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Sulfurblade

Tired of the Stupid Looking Maneuvering Sails

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We need the Maneuvering Sail to be removed from the game!

And two different sail types to take its place!

Gaff Sail with and or without Gaff Top Sail Depending on points spent

and

Lanteen Sails

 

The Gaff Sail should exhibit faster speeds then the Lanteen at 90 Degree's or perpendicular to the wind, it should maintain this advantage in speed until the boat is turn into the wind within 45 degrees where they should equal and 30 degree's when the Gaff should drop off alot and Lanteen continue to on fine with lanteen being able to come to 15 degree's into the wind with no performance drop....

Additionally Square Sails need to be adjusted so they out perform Gaff between 180 and 135 at 90 the Gaff and Lanteen should clearly pull away and at 45 into the wind the Square sail should come nearly to a halt...

So to summarize driving into the wind...

Square Rig (speed sail) Should come to a near halt at 45 off of the wind

Gaff should nearly come to a halt at 30 off of the wind

Lanteen should see a slow down of 75% at 15 into the wind but still be significantly faster straight into the wind...

 

Square Rig should best Fastest at 145 degree's 

Gaff should be best at 90 Degree's 

Lanteen Should be best at 45 Degree's

 

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I do notice sometimes that in real life the position of handling sail would not just provide any speed. Sometimes it even should work as a break parachute.

Like here. Question is - why this handling sail filled with a wind FROM OPPOSITE SIDE of where wind actually blowing?

LQalejh.jpg

Or here. In this case this handling sail should not provide me any speed, but break be down instead:

PlkUckh.jpg

There must to be done something with it. Because now it's just...

giphy.gif

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One of the main issues oif course is that both the handling and weight sails are in the wrong direction to what they would be on a real ship. But we do need correct sails. We could also do with a working bowsprit complete with its sails

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Weight sails are excellent, I'm getting abit tired of reading all these noob threads about sails.  Handling sails are excellent as well.  Esp on an overloaded gally trying to get home against the wind.  Adding the other types would be useful in their own case, and the handling sail should be correctly orientated in regards to the speed sails.. which just don't really work unless the wind is somewhere behind you.  The speed sails are really the ones that should be removed.

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2 hours ago, Martyn said:

Weight sails are excellent, I'm getting abit tired of reading all these noob threads about sails.  Handling sails are excellent as well.  Esp on an overloaded gally trying to get home against the wind.  Adding the other types would be useful in their own case, and the handling sail should be correctly orientated in regards to the speed sails.. which just don't really work unless the wind is somewhere behind you.  The speed sails are really the ones that should be removed.

The fact you say weight sails are fine means you're either A: Trolling B: Joking C Never used a speed sail.

Did two brigs, one 3 weight one 3 speed - 3 weight, empty - 10 knots, 90% full - 3 knots. 3 speed, 75% full, 15 knots, same wind. Not worth 3k pounds more.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, gadefence said:

The fact you say weight sails are fine means you're either A: Trolling B: Joking C Never used a speed sail.

Did two brigs, one 3 weight one 3 speed - 3 weight, empty - 10 knots, 90% full - 3 knots. 3 speed, 75% full, 15 knots, same wind. Not worth 3k pounds more.

I have 3 galleons, 1 is pure weight sail.  Go away and back under your rock.  speed isn't important.  Getting from A to B is.

Weight sails change the way the ship deals with weight when underway, They aren't supposed to increase weight as much as assist in increasing speed by balancing the weight, in the same way as opening or closing your gunports.  A balance of sails weight speed and handling makes a gally capable of sailing against the wind, leaving more rapidly, turning more rapidly to escape as well as benefiting from speed sails.

These threads however are only about getting there faster, sailing completely against the wind ie ignoring the rules of the game.  Travel takes time and adding to how interesting that travel is, is more important than getting from A to B instantly.

The only truth in your post is that speed sails, with the wind, make you go faster.. going faster however, isn't the aim of sailing.  Your turning circle for example is absolutely massive if you go pure speed.

Edited by Martyn
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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Martyn said:

Weight sails change the way the ship deals with weight when underway, They aren't supposed to increase weight as much as assist in increasing speed by balancing the weight, in the same way as opening or closing your gunports.  A balance of sails weight speed and handling makes a gally capable of sailing against the wind, leaving more rapidly, turning more rapidly to escape as well as benefiting from speed sails.

100 knot trip.

Ship A: 25 knots one way (<50%) 15 knots return (75%). Trip A takes 4 minutes, trip B take about 6 1/2 minutes.

Ship B: 10 knots one way (0%), return trip 3 knots (90%). Trip A takes 10 minutes, trip B takes 33 minutes.

Total time A: 10 /12 minutes. Total displacement A: 22.5 tons.
Total time B: 43 minutes. Total displacement B: 32.4.
You could do 4 trips, total displacement 88 tons, vs 1 trip with weight sails.

Weight sails do not offset weight by enough to make up for the insane boost speed gives you. If weight sails were 10k each (so 30k speed gal vs 90k weight gal). And that assumes 2 no level galleons - if the galleons both have max weight, you're looking at 60 vs 66 tons of carrying, and then numbers closed to 45 vs 59.4, which makes weight sails even more useless.

Edited by gadefence

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Posted (edited)

You're not taking encounters, like weather, sotd into account, changes in wind speed, direction etc.  The guys around here with 6 speed sails are all speeding straight into sotd and getting hammered, where as I am slower.. no doubt, but I can move around them and dodge them.  Similarly in cyclones I can dodge between them they get hit because they can't turn in time.

