Clear Explanation of PVE?

[Zadira 45]

I am a little confused how PVE is supposed to work after the update.  I was hoping there would be clarification with the PTR notes  but since there was nothing new posted, I hope someone else might understand and be able to explain so that I can understand better.

So is any of this correct?

1. A Company can claim an island  - A Company is anyone?  There is no size requirement for a Company to be a Company? 

2. How does someone claim the island since we longer have claim flags. Is it the first person who actually sets foot on any part of that island? No matter how large or small the island is, that person claims all of it?  Does any of the ocean around the island count as part of the island?  

3. Anyone is  able to land on that island and build a settlement? (building anything counts as a settlement?)  (What exactly is considered a settlement) 

4. A person can place pillars and foundations anywhere on that island but the island owner is able to demolish anything the person builds within a certain amount of time but maybe longer?  

5. The owner of the island can set down a bank and collect tax from anyone who builds anything on the island.  How does the taxation work?  Do structure get taxed?  Do any ships out in the ocean get taxed? Do people get taxed? 

Maybe as people try out the PTR, more info will be available, but right now, I am very confused as how it all is supposed to work.

 

[[GP] Guybrush Threepwood 626]

18 minutes ago, Zadira said:

1. A Company can claim an island  - A Company is anyone?  There is no size requirement for a Company to be a Company? 

A company can be one person as long as they have created a company.

18 minutes ago, Zadira said:

2. How does someone claim the island since we longer have claim flags. Is it the first person who actually sets foot on any part of that island? No matter how large or small the island is, that person claims all of it?  Does any of the ocean around the island count as part of the island?

You need a tax bank to be able to place a claim flag because the claim flag will take upkeep from the tax bank, and the tax bank is needed to tax the land. So every company technically has claim flags to use, but a claim flag claims the entire island. As for ocean, there are no sea claims, so the claim flag is likely required to be place on land only. However, it is unclear if the claim area works like previously where it is a circle and therefore covers the water around it.

18 minutes ago, Zadira said:

3. Anyone is  able to land on that island and build a settlement? (building anything counts as a settlement?)  (What exactly is considered a settlement) 

A settlement is a claimed island. Whoever claims the island is the settlement owner. Anyone can build on the land whether it is claimed or not.

18 minutes ago, Zadira said:

4. A person can place pillars and foundations anywhere on that island but the island owner is able to demolish anything the person builds within a certain amount of time but maybe longer?

Yes, currently it is 12 hours from the moment the structure is placed, but they said it might be longer for PvE. As for placing structures anywhere, whilst that is true, their is still a build radius between other companies structures. It is unknown how big that radius is.

18 minutes ago, Zadira said:

5. The owner of the island can set down a bank and collect tax from anyone who builds anything on the island.  How does the taxation work?  Do structure get taxed?  Do any ships out in the ocean get taxed? Do people get taxed? 

Maybe as people try out the PTR, more info will be available, but right now, I am very confused as how it all is supposed to work.

The taxation works as it worked before. As stated in 2. a tax bank is required to place a flag to claim the island. The settlement owner (land owner) can set the tax amount (presumably between 0% - 30%) to tax players harvesting on the land. The resources taxed go towards the upkeep of the claim flag.

Structures built on the land will have their own structure upkeep which the individual owner (not land owner) will be responsible for paying. It is believed there is still going to be a structure upkeep "structure" similar to the resource box that you will need to put certain resources in to keep structure upkeep running. If that empties, eventually the structures will decay.

 

All of this is subject to change, and there's a possibility I may have some things wrong which PTR will hopefully confirm. Hope this helps.

[Salty Jack 56]

Yes.... that was well stated....

However I have two questions that I don’t think can be definitely answered until after the test server goes live....

i feel the are very important to PVE because of the potential for abuse.... 

how far into the water does the Island’s boundary go ?.... if only to the waters edge then island owner cannot delete pillars or even buildings blocking ships/shipyards....

second and most important I feel is, if a island changes ownership, will the new owner have a window of time to clean up existing structures he does not like?.... if that is so, the your base will never truly be safe.....

like I said, I don’t think these questions can be answered yet but I do want them to be on peoples mind so they can be tested when test server goes live....

