there is actual line of companies and alliences waiting . Join one of the group if you do not want to bother with playing the game - that is it. We srr so many strangers while killing Kraken...

You realize there's more than one server, right?  There's currently 364 people on mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So? join that one full. With weekend rates rebuild company is not a task at all.

  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Elena said:

So? join that one full. With weekend rates rebuild company is not a task at all.

No thanks.  I've not complained about the wipes so far, but I'm not about to take another personal self-inflicted one.

Edited by Winter Thorne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

For the people making the wow progression comparrisons earlier, I feel I should point out that they don't lock that sort of content behind raiding.

Raiding and high end content is used to lock the best and most desirable gear; in atlas terms mythics and mythos. Submarines are more akin to flying or diving mounts or airship travel, tools that expand and change the ways you can interact with the world.

Very few mmos lock stuff like travel methods behind the ultimate raid. Even ff14 only requires you to fully explore a zone on foot, before you can fly there and many consider that unreasonable. The Kraken isn't exploration, its not even a story boss; its a raid

Edited by RyuujinZERO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, RyuujinZERO said:

Raiding and high end content is used to lock the best and most desirable gear; in atlas terms mythics and mythos. Submarines are more akin to flying or diving mounts or airship travel, tools that expand and change the ways you can interact with the world.

WoW also locks superficial things like faster mounts and such behind raid progression.

We're expressing that if the sub is akin to a "diving mount" then so is the diving suit since it allows you to explore and go to the same places that the sub does (and mostly likely the new turtle tame as well).  So they aren't locking the ONLY "diving mount" behind the Kraken, they are locking the FASTER "diving mount" behind the Kraken.  Same as WoW.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Locking the sub and thus all of the content one could experience after acquiring the sub behind a wall only serves to create a major technological divide between lesser companies and the alpha companies. This is something the ARK devs would do, don't fall into this pitfall, it is a bad design/game decision.

==================================================================================================

 

45 minutes ago, CoopedUp said:

WoW also locks superficial things like faster mounts and such behind raid progression.

We're expressing that if the sub is akin to a "diving mount" then so is the diving suit since it allows you to explore and go to the same places that the sub does (and mostly likely the new turtle tame as well).  So they aren't locking the ONLY "diving mount" behind the Kraken, they are locking the FASTER "diving mount" behind the Kraken.  Same as WoW.

I am not fond of WoW's system of locking high-end content from most of the community. Not everyone is a no-lifer, unemployed, or little kid without responsibilities. Many avid players are adults with careers, bills, and families to take care of and play this game in a casual capacity and we should NOT be punished by this aspect as we are paying customers too.

They are not only locking that particular diving mount but most importantly, they are locking a KEY diving mount with mechanical claws and an onboard weapon system. Big difference from all of the other diving mounts that you have argued.

Edited by vaylain
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

one could even argue that the main quest of this game the power stones is only accesable to larger companys , yes we all know it can be done by smaller companys  with plenty of naked runs and waiting for another larger company to do the kills , or using glitches , so again a lot of the content is locked away to larger alpha companys ,unless a workaround is used same as obtaining the  sub 

this game has no real grouping or social system within the game , all the players that say well get a group then .using forums to advertise for  a group to do such and such content then arranging a chat system discord or other is far too long winded and clunky and even beyond some peoples abilitys,

 how about the devs add a proper group finding system into the game this would go a long way to helping out solo / smaller companys and would open up the game to a much larger play base ,

this is meant to be an mmo massive multiplayer online game , the only part that that massive is the alpha companys , to which the devs seem intent on having only them play their game and any content they add .

 

Edited by UDO
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, UDO said:

one could even argue that the main quest of this game the power stones is only accesable to larger companys , yes we all know it can be done by smaller companys  with plenty of naked runs and waiting for another larger company to do the kills , or using glitches , so again a lot of the content is locked away to larger alpha companys ,unless a workaround is used same as obtaining the  sub 

this game has no real grouping or social system within the game , all the players that say well get a group then .using forums to advertise for  a group to do such and such content then arranging a chat system discord or other is far too long winded and clunky and even beyond some peoples abilitys,

 how about the devs add a proper group finding system into the game this would go a long way to helping out solo / smaller companys and would open up the game to a much larger play base ,

this is meant to be an mmo massive multiplayer online game , the only part that that massive is the alpha companys , to which the devs seem intent on having only them play their game and any content they add .

 

An LFG system would be helpful. Almost all the zones I sail through have only a scarce amount of players in it. I am not sure where all of the Atlas players are actually hanging out. From my experience, this game seems as if there is no actual population. Used to feel a lot more active and has been dwindling down considerably since the wipe last month.

Edited by vaylain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LFG/LFR option would be great. I can't say anything about WoW was an EQ1/2 player myself. I do miss the chaos of EQ1's raids. I can't go back to hardcore raiding of EQ2 with the avatars.

On NA PVE im a solo player. Yep I die a lot but most things I seem to be able to accomplish on my own. 

At times I do miss the whole grouping thing. Hopefully they will bring in a grouping option for dungeon crawls so i'm not forced into joining a company etc.

I can't say im opposed to companies-I just have a different play style. Most people want to go out and defeat everything the first week. Myself I like to meander around, explore, build and then kill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/7/2019 at 6:05 AM, UDO said:

...the more content they release that  exludes solo / small groups from the less their player base will grow...

