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globytheoldpirate

From an island owner view

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11 hours ago, globytheoldpirate said:

This system is pretty like a company.

The owner company is the Captain.
You have to trust the Captain to join.
The Captain can be an asshole or the best guy in a world.

but when you get on s ship with a captain, you do not sign over all your property and other ships to them,   Your luggage is still your luggage.  They actually pay you when you leave the ships crew to get started on you own.

The Communal ownership structure is one of my biggest dislikes of Atlas (and Ark)

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One idea i have is that they make it beneficial for the land owner to let people build on his land by lowering pay out for the 24 hr time frame by the amount  of different company's  he has living on his island this would cause people to think and lower there taxes on the island.

Edited by IcemanXIDKP

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21 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

Right now, it's an island.  Previously it was a little more space than needed to put the stuff used to do crafting, taming, shipbuilding, etc.    Previously, you owned that space and people couldn't destroy your stuff  in pve.    Now you get whatever some other player decides you can have, and they can destroy your stuff.

You a right of course, see my suggestions up above.

I am happy that they took my recommendation/came to the same conclusion about the tax problem. Was hoping to get it not only on PVE but on Colonies as well.
Colonies is more of the PVE just with (hopefully) 'online-PVP' for everyone that has a real life.

Same with my ideas about Colonies PVP on an island and that land owners should not be able to just delete other structures.
Hell, with the raid timers now, it is not like that the Devs haven't already admitted that destroying player stuff on island on sight from small companies that cannot be online all the time, is not their intended idea for the game mode and their player base.
They want to tweak it, I understand. But 9 hour raid window is a matter of degree. They will lower it, because the "griefing window" is still too big. Maybe 5 hours? 3hr? The limit will be ZERO...
So I say get it rid of it and redefine how islands are protected and how they loose that protection. Incenitives owner/tenant to be mutually beneficial with least amount of griefing.
By the way under my suggestion their is no raid times, but full PVP, while all structures are save - raiders have to de-claim the island first (making it lawless again) to be able to ransack the island, they have to (finally) work for it. And every person living on the island is incentivised to help 'Hold the Fort' around the claim flag.
So even with only small companies/single players living on the island not being online all the time, some will be online at any time and help to protect the island from falling.
Think about it as a Mega (where there is also someone online at any time for defense) but for the "Mega" that are the island dwellers...

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12 hours ago, Jerryn said:

 

  Though, a deed flag, especially when place on an already owned island, can let the owner know someone wants to build, and person that wants to build can wait until their deed flag was passed the expiration time.

And, when a claimer shows up, they can survey the island and make a choice if they want it, knowing who is already there.

now thats a good idea 

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So far people have just said "benifit of the land owner". What about none land owners? I said this before they need something that benifits boths sides, not just those who own the land. Right now, there is no reason for others to set up a base on someones land as all the benfits are given to the land owner. There should be a reason land owenres want people on their island and want them to stay and vice versa.

Also, i'll keep saying it as I belive this is what a priate game should be. allow players to live on their ships, claim it as your home and it has increased stat to allow comfortable living.

i remeber playing on a private server and just traveling from place to place, crafting and doing normal stuff while sailing, it felt amazing not having to travel back cause my ship was overweight and i'm sure it would do wounders for RP.

 

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13 hours ago, Jerryn said:

So, maybe, it is based on 12 hours, less time already spent on the isle, from first structure placement(and still in place), protecting all of structures within a certain build radius/perimeter of that first structure.   Reason I say from the first structure, is that if someone goes pillar/foundation spam happy, trying to take the who thing, they could lose those(even after the 12 hours is up).

However, I think once someone has been on the island for a while, a claim owner, or change in ownership, shouldn't open the destruction window; except for the excessive building, which I why I was thinking of the limit use deed flag, but first structure could also act as such.   Though, a deed flag, especially when place on an already owned island, can let the owner know someone wants to build, and person that wants to build can wait until their deed flag was passed the expiration time.

And, when a claimer shows up, they can survey the island and make a choice if they want it, knowing who is already there.

