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Daemon Cross

I need help understanding

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 I need help understanding why people jump at the chance to say “ This is early access you should expect wipes “ or “ you are basically testing the game for the developers”

 

    

 

Early Access Game

Get instant access and start playing; get involved with this game as it develops.

Note: This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development. Learn more

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why Early Access?

“ATLAS is one of the most ambitious online worlds of all time and while everything we have listed in the feature section will be there around Early Access launch, we are going to need the feedback, insight, and creativity of the game players to build on that foundation and balance the game optimally over a period of time.”

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?

“ATLAS will be an Early Access title for approximately 2 years.”

How is the full version planned to differ from the Early Access version?

“ATLAS is going to better balanced, and have even more content and features than the initial game driven by player feedback and whatever direction players desire to see the game evolve in.”

What is the current state of the Early Access version?

“Everything in the features section will be there around Early Access Launch and the game will be an unparalleled massively multiplayer experience from Day One.”

Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access?

“ATLAS will increase in price when the game is fully launched.”

How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?

“We'll be taking feedback from players across multiple social platforms, conducting livestreams, open-forums and hosting events where we can meet players in person and gather their feedback.”

 

 

ABOUT THIS GAME

From the creators of ARK: Survival Evolved comes ATLAS - a massively multiplayer first-and-third-person fantasy pirate adventure. ATLAS will host up to 40,000 players exploring the same Globe simultaneously, with an unprecedented scale of cooperation and conflict! Stake your claim in this endless open world as you conquer territory, construct ships, search for buried treasure, assemble forts, plunder settlements and hire crew to join your powerful growing armada. Start small then expand your spheres of influence from a small island, up to an unstoppable pirate empire that spans across the oceans. Wage battle against enemy fleets as you singlehandedly command large ships of war using the captaining system (or divide up to the responsibilities among your trusted lieutenants), or take control of any weapon directly with your own character. Dive deep into the briny water to explore permanent sunken wrecks and recover salvage, unearth the loot from procedurally-generated Treasure Maps and challenge zones, or complete challenging main questlines. Team up with other aspiring adventurers and sail into the vast ocean to discover new lands rich with region-specific elements, tame exotic natural and mythical creatures, raid forgotten tombs, confront powerful ancient gods and even build and administer your own colonies, cities, and civilizations to dominate the ATLAS in this ultimate quest for fortune and glory!

MMO On the Grandest Scale

Physically sail in real-time across the vast oceans with the proprietary server network technology. Explorers will voyage to over 700 unique landmasses across 45,000 square kilometers, with thousands of Discovery Zones, and ten distinct world regions each having their own unique resources, creatures, secrets, and environment hazards! There is a separate PvE ATLAS for players who don't wish to play any PVP.  

Construct the Ship of Your Dreams, Plank by Plank!

Build drydocks and start with a dinghy rowboat, basic raft, tiny sloop or nimble schooner, moving on up to your own versatile brigantine or titanic galleon capable of transporting hundreds of crew and extensive cargo. Name your ship in big bold letters, paint and copy your own pirate flag and custom-place all the pieces of your ship -- which sails and where, planks and gunports, every single structure piece has a physical Weight and Material -- to function exactly how you want.

Captain your Crew!

Recruit real players and AI crew from freeports or rescue seasoned crew from destroyed “Army of the Damned” shipwrecks to man distinct stations on your boat! Set sail and explore the ATLAS with them to gain experience and level up their stats or gear, as well as levelling your Ship. Your crew are versatile! Whether on land, or ship, or even riding behind your animal companions on emplacements, they can man weapons of all kinds-- cannons, swivel guns, siege engines, turrets, and even gigantic mortars, many with dynamically swappable ammo types including grapeshot, chainshot, spikeshot, liquid fire, and more! Instruct them to board enemy ships and help you conquer the seas! Keep their stomachs full and their pockets full of gold lest you want a mutiny in your hands! Take on the Captain’s Wheel or divide up the command responsibilities via Lieutenant Podiums to direct the Ship’s assignable weapon systems, sails, and stations, including standing-orders or manual grouped fire. Or, walk up to any station and take control of it yourself!

Pirate PVP to the Limit

Everything is up for grabs including player’s ships, their crew, their pets, their forts, their land, and their booty. If you can get your hands on it, you can take it. A ship’s permanent logbook tells the tale of their legendary travel, exploits and ownership. 

