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Daemon Cross

Tenant and taxes

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Ok, I didn’t play in the EU pve server so I really didn’t have much to comment on but here is my take thus far on the claim system.

IT SUCKS !!!

   1st of all being a landowner is great, I was able to obtain a 15 point island and I have one tenant whom I consider a friend. 

  The island cost me 76 gold every 12 hours (I think), you can spend time gathering floatsom to pay that cost or do a treasure map or two. 

Now the issues are that taxes are charging everyone who gathers materials from the island 20% cost which is the max now, the downside is that the flag doesn’t require materials but it requires gold, so unless someone does a treasure map on my little island then the taxation doesn’t help a bit in the upkeep of the flag.  Having more tenants may reduce the cost of the upkeep but to be honest just two of us can keep the island bare of resources just building what we want to build at the current gathering rates. I cleared almost every tree off building a sloop which the re-spawn rate isn’t horrible but it’s not great either.

  Now I could cancel the taxes while we are building or divide the mats up in the flag accordingly between the two of us but knowing her she wouldn’t take them and I wouldn’t use them because she wouldn’t.

  There is no simple solution, limited claim flags only helps so far because then you are limited to building where you choose to place your claim flag, now with this system you try to keep someone else from building where you want to build or you don’t want anything built which in turn makes the landowner the villain.   

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You don't actually tax people's resources, only gold. The tax is additive, so everyone that farms on your island gets 100% of the resources, and you get basically commission.

Having more people on the land doesn't reduce the cost exactly, it will always cost 76 gold for you, but the 12 hours between payments gets bigger the more people you have on your land.

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Well, I disagree.

We're also a 2 man tribe, also picked off a small island.  It is plenty for us to play the game, relax, and enjoy.

Yes, there is a gold upkeep.  Yes you have to play the game to own the land.  Yes you have to log on and maintain it.

I think this is a huge step forward from Ark, or even earlier Atlas attempts, where in PvE folks could claim land and just sit on it forever, leading to stale maps.  This is nice, if people are playing and enjoying - they can easily afford their own land.  If not - well, someone else can grab it.

Again - in PvE, Person X on your island gathers 100 wood if tax is 0 or 20% doesn't matter.  The only change is magical, free resources appear in your bank.  There is no downside to taxes, only an upside.

I know you're a bit of a forum warrior, Damion, but really, this system does not suck at all.

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I remember the first launch.

 

Rushing in a raft to claim a small chunk of rock near some resources.... if sailing out of a rubberband freeport counts as "rushing'

Having to build a stone house, with no windows, and foundations in a circle around the main house, to prevent folks from killing me  by dragging wolves to my base while I'm logged off, or shooting me with fire arrows while I sleep.  

Not being able to leave your claim because if you do - then someone can flip it instantly, since its buggy as hell...

 

This "sucked."  What we have now?  It is a far, far cry from those early days.  Now I can go sailing and not worry.  Now I can build a reasonable base, not a PvE stone bunker. 

 

This is light years better my god man.

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I remember those days of the claim griefing, the lag and everything else.

  I am the landowner of the island and for me it’s great, just like having a claim, only difference is now I have a gold cost. 

    I don’t mind the gold cost because I can fill the flag up to cover any amount of time that I need for a vacation. For a new player entering the game and dealing with asshat landowners will be the downside.  

   As you all stated, I do play the game and I’m active in the forums as well. I’m not trolling but wanted to point out some ideas new players needed to think about and what I was going through as a landowner in case they wanted to go that route. 

  Out of time

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Lunch time,  ok as I was saying if your the owner of an island and your going to let people build where and how they want them I’d say most people living there will be content, however if your one of those who doesn’t want tenants or having to deal with policing the island but you want your own island then it may be hard for others who want to settle on that island.

   Yeah I know you can just move to another location, I mean they can’t be all bad.  Again though you are still dealing with a landowner and other tenants.  

When you had claim flags then in your claim there was nothing to deal with if you didn’t want to. You had rules you could place down for your claimed area that was    just the same as policing your island now. 

   Now everyone is going to come back and say there was no land and people could sit on a claim for months by just logging out on the claim, well they fixed that, they was working on the claim flag expiration timer and if they would have limited the claim flags then that would have solved the land issues.

    I don’t mind the upkeep cost the way that is now, yes it’s going to require people being more active but at the same time once they build up enough gold in the flags then there isn’t much to worry about if you decide to stop playing for awhile.

   My fear is trying to maintain the upkeep cost and then the crew cost of a Galleon being a solo player. But I guess it’s doable because I maintained it before with little issues.

Edited by Daemon Cross

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I agree, trying to get reclusive, PvE, solo or "circle of friends" folks to share is challenging.

