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Daemon Cross

I need help understanding

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Piratess said:

 

Well you are entitled ( no pun intended ) to your opinion. It is interesting how you perceive me being condescending, yet your post is based purely off assumption and is nothing but condescending. I suggest you re read my post - and try to smile while doing so. It might make for a better day for you.

 

As an older woman, I've been told all my life to "smile".  That's not a phrase destined to win friends and influence people.

My post is based on not only what you said, but where you said it - in a thread where people are calmly and intelligently discussing issues with the game.  You walked into this thread and said 

there's a lot of entitlement going on

explained to all of us that this is a business

told us the developers know best and we should accept their decisions (rather than giving rational feedback as is happening in this thread)

called people trolls and whiners

What did you expect the response to be?  I did not "perceive" you to be condescending, it just was.

I don't need to reread your post and smile to have a better day.  I'm already having a very good day.  But I do have a suggestion for you.  If you think this thread is full of trolls, whiners, entitled people, and people who don't understand Grapeshot is a business, go have a look at this one, and try telling them the same things you told us - 

 

Edited by Winter Thorne

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Although I agree with the money making aspect of game making, there is a great deal of artwork and creativity that is happening also. I am sure that part of the reason when things seem like they make zero sense it is because there is someone on the other side trying something new and different just because they want to. That’s what brings some creative people joy. I know I try to almost daily do something new and different because I would go insane if I couldn’t think and act outside of the box. This of course can be a risky way to run a business but if you manage to pull off a new type of game mechanic that most everyone loves, you’ll be considered an innovator and pioneer. More importantly, people will continue to pay you to be creative. I like to think that is what’s happening behind the curtains.

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Most of the people in these forums have been here almost since the beginning of the game, we’ve built a little community with everyone who post here and I’ve really enjoyed the opinions of most everyone, you can tell who the good people are and who is here to troll.

   Thank you for your time and effort.

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I would just really like to see them hurry this whole PTR and MEGA WIPE thing along already.. The wait is killing me..

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Posted (edited)

Yep.  And smiling makes you feel happy.  So everyone should smile.

 

Esp when reading these forums.  No that's a grimace..

Edited by Martyn

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6 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

In the end you seem to be telling people who are trying to provide feedback to sit down, shut up, and stop 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I think the biggest problem isn't that people provide feedback.  It's that they aren't providing the feedback constructively and the forums seem to feel more like a small percentage of people that want to scream their own negative opinions about an idea 600 times, and another 300 times on top of that when the first 600 results in a change but not the one that they wanted.

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8 hours ago, CoopedUp said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I think the biggest problem isn't that people provide feedback.  It's that they aren't providing the feedback constructively and the forums seem to feel more like a small percentage of people that want to scream their own negative opinions about an idea 600 times, and another 300 times on top of that when the first 600 results in a change but not the one that they wanted.

Yeah, that's true.  But with nothing to do in the game , people tend to hang out here gabbing, so I guess that's gonna happen.  This has been one of the best threads though, with everybody being very reasonable, kicking around their ideas, no trolling..etc.  I've enjoyed reading it and seeing other people's ideas about some of this stuff.  When you look at some of the other threads on the boards right now...cripes..why would someone pick THIS one to come in and complain about the conversation and try to shut it down?  It's too bad, really.

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Does EA means u can"t stick to a schedule? I cant even understand why they put a day on something. EVERY SINGLE announcement was delayed. Remember when the submarine was the February update? And the lack of transparency and informations from both developpers and community managers is silly. They pretend to listen to the community, but we got nothing but chimera. If this is what early access, we might not have the same definition, and this is obviously not the definition they sold us. 
I fully expected wipes & all the bug we faced. I didnt expect those false timer and the worst schedule of all time. The game is suffering from that. Nothing else.  

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man.. not gonna lie, just reading that OP gets me excited for atlas again.. lol.

Just drop the 1.5 already. 

My soul yearns for it.

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I could never understand why the announcement of the wipe or the delay of patches or the wipe would cause someone to quit playing or take a break until after the wipe, several of us from different companies have continued to play just like we were before the announcement or delays happened. Those that say they will be back after the wipe and those that stopped playing in the beginning because they couldn’t find any land just baffles me.

   To my understanding there is going to be  more wipes and the land system unless your a island owner will be the same as lawless. So what has changed ? 