Be the Hero or Villain you were meant to be

MMO-scale character progression systems include, at launch, over 15 Disciplines with over 300 Skills, in a vast unlockable tree. New "Feat" system allows for active and passive bindable character abilities, while new stat-buff system allows innumerable abstract statistics to be modified by Skills, Items, and Armor. And now, everything has scalable stats, including structures, and can be progressively Upgraded!

This is Who You Are

Extensive character visual customization enables an endless range of realistic (and not-so-realistic) characters, with a vast array of sliders, morphs, muscle tones, and tweakable values. You can even per-pixel design your own permanent tattoos (and then draw warpaint on top of that too!). If someone exists in the real world, they should be creatable in ATLAS! Best-in-class dynamic hair growth and real-time aging systems allow you to get old and... pass on your legacy? (Or find a fountain of youth!).

Endless Adventure

Full Quest and Waypoint systems, with sub-quests and rewards, for major goals -- while procedural treasure maps and challenge zones also ensure there's always something new to find out over the horizon. 

Intense Action 

Tactical melee combat systems with blocks, parries, dodges, character motion, optional shields, stunning and strength-varying strikes, directional attacks, and more for use in either first or third person perspectives. Fists, swords, maces, blackjacks, daggers, and much more give you tremendous options to pick the right weapon for the job. Meanwhile, period-appropriate-weaponry with skill-based active reload systems include flintlock pistols, muskets, blunderbuss, and more -- just be sure to keep your powder dry!

Claim What's Yours 

Form a company, claim territory and apply taxation and behavior rules to that which you own: be a benevolent governor, a feudal lord, or a ruthless dictator. Territory ownership is visualized on your dynamic zoomable World Map, with Fog of War obscuring uncharted regions and Shroud of War hiding enemy territories out of sight range. Contest other government's ownership of land, structures, or ships to expand your empire! The top large-scale Spheres of Influence on the Official ATLAS' are visualized in real-time on the PlayATLAS homepage. Design your own custom flag per-pixel to apply to your claims, to be famous (or infamous)!

Creatures Great and Small 

More than 50 creatures at launch varying from breedable utilitarian farm animals & shoulder mounted parrots and monkeys that offer unique buffs, all the way to magical mermaids and gigantic sea monsters of legend. Creatures can be found in their logical regions, but take skill and tactics to tame using new mechanics, while also gaining the most benefit and fertility from their natural biomes. Ferry these temperamental creatures across the vast oceans in a virtual Noah's Ark to trade in exotic locales.

Freeports to Meet & Greet

Level-capped starter zones allow you to learn the ropes and meet new players in a safe space before you venture out into the great unknown. Where the wind and destiny takes you beyond that, is up to the gods!

Build Your Empire 

Overhauled building systems include automatic foundational elevation adjustment, dynamic tile type swapping, improved snap detection & previewing, integrated plumbing systems, per-pixel-paintable everything, beast-of-burden harness attachments for field-gun and carriages, and much more! Survival systems newly include, among other aspects, Vitamins benefits and deficiencies, with recipe & cooking skills and varying ingredient qualities.

Powerful Mod and Server Functionalities 

Want to build a World War II Spitfire? Or a Flying Fortress bomber with fully walkable interior and gun stations, carrying troops loaded with machine guns and rocket launchers? How about a Tank? An Aircraft Carrier to play out the Battle of Midway on an expansive scale? How about an Arcadian Steampunk Airship floating through a cloud-world? These examples and much more are provided with the ATLAS Dev Kit, where you can make effectively create whatever large-scale MMO action game you want to see happen, all supported by the database-driven network technology that powers ATLAS. Unofficial ATLAS' can be of any size and configuration, while a visual map tool lets server hosts layout their own complete custom world of islands, continents, terrain features, spawns, resources, hazards, underwater zones, dynamic weather, biome configurations, ecology, and an infinite number of other configurable features -- all dynamically streamed to the client during gameplay. The possibilities are endless!

Far, Far More

Stay tuned for more details on the extensive features and content of ATLAS. This brief sampling is just the tip of the iceberg (though be sure to watch out for those in the polar regions, as they're extremely dangerous to ship hulls!!).