We are offering an eco-friendly, tax-share situation for any new folks who want to live on our island, because:

1 - it would help us out.  We'd appreciate the lower gold cost per tick, and we'd enjoy the free resources
2 - by eco-friendly, we mean, ocean facing cliff platforms, no resource blocking, shared facilities (taming, garden, forget, etc...) so the island stays clean. 
note: We follow the same rules we ask of our settlers.
3 - tax share, we split 50/50 the free resources with our residents, so everyone profits.

My hope is that by establishing a relationship, where its obvious everyone is benefiting, we can help folks feel more secure.

I do hear you about the gold being tight, and I expect the upkeeps cost to be tweaked - but I can also see how that same upkeep could be a great conflict driver in PvP, so I like that...

Still, the two of us were able to farm over a weeks "rent" so we can chill and wait till next weekend to get back into it, 2 lowbies and a bear - gotta figure that will get easier as we get levels, so yea... running a crew forever would be nasty - but keeping 1 NPC as a cleanup guy, and just hiring crew to man the guns when you're sailing?  They should pay for themselves...  

I dunno, it will remain to be seen if neckbeards can survive in a close space together.  As a fellow neckbeard, I am curious to see 🙂

 

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4 hours ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

You don't actually tax people's resources, only gold. The tax is additive, so everyone that farms on your island gets 100% of the resources, and you get basically commission.

Having more people on the land doesn't reduce the cost exactly, it will always cost 76 gold for you, but the 12 hours between payments gets bigger the more people you have on your land.

No, the resource gathering is taxed. So if I were to chop 100 wood, I get 80, land owner gets 20. We checked and there is indeed a difference between lawless and taxed areas.

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6 minutes ago, =MGC=Ranger said:

No, the resource gathering is taxed. So if I were to chop 100 wood, I get 80, land owner gets 20. We checked and there is indeed a difference between lawless and taxed areas.

No there isn't. I was on claimed land that had 12% tax, I chopped down a tree and got 86 wood. When NA PvE opened the owner unclaimed the island and left. During that time I would still get 86 wood. Then a day or so later someone else claimed the island and set 10% tax, still get 86 wood. of course it varies from tree to tree, but it doesn't get taxed as there was no difference whatsoever during the period the island was unclaimed.

Maybe lawless is different somehow from settlements, but it's not the tax that causes it.

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Dunno, but 3 of us did the same thing in lawless and claimed at 20% tax and there was a 20% loss. We even verified exactly 20% loss with a calculator. This is on PVE EU (since NA wasnt out we started on EU). We also had a base on an unclaimed Isle and once it got claimed at 20% tax, we had a loss (which is why we decided to test it in the first place). This is what made us leave the island and go to a lawless. Its fine, W/E we decided paying gold every day for a claim wasnt worth it anyways, but the whole design of the claim system is complete crap and not very well thought out. 

 

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2 minutes ago, =MGC=Ranger said:

Dunno, but 3 of us did the same thing in lawless and claimed at 20% tax and there was a 20% loss. We even verified exactly 20% loss with a calculator. This is on PVE EU (since NA wasnt out we started on EU). We also had a base on an unclaimed Isle and once it got claimed at 20% tax, we had a loss (which is why we decided to test it in the first place). This is what made us leave the island and go to a lawless. Its fine, W/E we decided paying gold every day for a claim wasnt worth it anyways, but the whole design of the claim system is complete crap and not very well thought out. 

 

Maybe you tested it before it got changed to "additive" tax as per the patch notes?

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This tax and ownership thing is a big deal for me and with opposing views and difference explanations, it is confusing. I try to read all the log's and forums to understand how things work, but just as this post is an example, we have resources are and are not taxed. Which is it ?

I don't like the current systems. I agree the first claim system stunk. The one we have now is too limiting. Not enough small islands to go around. I was one of the first ones on the EU-PVE servers. Being a solo player, I couldn't build fast enough or gather gold quick or travel fast enough, to own a small island. Sure I suck as a player but with 800 hours on Atlas and 6700 hours on ARK, I am a dedicated player and love this game. There is now three of us in company and that gives us 34 company points. One short of a 35 island. Using that as an example, its my understanding that a 35 island costs 99 gold to by and 198 for upkeep (is that amount for 12 or 24 hours). If that is correct, with the current 1x harvest rate it's not that easy paying for upkeep. Most of the buried ones are less than 100 g, the sunken treasures are 40-80 g, and the float-ems are useless. When you sink SOTD you get 10-20 g, and with the time and materials to do all those in combination, it is not easy as a solo or very small company to own an island. In addition you are paying maintenance cost for a crew to outfit your Brig or Galleon, with enough canons and crew to be able to sink a fleet of SOTD.

So, we don't own an island, so what. So we pay taxes to someone to live on their island,  why? Why do we have to pay taxes? Why is there even a tax system? Why cant we just play pirate? What benefit is there for a tax system in a PVE game? It's not a PVT (tax) game.