[[GP] Guybrush Threepwood 626]

No they can't be answered until the PTR goes live, however with the ownership changes, the Devs have always stated the 12 hour or so window is from placement of structure not claim flag, therefore i'd be surprised if the window re-opens each time the island is re-claimed.

The boundaries one, no idea how it will work. I'd be surprised if it was still circle based because the bigger the island is the bigger the circle and that could be huge, so i'm thinking it may actually be land only and not covering water. I'm sure people will definitely be testing that out.

[Daemon Cross 225]

Like the others have stated, according to what patch notes and Captains Log we were able to decipher information from, larger companies ( more members) will have more points, each island will have a point cost but they are trying to make so a solo player can still be the owner of a small island and larger companies can own a large island or a few islands but there will be a hard cap.

  As stated you will need a tax bank to claim the island, only one claim per island and anyone can build there but the landowners will have a limited window to demolish any structures they choose to demolish.  Any materials gathered from that island will be taxed and those mats will go to the upkeep of the claim flag, you will also have structures that you need to upkeep as well. Ships will require you to render them in order to keep them from decaying and there has been no word on being able to build at sea.

[Zadira 45]

So the way we think it works now,

Joe sails to an island that is uninhabited.  He sets down a bank and at that point, the whole entire island belongs to Joe. 

Sally comes along and can't find anywhere else to build so decides to build on Joe's island.  Anything Sally builds can be demolished by Joe?  

It is in Joe's favor to leave Sally alone and allow her to build because he will make money on everything she does but what happens if Joe wakes up in a bad mood one day?

Most of Sally's home, animals and pens have surpassed the demolish timer but some things are newly built, including the big mega gate at the pen entrance. Joe takes his big giant hammer and demolishes that gate allowing tigers and cobras to kill every animal that Sally has tamed. 

Could that possibly happen?

I really hope the PTR can clear up a lot of this for us. Right now, I am not thinking that they have actually thought this out. 

After playing Ark for so long, I have so many negative scenarios running through my head on how this could all go wrong.   I just hope we don't actually know how it will work and they have figured out a much better way for us to play Atlas.

[Rising 20]

I have a question about how the system will work to maintain a flag.

As has been said in the posts before will it be necessary for the bank that will be responsible for storing the resources to keep its flag on a island correct ? To what extent do I know the bank currently only stores other people's items through fees?
In theory to down a flag and stole a island of a solo player for example just no one collect anything on their land and wait for the flag to decay or are solo players are relying or dependent on other random people collecting on their territory to keep their flags?

This would no longer be a problem for medium or large companies.

I hope the resources used to hold the flags are taken from a resource box where I can store those resources myself.

[Martyn 246]

Close.

Joe places a tax bank, then a claim flag.  It takes 1-2 hours to claim the island.  Joe sets a tax of 10%.

Salty lands, builds 2 buildings a living area and a pen.  The pen is in an area Joe intended to build in.

Due to the 12 hour demo rule, Joe could demo all of Saltys buildings, or could demo only the pen, build in that area himself.  Once 12 hours passes, Joes other buildings will be safe.  So long as they were all built at the same time.  Any further buildings Salty places will be subject to the 12 hour demo rule.

Salty logs in, see's his pen has been knocked down, starts to gather wood, stone, metal etc 10% of every hit will goto the tax bank.  Salty builds his pen elsewhere, joe doesn't demo it, 12 hours later it is safe.

I can't find any reference to how far into the sea the claim area actually goes.  Or how far the island is judged to be, I guess we'll find this out in the ptr and after wipe/1.5

Joe and Salty live happily ever after.

Joe is also responsible for upkeep of the settlement, which will be a per period (4 weekly maybe) charge required by the game.  If Joe is unable to pay the upkeep, his claim flag is either demo'd automatically or maybe can be in turn claimed by another player.  I can't find any info on what happens if upkeep isn't paid.

I'd assume claiming flags would be similar to the pvp design, if upkeep isn't paid.  The interesting question is, if you claim the flag, do you then get the tax bank or would you need to try to place your own tax bank first, then claim the flag...