  Those who have stopped playing because of the wipe announcement, I’m curious to know if you’ll stop again at the next announcement?

  Those who stopped playing because you couldn’t own your own claim and didn’t want to live on lawless, well if your not able to own your own island this go around will you stop again ?

   I’m just trying to understand your way of thinking, I’m not pointing fingers or bashing anyone or making any suggestions as to whether you should come back or not. I would just like to know your thinking on all of this. I really hope you do come back and continue to play with the rest of us.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Daemon Cross said:

I could never understand why the announcement of the wipe or the delay of patches or the wipe would cause someone to quit playing or take a break until after the wipe, several of us from different companies have continued to play just like we were before the announcement or delays happened. Those that say they will be back after the wipe and those that stopped playing in the beginning because they couldn’t find any land just baffles me.

   To my understanding there is going to be  more wipes and the land system unless your a island owner will be the same as lawless. So what has changed ? 

  Those who have stopped playing because of the wipe announcement, I’m curious to know if you’ll stop again at the next announcement?

  Those who stopped playing because you couldn’t own your own claim and didn’t want to live on lawless, well if your not able to own your own island this go around will you stop again ?

   I’m just trying to understand your way of thinking, I’m not pointing fingers or bashing anyone or making any suggestions as to whether you should come back or not. I would just like to know your thinking on all of this. I really hope you do come back and continue to play with the rest of us.

i stopped playing because the playerbase died out. my enjoyment was the player interactions.. politics, combat, random encounters. the ride or die thrills. there isnt much of that anymore. I mean let's face it, there isn't much content in the game other than that right now... there is very little pve content to keep me on that i havent already done over and over having already played almost 700 hours. Large playerbase is key

Edited by Enki Anunnaki

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Early Access UO was the actual Beta and it was far worse than this....the wipe is needed the land management was implemented wrong. And after patching it just made it worse. So a wipe will be needed now.  Not that big a deal just go blow crap up and learn tactics while you have this massive bonus...

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On 3/26/2019 at 8:00 AM, Sansa Phoenix said:

I played Ark when it was early access, and they never wiped. No, I would NOT automatically expect a wipe. Not at all. But while I don't like the thought of losing all of our progress in Atlas, the wipe isn't, for me, what I'm so mad about. Its the fact that the devs said they wanted our feedback, then they do the opposite of what we all said would fix a problem. THAT... is why I'm so mad. The wipe I can deal with, even if I don't really like it. 

*EDIT*  Would like to add, I get why a wipe is necessary. There really is a need for it if the pve claim system is going to drastically change, not to mention all of the pillar/foundation spam across lawless. Its HOW the pve claim system is changing. THAT crap is just wrong on soo many levels. Its going to leave a whole lot of room for overlords making near-slaves out of those who build on 'their island'. And the whole boxing in/gating ships/pillar and foundation spamming will continue, believe it or not. 

But ark did wipe when they did the great migration remember that?  So it was wiped, and add in all the bugs in the game was nuts they should of wiped with all the loses all the time lol

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21 hours ago, Luxfere said:

But ark did wipe when they did the great migration remember that?  So it was wiped, and add in all the bugs in the game was nuts they should of wiped with all the loses all the time lol

No, a wipe occurs when they wipe a server with all of your stuff on it. They gave everyone a chance to move off of the server and save their tames/stuff before they did it. Not the same. 

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On 3/26/2019 at 5:20 PM, CoopedUp said:

Your right, but like the other poster stated ...

WE are the ones playing the game and WE are the ones buying it ... but WE only see one very small portion of the full game.  We are looking at the sky from the bottom of the well so to speak, there is a lot more to the game then any one person's play style.  I'm betting even the forums only cover maybe 5% of the actual player-base. So there is no guarantee that the people that post on the forums make up every aspect of the game or are proportionally ratio'd for even a single aspect, so suggestions and posts are often times skewed to one play-style's perspective.

EDIT: I just realized that for some reason the Quote section listed "Sansa" for both phrases instead of Kappinski for the second one.  Silly forums...

Not that I'm some expert, because I'm not.. at ALL...I have been in the dev kit for Ark, and I've an ark map about half way done, so I at least have a good idea that what I'm about to say is accurate.

