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Devs please rethink the sub locked behind kraken

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As title, 

Please reconsider the very odd decision. To lock such a staple item in a sea-based game behind end game.bosses, all this leads to is a lot of players not able to access a large amount of game content, 

For pve players the more content they have the longer they will stay around, are u going to lock end game dungeons behind some odd boss kill or collection of 1000 keys from the kraken? No then why lock the sub away from a high proportion of the player base 

One thing I have also noticed is a lot of players especially pve just wait for a kraken attempt  and hang about outside the barrier to unlock the sub, is this good game design? No 

And before all the usual get a group and do the kraken arrive , its possible to do yes ,but not everyone has the time to build the necessary ships and have the gold to crew it, and organise an event, they may also have trouble in social situations, 

 

Tldr: reconsider the sub locked behind kraken 

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Posted (edited)

Yes, please. My friends only came back to this game just  cause of the new underwater based content.. but we are a small group and we just want to explore and not worry too much about boss fights. Having the only new major content that was advertised pre-wipe get locked behind a boss fight is not really nice.. we really do not want to redo all our progress we had on old content with nothing new to go along with it while at it. It is just boring.

Edited by Jester

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i have to agree with one of the points u raised about a lot of solo / small companies are just sailing to the barrier and waiting for the kill , this isn't good gameplay if solo / small companies are doing this to unlock the sub ,   i myself could have gotten it this way over the weekend if the game wasn't crashing a lot since the last patch ,

so i do agree remove sub unlock from kraken and place it somewhere else ? maybe X amount of sotd kills for skill to unlock  , have the skill as a drop from the sotd , this would A give solo players a chance to get it and B add another reason to go hunting sotd ..which to me is a win for the devs and win for solo / small groups .

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Just join a group that does it ?
Kraken is killed many times per day.
You don't have to join company, or alliance, just to be there in time.
Look at the forum to know when people does it, and join them during the fight 🙂

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I generally welcome people to join us when we do it. Last weekend we had a rather large turnout but posting it publicly lead to a group repeatedly summoning it to grief us. My requirement is to have a boat with weapons on it so you can help do damage to things.

The Kraken does not gate you from exploring the trenches you can just use a dive suit. You can also still tame crabs using the dive suit it is just more difficult.

As a game Atlas is an MMO and is not meant to be solo/duo the difficulty (kraken 1.0 is soloable btw, not easy but doable) for those that don't want to be that hardcore I posted that I was setting up a kraken run and had over 100 players want in. You don't need to have a big tribe to do this just be open to talk to other people and set it up. So to me the gate of the submarine and the gate of the polar dungeon are both acceptable because when you unlock it you will get a sense of accomplishment that adds a depth of satisfaction to this game.

~Lotus

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lotus said:

I generally welcome people to join us when we do it. Last weekend we had a rather large turnout but posting it publicly lead to a group repeatedly summoning it to grief us. My requirement is to have a boat with weapons on it so you can help do damage to things.

The Kraken does not gate you from exploring the trenches you can just use a dive suit. You can also still tame crabs using the dive suit it is just more difficult.

As a game Atlas is an MMO and is not meant to be solo/duo the difficulty (kraken 1.0 is soloable btw, not easy but doable) for those that don't want to be that hardcore I posted that I was setting up a kraken run and had over 100 players want in. You don't need to have a big tribe to do this just be open to talk to other people and set it up. So to me the gate of the submarine and the gate of the polar dungeon are both acceptable because when you unlock it you will get a sense of accomplishment that adds a depth of satisfaction to this game.

~Lotus

Similar happened to a group on Sunday, started kraken just for the hell of it ,there are some real asshats about 

 

On the mmo side yes it is, but the sub was heavily advertised and featured in the forefront for the big update then to find out locked behind end game boss for no reason at all other than because they can is denying basic content to a large majority, 

Did u not read the op a lot of people enjoy mmo but due to what ever social inadequaties are unable to join groups , so resort to in my opinion to a glitch by just being outside the barrier to unlock the sub, that is the only way a lot of players will ever get the sub, 

If the devs are going  to continue down this road of solely group content then they will never see any significant player base growth, 

The devs need to think about what they are  adding and how to not exclude solo and small 2-3 man companies from any new content, it would great to have the same content I.e a dungeon and have it instanced so that large groups can go in on harder settings, solo/ small groups can go in on easier ones taken could have been done like this there is a barrier anyway so there could be been different setting for it. 