A Brief History of ATLAS

Long-ago, far above the watery world of ATLAS there once existed a magic-powered “Golden Age”-- where great Empires of the Sky lived at peace alongside magical creatures, flourishing upon floating continents above the clouds, all powered by a magical source of energy known as the Heart of the Goddess, granted by the powerful beings who dwell in the stars beyond. However, a powerful warlord known as Xevos sought to unite the human civilizations over the magickind, and launched a war that broke the Heart into pieces, unleashing a wave of destruction that shattered the floating landmasses and plunged them into the waters below. 

Many generations later, as living memory of the “Sundering” has faded into legend and the once-plentiful magical energy has long since dissipated, descendants of the protectors of the Heart of the Goddess -- known as “Pathfinders” -- emerge from their provincial oceanic lives to explore the new continents and islands, and seek out the power they may yet contain. Across the vast new world they’ll encounter hostile creatures, technological remnants of the Golden Age past, and ultimately the undying spirit of Xevos himself and his soulless “Army of the Damned”, still intent on recovering the pieces of the Heart of the Goddess to raise the continents once again under his vision.

If the latest generation of Pathfinders can outwit and outgun Xevos and his legions, and recover the Heart pieces for themselves, they will be faced with the very same choice: whether to attempt to restore the old world, or build a new better one…

 
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Posted (edited)

 Now I’m not looking for a flame war, please just a simple this is stated here and that is what it means will do. I can read and I’ve also seen where it says the developers are looking for our feedback but what I am not seeing is where everyone comes off saying that it should be expected in early access games.

    Everyone is so quick to judge someone for buying a early access game then complaining they are losing their progress. If by reading that above statement from the developers if you’d never dealt with early access games before would you automatically think there would be wipes ?

  Please I’m just looking for a knowledgeable response, I’m not looking for a DannyUK response.

Edited by Daemon Cross
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Because we're effectively privileged to be able to play & test the game before it's official and released as a full commercial product.  As a gratuity, we got it at a discounted price, compared to full whack.

But we have to take the bumps as well.  Wipes, clean slates, testing new features and functions and providing feedback is what it's all about.

I think some people forget this, and expect a perfectly polished player experience...  It is what it is at the end of the day.  Some things are hellishly annoying, other things are rather fun...  it's up to the players to work WITH the developers to steer the game in a direction that conforms to the spirit of the game conceived out of a passion for a pirate game with the Ark engine.

People will hate, people will love.   The developers need to maintain their thick skin and bounce off those that do happen to love the concept of Atlas.  Which is why I'll seldom be hostile and toxic to a bunch of guys (and girls) pouring their souls into something they hope we will come to love.

Plugged this enough...  time for a rather large coffee now  😉

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Posted (edited)

I bought 4 copies on launch day for my family because I knew what a chaotic mess this would be. Anyone can see the way PC games have been released lately with the ‘patch it and fix it later’ attitude and early access is getting earlier and earlier. That being said, after gaming for 40 years, this has been one of my top ten experiences. I am one of the people who enjoy the process more than the end result. The fact that the game isn’t finished and is constantly changing makes it fun, to me and my group. We have played more since the wipe announcement than before because we love the uncertainty and decay. I realize I’m in the minority but all games end eventually and playing for the moment and enjoying the experience is really the only thing that matters. There is nothing to win except that.

Edited by Gomez Addams
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I kind of agree with everybody on the thread.  :classic_biggrin:

You never know what you're getting into with EA and alphas, and sometimes it can be a wild ride to launch day.  I'd rather they didn't wipe, but it's not completely unexpected to me.  I just use the time to goof off a bit, not worry about "progressing", and just try some of the stuff I haven't done yet.  There's a lot of that, because I'm slow.  I don't like to chew up the content all in the first few months.

But Daemon has a point about what people expect, especially new people.  A lot of posters here act like everyone's played ARK or Eve, or has done EA or alpha before, but many haven't.  And when those guys read what the devs said, they might imagine a lot of changes, but not server wipes.

I think the big problem with THIS wipe is that they're not doing it to bring in something the players are excited to see.  If you wipe to get rid of notorious hackers and all their stuff, people see some benefit.  Or if you wipe to make changes everybody wants, it's ok.  This isn't that.  If the changes are as bad as some of us think, it could mean another wipe just to undo them, and that would really suck.  Then the next arguments will pro wipe for better design, or anti-design because of wiping.  It will have been avoidable.

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Thank you all for being honest and sincere, that is all I was looking for and it shows that you are good people and the reason why I enjoy the game.

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Well it should be clear now to everyone that Atlas will wipe during early access. 