Oh and a Company is something a solo player can create.  They don't automatically become a company on character creation.  Once a player has created a company, they can invite other players to join it, by running upto them and using the pinwheel as per ark and pre ptr atlas.  As same, an invited player accepts using the pinwheel on the inviter/owner.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Martyn

[Martyn 246]

2 hours ago, Salty Jack said:

second and most important I feel is, if a island changes ownership, will the new owner have a window of time to clean up existing structures he does not like?.... if that is so, the your base will never truly be safe.....

I expect, that if ownership changes the new owner will not be able to demo any buildings.  Except those placed from that moment on as per 12 hour rule.

However, any buildings belonging to the original owner, will probably auto demo after the normal maintenance period ends.  Depending on autorepair conditions etc.

[Gomez Addams 278]

 So the owner of the island is like a housing association in a nice suburban area. Joe sets the building code for everyone on Joe’s island.  You better hope that everything you build meets Joe’s exacting standards and color scheme otherwise it’s rubble. I will never even try to build where another player (whom I don’t know) can decide what I can and can’t construct in a survival game that I purchased. There is zero fun in Sally getting his/her gates demolished because Joe doesn’t like purple and pink.  

[ButtPirate 50]

don't think PVE is getting the new claim system. Pretty sure its gonna be the way it is now.

[microphobe 72]

pve is currently getting the colonies claim system as in 1 flag per island. They may change at will though.

50 minutes ago, ButtPirate said:

don't think PVE is getting the new claim system. Pretty sure its gonna be the way it is now.

 

[Sleepinator2000 87]

I predict that latecomers will need to practice placing claim query signs, with "We plan to build a small base between here and the other three signs, cool?"

If the signs survive the timer they can start spending resources with at least a bit of confidence. If they don't, move on.

I would never risk blowing out a full build project if I couldn't at least get a reading on whether the island owner was a patron or jackhole through some means.

[ButtPirate 50]

I don't recall them saying PVE was gonna have the new claim system.

[[GP] Guybrush Threepwood 626]

4 hours ago, ButtPirate said:

I don't recall them saying PVE was gonna have the new claim system.

Then take the time to read all the Captain's Logs like the rest of us. They've said it for weeks.

[Martyn 246]

12 hours ago, Gomez Addams said:

 So the owner of the island is like a housing association in a nice suburban area. Joe sets the building code for everyone on Joe’s island.  You better hope that everything you build meets Joe’s exacting standards and color scheme otherwise it’s rubble. I will never even try to build where another player (whom I don’t know) can decide what I can and can’t construct in a survival game that I purchased. There is zero fun in Sally getting his/her gates demolished because Joe doesn’t like purple and pink.  

Paint them after the 12 hour time period is over and noone can demo them. 

If the settlement owner is responsible, they'll likely talk to everyone on the island, work out a mini alliance for everyone to be in, get everyone to build in their own areas, if someone, there's usually at least one player/company who starts spamming, they'll deal with that individual.  If that's your idea of playing on a pve server.. maybe you should goto the pvp servers instead.  Pve is for social people, no spam allowed.  Or random builds.. or you just get in everyones way.  Mp games are to play together, not for a bunch of single players trying to play their own single player game.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Martyn

[Daemon Cross 225]

10 hours ago, ButtPirate said:

I don't recall them saying PVE was gonna have the new claim system.

With the Mega March update, the claim systems on PvE will change from being lawless-esque servers to the following:

Use the same claim system as PvP, but remove the raidable hours and war aspect. This means that players will be able to claim islands, and anyone can build on those settlements. Each settlement will have an upkeep cost which is based on a variety of factors such as the islands ranking, the number of settlements that company has, and how many different companies are building on the settlement. Settlement owners will be able to set a tax rate, and also players will be able to place their player run shops on the claimed land.

However, we are planning some PvE specific changes

• We’ll be imposing a hard limit of Claim Points equivalent to one small island for single players. 
• Companies will be able to own multiple settlements, but there will be a hard limit (lower than PvP) and it will be based on Island Points and the number of players who are currently in that company. This means that larger companies will have access to more ‘Claim Points’ and are therefore able to settle on more islands with higher rankings, however, we will still be imposing a relatively low cap.
• Company alliances will no longer be enabled on PvE servers. We understand that there are some legitimate use cases, however, in this sandbox environment, we believe they will primarily be used to game the system and get past company rules/limitations. We recognize that this mayimpact how trading communication takes place on PvE servers and we are looking into an alternative option for players.