Wow does this very well with their dungeon system time for the devs to stop making and using the system they designed for ark and start thinking like they are actually developing an MMO which co we players of all types from solo to mega companies 

 

Player base growth is achieved by designing all content to all player types ,

 

 

 

Edited by uli
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2 hours ago, globytheoldpirate said:

Just join a group that does it ?
Kraken is killed many times per day.
You don't have to join company, or alliance, just to be there in time.
Look at the forum to know when people does it, and join them during the fight 🙂

U didn't read the thread did u ?

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53 minutes ago, uli said:

Wow does this very well with their dungeon system time for the devs to stop making and using the system they designed for ark and start thinking like they are actually developing an MMO which co we players of all types from solo to mega companies 

Very poor reference here.  WoW used to and still does lock all it's best gear and Legendaries behind boundaries that require larger raid GROUPS and a higher time investment, none of it's best gear is accessible to a small group of players.  It's actually worse then what it was, WoW had MORE players back when raids used to require more coordinated and organized groups before the LFR system.  Either way NONE of the best gear or content in WoW is solo/small group based.

The sub is NOT required for you to do anything, therefore it does not need to be opened up to every player automatically.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, CoopedUp said:

Very poor reference here.  WoW used to and still does lock all it's best gear and Legendaries behind boundaries that require larger raid GROUPS and a higher time investment, none of it's best gear is accessible to a small group of players.  It's actually worse then what it was, WoW had MORE players back when raids used to require more coordinated and organized groups before the LFR system.  Either way NONE of the best gear or content in WoW is solo/small group based.

The sub is NOT required for you to do anything, therefore it does not need to be opened up to every player automatically.

wrong , crab taming , ,whale hunting , exploring , salvaging wrecks  it makes life easier so why would it be excluded from solo players ? do they not deserve to have the same experience in the game as so called megas  ,  to lock all of this behind a boss kill is quite frankly poor design , as uli has written what's next the new advertised dungeon only available and doable for large groups?

the more content they release that  exludes solo / small groups from the less their player base will grow , my betting is the dungeons they have announced wont be doable by small groups , they seem intent on designing everything for large groups despite posting that they are working towards making the small comapny solo experience better . 

there poor game design shows through when solo / small companys are just leeching the kraken kill by being in the zone , they want the sub and at the moment its the only way to get it if as uli has posted there social skill are lacking ,  

 

 

Edited by UDO
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i agree...i play solo mainly ...but have a few mates that i hook up with for laughs ect.....we went and got all the stuff to make the bloody sub..then found out they still have it behind a kraken wall....i thought they cancelled that idea?

so if i want to unlock it what do i have to do?...can i just hang around the krakens tile and steal a win if i holla in chat?...im sure peeps wont mind.

do i have to get those power stone cobblerws before hand just to see kraken?...or can i go straight there?

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Posted (edited)

Every MMO has locked content behind some kind of wall. It can be gear, it can be quest, it can be, in our case, Kraken. Thats the nature of mmo games, you feel progression. If there isn't any locked content this feel of progression is lost. And no, trench isn't basic content, sotds, hydras, dragons, artifacts, kraken, thats the basoc content.

Solo players / small tribes don't have to kill Kraken themselves if they insist of playing alone (i don't know why they want to play alone an MMO but ok) and they don't want to do some politics and kill it together with other tribes. Go to the barrier and leech it. Its the way how to do it. 

But guys, stop demanding this game to be balanced about solo players. Difficulty can't be set according to solo players, it's not the way MMO works. 

Edited by Willard

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Hello,

I suggest keeping the skill locked behind the kraken but adding blueprints on SOTDs.