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Posted (edited)

I fully expected wipes, for the most part. I admit a bit of uncertainty due to the MMO tag.  

I started Conan Exiles a month or so into EA and played through almost the entirety of it's EA.  Took a break and came back right at release, what a huge difference in that game!

We had wipe after wipe after wipe, I'm pretty numb to wipes now.

The player base here, now, reminds me of the player base of Conan during EA. "Game is dead"  "devs suck"  "you're killing your game", etc., etc.

Well that game is not dead and this one won't die either.

 

No, it does not explicitly state to expect wipes.  I suppose with my Conan experience,  I did and felt everyone should have. But, I can see that someone new to this type experience could have different expectations. 

Edited by 8ball
To address the OP's question
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

 Now I’m not looking for a flame war, please just a simple this is stated here and that is what it means will do. I can read and I’ve also seen where it says the developers are looking for our feedback but what I am not seeing is where everyone comes off saying that it should be expected in early access games.

    Everyone is so quick to judge someone for buying a early access game then complaining they are losing their progress. If by reading that above statement from the developers if you’d never dealt with early access games before would you automatically think there would be wipes ?

  Please I’m just looking for a knowledgeable response, I’m not looking for a DannyUK response.

I played Ark when it was early access, and they never wiped. No, I would NOT automatically expect a wipe. Not at all. But while I don't like the thought of losing all of our progress in Atlas, the wipe isn't, for me, what I'm so mad about. Its the fact that the devs said they wanted our feedback, then they do the opposite of what we all said would fix a problem. THAT... is why I'm so mad. The wipe I can deal with, even if I don't really like it. 

*EDIT*  Would like to add, I get why a wipe is necessary. There really is a need for it if the pve claim system is going to drastically change, not to mention all of the pillar/foundation spam across lawless. Its HOW the pve claim system is changing. THAT crap is just wrong on soo many levels. Its going to leave a whole lot of room for overlords making near-slaves out of those who build on 'their island'. And the whole boxing in/gating ships/pillar and foundation spamming will continue, believe it or not. 

Edited by Sansa Phoenix
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7 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

what I'm so mad about. Its the fact that the devs said they wanted our feedback, then they do the opposite of what we all said would fix a problem

I think then it's up to the community to prove it doesn't work and why.  The only lemon sucking will come if it works better than expected after doomsayers prophesied the end of all things animate and inanimate.

If it doesn't work and the community raises good points, it allows the idea to have been, and will no longer be..   the next idea in line will be tried.  My only grit faced snarl will come if it doesn't work, it's proven to not work with demonstrable evidence, an acknowledgement it doesn't work, and the devs release it anyway....  that would kick the goat off the mountainside for me  😉

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1 minute ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

I played Ark when it was early access, and they never wiped. No, I would NOT automatically expect a wipe. Not at all. But while I don't like the thought of losing all of our progress in Atlas, the wipe isn't, for me, what I'm so mad about. Its the fact that the devs said they wanted our feedback, then they do the opposite of what we all said would fix a problem. THAT... is why I'm so mad. The wipe I can deal with, even if I don't really like it.  

I think I understand the way you feel.
But the "we all" doesn't exist. You never know what the majority thinks or feels unless you ask the majority. We can't know if the outcry on the forums was, is or will be the majority. But the devs can! They have all the data, all the feedback.

The second thing I would like to invite you to think about is that we as players have a different perspective about a game than a dev. It is all about our personal experience and if you feel that something is wrong or bad it is perfectly justified because our feelings and emotions determine our experience. BUT this does not necessarily leads to the right solution. A game is a very complex system of interconnected pieces. And there are professional people designing this experience. You have to take EVERY aspect of the game into consideration that might be affected by a change. The famous "Just limit our claim flags" for example sounds simple and reasonable. But it is only the most obvious solution. That doesn't mean it's the right solution. And that's where the difference between a player and a developer is. We give feedback, we say "this is shit". But the reason why this is shit rarely the first thing that comes to our mind.

Just be patient and trust the professionals who make a living with game development. If making games would be easy.... everyone would do it.

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3 minutes ago, Kappinski said:

I think I understand the way you feel.
But the "we all" doesn't exist. You never know what the majority thinks or feels unless you ask the majority. We can't know if the outcry on the forums was, is or will be the majority. But the devs can! They have all the data, all the feedback.