I will acknowledge that the upkeep is one way to eliminate someone for claiming an island and never playing other than checking in every 21 days. Is there a better way?

Please don't tell me to live on lawless and put up with the foundation spammers. Been there, done that. I have seen people on claimed island doing the same thing to keep people away from their area. Don't blame them to some extent, but I'm for firm boundaries, because fences make good neighbors.  

I guess this is what happens when you have a game designed for big companies, made into a PVE game, that allows solo players to join in. OR, you have a sucky players, playing a game that requires skill.

ok , Log #26:

- Max Tax rate on PvE set to 20%, and is only additive on PvE (doesn't reduce the taxee's resources)

What is an additive tax?

 

 

Edited by gumbyc

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4 minutes ago, gumbyc said:

- Max Tax rate on PvE set to 20%, and is only additive on PvE (doesn't reduce the taxee's resources)

What is an additive tax?

In response to this and your other question about which is it, well additive tax means the resource obtained through tax is added resources, which is resources added by the game. When a tenant farms they still get 100% of the resources, and the settlement owner gets 20% added resources, or whatever they set tax too. This is only on PvE though, on PvP resources are deducted through tax.

On PvE, the only thing you get taxed on, i.e. you get a reduction on is gold from treasure hunts.

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Thanks GUYBRUSH

That is a big change from the way it was. So, as a tenant there is no down side to living on an island  owned by someone else. We don't really pay anything. It just magically goes to the owner. As far as the owner goes, he get resources from the game, gets whatever percentage from gold treasure found on his island, and gets to pay for upkeep.

It seems there is no big advantage to owning an island, only if you have a lot of tenants and want to do a lot of building.  No big treasures on his island, and nobody treasure hunting on it means he has to come up with upkeep cost another way.

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Well the only downside to living on someone's settlement claim is the fact that the owner has a window of 24 hours to demolish newly built structures. That is the only downside. But i've only seen 2 reports so far of people claiming this has happened, and although that sucks, 2 is very small for the number of islands that are claimed.

I've had 2 different settlement owners on my island and neither have been a problem. In fact my current settlement owner came over for a visit today and looked around, no problems at all.

There's no huge advantage to owning an island. Yes you can tax people for gold hunts, but that gold is needed for the claim upkeep so it's not really going in anyone's pocket. Also all settlement owners should have responsibility of keeping the island clean and to me that is a downside to owning an island. The other upside is that no-one can demolish your structures because you are the owner.

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On a 35 point island is it 99 G to buy and 198 G for upkeep? Is the upkeep initially 198 G for 12 hours? Game time or real time?

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2 hours ago, gumbyc said:

On a 35 point island is it 99 G to buy and 198 G for upkeep? Is the upkeep initially 198 G for 12 hours? Game time or real time?

to buy is the same as upkeep per 12 hours. this is of course extended the more tenants you have IE: our 24 point island was 128 to claim, and is 128 per 12 hours. so 256 a day

 

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Just curious, I'm aware the 'tax' doesn't touch harvested resources, but does it affect treasure hunting?  I'm hoping when we go-a-huntin' that we keep 100% of the treasure, and 20% magically appears as commission to the land owners.   Losing 20% on booty is a tough hurdle to climb.

However if we do get 100% we'll probably make more effort to visit claimed islands as a sort of appreciation for keeping chest zones free of enclosures.

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1 minute ago, Vorxius said:

Just curious, I'm aware the 'tax' doesn't touch harvested resources, but does it affect treasure hunting?  I'm hoping when we go-a-huntin' that we keep 100% of the treasure, and 20% magically appears as commission to the land owners.   Losing 20% on booty is a tough hurdle to climb.

However if we do get 100% we'll probably make more effort to visit claimed islands as a sort of appreciation for keeping chest zones free of enclosures.

Gold is taxed unfortunately, from what i've heard people do lose gold when hunting on taxed islands.

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Just now, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

Gold is taxed unfortunately, from what i've heard people do lose gold when hunting on taxed islands.

It's good to know.  Thanks Guybrush.   My only beef with that is sometimes one has to travel a long way to scoop the more lucrative treasures.  Losing 20% of that is a heavy sting.  i.e. losing 600 gold from 3k is a heavy hitter when you just sailed half the map.  In PvE, 600g is several weeks of crew pay.  When you have a choice of two maps, next to each other.. one you lose 600g (per person in the team) and the other you keep the 600...  We should be going to the claimed one, to support the islanders.. but, reality doesn't always work that way..

I'm sure GS can bring it inline with the resource philosophy...   that way people will not have this reservation.

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As a solo player I was unable to claim a cheap island on either EU or NA despite being on within hours of the server coming online. Just not fast enough to beat out the company players.

So, once again I live on Lawless.

There is no advantage to living on claimed land versus living on Lawless. 

And somehow being on Lawless feels more like being a pirate (even tho I cannot really be a pirate in this pirate game).

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