Best regards.

Albibak

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Rewarding end game content with better blue prints/cosmetics to stand out makes more sense than having a submarine locked behind it. I saw the analogy to WoW further up but experiencing different ways to play the game isn't something Blizzard have locked behind difficulty and is perfectly doable by solo players/small groups with the LFG system however they separate it with time gating releases on things like LFR and preventing forging scaling high enough before mythic release, gear wise you can get the best gear from a dungeon or heroic raid as you can from a mythic with their titanforge system so comparing the two things here couldn't be any more different and completely obsolete (on top of the entirely different game models plus instanced dungeons for players etc.) 

I think if the reward should remain from Kraken then allow private instancing for the event to prevent players spawning the Kraken to annoy players trying to do it issue, otherwise unique cosmetics and blueprints with a drop % that encourages multiple kills would definitely be the best investment from boss fights plus assist solo players in getting kills if bigger groups have a reason to keep running it and would also help the economy if selling these sought after blue prints was possible.

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1 hour ago, Willard said:

Every MMO has locked content behind some kind of wall.

I don't mind when games make some things difficult.  I do mind when a game that's supposed to be about surviving, crafting, sailing, exploration, and more chooses to only reward smacking things over the head or blowing them into tiny bits.  Where are the higher level, higher tier crafting and exploration endgame goodies?  The sub would have fit easily with either of those things but instead it's just another hackNslash prize.

Come on, devs, use a little imagination and dig deeper on some of those other game elements.

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2 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

I don't mind when games make some things difficult.  I do mind when a game that's supposed to be about surviving, crafting, sailing, exploration, and more chooses to only reward smacking things over the head or blowing them into tiny bits.  Where are the higher level, higher tier crafting and exploration endgame goodies?  The sub would have fit easily with either of those things but instead it's just another hackNslash prize.

Come on, devs, use a little imagination and dig deeper on some of those other game elements.

Submarine doesn´t help you with endgame goodies at all. Not with higher level, not with high tier crafting. 

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Agree with Lotus above on the higher end content (Kraken in this instance). 

If they just gave everyone everything easily people would stop playing the game after a few weeks. You need to put a little work into the game for the higher end content and advancement.

The advanced content is not meant to be done solo (though it can be with enough work). It's not hard to use Global or coordinate on the forums to find a group that is killing the Kraken. You don't even have to engage it just be close. It's more fun to actually engage and help and you might die, but hey, that's part of the learning experience. 

Also, you can solo kill whales and even the Hydra. All you need is a ship and a crew. You can literally solo every single Powerstone by participating in a hydra or dragon kill (or even solo Hydra by kiting in the water on a ship) and sailing to the different powerstone caves for turn in. But it will take some time and investment.

Just play the game and enjoy the early adventures. Go explore and collect materials. Then upgrade your ship, cannons, and sails by fighting SOTD's. Start with greens and upgrade to Fine items and then move up through Masterwork. This is what an MMORPG is about. Once you get some decent upgrades you can solo a lot of things, even the Kraken.

 

 

I'm going to go a little bit philosophical on your asses here. You can continue reading and profit from my 43 years of life wisdom or you can stop reading now.

I know we all play games to escape the toughness of real life. Sometimes It is fun to turn on God mode and increase spawn rates to obscene amounts and get everything in easy mode, but that enjoyment is short lived. Once I've done that the game becomes boring quickly. True enjoyment and satisfaction comes from working hard, solving problems, and learning from your mistakes and then finding success. But if you are too afraid of failing, then you've already lost and might as well quit trying. My best gaming memories are not of me roflstomping/godmoding through content but rather are from me getting my ass (along with friends asses) handed to me over and over but not giving up but then finally succeeding. The hard you work for something, the more satisfaction you get out in the end.

One of my professions is as a Collegiate Volleyball Coach. I've seen a lot of kids in my life go from teenagers to working adults. I can tell you from experience, the ones that are the most successful as adults are not the ones that had all the talent and just breezed through College, it's the ones that put in the work. 