The second thing I would like to invite you to think about is that we as players have a different perspective about a game than a dev. It is all about our personal experience and if you feel that something is wrong or bad it is perfectly justified because our feelings and emotions determine our experience. BUT this does not necessarily leads to the right solution. A game is a very complex system of interconnected pieces. And there are professional people designing this experience. You have to take EVERY aspect of the game into consideration that might be affected by a change. The famous "Just limit our claim flags" for example sounds simple and reasonable. But it is only the most obvious solution. That doesn't mean it's the right solution. And that's where the difference between a player and a developer is. We give feedback, we say "this is shit". But the reason why this is shit rarely the first thing that comes to our mind.

Just be patient and trust the professionals who make a living with game development. If making games would be easy.... everyone would do it.

Here is my problem with what you said: Our experience in the game IS WHAT MATTERS. WE are the ones who play it, WE are the ones buying it, WE are the ones who make or break the game in the end and the developers hold the power to sway that either way. How is it a good idea to have one tribe own an entire island and leave others to be forced to pay taxes to them just to have a place to build? That might be ok in PvP, but in PvE? This is a sticking point for a LOT of people, who seem to have resigned themselves to being a tenant or stop playing Atlas alltogether. 

What you said may sound reasonable to your ears, and indeed to some others, but in reality, what the devs are doing with the claim system won't work. I truly hope that when they release the PTRs, we all get on there and show them just how bad of an idea their new claim system will be. Its the only way to show them, but I also fear, as much as some of us have seen the way they cater to PvP and care so little about PvE, it won't matter even if we prove it doesn't work. Even if they see the passive-aggressive way people can PvP in a PvE server using loopholes and such, I think they'll be ok with that. Ark PvE is proof of that. What it means, when it comes down to it, is Grapeshot and Wildcard don't actually have PvE servers at all. They have outright PvP, and then they have 'mild' PvP. True PvE wouldn't leave room for anyone to use any passive-aggressive means to run companies or people off of 'their' land, nor grief them by boxing their base in, gating their ships in, or pillar/foundation spamming their area so they can't expand. The 'upkeep' won't deter larger companies. They'll have the manpower to harvest the resources necessary to do it. 

To be clear, I'm not trying to be a doomsayer or negative. I'm a realist. While not everyone will act like this or be this way, there will be enough people who WILL to ruin people's 'experiences' in Atlas, and the devs just don't seem to care. 

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27 minutes ago, Vorxius said:

  that would kick the goat off the mountainside for me  😉

I'm stealing that phrase.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

Here is my problem with what you said: Our experience in the game IS WHAT MATTERS. WE are the ones who play it, WE are the ones buying it, WE are the ones who make or break the game in the end and the developers hold the power to sway that either way.

Your right, but like the other poster stated ...

8 hours ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

The second thing I would like to invite you to think about is that we as players have a different perspective about a game than a dev

WE are the ones playing the game and WE are the ones buying it ... but WE only see one very small portion of the full game.  We are looking at the sky from the bottom of the well so to speak, there is a lot more to the game then any one person's play style.  I'm betting even the forums only cover maybe 5% of the actual player-base. So there is no guarantee that the people that post on the forums make up every aspect of the game or are proportionally ratio'd for even a single aspect, so suggestions and posts are often times skewed to one play-style's perspective.

EDIT: I just realized that for some reason the Quote section listed "Sansa" for both phrases instead of Kappinski for the second one.  Silly forums...

Edited by CoopedUp
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So we have three theories of what's happening at this point.

1.  The devs ARE listening to the players, but there is an enormous group of players out there somewhere who want something different than what the players in the forums are saying.  We in the forums are the minority and the rest of the players all want this new system.

2.  The devs are engaging in 11th dimensional chess.  They know nobody likes this interim design step they are putting in, but there is some fabulous overall system on the drawing board, which when implemented, will make this all make sense.

3.  The devs aren't really listening to enough of the players, and have not used any logic or tried to foresee the problems in the new game design, and are just throwing ideas out there to see if something sticks.

************************************************************************************************************************************************

1.  This could be at least partly true.  A few of the leaders of mega tribes have commented that they have had sitdown discussions with the devs and been asked for their opinions about the design.  The design does look like something the megas would want - lots of control over the land.  They may also be focusing on the pvp players.

2.  Pffft.

3.  Probably.    Or thinking they have a handle on it because of #1, will be very surprised when nobody but the megas likes it.

