Update: Gold cost for Island

[Percieval 1,067]

But why, I don’t get it. What’s so bad with a hard cap on points, why would they want to change it so that you can have more islands overtime. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Percieval

[Konvar 24]

Your cry is heard!

23p now 120+ 12h! 

 

My flag collapsed and stole100 gold

 

Need to build a base faster or collect gold?

 

Newbies will cry and go!

[Sinappia 49]

It's not double the cost per se! they simply changed the upkeep to be paid every 24 hours and not every 12 hours. Look at your timers!

Could not confirm yet if that means the initial costs will be like at the start (as example 99) or the same like the 24 hours upkeep (198)

Edited April 11, 2019 by Sinappia

[wandelaar 44]

 

On 4/10/2019 at 8:41 AM, Martyn said:

Whales and treasure maps aren't exactly easy if you're playing on 1x rates and starting new.   Unless you've found some exploit to doing it.

In endgame it might be easy, but people are trying to hold down claims now at lv 30-40 ish.

I think the way to hurt megas with tax and flag rates would be to tax tames and foundations/pillers/ceilings etc.  Maybe even 1g per tile or something along these lines, then people who create huge bases and tons of tames.. pay a lot more than those who have a little hut and a couple of tames.

However the problem will always be with balance, too much tax and people will just quit.. or goto unoffs or so. So it might not be a solution worth having.  Maybe they should just do away with tax banks and gold charges for flags with no upkeep at all.

I agree on the gold topic.
Early game it is not too easy to get sufficient gold to at least get NPCs for your first ship. (In the PVE PTR I failed to get there thrice. Built schooner, collected a few treasure maps. equipped to do the battle without a tame ... and was too tired to do the fight or sail back to a freeport ... next day, ship decayed )
It is certainly true that once you have a decent tier 2 animal or any tier 3 animal treasure maps are an easy and boring routine.

And I agree even more on the tax topic. Currently the type of tax feels like value add tax on resources. Property taxes on your own structures would be much more adequate as a balancing mechanic. The combination might make for a healthier dynamic that the current lording slave system.
 

[Konvar 24]

1 hour ago, Sinappia said:

Could not confirm yet if that means the initial costs will be like at the start (as example 99) or the same like the 24 hours upkeep (198)

The next time he demanded 122.

 

I did not notice that 12h changed to 24h. thank!

Who knows where my 100 gold from the flag disappeared?

 

Is gold accurately stored in the flag, or in a bank, or in a pirate's chest at the base?

 

[Wichtelman 8]

ok lets assume the upk cost would start at lets say 1000 gold for 24h for small islands and scale up the larger it gets...

what do you guys think would happen if the best islands cost like 10k gold?

 

[gnihar 111]

16 hours ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

The only way to curb the Megas in this regard is to make the costs exponentially higher for each point.

So with what he posted here, the cost only goes up a little bit per point.  Note that 35P is 99g, and 69P is 230g.  So only little bit more per point.  Keep in mind that a Mega will be split into several companies, so you have to make the exponential costs much higher.  I would like to see that 69P be more like 300g, and 140P be drastically higher...like 900 gold.  In this way, you would encourage them to have less desire to take over many islands.  Plus, since they are taking over the larger islands, it keeps them busy getting gold for the upkeep.

EDIT: I should note that the points should not be per island...they should add up to make the cost increase exponentially, with more islands held.  So, the cost for one company to hold two 100 point islands, would not be the same as the combined cost for two companies holding one 100 point island.  It would be much higher.

They should be more expensive for tribes with more members.

[gnihar 111]

On 4/10/2019 at 12:43 PM, znasser said:

You can't balance this thinking on the smaller entities .They have to give them options to keep playing the game, but if they are just giving land to everybody in the same conditions, they should have saved the trouble of doing one big world and split the server in a lot of smaller ones. 

The way the game is you shouldn't even need a landbase in the first place, because you have acces to ships, that are basically a mobile claim.

I disagree. More expensive islands for everyone will only place zerg companies in advantage again. They should cost kore per more members of a tribe for upkeep, but initially they should be as they are.

[Chucksteak 279]

3 hours ago, Wichtelman said:

ok lets assume the upk cost would start at lets say 1000 gold for 24h for small islands and scale up the larger it gets...

what do you guys think would happen if the best islands cost like 10k gold?