A game designers job is to make an environment that the players will want to continue playing. Not what THEY would play according to whats easy for them or what they think... because most of them I'm sure don't even play their own game. Not as just a regular player like we do. Even if they tried, they have a very biased opinion because they coded it. No, the REAL opinions they should be going on are ours. The actual player of their game. 

Its easy to sit back and say "well we just don't know what they're going through..." and "they could have huge plans we'll all just love in the end.."... I used to defend them too. I used to be one of the first ones to give them the benefit of the doubt. After all of this though, not the wipe but the way the HAVEN'T listened to us about the claiming system, I just can't make excuses for them any longer. There comes a point in time when you have to step back and take a larger look at things, and I did. And what I see is a dev team that only hears 'we want a change to [insert thing to be changed here]' and thats all. They didn't hear us say HOW. Or they didn't care. To me, it looks as if they enjoy creating conflict even on a PvE server. 

They need someone to oversee their PvE side, who has PLAYED PvE, and who KNOWS how PvE should be. Not someone who only really likes PvP, because then all they do for anything outside of PvP will still be flavored with conflict, or the potential for it. 

They are knowingly creating passive-aggressive PvP in a PvE environment by leaving ways open for asshats to come in and be... well.... asshats. 

 

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I've participated in probably about 40 early access launches.  So far, this is the first one that did not explicitly state there would be progression wipes in their terms.  That's my only complaint, if they'd said it in the terms it would be a very different story. 

Not all EA games wipe.  That's why those that do put it in their terms.

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1 hour ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

fter all of this though, not the wipe but the way the HAVEN'T listened to us about the claiming system, I just can't make excuses for them any longer.

I've listened.  I've read forum post after forum post since I started playing this game 3 days after launch.  I've read COUNTLESS posts about ass-hats that built on rare resource points, walled off chunks of the islands, took over a neighboring plot and over-lapped half of another persons claim, and the ENTIRE time the people posting couldn't do anything to the offender at all.  And not only that, they were FORCED to endure it because if they de-claimed their one little spot they were completely screwed and would probably never find another open spot to build again.

Then came the announcement that they were looking at fixing these issues and that a wipe was necessary.  They proposed a system where EVERYONE can build ANYWHERE, but that all the islands would have a moderator with limited power but was also dependent on his tenants.  And instead of reading and digesting that the players are no longer shackled to a claim flag, can now move around and build freely, AND can impact whether a Company can even maintain control of an island.  A small percentage of people seemed to have stopped reading at the "the landowner can destroy any structure built on the island" and immediately bombarded the forums with complaints that you want your shackles back.

I think everyone has digital Stockholm Syndrome or something and is afraid to be given their freedom.  I mean did everyone forget all the problems that the original claim flags had?  There was no simple fix for them, the foundation was crumbling and the system needed to be removed completely and re-worked.

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Posted (edited)

With what your saying , correct me of I’m wrong, in the beginning people were forced to endure overlapping claim flags, foundation spam, not finding anywhere to build on a claim of their own and all they had was lawless. 

Now we have a system that allows companies to  push people not in the company off their island, those companies that allow people to build, the players will pretty much be living in lawless but with a person who can demolish your structures if they do choose to do so.

   You say you’ve read the complaints and see the topics throughout the forums and you only mention that there is no simple fix.

   What happened to all the post that suggested limited claim flags to 1 - 3 per account total to be used all across the map. Once your 3 claims was used you’d have to demolish one of them if you wished to place another claim down ?

  What happened to all the post that suggested removing overlapping claim flags ?

   There has been a ton of simple fixes that could have been implemented but they choose to go with a king and servant system.  One person owns the land and everyone else who gathers resources off his island pays a tax that keeps the claim system in place.  So in other words, if I was to own the island and once I got the tax bank in place I could pretty much quit the game for awhile because the people gathering resources will help keep my claim flag upkeep met.  Does that sound about right ?

    I would rather live on my ship then under someone else.  As far as I’m concerned, I’ll build my ship on lawless and once that’s done I’ll be done with the land issues. If my ship gets sunk I’ll just rebuild and I hope others will do the same so the landowners can farm their own materials day in and day out.  Let’s see how long it last when all they can do is farm mats.

  I hope the requirements are so high that a company would have to have 4 people with tames dedicated to do nothing but farming mats.