 

You know what would really help the whole situation?  If they tried communicating the reasons behind they're doing, what they think the benefits might be, what problems they expect and how they plan to fix them.    Or one time, instead of sitting down with the megas or shooting the breeze in discord, they had an open forum thread ...heavily moderated for a few  hours for posting questions/responses and getting some opinions and ideas.

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I’ve often thought about the same thing, I can’t understand why having a thread in the forums is so hard for them, there is a pvp section, pve section and general section that they could post new ideas coming about and for each play style and let us give our feedback on what we think.

   They have often said they prefer discord because it is more directly based communication between them and the players but the issue is that some of us can’t be online to have a chitchat on a topic that needs to be discussed.

   At least here they could post and go do some work and check back to catch up on what people have said and respond accordingly.   Just makes more sense to me.

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I Expected a few wipes during EA just because the claim System Kind if forces a wipe when changed dramaticly imo. What i also understand is that the devs got a Basic idea about what they Want to create And some xomplaints about  key Elements of this creativity is the claim System And the taxation of Other Players Which i personally like. So. Its not always good to do what the Community wants if it would Change the idea of what Kind of Game You Want to create. As developing Games is some  Kind of art imo i would adjust but not overthrow a Basic Concept of my Art 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/26/2019 at 11:18 AM, Daemon Cross said:

 Now I’m not looking for a flame war, please just a simple this is stated here and that is what it means will do. I can read and I’ve also seen where it says the developers are looking for our feedback but what I am not seeing is where everyone comes off saying that it should be expected in early access games.

    Everyone is so quick to judge someone for buying a early access game then complaining they are losing their progress. If by reading that above statement from the developers if you’d never dealt with early access games before would you automatically think there would be wipes ?

  Please I’m just looking for a knowledgeable response, I’m not looking for a DannyUK response.

From my experience: Which is to say, since the dawn of computers. (Commodore 64 and Amiga generation)

Wipes I don't expect, except under extreme circumstances.  Or due to map changes, which make it impossible for partial or full wipes not to happen.  It is however, imo, necessary, that to test a new "patch" one should wipe anyway.  Even if it isn't the server that wipes, how do you test the lower level stuff and give feedback if you never experience it after a specific patch goes through? You can't.  You must reset yourself and play from being a noob again, in order to experience it, in the case where you only have 1 life.  If you can save game, ie a single player game.  Then you can do both.

Testing an EA for Devs.. well that's exactly what we are doing.  You haven't paid for a completed game, in the sense that what you're playing right now, isn't complete.  You have actually paid for the completed game, you just can't play that game for x number of years.  In the meantime, they add gameplay systems, textures, items, tools etc into the game and we give our feedback on how it's working along with any bugs we find.  Also, we learn how developers develope games.  Depending alot on how much of the actual dev side of the game the developers will show us.

Edited by Martyn

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4 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

They have often said they prefer discord because it is more directly based communication between them and the players but the issue is that some of us can’t be online to have a chitchat on a topic that needs to be discussed.

Ever seen a discord with 10-50 people in it? It's chat chaos.. now imagine one with 2000 in it.. or 20,000 people all trying to talk at once.. even in slowmo mode it's still chaos. Discord is fine if they are talking to very small groups, otherwise they might as well use twitter.  Or any other system.

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1 hour ago, Martyn said:

Ever seen a discord with 10-50 people in it? It's chat chaos.. now imagine one with 2000 in it.. or 20,000 people all trying to talk at once.. even in slowmo mode it's still chaos. Discord is fine if they are talking to very small groups, otherwise they might as well use twitter.  Or any other system.

I don't think the goal is communications.  If it was, they'd choose a method where the most people could participate, and they could pay attention to what people were saying.  I think discord dev appearances fall more under the category of PR.

Livestreams and discord provide opportunities to "be seen and heard", not to see and hear.  Twitter is mainly one way as well.

Back in the early days of gaming big producers and devs were real celebrities in the gaming community.  Now...not so much, although I'm sure there are still a lot of players interested in being present for a grand appearance.  But that's not communication.  That requires thoughts and responses from all the participants.  Right now we've got the occasional thought coming from the devs, with many shouted responses to it, with almost nothing being returned after that.