[Winter Thorne 696]

14 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

 

• Company alliances will no longer be enabled on PvE servers. We understand that there are some legitimate use cases, however, in this sandbox environment, we believe they will primarily be used to game the system and get past company rules/limitations. We recognize that this mayimpact how trading communication takes place on PvE servers and we are looking into an alternative option for players.

They rolled that back yesterday.  Alliances on pve are back!  

[Gomez Addams 278]

1 hour ago, Martyn said:

Paint them after the 12 hour time period is over and noone can demo them. 

If the settlement owner is responsible, they'll likely talk to everyone...

What if the owner of the island does not speak the same language? From my experiences so far, this is very likely. I use translator apps but it’s still difficult to communicate the nuances of intention. I do like the idea of painting after the time limit is up though. I really just hope that whatever is changed, it improves all our gameplay.

[Daemon Cross 225]

If you go back and re-read it looks like they have contradicted a lot of previous statements.

[Martyn 246]

Their intentions may have been revised, that is not contradiction, but updating of information.  

24 minutes ago, Gomez Addams said:

What if the owner of the island does not speak the same language? From my experiences so far, this is very likely. I use translator apps but it’s still difficult to communicate the nuances of intention. I do like the idea of painting after the time limit is up though. I really just hope that whatever is changed, it improves all our gameplay.

If the owner doesn't speak your language.. that's life.. there are many reasons why someone might be antisocial.. it could be natural xenophobia.. they might actually be afraid of other cultures.. could be a superiority complex or narcissim or a need to just be an arse.  This will happen from time to time in many online games, you just deal with those situations as you see fit, either try to commuicate or leave and let someone else try to deal with them.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Martyn

[gnihar 111]

17 hours ago, Zadira said:

So the way we think it works now,

Joe sails to an island that is uninhabited.  He sets down a bank and at that point, the whole entire island belongs to Joe. 

Sally comes along and can't find anywhere else to build so decides to build on Joe's island.  Anything Sally builds can be demolished by Joe?  

It is in Joe's favor to leave Sally alone and allow her to build because he will make money on everything she does but what happens if Joe wakes up in a bad mood one day?

Most of Sally's home, animals and pens have surpassed the demolish timer but some things are newly built, including the big mega gate at the pen entrance. Joe takes his big giant hammer and demolishes that gate allowing tigers and cobras to kill every animal that Sally has tamed. 

Could that possibly happen?

I really hope the PTR can clear up a lot of this for us. Right now, I am not thinking that they have actually thought this out. 

After playing Ark for so long, I have so many negative scenarios running through my head on how this could all go wrong.   I just hope we don't actually know how it will work and they have figured out a much better way for us to play Atlas.

Yes, this is the trap of the new claim system. You are at the mercy of a lord.

That is why lawless sound so apealing to me; there is bigger risk involved in dealing with claim than just build on lawless. Provided it will be sustainable to do so.

[Zadira 45]

We won't be able to really test out pve during the PTR.  It will not show what happens when island owners leave after a month or two months or six months.  We won't be able to test those things out. 

What does happen after an island owner decides not to play any more? 

What happens to those poor people who find out about the game in six months and come in game and they are unable to find an island that is not populated?  Being able to 'own' an entire island is not a good idea at all. We really should only be able to own a small claimable piece of an island, not the whole thing.

 

[Salty Jack 56]

We can test that in a weeks time if 3 companies work together....

one company busts ass and gets tax bank claiming island....

second company just builds....

after second company’s structures survive the 12 plus hour demolish limit, first company abandons flag claim....

third company claims island....

at that point we will be able to see effect of ownership change with second company....

[Zadira 45]

Well, so much for the theory of pve being able to be tested on the PTR.  This is a statement from Dollie on Discord.

DollieToday at 6:58 PM We haven't stated that all three modes will be on this PTR. I'm not sure where that started haha

 

 

In response to what is being tested. Almost 100% it's going to be colonies only on the PTR....no Empires or PVE