If I am an island owner, here's how I look at the suggestions -  many of the small islands only have 1 or 2 good spots to build.  People grab those first, even if they don't want to claim the island.  That's a mistake, because whoever is paying the upkeep is going to feel they should have at least 1 of those spots.  I know I would.     Nobody is going to come along later and claim that island if they can't destroy some of that stuff.  And if you don't want a landlord, you just build over the resources, and then nobody would ever want to claim that island.

 

I don't know,, it looks like we are just coming up with more and more complicated systems to do something that could be a lot simpler - everyone gets to claim land with limits based on company size.

With the old claim system with claims caps in place,  I would go looking for land like this -

1.  Do I like this biome?

2.  Is there land available here?

3.  If there anything awful right next to me?  (Giant stone boxes, companies with racist or otherwise nasty names, etc)

4. How are the resources?

And then I'd claim the land.

 

With this new system, I'd still do all that, and then I'd have to worry about the landlord if there was one.  Will he destroy my stuff?  Will he let other people build stuff 2 tiles away from mine?  Will HE build stuff 2 tiles away from mine?  Is he going to let bunches of objectionable companies build on the island?  (Sorry, but I am just not up for spending my free time hanging out with "Sexy Grandpa",  or "N**erbomb"... names I have really seen in the game)  If the land is not claimed, then I have to check to see if anybody else has already done any of those things, because I can't destroy their stuff if the timer's already gone off.  And if I do destroy their stuff, then I get to be the mean landlord for destroying their stuff.

Then assuming I jump all those hurdles, and claim land, there are the rules - you can't destroy anyone's stuff if the first thing they built was more than 12 hours ago, unless they are doing "excessive building", then you can destroy their stuff (just the excessive stuff?), and they can have a deed flag, and you can't destroy anything inside the deed.    Or I do all those things and become a settler.  I can build , but I have to wait 12 hours to see if I can stay, and then I can stay, but I can't expand "excessively", and I have to worry about what the landlord thinks and what he's going to do and who he's going to let build around me.

It gets way too complicated.  When do I just get to have a piece of land that I can control, and go out sailing and have some adventures?   Why do I have to be a landlord at the mercy of some tenant, or a tenant at the mercy of some landlord when I just want to be a pirate?

 

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2 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

If I am an island owner, here's how I look at the suggestions -  many of the small islands only have 1 or 2 good spots to build.  People grab those first, even if they don't want to claim the island.  That's a mistake, because whoever is paying the upkeep is going to feel they should have at least 1 of those spots.  I know I would.     Nobody is going to come along later and claim that island if they can't destroy some of that stuff.  And if you don't want a landlord, you just build over the resources, and then nobody would ever want to claim that island.

 

I don't know,, it looks like we are just coming up with more and more complicated systems to do something that could be a lot simpler - everyone gets to claim land with limits based on company size.

With the old claim system with claims caps in place,  I would go looking for land like this -

1.  Do I like this biome?

2.  Is there land available here?

3.  If there anything awful right next to me?  (Giant stone boxes, companies with racist or otherwise nasty names, etc)

4. How are the resources?

And then I'd claim the land.

 

With this new system, I'd still do all that, and then I'd have to worry about the landlord if there was one.  Will he destroy my stuff?  Will he let other people build stuff 2 tiles away from mine?  Will HE build stuff 2 tiles away from mine?  Is he going to let bunches of objectionable companies build on the island?  (Sorry, but I am just not up for spending my free time hanging out with "Sexy Grandpa",  or "N**erbomb"... names I have really seen in the game)  If the land is not claimed, then I have to check to see if anybody else has already done any of those things, because I can't destroy their stuff if the timer's already gone off.  And if I do destroy their stuff, then I get to be the mean landlord for destroying their stuff.