 

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3 hours ago, CoopedUp said:

Very poor reference here.  WoW used to and still does lock all it's best gear and Legendaries behind boundaries that require larger raid GROUPS and a higher time investment, none of it's best gear is accessible to a small group of players.  It's actually worse then what it was, WoW had MORE players back when raids used to require more coordinated and organized groups before the LFR system.  Either way NONE of the best gear or content in WoW is solo/small group based.

The sub is NOT required for you to do anything, therefore it does not need to be opened up to every player automatically.

This guy actually knows the business end of WoW 😄

Easier game = bad for business. All content being done and no goals will cause the game to go stagnant and lose players.

3 hours ago, UDO said:

wrong , crab taming , ,whale hunting , exploring , salvaging wrecks  it makes life easier so why would it be excluded from solo players ? do they not deserve to have the same experience in the game as so called megas  ,  to lock all of this behind a boss kill is quite frankly poor design , as uli has written what's next the new advertised dungeon only available and doable for large groups?

the more content they release that  exludes solo / small groups from the less their player base will grow , my betting is the dungeons they have announced wont be doable by small groups , they seem intent on designing everything for large groups despite posting that they are working towards making the small comapny solo experience better . 

there poor game design shows through when solo / small companys are just leeching the kraken kill by being in the zone , they want the sub and at the moment its the only way to get it if as uli has posted there social skill are lacking ,  

 

 

crab taming  <-- You can do this with a dive suit (it was done day 1 on PvP)

whale hunting <-- This is done with a cannon schooner (ballistas suck now)

exploring <-- Dive suit

salvaging wrecks <-- I just get naked and jump off (highest I have seen is a 15 and it's trash)

 

I can put an extreme case in here and say skill trees should be removed to make it easier for solo players. This way they can have tames, build boats, structures, guns, armor, music, etc by themselves.

 

As for the sub itself... The sub is not something you want if you can't allocate a decent amount of time to the game. I was excited when we got ours but it's basically a galley that bleeds your resources. Schooners of the damned seem to just smash it with shots then to repair I now need to keep gems, crystal, and extra alloy.

 

As for content. All current content in this game is soloable if you put enough time into it. This requires more time than if you were in a group though so the complaint could be it should be doable the same by solo as a big tribe. That would make this a co-op game not an MMO.

 

All 20 powerstones may or may not be the gate for the polar dungeon. The polar dungeon may or may not be the source of the flying ship.

 

As for the people leeching maybe having it require the first 9 for the sub was a good thing and the change should be reverted.

 

1 hour ago, Broadley27 said:

Rewarding end game content with better blue prints/cosmetics to stand out makes more sense than having a submarine locked behind it. I saw the analogy to WoW further up but experiencing different ways to play the game isn't something Blizzard have locked behind difficulty and is perfectly doable by solo players/small groups with the LFG system however they separate it with time gating releases on things like LFR and preventing forging scaling high enough before mythic release, gear wise you can get the best gear from a dungeon or heroic raid as you can from a mythic with their titanforge system so comparing the two things here couldn't be any more different and completely obsolete (on top of the entirely different game models plus instanced dungeons for players etc.) 

I think if the reward should remain from Kraken then allow private instancing for the event to prevent players spawning the Kraken to annoy players trying to do it issue, otherwise unique cosmetics and blueprints with a drop % that encourages multiple kills would definitely be the best investment from boss fights plus assist solo players in getting kills if bigger groups have a reason to keep running it and would also help the economy if selling these sought after blue prints was possible.

WoW wanted content available for all. The idea was no lore should be locked behind difficult raids. That idea was deemed stupid and they then started adding hidden phases / extra bosses to the harder raids.

 

 

I guess a long story short. The game needs to be made harder not easier. You can choose to be in a tribe that does stuff of be a solo player and not do stuff.

The only thing they need to look at are elementals because if they have a weakness I would love to know it.

~Lotus

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54 minutes ago, Willard said:

Submarine doesn´t help you with endgame goodies at all. Not with higher level, not with high tier crafting. 