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I think there is a lot of entitlement going on - the idea that people pay, automatically means they get what they want. As long as MMO's have been around- I alph'ed UO btw and played games before that even - there has always been a difference of opinion on what should be expected, what needs to be done and what works best and that is on both sides of the table - Devs and Player.

Part of the problem is we can not all agree. So the Dev's have to make a decision based on what is good for the game as well as what is profitable for their title. EA games are a way to discover that route, as well as gain some funding for continued development. I think as long as people remember that this is also a business and we - the players - have no idea what they have in mind for the future nor the costs associated with achieving that goal - we can learn to accept their decisions a little easier. Go with the flow.

Will Dev's always do what is right? NOPE! We have seen mistakes in the past that have cost them their titles. But as long as we all give positive, constructive feedback - and weed out the useless trolling, whining and crying - we can hope they listen.

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I think there may be a bit of bouble-bluff going on.

Back home in the real world, local authorities wanted to put a new airport in on some derelict land, the local residence up in arms took to the streets, campaign of anger and the whole proposal fell flat on its face.  The authorities turned around and said ok fair enough, we wont build there.  The residence cheered, and celebrated their victory.  The next thing we heard was that airport plans were approved to be built upon old marshland / nature reserve further up the road...  This caused an absolute uproar, 100x that of the original plan... everyone got involved this time, environmental agencies, green peace, we had friends of the earth, local Councillors...   Basically the earth stopped revolving...   The authorities started moving the bulldozers and tractors in, earth movers and the lot... the crowds and riots were unprecedented.   At the very last moment, the authority said, look ok ok ok.....  we hear you, but we have no choice the airport has to go ahead.  In the middle of the crowd, a little voice chimed in "think I prefer the original plan"..  and as more and more voices chimed in 'here here, here here'... the authorities switched off the engines, and openly asked..  this site or the original?  It's your choice, not ours.

The Airport was built on the original derelict land without protest. ....someone in the local council was heard to say " see told you it would work"....  There's a moral there somewhere lol.

Maybe that's what's happening with Atlas..  Players hated the original plan.  Players HATE the new plan even more!  Given the choice, players probably prefer the original plan lol.

Not sure it's exactly the same but near enough for me!  I like telling that story anyway... so thanks for reading 😄😄

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Piratess said:

I think there is a lot of entitlement going on - the idea that people pay, automatically means they get what they want.

I don't think people in this thread feel entitled to anything.  However, the devs have said they want to develop the game with our feedback, so we've been giving them our feedback.  They've given no indication they've heard it or care about it, which is a bit silly.  Yet, they continue to ask for it, so here we are.

 

32 minutes ago, Piratess said:

 So the Dev's have to make a decision based on what is good for the game as well as what is profitable for their title. EA games are a way to discover that route, as well as gain some funding for continued development. I think as long as people remember that this is also a business and we - the players - have no idea what they have in mind for the future nor the costs associated with achieving that goal - we can learn to accept their decisions a little easier. Go with the flow.

That's a bit condescending, and a little off the mark.  It requires a profound grasp of the obvious to know this is a business.  We are the customers after all.  They are free to develop the game in whatever way they think will make them money.  We are being free to tell them what they need to do to keep our business.  That's generally how it works.  

The last bit of that statement subscribes to the 2nd theory of game development - 11th dimensional chess.  We have no idea what they have in store so just trust them, continue to be a customer and accept their decisions and go with the flow.

In the end you seem to be telling people who are trying to provide feedback to sit down, shut up, and stop 

32 minutes ago, Piratess said:

trolling, whining and crying 

 

I don't doubt that parts of this comment are very appropriate for some of the other discussions I've seen on this forum, but I'm puzzled as to why they're being made here where people are reasonably discussing problems they see with the game.  In the context of this thread it reads like, "Stop being unhappy with the game and be quiet."

Edited by Winter Thorne

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1 minute ago, Winter Thorne said:

 

In the end you seem to be telling people who are trying to provide feedback to sit down, shut up, and stop 

AND

I don't doubt that parts of this comment are very appropriate for some of the other discussions I've seen on this forum, but I'm puzzled as to why they're being made here where people are reasonably discussing problems they see with the game.  In the context of this thread it reads like, "Stop being unhappy with the game and be quiet."

 

Well you are entitled ( no pun intended ) to your opinion. It is interesting how you perceive me being condescending, yet your post is based purely off assumption and is nothing but condescending. I suggest you re read my post - and try to smile while doing so. It might make for a better day for you.

 

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