 

I think we would be approaching the appropriate amount of gold upkeep cost per day on an island. Lawless islands should be encouraged via a high upkeep cost to owning an island. The cost of owning the island should reflect the bonuses of collecting taxes and the ability to set a raid window. At 10k gold a day, it might still not be enough to justify someone from holding say the large island on A4. Gold is super easy to collect, one of my main suggestions is to add more gold sinks. Much more gold sinks. Gold was worthless in its previous form and it should be the most valuable resource to collect. 

[gnihar 111]

20 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

I think we would be approaching the appropriate amount of gold upkeep cost per day on an island. Lawless islands should be encouraged via a high upkeep cost to owning an island. The cost of owning the island should reflect the bonuses of collecting taxes and the ability to set a raid window. At 10k gold a day, it might still not be enough to justify someone from holding say the large island on A4. Gold is super easy to collect, one of my main suggestions is to add more gold sinks. Much more gold sinks. Gold was worthless in its previous form and it should be the most valuable resource to collect. 

Then give me another cheaper fuel for puckles. As solo, gathering gold felt just right in old Atlas. Upping the gold availability would negatively impact my defense and add another chore to a long list of ones already here.

[Chucksteak 279]

25 minutes ago, gnihar said:

Then give me another cheaper fuel for puckles. As solo, gathering gold felt just right in old Atlas. Upping the gold availability would negatively impact my defense and add another chore to a long list of ones already here.

Ill assume you meant "Upping the gold consumption". To be fair, I was talking about the cost of owning an Island. To that respect I feel it should be extraordinarily difficult for a solo player to own one. Everything should encourage and reward interaction of players, as this is an MMORPG.

Honestly this whole "NPC Crew" thing is another Ark leftover, I don't think they belong in Atlas. I fundamentally disagree with the entire NPC crew concept in an MMORPG that should encourage and incentivise player interaction, not discourage it in favor of AI. Personally I would remove the "Crew" from the game and increase the defense of walls to favor the defender. Arguably, a gold cost should be added to the wall construction or upkeep. 

 

[gnihar 111]

3 minutes ago, Chucksteak said:

Ill assume you meant "Upping the gold consumption". To be fair, I was talking about the cost of owning an Island. To that respect I feel it should be extraordinarily difficult for a solo player to own one. Everything should encourage and reward interaction of players, as this is an MMORPG.

Honestly this whole "NPC Crew" thing is another Ark leftover, I don't think they belong in Atlas. I fundamentally disagree with the entire NPC crew concept in an MMORPG that should encourage and incentivise player interaction, not discourage it in favor of AI. Personally I would remove the "Crew" from the game and increase the defense of walls to favor the defender. Arguably, a gold cost should be added to the wall construction or upkeep. 

 

I do not even look at Atlas as a mmorpg. I detest the usual mmorpg concepts that are prevalent in this genre today.

I consider atlas for what it is - a multiplayer survival sandbox game, and spiritual successor of Ark in a fantasy setting that resembles Earth pre-colonialism period.

That said, I don't see how the npc crews are connected to Ark.

 

 

[DocHolliday 366]

This is a MMO and I like them. So hah!

NPC crews are a must in this game and they allow small companies the ability to punch above their weight especially on the high seas if they know how to build and captain a boat. 

Imagine no NPC's and sailing.  Galleon's would rarely be seen except for heavy transport.  War brigs are doable, but still require a lot of active players.  Schooners would be common, but still a pain needing at minimum 6-8 crew members to be war capable.  Small companies would have trouble putting 1-2 capable ships out there. 

Also dealing with a lot of people on larger ships for long periods of time..........ugh........I don't know about you guys but the people I play with get restless and when they get restless bad (re:funny) things start to happen.  Blackjacks, paint brushes and scissors are not allowed on my boat!  When dealing with large numbers of players it can be like herding cats.  Good luck! 

[EyEamInfidel 31]

Id like to know why devs think a pirate game needs individuals to own a entire island that many people could split up to call home..

Seems the devs favor large companys.

Not the casual single player..

I feel bad for new purchasers of the game..

 

[Chucksteak 279]

1 hour ago, gnihar said:

I do not even look at Atlas as a mmorpg. I detest the usual mmorpg concepts that are prevalent in this genre today.