Edited by Daemon Cross
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7 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

  I would rather live on my ship then under someone else.

Exactly. 

Granted, the owning company only has the first 12 hours someone builds on their island to demolish, but then after that, make no mistake, if they miss the demo window they can simply box you in, gate your ships in, all that. 

Having to live under someone else's thumb is NOT 'freedom'. Its king/serf, and I'm no serf. That is NOT why I bought this game. I bought this game to be queen of my own castle, not pay (literally) for someone else's.

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7 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

With what your saying , correct me of I’m wrong, in the beginning people were forced to endure overlapping claim flags, foundation spam, not finding anywhere to build on a claim of their own and all they had was lawless. 

Now we have a system that allows companies to  push people not in the company off their island, those companies that allow people to build, the players will pretty much be living in lawless but with a person who can demolish your structures if they do choose to do so.

   You say you’ve read the complaints and see the topics throughout the forums and you only mention that there is no simple fix.

   What happened to all the post that suggested limited claim flags to 1 - 3 per account total to be used all across the map. Once your 3 claims was used you’d have to demolish one of them if you wished to place another claim down ?

  What happened to all the post that suggested removing overlapping claim flags ?

   There has been a ton of simple fixes that could have been implemented but they choose to go with a king and servant system.  One person owns the land and everyone else who gathers resources off his island pays a tax that keeps the claim system in place.  So in other words, if I was to own the island and once I got the tax bank in place I could pretty much quit the game for awhile because the people gathering resources will help keep my claim flag upkeep met.  Does that sound about right ?

    I would rather live on my ship then under someone else.  As far as I’m concerned, I’ll build my ship on lawless and once that’s done I’ll be done with the land issues. If my ship gets sunk I’ll just rebuild and I hope others will do the same so the landowners can farm their own materials day in and day out.  Let’s see how long it last when all they can do is farm mats.

  I hope the requirements are so high that a company would have to have 4 people with tames dedicated to do nothing but farming mats.

You seem to be focusing on the negative side of the changes, rather than on the positive.  Realistically, both arguments are right.  Some people will use the new rules to try to bully people, others will take responsiblity and try to protect people.  The new system per se is a good improvement, but it can still be exploited.  So it will need further improvements in due course.

18 minutes ago, Sansa Phoenix said:

Exactly. 

Granted, the owning company only has the first 12 hours someone builds on their island to demolish, but then after that, make no mistake, if they miss the demo window they can simply box you in, gate your ships in, all that. 

Having to live under someone else's thumb is NOT 'freedom'. Its king/serf, and I'm no serf. That is NOT why I bought this game. I bought this game to be queen of my own castle, not pay (literally) for someone else's.

You're also focusing on the negative side of what people could do and not the positive. The problem with both of you is you.  Not the new systems.

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Martyn, please explain the positives to the new system to me since it seems you suggest that I’m only pointing out the negative.

   What is different with the new claim system then living on lawless? I know the land owner will have a limited window to demolish your structures, that has been stated already, so do I have to ask permission to build whatever I want and as large as I want ?  If a member of his company likes the nice flat area I’ve started building on, should I relinquish it to him in order for me to remain on the island  ?  If myself and my neighbor both wish to build in the same area, will the landowner decide who is permitted to build and under what basis is his decision based off of ?

   You state that there will be bullying and there will be good landowners as well, am I correct ?

   Let me ask you this and perhaps you’ll know the meaning behind it ... have you ever heard the expression “ What is normal for the spider 🕷 is chaos for the fly “

     Your dreaming of either being the landowner and everyone bragging about how fair and just you are or your dreaming of living under someone else and they granting your every wish. I’m not sure where your seeing positives about the new system but I’m really curious to see what you have to say. Perhaps my foresight with the new system has clouded my sight and I’m not able to see the benefits of the new system.

You are saying there will be land for everyone, there was always land to build on but most people wanted their own claim, what has changed?

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2 hours ago, Martyn said:

You seem to be focusing on the negative side of the changes, rather than on the positive.  Realistically, both arguments are right.  Some people will use the new rules to try to bully people, others will take responsiblity and try to protect people.  The new system per se is a good improvement, but it can still be exploited.  So it will need further improvements in due course.

You're also focusing on the negative side of what people could do and not the positive. The problem with both of you is you.  Not the new systems.