Then assuming I jump all those hurdles, and claim land, there are the rules - you can't destroy anyone's stuff if the first thing they built was more than 12 hours ago, unless they are doing "excessive building", then you can destroy their stuff (just the excessive stuff?), and they can have a deed flag, and you can't destroy anything inside the deed.    Or I do all those things and become a settler.  I can build , but I have to wait 12 hours to see if I can stay, and then I can stay, but I can't expand "excessively", and I have to worry about what the landlord thinks and what he's going to do and who he's going to let build around me.

It gets way too complicated.  When do I just get to have a piece of land that I can control, and go out sailing and have some adventures?   Why do I have to be a landlord at the mercy of some tenant, or a tenant at the mercy of some landlord when I just want to be a pirate?

 

exactly , DEVS ALL WE ALL WANTED WAS THE OLD CLAIM SYSTEM WITH LIMITS TO CLAIM FLAGS , why did the devs even come up with this claim system , what did they smoke / drink that particular day , why did they ignore everyone that posted about the claim system the players  were overwhelmingly for caps on amount of flags each company could place , what was simpler than that i dont know , 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Jerryn said:

Maybe someone should suggest a grandfather clause.  That is, any structure(s) on an island that is claimed  by someone else are automatically protected; no demolish allowed, only decay.

And/or, a second type of claim, which is sort of the deed mentioned above.   Limited to one, and only for single player/small companies; not allowed/auto removed for big companies and island owners, and anyone that joins a large company or one that owns an island.   Works, sort of like the old claim system, but once setup and allowed to remain, you can build within those limits, no matter what, with full protection.  I would also make it square, not round.  And, maybe a second one that is for the water only; or else, the square one, if place close to the water (within 1/2 distance) automatically extends to provide a secondary water claim.

Then to extend on the idea above, if someone wants to demolish your stuff, they go to the flag, or the flag boarder, and activate the delayed demolish. 

no .

 

this having island owners controlling who and what and when other players can build has to go it has no place at all in pve , it needs to go 

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Well when all island gonna  be taken  peaple will have no choice to go around and find an island to build where the tax are low ... nothing wrong to day .... my island  is over 700 gold per day ....  so I'm happy of people want come play on my island and to be honest it's almost better to be that way and dont pay no tax unless you a big group and make it worth it  .... but a small group I dint think you guys shouldn't  worrying  about not owning an island 

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1 hour ago, Edguy said:

Well when all island gonna  be taken  peaple will have no choice to go around and find an island to build where the tax are low ... nothing wrong to day .... my island  is over 700 gold per day ....  so I'm happy of people want come play on my island and to be honest it's almost better to be that way and dont pay no tax unless you a big group and make it worth it  .... but a small group I dint think you guys shouldn't  worrying  about not owning an island 

would like to point out that taxes no longer matter in pve. you get 100% of what you harvest, the taxes are ADDITIONAL to what you harved, if you harved 10 wood, you get 10 wood the land owner gets 2, if his taxes are set to 20%

now one of the biggest reasons other than taxes for letting people build on your island, for ever "settler" group thats on your island, you get +2 hours to your tax time. which is amazing. cuz paying every 12 hours sucks.

On 4/14/2019 at 12:04 PM, UDO said:

no .

 

this having island owners controlling who and what and when other players can build has to go it has no place at all in pve , it needs to go 

i dissagree with you. island owners can protect valuable resources, if this wasn't allowed it coudl turn around like ark, where people buidl upon metal, salt, etc etc and the island then loses those resources. 

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It's nice that you recognise the pros of having others live on your land. Can you explain the pros to those settling on your land, though?

 

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2 hours ago, Arih said:

It's nice that you recognise the pros of having others live on your land. Can you explain the pros to those settling on your land, though?

 

Place to build without paying upkeep cost for your own island and without paying real tax? Keeping Settlement clear of enemy structures? Potential cooperation while defending the Settlement?

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1 hour ago, Willard said:

Place to build without paying upkeep cost for your own island and without paying real tax? Keeping Settlement clear of enemy structures? Potential cooperation while defending the Settlement?

 

Place to build without paying upkeep cost... so like Lawless? Keeping settlement clear of enemy structures... PVE so no enemies, and you will be demolishing structures? So you might demolish mine? Co-op while defending... in PVE?