I consider atlas for what it is - a multiplayer survival sandbox game, and spiritual successor of Ark in a fantasy setting that resembles Earth pre-colonialism period.

That said, I don't see how the npc crews are connected to Ark.

 

 

Yeah, I know you don't want this to be an MMORPG. I understand your desire for this, not that I share it. However you know how the old saying goes, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck......its a duck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game

You will at some point have to acknowledge that this is by definition a MMORPG. I have to think you don't want this to be a "theme park" MMORPG. Assuming you enjoy the game thus far, you have been enjoying a sandbox MMORPG. Or else your issue is perhaps with the MMO part of it. I can see someone just wanting a MPRPG, where you have say less than 50 people in a server with you. Id recommend the private servers if that is the issue. I have considered this myself.

Now, concerning Ark, did they not have a mechanic where "turrets" were setup to auto fire and defend? Its the automation I have issue with. The NPC selling things is the free ports is fine. 

 

1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

This is a MMO and I like them. So hah!

NPC crews are a must in this game and they allow small companies the ability to punch above their weight especially on the high seas if they know how to build and captain a boat. 

Imagine no NPC's and sailing.  Galleon's would rarely be seen except for heavy transport.  War brigs are doable, but still require a lot of active players.  Schooners would be common, but still a pain needing at minimum 6-8 crew members to be war capable.  Small companies would have trouble putting 1-2 capable ships out there. 

Also dealing with a lot of people on larger ships for long periods of time..........ugh........I don't know about you guys but the people I play with get restless and when they get restless bad (re:funny) things start to happen.  Blackjacks, paint brushes and scissors are not allowed on my boat!  When dealing with large numbers of players it can be like herding cats.  Good luck! 

Well HAH! I like them too.

I disagree NPCs are a must have though. Its a crutch that can allow a single player to be better at naval combat than a real crew all having to aim adjust and fire independently. This crutch is then abused to the max when a galleon is made with a cannon wall and filled with NPCs giving a single (well funded) person a nigh unchallenged position. What then IS my incentive to have a real crew on my ship? It all comes back to good game design, the BIGGEST issue with Atlas is piss poor game design that is not jiving with the concept. 

A small company (5-15 members) should theoretically thrive with 1-3 ships. A War brig can function perfectly with 6-15 crew. Sea of thieves nailed it in this department. The better that a crew can work together is a direct correlation to how well they perform in PvP.  Put another way, the best cat herder should be the captain. This is one of the incentives we should have to make us want to interact and improve our skill.

Unfortunately, we have the not very well thought out single player version applied to every individual. Your small company of 15 can field 15 boats, but the 50 man company can field 50 with the exact same mechanics. Every boat fires perfectly with NPCs, the skill element is absent, and teamwork is faux.

[gnihar 111]

1 minute ago, Chucksteak said:

Yeah, I know you don't want this to be an MMORPG. I understand your desire for this, not that I share it. However you know how the old saying goes, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck......its a duck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game

You will at some point have to acknowledge that this is by definition a MMORPG. I have to think you don't want this to be a "theme park" MMORPG. Assuming you enjoy the game thus far, you have been enjoying a sandbox MMORPG. Or else your issue is perhaps with the MMO part of it. I can see someone just wanting a MPRPG, where you have say less than 50 people in a server with you. Id recommend the private servers if that is the issue. I have considered this myself.

Now, concerning Ark, did they not have a mechanic where "turrets" were setup to auto fire and defend? Its the automation I have issue with. The NPC selling things is the free ports is fine. 

 

Semantically you are right. Technically it is a MMOG, same as Ark was, what I was referring to are those disgusting helper features and "balancing" stuff that I dislike (premade factions, non-pvp areas, NPC "quests", inability to actually lose something etc. which Atlas doesn't have luckily.

Automation is necessary for offline protection and execution of those pesky and boring tasks, and in Ark it was far superior than here. Generally, I don't mind if you wanna stand behind a cannon or sat on a sail for the whole time, no one is stopping you and your friends to play with no npc,  but I will take npc crew to do it any time.

[DocHolliday 366]

@ChucksteakI disagree a ton with that last part.  I agree its a crutch to an extent, but it also allows people the flexibility to do things on their own and allows a good captain to dominate the seas even when heavily outnumbered.  I know a couple really small companies with really good captains.  They cannot field enough people on a brig if NPC's were not a thing.  I'd be sad to see that go and force them to stay on land of join another company. 