It's not a matter of what you focus on, it's a matter of good game design and logic.  You can't leave the player experience, especially the new player experience, up to the whims of the playerbase.   Is there any question that a number of players behave badly?  We have history proving that.  Spamming, griefing, toxic behavior, passive-aggression, there are lots of examples of that in the few short months the EA has been going on.  Even you admit that this goes on.

So why put a system in place that that does not take those things into consideration?  If your job is to ensure that the game has a large playerbase of people having good game experiences, you HAVE to look at that kind of behavior and design a way to prevent it from making your players unhappy.  If there is no design preventing this kind of behavior, and no code of conduct preventing this kind of behavior (with GMs to back that up), why on earth would anyone think they are preventing this kind of behavior when it's already fairly prevalent in the game?  It's not good enough to tell those players being griefed, "Well, look over here, THOSE players are not being griefed.   Isn't that good enough for you?"

If someone took a checkpoint 4 months into this new design and found that only 30% of the players were being griefed, would that make this a good design?

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Daemon Cross said:

Martyn, please explain the positives to the new system to me since it seems you suggest that I’m only pointing out the negative.

   What is different with the new claim system then living on lawless? I know the land owner will have a limited window to demolish your structures, that has been stated already, so do I have to ask permission to build whatever I want and as large as I want ?  If a member of his company likes the nice flat area I’ve started building on, should I relinquish it to him in order for me to remain on the island  ?  If myself and my neighbor both wish to build in the same area, will the landowner decide who is permitted to build and under what basis is his decision based off of ?

   You state that there will be bullying and there will be good landowners as well, am I correct ?

   Let me ask you this and perhaps you’ll know the meaning behind it ... have you ever heard the expression “ What is normal for the spider 🕷 is chaos for the fly “

     Your dreaming of either being the landowner and everyone bragging about how fair and just you are or your dreaming of living under someone else and they granting your every wish. I’m not sure where your seeing positives about the new system but I’m really curious to see what you have to say. Perhaps my foresight with the new system has clouded my sight and I’m not able to see the benefits of the new system.

You are saying there will be land for everyone, there was always land to build on but most people wanted their own claim, what has changed?

I, like you, have no idea either.  It might require a permission thing, landlord selects you, selects building or maybe there's a cooldown period or whatever.. but I suspect, knowing how ark devs worked in the past they'll take the simplest route.. but you're assuming every landlord will treat you this way, they might not, they might talk to you first, explain how they see their area being setup... allowing you a chance to work with them.. until we actually see whats ingame.. there's no way of knowing how something will work out, what the devs say they want it to be, isn't always how it turns up.  It could be great for a few months then broken or vice versa.. We wait n see.  And stay positive.  There's many things in life that could happen, but they mean nothing, until they do happen.

As for negative v positive attitude.. it's just how I read your post.  That you're only seeing the negative in the new system.  Not the positives.  A landowner, if a bigger knowledgable company, might have a better setup, might have extra tames you can use, might have a different idea on how or where to build, they might share that with you or might not.. but it's like you're just assuming that because the system is changing, it's bad and it can only get worse.  That just isn't the case.  There are bullies, hackers, cheats, thieves etc in gaming.. but there's also guardians, police, monitors and moderators, people who have alot of experience and patience, willing to explain, help out, etc.  So don't just hate a system, until you've actually used it at least.

And Spiders eat flies.. a fly wouldn't go near a web if it knew it was there.  Nor a player will stay on a given island, if the landowners are spiders.

Edited by Martyn

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I believe there are malicious people and I also believe there are good people,  I also know that I don’t know what the bigger picture is for the game, I enjoyed having a claim and being able to do what I wanted with that claim and not having to deal with anyone building on top of me.

   With the new system that is coming into place there is to much variety in when someone plays, the chances of being on at the same time as a landowner I’m gonna say is slim  for most people, as far as them being all willing to give you tames to use and suggest building ideas.  I for one enjoy the aspect of building and recreating the original ideas. Just improving on things is a enjoyment for me

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14 hours ago, Martyn said:

I, like you, have no idea either.  It might require a permission thing, landlord selects you, selects building or maybe there's a cooldown period or whatever.. 

What is it you're saying might be a permission thing?  I can't tell what you mean by it.

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