 

The problem with this claim system in PVE is there is ZERO benefit to anyone other than the claim owner. They have designed the game for PVP and PVE players can lump it. People want to own their own land. It really grates to be asked to gather resources for someone else with zero return benefit for yourself. Isn't it even true that the decay time is less in claimed territory than in lawless? They should have stuck with the original claim system for PVE but with limited flags of 3 per person, in or out of a company.

 

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5 hours ago, mizunami said:

would like to point out that taxes no longer matter in pve. you get 100% of what you harvest, the taxes are ADDITIONAL to what you harved, if you harved 10 wood, you get 10 wood the land owner gets 2, if his taxes are set to 20%

now one of the biggest reasons other than taxes for letting people build on your island, for ever "settler" group thats on your island, you get +2 hours to your tax time. which is amazing. cuz paying every 12 hours sucks.

i dissagree with you. island owners can protect valuable resources, if this wasn't allowed it coudl turn around like ark, where people buidl upon metal, salt, etc etc and the island then loses those resources. 

Nice benefits for the island owner, but what are the benefits for the settler? This is the problem in PVE. It's a one sided arrangement - all the benefits are for the island owner. It might work in PVP, I don't know, but maybe security in return for the tax might work.... mutual benefit. In PVE, however, all the benefits are for the island owner. Even if the 20% tax doesn't come out of my share, it's going to annoy me working away for the benefit of someone else without getting anything in return. 

They need to revert to the old claim system, and give every individual player 3 claim flags, in or out of a company. 

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1 minute ago, Arih said:

Nice benefits for the island owner, but what are the benefits for the settler? This is the problem in PVE. It's a one sided arrangement - all the benefits are for the island owner. It might work in PVP, I don't know, but maybe security in return for the tax might work.... mutual benefit. In PVE, however, all the benefits are for the island owner. Even if the 20% tax doesn't come out of my share, it's going to annoy me working away for the benefit of someone else without getting anything in return. 

They need to revert to the old claim system, and give every individual player 3 claim flags, in or out of a company. 

nothing in teturn?, with a good land lord they make sure valuable resources are protected, which means you get access to them as well, not having to deal with pillar/foundation spam of lawless, the landlords keep the lands clean of such filth. 

im sick of reading about they need to revert claim systems. no, they do not, and if they did, no they shouldn't limit it that way. Thats not what was envisioned by the developers. Read the description of the game when you look it up on the store. its meant to have a landlord tenant system..

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1 minute ago, mizunami said:

nothing in teturn?, with a good land lord they make sure valuable resources are protected, which means you get access to them as well, not having to deal with pillar/foundation spam of lawless, the landlords keep the lands clean of such filth. 

im sick of reading about they need to revert claim systems. no, they do not, and if they did, no they shouldn't limit it that way. Thats not what was envisioned by the developers. Read the description of the game when you look it up on the store. its meant to have a landlord tenant system..

I'm in lawless, and all the resources are available to me... so I don't see the benefit of a "good" landlord, who will arbitrarily demolish stuff they don't like.

 

You're sick of hearing that they should revert the claim system BECAUSE YOU HAVE A CLAIM! You're in the minority. What was envisioned by the developers was for PVP where it can work. People can contest claims, and a landlord/tenant system can work for both parties, where one gets the rent and the other gets the security. In PVE it just doesn't work! Your perceived benefits aren't really worth anything. And even if it doesn't come out of my share, still working for you for no return really grinds my gears.

 

As other people have said, I would like to claim a bit of land just for the sake of saying "this is mine". With the current system, that's very unlikely to happen.  

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As an island owner your concern is only with griefers and abandoned boats. During the PTR I got an island that cost 24 Points / 128 Gold to unkeep and  look for some gold and after two hours I already had almost 4K Gold this excuse of "Look for a good LandLord because the island costs a lot gold to keep "is bullshit and most likely a solo player or a group of two or three people can maintain an island.