More agility is more important to me, plus the ability to actually go where I want instead of making huge tacking runs to try to get around the wind, although I'll admit in long trips, someone tacking north west then cutting east, often arrives at around the same time I do sailing north east almost into the wind.

In a straight line, speed sails with the wind behind you, so you get max speed, then yeh.. you go faster, but if you find yourself hammering straight into 2-3 sotd gallys and slam into them.. well that's because you chose speed over agility.  And judging from the number of gallys I've salvaged lately, they're all speed sails.  Stuck on sandbars, smashed by whales or sotd.  All because they couldn't turn or stop in time.  If you get a clear break you can run between them and escape for sure.  But the risk of losing everything, or at least a gally.. with it's 300k base resource input isn't worth it imo.

I do agree that weight sails need to be tinkered with, but they don't need to be removed from gameplay.  Handling sails also need some changes as do speed sails esp cosmetically, in the way they're turned, as no ship ever made in the time period these ships are supposed to be, could ever turn it's square sails so they were running bow to stern.  (more modern ships can) Yet you can do that in atlas.. don't hear any complaints then do you.

Edited by Martyn

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20 minutes ago, Martyn said:

You're not taking encounters, like weather, sotd into account, changes in wind speed, direction etc.  The guys around here with 6 speed sails are all speeding straight into sotd and getting hammered, where as I am slower.. no doubt, but I can move around them and dodge them.  Similarly in cyclones I can dodge between them they get hit because they can't turn in time.

More agility is more important to me, plus the ability to actually go where I want instead of making huge tacking runs to try to get around the wind, although I'll admit in long trips, someone tacking north west then cutting east, often arrives at around the same time I do sailing north east almost into the wind.

In a straight line, speed sails with the wind behind you, so you get max speed, then yeh.. you go faster, but if you find yourself hammering straight into 2-3 sotd gallys and slam into them.. well that's because you chose speed over agility.  And judging from the number of gallys I've salvaged lately, they're all speed sails.  Stuck on sandbars, smashed by whales or sotd.  All because they couldn't turn or stop in time.  If you get a clear break you can run between them and escape for sure.  But the risk of losing everything, or at least a gally.. with it's 300k base resource input isn't worth it imo.

I do agree that weight sails need to be tinkered with, but they don't need to be removed from gameplay.  Handling sails also need some changes as do speed sails esp cosmetically, in the way they're turned, as no ship ever made in the time period these ships are supposed to be, could ever turn it's square sails so they were running bow to stern.  (more modern ships can) Yet you can do that in atlas.. don't hear any complaints then do you.

1: Even galleon is able to out turn a whale.

2: If you turn you sails into the wind or hoist them up, you slow down, turn at same rate as weight.

3: If you spam X you barely ever run into sand bars - assuming you go full speed at an island. Also with sextant buff you see where the sand bars are on the minimap.

4: Assuming on a galleon, you can go on the crowsnest on the front and see SotD far enough away to full speed at them with an NPC on autopilot + the radial menu and still avoid them.

5: I said weight sails need to be buffed, not removed.

Also, weight sails do not give you agility over speed sails - they're just slower so you have more time to turn - which, point above, is the same for speed sails not at full speed.

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Posted (edited)

Most people don't use points 1-5 they go for 6 speed sails, max out weight and sink alot.  Or seems that way to me.  I'm not overly bothered atm, as it seems everyone is quitting around me, so I'm slowly getting my island back.

Edited by Martyn

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when they added 30% boost to all sails speed sails became the meta. what they should have done is 10% for speed 20% for weight and 30% for handling.

 

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For me my standard fit for a brig is 2 speed 1 weight. It works well for me and gives that little bit of a boost for how much you can carry. Sure its faster with 3 speed but Im happy.

I would like a sail for my bowsprit though and for the weight sail to face the correct way with the wind. 

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Posted (edited)

@martyn maybe that works in pve, but speed is boss in pvp, you might be able to out maneuver sods, but if you got 3 war schooners chasing you, you better be fast or your toast, a mythical shipyard gal with 6 journeyman speed sails at 60-70% weight will outrun almost anything, and if you set your resource chest to be able to dump overboard excess weight you will outrun anything. war ships cant dump their cannons lol but cargo who cares compared to mats for a gal

as for handling sails, they do look bad, they often as stated are wind filled in the wrong direction

Edited by Remo

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On 5/5/2019 at 1:10 AM, gadefence said:

The fact you say weight sails are fine means you're either A: Trolling B: Joking C Never used a speed sail.

Did two brigs, one 3 weight one 3 speed - 3 weight, empty - 10 knots, 90% full - 3 knots. 3 speed, 75% full, 15 knots, same wind. Not worth 3k pounds more.

Yes, speed sails are OP, and thus why almost everyone uses 3 speed sails on their Brigs.

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I don't think speed sails are a meta, just a default.  Ever seen kids playing at a play ground?  Kids will always run between things, seems kids only have two speeds..   Static, and running.  Kids don't play in a playground with 'meta' in mind...   Kids just have energy and things to do.........         In atlas it's the same, grid maps are huge, people have places to be.  Running 5 speed sails on our galley + handling for some occasional pick me up works well.  I'd never go less than 5 speed sails, i have places to be irl and in game!  Plus our galley is a cargo ship, so outrunning things is the crack.  Heck I have rammed SoTD at 16 kts to get past, they only had 1 volley that hit, rest missed, gone before they can turn.

Wish battering rams were a thing  🙂

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I’m of the opinion that every time the devs want to add a new tame, they should be adding a new ship or sail type.

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