I wasn't saying it helped you with those.  I'm saying it should be the reward for some crafting or exploration feat.  Not for beating up another monster.

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28 minutes ago, Lotus said:

I guess a long story short. The game needs to be made harder not easier. You can choose to be in a tribe that does stuff of be a solo player and not do stuff.

 

Yes it should be a bit harder, but, right now, most of the things are not hard, they are annoying. Golden Age ruins are annoying, I have done a couple and there is not much of a challenge, you just need to get to a high place and kill the bullet sponge creatures or try to avoid them. 

Having 2 golems blocking the entrance to a power stone cave is not hard, is just annoying, most of us just do naked runs to bait the things out of the cave, I have seen that mostly nobody cares about bringing equipment, and the ones I have seen that do bring equipment usually end up losing it.  The other day some guys brought several tames to kill the hydra, they failed and ended up on a cliff just sniping the thing, it wasn't hard after that, it was just annoying. 

 

I don't think the sub should be locked behind the kraken, maybe behind the powerstones.

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1 hour ago, Lotus said:

The only thing they need to look at are elementals because if they have a weakness I would love to know it.

I'm wondering what/if anything that new Elephant-Camel tame will do to a Fire Elemental if you spray it in the face with a bunch of water.  Would be funny to see someone try it.

And I think they need to make it so pickaxes do major critical damage to Rock Elementals, huge risk getting that close to one but they should reward a Pathfinder that's brave enough to try going toe to toe with it.

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1 minute ago, CoopedUp said:

And I think they need to make it so pickaxes do major critical damage to Rock Elementals, huge risk getting that close to one but they should reward a Pathfinder that's brave enough to try going toe to toe with it.

This is how we get naked spam with pickaxes xD

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1 hour ago, Lotus said:

 

WoW wanted content available for all. The idea was no lore should be locked behind difficult raids. That idea was deemed stupid and they then started adding hidden phases / extra bosses to the harder raids.

Hidden phases and extra bosses such as Illidan appearing at the end of the Gul'dan fight etc are a valid point; however the only difference here is they only dropped cosmetic differences (the mythic Gul'dan mount here) and again something that doesn't separate people,  titanforging heroic, normal or even lfr gear scales the gear gap and most gear is from dungeons in WoW these days. Deemed stupid though? The player base has been complaining about LFR since it's launch and it hasn't been changed, nothing has been changed to take content away from players that drastically change game play, this is entirely cosmetic changes which has been the case since Challenge Mode was introduced in WoD. If you're making a comparison to something that can effect game play like a submarine your argument would be if Blizzard locked sea mounts behind a boss fight in Cataclysm which was never the case.

As I said, cosmetic and blueprints would be more acceptable just like WoW do to their hidden phases and secret bosses.

The submarine is arguably game changing for the previous mentioned reasons, even more so if we get more expansions around The Trench and under water exploration is increased.

The game needs to be a fair balance between all groups with rewarding options for playing any way you see fit as some people just won't have enough time to sink in but those who can may be rewarded with their fair share of loot that doesn't take away from people playing the game in a certain way.  

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6 minutes ago, Broadley27 said:

The submarine is arguably game changing for the previous mentioned reasons, even more so if we get more expansions around The Trench and under water exploration is increased.

Except that they are adding an underwater mount that will allow even solo and small group players to explore those areas and well.  Just with the sub it's smaller, sleeker, more manueverable, and can stay down in those regions longer.

Thus, the sub is not needed and is just another means to achieve the same things that others will be able to do with the mount.

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23 minutes ago, CoopedUp said:

Except that they are adding an underwater mount that will allow even solo and small group players to explore those areas and well.  Just with the sub it's smaller, sleeker, more manueverable, and can stay down in those regions longer.

Thus, the sub is not needed and is just another means to achieve the same things that others will be able to do with the mount.

Invalid argument till we are aware how we obtain them.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Broadley27 said:

Invalid argument till we are aware how we obtain them.

Trade.  Same way I have two Crabs without a sub or taming skill.

Edited by CoopedUp
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