Whoever bought the game wants to have complete experience with it and NOBODY ABSOLUTELY NOBODY wants to be commanded as a puppet by a person who does not know.

I tried to get an island on the server [EU] PVE so the v100 came out the same second I was there but I was not lucky everything in the game was conspiring against me that day like on the wing, storm and alot of SOD.

Then I tried to get an island in the NA PVE I was the first to enter the grid to buy the island and it was the same island that I bought in the PTR that cost in the 24 Golds in the PTR I got there with 65 Golds and the DEVS defined the price of the island as 128 without warning anyone that they had increased the values for buying the islands there two hours later while I was looking for gold in the floatsam a group of 4 people bought the island.

And as soon as I returned to the island to see who had bought it I was kicked out from there as if I were some leper.

In other words, I have not played since then and AS Lawless is no longer an option for me I want to go to sleep and make sure my house was not surrounded by walls or large gates why some grifers / troll chose me as a target.

I before that damn wipe I had 6 flags on a small island I made friends with my neighbor lived in peace despite alpha cobras and some boats abandoned in my territory and now I have NOTHING.

Today who owns an island enjoy well play enough because the same way you have today and be happy playing this game tomorrow can not have anything even after spending +1500 hours in that game.

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6 hours ago, Arih said:

Nice benefits for the island owner, but what are the benefits for the settler? This is the problem in PVE. It's a one sided arrangement - all the benefits are for the island owner. It might work in PVP, I don't know, but maybe security in return for the tax might work.... mutual benefit. In PVE, however, all the benefits are for the island owner. Even if the 20% tax doesn't come out of my share, it's going to annoy me working away for the benefit of someone else without getting anything in return. 

They need to revert to the old claim system, and give every individual player 3 claim flags, in or out of a company. 

that would be too much imo 2-3 per player,with a  max of 10 per company if they need more than that then maybe freeport offers additional flags for 10,000 gold per, but keep some upkeep cost for the first 10 low, after that it doubles per additional flag this way at least if u want more than your fair share u will have to pay for it ..

Edited by UDO

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iv learn good stuff  reading all comments ! but in my opinion this a good sistem  i did not like the old claim system .... now that i know  1 settlement = 2 extra hours for unkeep  ill talk to my  otrher island friend ... i got 57 pts island and the unkeep  its 716 gold per 24 hours... i do  wish that or want come  install a base  on my island i do agree that he shoudl have some kind of small tax to keep his settlement  and  that way all his structure are protected ... that would encourage small groups of players to get some parts of the island and it would benifit the owner with the small tax to oay the unkeep .... (  yes my english is not perfect  dont have to attack me that way plz 🙂  ) 

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3 hours ago, Edguy said:

iv learn good stuff  reading all comments ! but in my opinion this a good sistem  i did not like the old claim system .... now that i know  1 settlement = 2 extra hours for unkeep  ill talk to my  otrher island friend ... i got 57 pts island and the unkeep  its 716 gold per 24 hours... i do  wish that or want come  install a base  on my island i do agree that he shoudl have some kind of small tax to keep his settlement  and  that way all his structure are protected ... that would encourage small groups of players to get some parts of the island and it would benifit the owner with the small tax to oay the unkeep .... (  yes my english is not perfect  dont have to attack me that way plz 🙂  ) 

i think slowly island owners are realising unless they want to spend all thier time gold hunting they need to allow others to build to keep the cost down , 

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I've noticed a few issues with the claims.

1. There are a TON of small companies.. None of which want to do mergers but all want to be in alliances.

2. Tiny/Small islands seem to be perfect for those small companies! But.. they are also probably the fat-est loot in the game.  The amount of raw resources at your disposal is nuts.  So every Major Company who knows this should/have gobbled these up..  A lot of the bigger islands are just huge expensive useless islands.

3. Gold upkeep of islands seems pretty high for small/medium companies to keep up with.  a lot goes into just keeping your island paid for.  I've noticed a lot of small/medium size companies don't have any AI Defenses..  I don't think they can afford it..

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