So, are you suggesting the game have different rules for smaller companies than large ones?  Like if your company is 3 people or less, you just get everything without working for it, but those folks who can work together get... to work harder?

Sorry, doesn't make sense to me, and I'm in a 2 person company.  The game already allows you to get the power stone pretty easy... only requires one stone to get the submarine... 

There should be something available to folks who are able to do more... because they work together as a large group, or work very well as a small group, or whatever it is.  Without challenge, the game loses all interest.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Myk said:

 

There should be something available to folks who are able to do more... because they work together as a large group, or work very well as a small group, or whatever it is.  Without challenge, the game loses all interest.

Do more of what?  And why does "doing more" always have to have a cast of thousands?  I am able to "do more" because I don't mind putting in the time, I'm stubborn enough to see it to the end, and I don't care if takes me a long time to do it.  But then, my "more" isn't about killing the kraken.

The game has a huge amount of the skill tree devoted to crafting, but there's no reward for making some kind of extremely difficult masterwork.  It also has a lot to do with taming (although some people aren't crazy about that), and where's the big reward for doing some impossible taming feat?  What are the in-game rewards for being the best pvp groups on the pvp servers?  The game is about exploration, and where are the big exploration rewards?

The problem is that the game only rewards big groups of people who want to go kill boss mobs.  That's only one of the many activities promised in the game, and yet it's the only one that gets new unlocked features and locations.

People in small groups and solos don't expect to be able to run out and kill the kraken on any odd Tues. they choose to do it, but they should expect that there would be some big difficult task they can do and be rewarded for.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, RyuujinZERO said:

For the people making the wow progression comparrisons earlier, I feel I should point out that they don't lock that sort of content behind raiding.

Raiding and high end content is used to lock the best and most desirable gear; in atlas terms mythics and mythos. Submarines are more akin to flying or diving mounts or airship travel, tools that expand and change the ways you can interact with the world.

Very few mmos lock stuff like travel methods behind the ultimate raid. Even ff14 only requires you to fully explore a zone on foot, before you can fly there and many consider that unreasonable. The Kraken isn't exploration, its not even a story boss; its a raid

Your diving suit is your flying mount and the submarine is a better version of it.

 

5 hours ago, CoopedUp said:

WoW also locks superficial things like faster mounts and such behind raid progression.

We're expressing that if the sub is akin to a "diving mount" then so is the diving suit since it allows you to explore and go to the same places that the sub does (and mostly likely the new turtle tame as well).  So they aren't locking the ONLY "diving mount" behind the Kraken, they are locking the FASTER "diving mount" behind the Kraken.  Same as WoW.

I think they believe that there's something in the trenches you can't get with a diving suit. (which I had 2 guys with 8/9 essence before we even did 1.0 this time around) (I told them to not get 9/9 cause I didn't want stupid crap to happen, which it did 😕)

 

I don't know what people think is locked behind having a submarine.

 

The submarine does not prevent any current content but the polar dungeon... well...

https://gyazo.com/e16e6d4c6ea22d6dee8c5d25204820dd

That I can not currently speak about.

~Lotus

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Lotus said:

Your diving suit is your flying mount and the submarine is a better version of it.

 

I think they believe that there's something in the trenches you can't get with a diving suit. (which I had 2 guys with 8/9 essence before we even did 1.0 this time around) (I told them to not get 9/9 cause I didn't want stupid crap to happen, which it did 😕)

 

I don't know what people think is locked behind having a submarine.

 

The submarine does not prevent any current content but the polar dungeon... well...

https://gyazo.com/e16e6d4c6ea22d6dee8c5d25204820dd

That I can not currently speak about.

~Lotus

lotus u need to stop posting here as these kind of discussions do not concern you as you are in a larger mega company that has  done / can everthing the game has to offer in your large company , this thread is about locking content away from solo and smaller companys so your opinion in this matter doesnt really count 

 

the devs have stated they want the game to be set towards all group sizes yet so far all end game content unless glitched or cheesed  is only doable in the correct way by large companys , the game has at this time no in game group finder to find similar like minded group to do the content at any given time , the devs want this game to flourish they need to start looking at the the player base that makes up the majority which contrary to what u megas think isnt you .

if they insist on making the content the way it is then there needs to be a fluid group finder system implemented into the game mmo = massive multiplayer . nothing massive about the game unless u include megas egos which are constantly bring stoked by the devs adding content designed around them 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

Do more of what?  And why does "doing more" always have to have a cast of thousands?  I am able to "do more" because I don't mind putting in the time, I'm stubborn enough to see it to the end, and I don't care if takes me a long time to do it.  But then, my "more" isn't about killing the kraken.

The game has a huge amount of the skill tree devoted to crafting, but there's no reward for making some kind of extremely difficult masterwork.  It also has a lot to do with taming (although some people aren't crazy about that), and where's the big reward for doing some impossible taming feat?  What are the in-game rewards for being the best pvp groups on the pvp servers?  The game is about exploration, and where are the big exploration rewards?

The problem is that the game only rewards big groups of people who want to go kill boss mobs.  That's only one of the many activities promised in the game, and yet it's the only one that gets new unlocked features and locations.

People in small groups and solos don't expect to be able to run out and kill the kraken on any odd Tues. they choose to do it, but they should expect that there would be some big difficult task they can do and be rewarded for.

well said

Edited by UDO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×