In regards to the last part I've seen good captains take common ships up against masterwork/legendary brigs and galleons and sink them solo.  I've seen good captains take on twice as many ships and win. 

I consider myself average at best and know when I am against a good captain.  Even when I am faster its hard to get consistent shots to land on them as they never allow you in range to consistently land shots.  Also they are always pushing you into the wind.  Try to take that away and they break off forcing you to chase and they slowly push you into the wind again.  Get impatient on them and you eat several volleys and have to break off to repair.  Its a chess match out there when people know what they are doing. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by DocHolliday

[Edguy 2]

We got a  big island( 53) and seriously  its suck ... no irons nothing or barely ... next island to us  a 35 points .... fresh water lake .... tons of metal nods on the beach  and ressources  everywhere  ... I don't get it 

[UDO 361]

16 minutes ago, Edguy said:

We got a  big island( 53) and seriously  its suck ... no irons nothing or barely ... next island to us  a 35 points .... fresh water lake .... tons of metal nods on the beach  and ressources  everywhere  ... I don't get it 

bigger= more points not neccesarily better 

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

On 4/21/2019 at 12:02 PM, UDO said:

bigger= more points not neccesarily better 

And that's the problem.  The better an island, the more it should cost.  Bigger is not necessarily better, and in fact, often is not.  This game is seriously imbalanced, and has a long way to go before it will be ready for primetime.

I have seen a lot of people quit already, this season.  It's already a niche game because most people don't have 70 hours a week to put into the game each week.  So they can't properly defend what they have built up.  50 people who play 2 to 3 hours a night will not be able to compete with a company who has many people putting in 8 plus hours a day.  It takes a lot of time just to get anything done.  So when somebody puts all that time and effort in, and then loses everything in just a couple of hours, they quit, and that is what I saw happen.  It shrinks the community, and thus becomes a niche game.

Some I know, left because the Megas came to Colonies.  They are not coming back.  Ever.

[Winter Thorne 696]

On 4/9/2019 at 3:13 PM, Percieval said:

Way too cheap. Put a 0 behind it and we’re heading into the right direction. But thanks for this! 

Phaaaaarrrrrrp

[SeroJ 20]

On 4/23/2019 at 4:34 PM, Captain Jack Shadow said:

And that's the problem.  The better an island, the more it should cost.  Bigger is not necessarily better, and in fact, often is not.  This game is seriously imbalanced, and has a long way to go before it will be ready for primetime.

I have seen a lot of people quit already, this season.  It's already a niche game because most people don't have 70 hours a week to put into the game each week.  So they can't properly defend what they have built up.  50 people who play 2 to 3 hours a night will not be able to compete with a company who has many people putting in 8 plus hours a day.  It takes a lot of time just to get anything done.  So when somebody puts all that time and effort in, and then loses everything in just a couple of hours, they quit, and that is what I saw happen.  It shrinks the community, and thus becomes a niche game.

Some I know, left because the Megas came to Colonies.  They are not coming back.  Ever.

I mean...

in a lot of ways bigger is better. It takes people longer to get to your base, or to sail around the island. More room for defenses.

 

I think the problem is less the "megas" and more that most of the megas are just like, very uneducated, childish, degenerate and probably psychopathic/sociopathic people.

It's that lowest common denominator thing. Like it's very rare that I see any group of people actually banding together for any kind of higher purpose or.. to do anything cool really. Usually you just see a band of scumbags like griefing smaller groups and recording it for the very mediocre amount of views/likes on streaming sites or for kicks. PvP is supposed to be a balancing mechanic... not a griefing one. Like you want an island? You can conquer it.. Someone is blocking spawns? You can blow them up. You have a disagreement? You can fight each other. Someones training stuff on your tames? Shoot em....
 

What's sad though is with all these big companies, with multiple proxies (and god knows how many accounts - sad) and tons of islands captured... not ONCE have i seen a player city in pvp. It's not that megas are inherently bad.. it's just that..the player base in them is.

I'd still love to see a mega have a city i could dock at and buy some grog and barfight someone like a g'damn pirate. Instead it's all just trolls.

That doesn't make a niche game, it makes a dead game.